Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Google Taking Steps in Wake of Supreme Court Abortion Decision; Highland Park Mass Shooting Investigation. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 05, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Just heroes.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And what struck me about that is that they said they had thought through what they would do in a scenario like this, because that is the state of where we are.

JACKIE KUCINICH, THE DAILY BEAST: Because that's where we are, yes, parents having to have a plan of action just in case.

FOX: Yes.

KING: Parents having to have a plan of action just in case.

Appreciate your time today on INSIDE POLITICS.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for being with us.

The details are stunning, police just revealing more information on the deadly mass shooting at a parade in Highland Park, Illinois. Investigators say this attack was preplanned for weeks, and that the suspected shooter dressed in women's clothing to conceal his identity, and he fled this scene right along with a very crowd he fired at.

Here's what else we know. Six people are dead. Dozens of others were injured in the hail of bullets that we now know came from a legally purchase high-powered rifle. Today, doctors who ran to treat the victims on scene tell CNN about the horrifying moments that followed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. LOREN SCHECHTER, TREATED VICTIMS ON SITE: There were several people who were obviously deceased.

There was a gentleman who I believe I have heard since has succumbed. He had a gunshot to his abdomen. The EMTs were holding pressure. We started an I.V. I went across the street. There was another woman who had a gunshot to her chest. They were trying to mask ventilate her. She was deceased.

DR. DAVID BAUM, WITNESS: The people who were gone were blown up by that gunfire.

QUESTION: Blown up.

BAUM: Blown up. Blown up. The horrific scene of some of the bodies is unspeakable for the average person. Those are wartime injuries. Those are those are what are seen in victims of war, not victims at a parade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The Highland Park mayor says she expects charges to be levied later today against the suspect, as investigators work to uncover more about him and what led to this deadly day.

Some of those details, a disturbing digital trail and a legally bought firearm.

CNN's Josh Campbell was at this press conference and joins us now.

Josh, tell us what stood out to you from all the new information we just learned.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, we just learned a lot from authorities about the moments before, during and after that fatal mass shooting at that July 4 celebration here yesterday.

One thing we learned was that this was well-planned in advance, authorities saying that the suspect in this case planned for weeks to conduct this attack, going on top of the roof along this parade route in a sniper nest position firing down on the crowd.

We're also learning that the suspect tried to conceal himself by dressing in women's clothing, according to police. Now we know, based on the photograph of the suspect, that he has a facial tattoos, that obviously very recognizable, but the chief here saying that they went -- he went so far as to dress in women's clothing so that he could then blend in and out of that crowd.

And in the aftermath, one question we had was, how did authorities take this person into custody? Authorities say that it was an alert citizen who saw the information that the police were pushing out, that we in the media were pushing out to the public, and saw the suspect's vehicle, called 9/11. A cruiser that was in the area saw that suspect, conducted a traffic

stop. He was taken into custody without incident. We're also learning about the type of weaponry that was used here in this attack. It will surprise none of us, hearing those gunshots on that video, hearing the number of rounds that were fired, this was an AR-15-style rifle, according to the deputy chief, this, of course, the same type of weapon system that we have seen used in so many different attacks.

Finally, I asked the deputy chief whether or not the suspect is cooperating. He said that he is answering questions. Authorities would not indicate any more than that about what he is actually telling the police. But as far as the motivation, that investigation remains ongoing, we're told. I know, talking to law enforcement sources, the suspect had a very robust digital footprint, some very troubling posts, including one in which he resembles an animated character conducting an attack. So, obviously that is key to their investigation as they try to get to the motive. But that is where we are right now.

We're learning a lot about this investigation. We're also told that we should hear more about potential charges later this afternoon, Ana.

CABRERA: Josh Campbell, you're doing a great job. I know you're going to continue to work your sources. Thank you for that reporting.

Let's talk more about the disturbing digital trail that Josh just referenced, as investigators are now digging into that.

CNN's Tom Foreman is joining us.

Tom, what have police found?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What they have found so for, Ana, is that if somebody had been looking in the right place, there were a lot of signs out there that maybe something was coming here.

Apparently, he posted dozens of posts on various as digital sources, including videos on YouTube which showed violent imagery, music, ominous messages out there. He did it under the pseudonym Awake the Rapper. In one video called "Are You Awake?" he had an animated stick figure that appeared to be attacking people in tactical gear.

[13:05:17]

In another one, he had a figure like this collapsed in a pool of blood with police standing all around, but, again, dozens of these out there sending some signal that at least he was thinking about a lot of violent imagery, a lot of violent conflicts out there.

The only question now, as seems to arise in many of these cases where people post things online, who was looking at it, before all of this was shut down by police in the wake of the shooting, Ana?

CABRERA: And, Tom, is this the case that could have triggered any kind of red flag law allowing this person's weapons to be removed?

FOREMAN: I think that goes, Ana, to the very question we're talking about. Who saw it and who would have reacted to it in some fashion?

Think about what red flag laws say out there, what the rules are, basically. What you have to have is people who are willing to say that they see an immediate threat to this person or to others that would allow law enforcement to remove guns from that person.

A court would have to issue that order. And, of course, the subject can have the guns returned if they can prove over time, basically, that they are not that threat. Unless somebody was looking at this, saying we think this is a sign that this young man is an imminent threat, and there was something else to support it, it seems a little unlikely red flag laws would have worked here, because, remember, the uncle of this young man has said that he saw no sign of anything going wrong, he was just a quiet kid, nothing out there.

Very often, red flag laws are triggered by very overt measures, somebody saying I'm going to kill you to the neighbor, threatening them with a gun, waving it around. That's often what law enforcement is looking for in a case like this. Here, again, the question is, who knew about it? Did anybody know about it? And did they take it seriously enough that they should have warned law enforcement ahead of time?

CABRERA: And, again, two rifles found.

FOREMAN: Two.

CABRERA: One believed to be used in the attack, another found in the vehicle after they found the suspect.

Thank you, Tom Foreman.

Joining us now, Casey Jordan. She's a criminologist, a behavioral analyst and an attorney. And also with us, Jeff Lanza. He's a former FBI special agent.

Thank you both for being here.

Jeff, first, what questions do you have now after listening to that press conference, based on everything we have learned in just the last half-hour?

JEFF LANZA, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Right.

Well, what your correspondent just said, it's important to know who had access to that information, who may have seen his postings online, if that was reported to any law enforcement. That would be important to know. The FBI, of course, doesn't do mass scraping of that information to try to target people for investigations.

But if it was reported and it was looked into, maybe this could have been prevented. But that's an important part of the investigation to see who had access to that. As Tom just said, who saw that information and what could have been done with it at that time.

CABRERA: Casey, police say this suspect wore women's clothing, had been planning this, they believe, for weeks, might have even been wearing a wig, wanted to conceal his identity, they believe.

And they say he tried to escape by blending in with the crowd. Your reaction to that?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: I think what we learned today was that the amount of planning that went into this, this explains why they're saying it was intentional, but random at the same time.

What they're saying is, there was planning involved. The most disturbing of his social media posts, this kind of music video, it was posted eight months ago, but nobody was watching it. I mean, when I found it yesterday, there were just a handful of comments.

If you wanted to even try to invoke a red flag law, it would have had to happen eight months ago. When things just sit there, you have to ask yourself when to -- and we don't know the answer to this -- when did this young man get these two guns, these two rifles, one in the car, one left on the rooftop?

If you can reconstruct the trajectory you, can find when the fantasy to commit homicide began to evolve by the procurement of a weapon. The motivation, they're saying, we don't know what it is. But the idea that he were a disguise shows he planned to get away.

The real question is, what was his anticipated gain? Was it psychological? Did he want to terrorize us? Did he want to make a statement, American, anti-American? That's what they're interviewing this young man with -- for right now to try to get those answers.

The more we can find out about what his anticipated gain was, the more we can try to isolate those variables that would prevent this in the future.

CABRERA: And, Jeff, according to police, we now know the suspect fired at least 70 rounds into that crowd from a high-powered rifle. They said it's similar to an AR-15.

What would you need to do that, to fire 70 rounds in such a short amount of time?

[13:10:02]

LANZA: Well, you probably, of course, would need some training with the weapon or practice with the weapon, which we don't know if that's happened yet.

But in the short amount of time, you can definitely get off that amount of rounds, if you're familiar with the weapon, have practiced with it. And it wouldn't be that hard to get off that number of rounds without being detected immediately in that in that period of time.

CABRERA: Casey, you just can't ignore again, this suspect in this case, another young man, 21 years old. What do you make of that?

JORDAN: I think when we found out yesterday, before we knew who the suspect was, that it was a young man, they were thinking 18 to 22, we could have guessed exactly how the profile turned out. It would have been dead on.

He lived in the area. He felt isolated, alienated, just like we saw with the 18-year-old at the Tops grocery store, the 18-, 19-, 20-year- old we see it Uvalde.

We have a culture that doesn't just love guns, but we have an entire population of disenfranchised, alienated youth. I took the time to watch some of his postings, his videos, and really I saw a tremendous amount of pain. It's not that he doesn't feel anything. It's that he feels so much pain. And don't think I feel sorry for him. But the anxiety, the resignation, the anomie, the feeling of normlessness that was pervasive in his life, that is what we should have been paying attention to.

But once a kid is over 18 and out of high school and not living with his parents, the real question is, how would we have ever identified him if nobody's watching his social media posts?

CABRERA: Jeff, I know, in your career, you specialized in interviews and interrogation. It's not every time that you have a suspected mass shooter who is taken into custody still alive.

As investigators are approaching interviewing this suspect, what would you be doing?

LANZA: Well, law enforcement in general, not just the FBI, but the police department -- this is really a local case -- but they would be trying to figure out the motivation and what led him down that path, first of all, if anyone else was involved, if he had any influence from any other people.

That would be extremely important to know. And the fact that he's cooperating is very helpful in that regard. But also what was his planning? When did he get the guns? How did he get the guns? And then what practice did he have? All of those things are -- will be crucial pieces to fill in the puzzle that the law enforcement is trying to solve right now.

CABRERA: All right. Well, I appreciate both of you. Thank you for lending your expertise, your insights into this such disturbing and traumatic, terrifying situation. I appreciate you, Casey Jordan and Jeff Lanza.

And we're going to stay on top of this breaking news.

Still ahead. We will speak with the rabbi who had an encounter with this suspected gunman just a few months ago. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:17]

CABRERA: Right now, a suspect is in custody and the nation is in mourning after a shooter unleashed on a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois.

Today, abandoned cars, strollers, and those tiny American flags that children were waving still littered the street after people fled in fear. Six people are dead, more than 30 others shot, we have learned. And police say an announcement on charges could come this afternoon.

My next guest had an encounter with the suspected gunman a few months ago and is joining us now, Rabbi Yosef Schanowitz, whose synagogue is located very close to the site of this shooting. Rabbi, first of all, thank you for taking the time. And I'm so sorry to meet you under these circumstances. Tell us about this interaction that you had with the suspect a few months ago. What happened?

RABBI YOSEF SCHANOWITZ, ENCOUNTERED SUSPECT IN APRIL: Well, I apologize, but I was directed by the authorities, because the investigation is impending, not to talk about this item at the moment.

CABRERA: OK. I can respect that part because we don't want to hinder the investigation in any way whatsoever.

But given that you had had this encounter, without giving us the details about that, I do wonder, what was your reaction? What went through your mind when you realized who the suspect was, and having seen him recently?

SCHANOWITZ: Well, all I will say is that, with -- along with many other houses of worship, we do have security all the time, off-duty police, armed.

We also have people who are at the service who are -- who have -- who are trained and have -- carry a license. That's all I will say. I apologize.

CABRERA: Your synagogue is a couple of blocks from where this shooting took place. So where were you when the rampage started? What did you see and hear?

SCHANOWITZ: I was in the office. And I received a call.

I was in the office working. And I received a call. The synagogue is on the parade route. It's on -- it's right there. And I received a call saying the parade has been canceled. And the person did not elaborate. And, immediately, I ran out for four young high school students who I felt responsible for, both to the school and to the -- and to their parents.

[13:20:06]

They were manning a table, a table displaying Judaica. And I just wanted to make sure that they were safe along with -- by the time I got out there, I believe most the majority of people had already escaped. It didn't take too long.

And I was able to get these four young men into the synagogue.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Well, I'm so happy to hear that they were OK.

SCHANOWITZ: Yes, immediately, we notified parents.

CABRERA: OK.

And you later then went to the emergency room, where we are just told now there were about 30 people who were gunshot victims who were hospitalized. We just had an update that, at last check, having reached out to three different hospitals where victims were taken, at least eight people are still hospitalized.

You had a chance to meet with some of the victims who were injured and family members. What were those moments like?

SCHANOWITZ: My function, again, was not to engage in conversation, in happenstance conversation, asking where they were, what happened.

My function, my sole function was spiritual, just to extend comfort, consolation and encouragement and say a prayer or two. And that's basically what I did, went from room to room, and spent a few moments with everyone.

And, in one case, a person was there said that their child was being airlifted, and that the person -- this was the mother -- was concerned. And we prayed together. And, again, that's basically what I was doing.

CABRERA: What types of injuries did you see? And I know you weren't there to ask a lot of questions, but what was your sense about sort of the state of mind of people?

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Were people fearful? Were they angry? What were you hearing?

I think we might have lost Rabbi Schanowitz there, with our technology connection broken up.

I want to thank Rabbi Yosef Schanowitz for the work that he's doing in trying to comfort this community and for sharing some of the story with us about what he personally experienced.

Tech giant Google has kept silent on the controversial Supreme Court decision abortion, until now. What the company just announced. That's ahead.

Plus, getting COVID once can be bad enough, but a new study shows reinfections can lead to even more health problems. we will explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:50]

CABRERA: Google is reacting to the Supreme Court's abortion decision. The company says that it's going to begin deleting records that show whether a person has been to an abortion clinic or fertility center.

CNN's Brian Stelter is falling in developments in this story.

Brian, how exactly will this work?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Google has been under a lot of pressure in recent weeks about this topic ever since the Supreme Court ruling. Google and other big companies that have incredible amounts of our user data coming right off our phones from the apps that we use tracking us all the time, even if we don't realize, that includes tracking people when they are visiting medical facilities.

So now Google is announcing that it is going to be making changes to the data it collects and the way it collects it. It says -- and it's listing a number of locations, sensitive areas, it says, counseling centers, domestic violence centers, and abortion clinics, where it's going to remove that data.

Quote: "Today, we're announcing that if our systems identify that someone has visited one of these places, we will delete these entries from location history soon after they visit. This effect will take -- change will take effect in the coming weeks."

So it includes more than abortion clinics. It includes weight loss clinics, cosmetic surgery, locations, et cetera. But it's Google's way of trying to get out in front of these concerns that people's data could be used against them.

And there are also concerns about a medical trackers like Fitbit and women who use those devices to track their menstruation cycles. Could that data be used in the future to punish a woman, to prosecute a woman for having an abortion in one of these states where it's been banned?

Google also taking action to make sure that data -- at least they're trying to ensure that data could not be used by prosecutors. But, look, a lot of the devils here are in the details. We have to see exactly how Google implements these changes and what other companies do as well, Ana.

CABRERA: And, of course, different states have different laws, especially because we know there are about two dozen states that were positioned to have these abortion bans go into effect should Roe be overturned.

What are we learning about Google searches in those states where abortions are now banned or restricted?

STELTER: We see searches for terms like abortion pills now increasing in some of those very same states.

You have to be careful not to be too broad or do generalize in this look at the data, because Google doesn't exactly tell you how many people are searching for terms in any given city or state. But they do provide helpful overarching data to show what searches are rising and falling.