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Adrienne Drell is Interviewed about the Highland Park Shooting; Tensions Flare after Police Shooting of Walker; Gov. Asa Hutchinson is Interviewed about Guns and Abortion. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired July 05, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: In a matter of seconds, everything changed. A gunman opening fire on a July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois. When those shots were done, six people were dead, dozens more wounded, and an entire community this morning terrorized and wondering how this could happen in their town. Witnesses describe the horror of what happened in those moments.

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ZOE PAWELCZAK, SHOOTING WITNESS: It was the loudest thing I've heard that's not, like, natural. It was a loud, po, po, po, po, po. And it was just endless. So I just grabbed my dad and we ran. And suddenly everyone was running behind us. And people were just shot behind us. There was a girl just dead, another man was shot in the ear, blood all over his face. It was just so surreal. It's complete shock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Former Chicago "Sun-Times" reporter Adrienne Drell was also watching the parade when the chaos erupted and joins us now.

Adrienne, thanks for being with us this morning.

Can you just walk us through what you experienced yesterday in those moments? What did you see and also how were you feeling?

ADRIENNE DRELL, ATTENDED HIGHLAND PARK JULY 4TH PARADE: Well, first of all, I'm a former "Sun-Times" reporter, retired.

I was sitting on the curb about half a block from where these shootings actually occurred but didn't know it at the time. I was relaxed and thinking, you know, everybody's been so tense lately and isn't it nice to celebrate our 246th birthday as a country.

And I'm sitting there, and they had the police presence came with the lights blaring and their families waving from cars. Then came all the ambulances and rescue vehicles. And I'm thinking, oh, I hope nobody gets sick or gets hurt because they're all here. And then you had some women on horses. And then some vets. And then

the Highland Park High School marching band, dressed in blue and white. So, the band goes by and they're playing, I think, "Stars and Stripes Forever," and it's very nice. And all of a sudden I see the band members racing toward me to go to the parking lot right behind me, which led to a grocery store. And I'm thinking, oh, that's a funny way to end the parade. Are they going to get free food or something, you know?

And then, all of a sudden, this man, this burly man came up to me and he said, you got to get out of here. And I'm going, what? And he lifts me up. He said, there's a shooter. Get out of here.

So, I joined the group who were racing across the parking lot and a cop comes by with a dog, get out of here, get out of here. Panic in their voice.

And we race. And I live nearby in an apartment building and there were all kinds of people out there, around the lobby, crying, some of them, some of them holding children, and people are saying, what happened, what happened? It completely destroyed the mood of the day, to say the least. And it felt like something was broken. You know, like everybody was stunned, including myself.

And I didn't hear until later somebody said, yes, they heard popping sounds, and it didn't sound like a firecracker. It sounded like a gun.

And the rest of the day was, like, a nightmare. Streets were barricaded. You could see FBI troopers, I guess you'd call them, dressed in green who arrived in a tank walking up -- you could see them across the street in a parking lot with guns, rifles. And it was scary.

HILL: Scary. You talk about a nightmare. I know at one point you also went to visit your husband, who I understand is in an assisted living facility.

DRELL: Yes. Yes.

HILL: The fact that everything was on lockdown, they were also -- there were concerns, right, even just you going to visit him, that was difficult.

DRELL: Yes. And, actually, it's several miles away. And when I got there, they made us go through a different entrance because of the shooting. They wanted to gauge who was coming in.

[09:35:00]

And when I left and when I came back, there were police barricading the streets. They were totally devoid of people and cars. Everyone was told to stay in their house.

And I told the policeman, I live right over there. And he said, OK, go ahead.

HILL: Yes.

DRELL: And everybody -- I talked to one of my neighbors, who had gone to the parade with their quite elderly little Maltese doggy in a buggy, and they were right where the shooting occurred and he heard it and they quickly left. They were very shaken. And they walked back and I said, well, how did the dog -- dogs hate the sounds of guns and fireworks. He said, you forgot, he's deaf. That was as close as I could get to humor.

HILL: Yes.

DRELL: But, you know, it was - people. I talked to one of the vets, who I had recognized from being in the parade, and I said, what happened? What did you know? He said, well, we heard the sound. He said, I thought it was fireworks. But their commander said, that's a rifle, and he identified the kind of rifle. He knew what it was.

HILL: Yes.

DRELL: So, they knew right away it was the real thing.

HILL: It is --

DRELL: But it was a big shock here.

HILL: I'm sure.

DRELL: I mean people --

HILL: Absolutely. A community that's known for being so -- such a safe haven and such a tight knit community.

Adrienne, unfortunately we're out of time, but I do appreciate you taking the time to join us and just to walk us through what those moments were like as we all try to understand that.

Thank you.

DRELL: OK.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Those poor people.

Well, still ahead, tensions still high in Akron, Ohio, after the police shooting of Jayland Walker. He died after sustaining at least 60 gunshot wounds. Why? What officials are crediting for a quieter night of protests there in the wake. That's coming up.

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[09:41:21]

HILL: The city of Akron, Ohio, on edge this morning after the fatal police shooting of Jayland Walker. Walker suffered at least 60 gunshot wounds when he was shot by police last week during a foot chase which followed a traffic stop. SCIUTTO: Now, dozens of demonstrators have been arrested for violating

overnight curfews during protests. However, protests last night overall they remained peaceful.

CNN's Polo Sandoval, he's live in Akron.

Polo, what made a difference overnight with these protests to keep them calm?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It may have been that nightly curfew that was put in place affecting the downtown Akron area. A curfew that is going to be in place indefinitely until we hear otherwise from city officials. And I have to say, too, Jim and Erica, this morning we haven't seen any signs of any protests-related violence here downtown. A sharp contrast when you compare it to what we saw early Monday morning when about a block and a half of store fronts, you could see glass shattered there. So, many of the residents here woke up on the Fourth of July to that sight. Also some vandalized city property, as well as you mentioned a short while ago, roughly 50 arrests, charges for those individuals, again, happening Sunday into Monday. Charges ranging from failure to disperse, to rioting. A combination of individuals both from within the community and from outside.

But we also have to remember that - what we've heard from Jayland Walker's family since that shooting last Monday has been joining city officials for a call for peaceful demonstrations as they continue to get to the bottom of the actions, of the actions of those eight police officers.

People here have certainly been, understandably so, just frustrated and angered after that police body camera video was released over the weekend. And in it you see those eight APD officers open fire, shooting and killing the 25-year-old. Preliminary autopsy results show that as many as 60 gunshot wounds on Walker's body. Though I have heard from both the Walker family and also from police officials here who say that ultimately the medical examiner will have to be the one to determine if that's a combination of entrants and exit wounds.

But ultimately, though, this investigation now in the hands of states investigators. And as the Walker family told me over the weekend, Jim and Erica, they are allowing that investigation to run its course. And they are asking for anybody who does take to the streets before tonight's curfew gets kicked back in to keep those demonstrations peaceful.

Back to you.

HILL: All right, Polo Sandoval with the latest from Akron, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, President Biden signed the bipartisan gun safety bill less than two weeks ago. Could the new law help confront, prevent some of the issues behind this latest mass shooting in Illinois and elsewhere? What else needs to be done? We're going to speak with a Republican governor, Asa Hutchinson, about other potential critical steps and is there support for it.

Stay with us.

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[09:48:37]

SCIUTTO: On a day meant to honor American independence, six people were stripped of the fundamental right to life, killed, while celebrating at a July 4th parade. Dozens more were injured, this after a gunman opened fire with what's described now by as - by authorities as a high-powered rifle. This taking place in Highland Park, Illinois.

This happened just weeks after Congress passed and President Biden signed the first major piece of gun legislation in this country in decades.

Illinois Senator Dick Durbin says in his view more needs to be done.

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SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): We have a great tradition, Fourth of July parades, and another sad, awful, horrible tradition of mass shootings coming together in Highland Park.

It raises a basic question in my mind, what in the hell does America need with this type of weapon that was designed for our military? You don't need it to go hunting or sport shooting. It has no earthly purpose. And there are millions of them, millions of them in America.

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SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss is Governor Asa Hutchinson. He's the Republican governor of Arkansas.

Governor, we appreciate you taking the time this morning.

GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): Well, thank you. It's good to be with you on a tragic day and reflecting on what happened yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

One of the most powerful points of this story, having covered so many of them before, shootings like this, is just the sound and the power of the weapon.

I want to play a brief clip here, and for our viewers, if you haven't seen this, a warning that it's disturbing to hear.

[09:50:04]

But I want to get your reaction to it.

Have a listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: As you hear that, Governor, and you heard Senator Duckworth describe how she's heard that kind of thing before but in war zones, should a weapon which fires that many rounds with that force and that velocity in that short a period of time be legal in this country?

HUTCHINSON: Whenever -- we need to get more facts in terms of what type of gun it was. I understand that it was a high-powered rifle. But let's get the facts on that. Listening to it, if it's a semi- automatic, it means that each one has to pull the trigger. And there's not an automatic fire. Let's make sure that the facts are there and that's the case

I don't think that when you're looking at semi-automatic weapons, that that is something that is lawful now. And as I understand it, this firearm was lawfully acquired. And that you've got very tough laws there in this part of Illinois. And so I think you've got to look at the planning that was put into place here, what can we do better to prevent and detect the trail of the planned events such as this.

SCIUTTO: You know that state laws, a weakness with them, right, is that you can go across the border. I mean I speak to cops in New York and they say that the trouble they have there, right, is people can buy them down I-95 and then come into the city and use them.

And as you know, there has been national legislation that has dealt with semi-automatic weapons. If you go back to the assault weapons ban, that was passed with bipartisan support. It passed Supreme Court muster. It led to a drop in deaths from mass shootings and it did ban some of the weapons we've seen so often for a period of time, like the AR-15 or Kalashnikov rifles.

Why not take another go at that given the frequency with which we've seen those weapons add to the death toll here? That's what the doctors say. You heard a doctor say early in our broadcast that the victims here were blown up by the gunshot wounds because of the force of the weapon used.

HUTCHINSON: You know, there's two important things that we have to agree upon to address. One is that, let's do things that make a difference. And here again, if you had passed the strictest laws possible, it likely would not have made a difference to this instance. Saying, as you point out, the criminals are always going to have access to that.

Secondly, we have -- we just came together on a bipartisan bill, because we came together and reached common ground, that has to be the approach as well. And so let's let this bipartisan bill go into effect. It's going to help us in the states address mental health issues. And that's what we see here are -- this is a planned attack. But it's someone who appears to have had mental issues. What can we do better to make sure that those people do not have access to the firearms? And that is something I think we can all agree upon.

SCIUTTO: The experts, though, you speak to psychiatrists, the American Psychiatric Association, they know that most acts of violent crime are not committed by people with diagnosable mental illnesses. It creates a question, you know, what qualifies you as mentally ill, right? Is it just being an angry teenager? I just wonder, when you speak about areas of agreement, can there not

be agreement that weapons are a factor in this, the power of those weapons, the speed with which they can fire rounds?

HUTCHINSON: Well, they are factors and it governs your response. It sometimes limits your response. You have to wait until they're recharging the weapon, reloading the weapon. And so, sure, those are all factors that come into play. You also have the Second Amendment that is at issue here, and you mentioned the ban against assault-style weapons. Well, California passed that. It was struck down as unconstitutional.

And so there's not a simplistic approach here. You've got the question of, how do you keep guns out of the hands of bad people, people that are intent to harm, convicted felons. We've got to make sure that process works well. The bipartisan bill should be helpful for the states to address those issues, as well as the mental health challenges.

SCIUTTO: I do want to ask you about abortion. Arkansas, one of five states where bans on abortion are now in place following the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade. The only exception in your state, as you know well, is to save the life of the mother. And you, granted, you're uneasy about there being no exception for rape or incest. You do say you followed the will of the people. Would you be willing to consider legislation that changes that?

[09:55:04]

Do you think the Republican Party should be willing to consider legislation that changes that?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I think that's going to be a continued debate within the party and nationally. And experience is going to dictate how that is responded to by state legislators. And so right now the exemptions in Arkansas are only on the life of the mother. Last year, in Arkansas, we had approximately 3,000 abortions. A very small percent of those were rape or incest cases. The vast majority are those that did not have any of those exceptions to apply. And so we're going to be saving a number -- thousands of lives of unborn children through the steps that have been taken.

The debate on that small minority, important minority of cases involving rape, incest, life of the mother, life of the mother is protected, the others will continue to be reviewed based upon the experience that we have in the coming years.

SCIUTTO: Governor Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas, thanks so much for joining the broadcast this morning.

HUTCHINSON: Good to be with you today. Thank you.

HILL: Still to come, we're going to speak with the mayor of Highland Park, Illinois. She says she knew the suspect when he was just a child, a Cub Scout. She'll join us live, next.

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