Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Warning Signs Missed in Highland Park Shooting?; Highland Park Mass Shooting Investigation Continues. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 05, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:40]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Victor is off today.

Highland Park authorities just released new details about the mass shooting at their Fourth of July parade, where six people were killed. A police official said the 21-year-old shooting suspect planned this attack for weeks; 38 people were wounded. According to police, the suspect had a second rifle in his car and more weapons at home.

He purchased the weapons locally and legally. He used a high-powered rifle to fire roughly 70 rounds into the crowd. A recording captured the barrage of gunfire. And I want to warn you it's disturbing. The very first thing you will hear are the shots and then you will see all the innocent people running for their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNSHOTS)

(SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It's just mayhem, just mayhem.

Officers arrested the suspect, well, yes, the suspected gunman, about six hours after the rampage. Highland Park authorities also revealed how he was able to go on the run using a disguise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS COVELLI, LAKE COUNTY, ILLINOIS, SHERIFF'S OFFICE: During the attack, Crimo was dressed in women's clothing. And investigators do believe he did this to conceal his facial tattoos and his identity and help him during the escape with the other people who were fleeing the chaos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell is in Highland Park for us.

Josh, we have seen this horror movie so many times before. Of course, it's sickening, I know, to everyone there on the ground, to all of us. Is there any information yet on what was wrong with this 21-year-old suspect, why he would do this?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I know from talking to law enforcement sources that this suspect, Alisyn, had a very robust digital footprint, including several posts that were concerning.

We know that included one post that was an animation of sorts involving a character that resembled the shooter conducting an attack, again, this character animation. There were also posts about blood and other troubling things, raising questions about whether there were warning signs here that someone should have picked up on.

Now, we heard just a short time ago from police, learning quite a bit about what happened before, during and after this fatal July 4 attack. We're told that the suspect was planning this for a matter of weeks, according to police. He went to this location, up onto a rooftop near the parade route, a sniper nest-type situation, firing down on that crowd.

We're also told that a level of that planning also included dressing in women's clothing in order to help try to blend into this crowd. And as the panic ensued and people were escaping, he was rushing out of there, was able to get out of that location.

Also learning a lot about the type of weaponry that was used in this attack. Of course, it will surprise none of us hearing a lot of those rounds, the rapid fire, this was an AR-15-style weapon, the same type of weapon we have seen in so many mass shootings.

Take a listen to the deputy chief talking about the weapons they found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COVELLI: He was in possession of the firearm the day of, the rifle. He was in possession of another rifle in his vehicle when he was pulled over by police. He also had other firearms that were recovered from a residence that he was living in, in Highwood.

QUESTION: All in his name?

COVELLI: They were in his name.

QUESTION: And all legally purchased?

COVELLI: They were legally purchased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: So, an AR-15-style rifle legally obtained by the suspect.

Finally, we're also learning about the circumstances of the actual arrest itself. Now, I can tell you I was over near the crime scene. Whenever we were watching, I was watching the posture of police and they barreled out of there, going about five miles down the road.

I followed the SWAT team, where we saw a police officer was able to stop that vehicle. He was safely taken into custody. We're told that it was a tip from the public. Obviously, we in the media had been pushing out that information about the suspect, about the vehicle. An alert citizens saw that, called 911. They were able to locate the suspect.

Finally to the question of motive, that remains ongoing. I asked the deputy chief a short time ago whether the suspect is cooperating. They said he is talking with law enforcement. They are not yet prepared to announce what it is he is saying. That part about the motive, Alisyn, remains ongoing.

[14:05:05]

CAMEROTA: OK, Josh Campbell, thank you for your reporting.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is also in Highland Park for us.

So, Ed, I know you're learning about some of the people who were killed. Tell us their stories.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, Alisyn, we have been able to identify two of the six victims in this shooting.

The first person I want to tell you about is 78-year-old Nicolas Toledo. He is a father of eight, a grandfather to many, as his family says in a GoFundMe page. He's described as adventurous, creative, funny, and loving. He was there at the parade with his family. They said it was supposed to be a fun day that turned into a -- quote -- "horrific nightmare."

We have also learned about Jacki Sundheim. The leadership at the synagogue that she belongs to here in the Highland Park area, North Shore Congregation Israel, identified her as one of the victims and said that she had worked at the synagogue there as a staff member working as a preschool teacher and an events coordinator.

Now, there were dozens more who were injured in this attack, many of them treated at least three different hospitals. We are told by hospital officials that in all there were about 39 victims, in addition to the six people that were killed. And, as of right now, we are told that nine of those people still remain hospitalized. They age in range from 14 to into their 70s, and that one of those people is a 69-year-old man who remains in critical condition.

So, still a lot -- a great deal of work to save the lives of people who were also wounded in this attack. And that work continues here at this hour, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Ed Lavandera, thank you for that update.

A doctor caught in the chaos in Highland Park describe the injuries that he treated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DAVID BAUM, WITNESS: The people who were gone were blown up by that gunfire.

QUESTION: Blown up.

BAUM: Blown up. Blown up. The horrific scene of some of the bodies is unspeakable for the average person.

Some of the bodies where -- there was an evisceration injury from the power of this gun and the bullets. There was another person who had an unspeakable head injury, unspeakable, unspeakable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: My next guest also helped care for those wounded on the scene.

Dr. Wendy Binstock Rush is an anesthesiologist and was at the parade when this happened.

Doctor, thank you so much for being here.

As I understand it, you heard the shots. You saw the people running and you ran up to the police to say, what can I do? And what did they tell you?

DR. WENDY BINSTOCK RUSH, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: That's correct. Thank you for having me. This is such a tragic incident.

But that's correct. I was sitting probably -- I actually was waiting for my family to show up at the parade. And I was probably underneath where the shooter was firing. He was firing across the street. And at the time the shots ceased, multiple people jumped up and rushed into help in every way there could.

Anybody who had any medical background, from first aid to physicians, all jumped into action to do what ever they could to help the situation.

CAMEROTA: We just heard from another doctor who was on the scene who wouldn't even describe what he saw because the injuries were so unspeakable. I know that you found a man who was grievously injured and you were trying to help him. What did you do for him? What were you able to do for him?

BINSTOCK RUSH: Well, unfortunately, I wasn't able to do enough. But at the time that people were springing into action, I did identify myself as a physician, anesthesiologist, to the first aid -- to the paramedics and the first responders.

And they showed me to the most critical person at that time, who was this gentleman. He -- CPR was in progress, people were holding pressure on an abdominal wound that he was profusely bleeding from. The paramedics had what we call an Ambu bag, which is a mask attached to a bag, which I could then breathe for the patient. CPR continued. We had a large I.V. started in the field. We were able

to give him some I.V. fluid to replenish -- to hopefully replace some of the blood he was losing.

The paramedics then showed up, and they -- we put him in the ambulance and we continued all the same treatments until we arrived at the hospital, at which point, he -- we took him into the hospital, and we spent about another 20 to 30 minutes working on the him. But, unfortunately, he had lost way too much blood and his injuries were too severe.

And he did perish at the hospital.

CAMEROTA: I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to hear that.

[14:10:01]

I mean, you are, as we said, an anesthesiologist. I imagine you have been part of very serious surgeries in your career. Have you ever seen injuries like this?

Oh, Doctor, I don't know if you can still hear us. Did you lose -- you lost -- all right, we will get back to the doctor as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, police are still searching for a motive in this attack. Up next, the role of social media, all of the warning signs that were missed.

Plus, it wasn't just Highland Park, Philadelphia and New York just some of the other cities that saw mass shootings yesterday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:00]

CAMEROTA: Three hundred and seventeen, that's how many mass shooting incidents -- that's defined as four or more people being shot -- that's how many America has seen so far this year. We're barely into July.

There were at least seven mass shootings yesterday alone. Nearly every corner of the country has had one this year from coast to coast. There's no place to hide anymore. Among some of the targets, a school, a church, a hotel, a hospital, a barbecue, a parade.

Philadelphia's police union is offering $20,000 for information leading to the arrest of the gunman behind yesterday's shooting of two police officers. One officer suffered an injury to his shoulder, the other a wound to his forehead.

Social media video apparently filmed from a nearby building shows crowds running as light from police cars flash. Philadelphia's mayor says he's fed up with the gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIM KENNEY (D), MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA: This is a gun country. It's crazy. We're the most armed country in world history. And we're one of the least safest.

So until Americans decide that they want to give up the guns and give up the opportunity to get guns, we're going to have this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Police in Kenosha, Wisconsin, are investigating another July 4 mass shooting. It left one person dead, four others injured. They say they encountered a chaotic scene at a house where the gunfire erupted. So far, no suspects in custody there, no known motive.

President Biden ordered flags lowered to half-staff today at the White House, public buildings and military posts to honor the victims of yesterday's mass shooting in Highland Park. They will remain lowered through Saturday.

CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly joins me now.

Phil, is the president planning to go to Highland Park?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, he was asked this morning. He said he didn't know yet. But, if he does, it would certainly track with something that has become almost one of the more routine, if tragic, issues that the president has been dealing with over the course of his first 16, 17, 18 months in office.

The flags are lowered to half-mast, the president signs a resolution, he travels to a place of a mass shooting, he grieves with families, he meets with families, and then he calls for action.

Now, after the last set of shootings in Buffalo and in Uvalde, that call for action actually resulted in legislation, the most significant gun safety legislation in more than three decades. The president signed it into law just a couple of weeks ago. And yet here the country is again.

Now, last night, the president at the White House Fourth of July celebration with military families, he called for a moment of silence. He referred to the shooting, made clear more needs to be done, more work needs to be done. Legislatively, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of possibility of that happening after what just occurred.

But all you hear when you talk to White House officials is, it just keeps happening again and again. The one brief moment of kind of bipartisan triumph and hope when it comes to guns has been very quickly washed away by yet another mass shooting. And it's something that White House officials know, whether it's taking the flags down to half-mast or planning a presidential trip, it will certainly be happening again at some point.

We will see what the president has to say as this week goes on. Karine Jean-Pierre Korean, the White House press secretary, will be briefing in a short moment if there are any -- be any travel plans or any more policy discussions that the president wants to put forth. But more than anything else, this just underscores that, even in the wake of a significant bipartisan legislative achievement on gun safety, on gun violence, it is still a pervasive issue that you cannot get away from, no matter where you are in this country -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Even if you're at a Fourth of July parade.

Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Charles Ramsey. He's our CNN senior law enforcement analyst and a former Philadelphia police commissioner. We also have retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Steve Moore.

Gentlemen, we have been here so many times. I mean, we just keep having these conversations. It feels so circular and, at times, so hopeless.

But, Steve, I just want to pull up the suspect's picture for a moment, because these suspects, these violent young men are starting to look like. This guy, I mean, from Columbine, through Sandy Hook, through Uvalde, now now. Is it too much to ask, Steve, when one of these guys comes into a gun store, is it too much to ask the gun seller to do a cursory check on social media?

Because had he, there was a well of information on the violent ideation that this guy had?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, the problem is, is that they're not really asked to and they're not really allowed to in some ways.

They are retail merchants. It would be as if somebody -- as if you went to a liquor store, and somebody, if they registered, checked your social media to make sure that you hadn't driven drunk before. The gatekeepers are the government, essentially. It is not the retail establishment.

[14:20:00]

CAMEROTA: I like that analogy, Steve, because I used to be a waitress.

And for a while, we were told to run up the alcohol tab on people, on customers who came in, because you got them to pay more that way. Then the law changed. And you couldn't serve somebody who you knew had been drinking, because they were killing people on the highway.

And so, once you recognize...

MOORE: Yes, that's a little different, though, Alisyn, because you were actually serving...

CAMEROTA: I understand. None of these analogies are perfect, Steve. I get it. None of these are perfect.

My point is, you can sometimes see them coming a mile away. Let me get Chief Ramsey in here for a second.

They're all starting to fit a pattern, Chief, these isolated teenage or up to 21-year-old young men who then go and buy AR-15s.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I don't know if the retailer has the capacity to be able to do that.

And, I mean, I think what you're asking them to do is make up for what the federal government has not done. And that is pass any kind of real meaningful and impactful legislation as it relates to guns with the kinds of deep background checks that need to take place prior to the gun actually getting into the hands of the individual who's attempting to purchase it.

And so there's a lot of work that needs to be done. Granted, they just passed some legislation. That's better than nothing, but it doesn't go far enough. But we got to figure this out. I mean, this is just -- it's ridiculous. It's just one right after the other.

I'm here in Philadelphia, and we had two policemen shot last night during the fireworks display. I mean, this isn't going to stop on its own. It's going to continue as long as the action, strong action, the right action isn't taken to really keep the guns out of hands -- out of the hands of people that just should not have.

CAMEROTA: And I hear what you're both saying. It's not the law for gun sellers to do that. I mean, I hear what you're saying, that we're basically just asking for sort of common sense, because here's what reporters were able to find very quickly after the suspect was identified.

Here's what our investigative correspondent Drew Griffin was very quickly able to locate on social media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: There's a picture of a stick figure, which, again, it's a stick figure, but it resembles him in the hair. And he's laying prone on the ground in blood getting shot at by police, another stick figure where he's aiming at just innocent victims, and he's dressed, a stick figure, in tactical gear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Steve, if this is on social media for reporters to find, what's the solution? What else would help here?

MOORE: Well, you would have -- you're going to have to change some of the laws.

When I was in the FBI, we were told that we could not go on social media and troll to look for stuff, trolling kind of like fishing. We couldn't go do that, because that would be a violation of somebody's right to free speech. You don't want the government -- or people say they don't want the government out there just looking at the Web, any more than you want them listening to your phone calls.

So we have to decide, at least on this type of issue, how much government you want on the Internet, and how much government you want monitoring the public. And I know this is -- I know these are disturbing decisions here, one or the other.

But that's one of the things that are problematic about this.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it is, because it keeps happening. There's a pattern, and we all keep seeing it, and we all keep talking about it. And yet there seems to be -- for whatever reason, we're not able to go and look at the social media first.

Furthermore, Commissioner, he also was able to purchase all -- as we just learned in a press conference an hour ago, all these weapons locally and illegally using his own name. However, he purchased them at different places. Is there no such thing as a database where a gun seller can look to see if somebody has recently in the past day purchased an AR-15?

Would that help, Commissioner?

RAMSEY: Well, it would help if there was some kind of database, but, also, where's the law that says you can't buy guns in different places?

I mean, we need to really sit and think through what we want. What's the balance? I mean, Steve mentioned, how much intrusion do you really want from the government in terms of looking at your Facebook page or what have you?

I mean, where's the balance? And we got to find the balance, because there are a lot of people that have crazy stuff on the Internet, but they don't act it out. And so how far do we really want to go? It's easy to find this stuff after the fact, but, in real time, not necessarily that easy. And, right now, people are able to go from store to store and buy guns. There are just -- the laws just need to be changed, I think.

[14:25:00]

But there's another part of this, because, right now, we're talking about mass shooting. But there's shootings and homicides, gun violence that occurs on the streets of our city every single day in America. And it's not just the guns. It's the idiots that use guns to commit crime.

And some of these guys just need to be in jail when they get caught using a gun to commit a crime or carrying a gun illegally. I mean, I know that's not popular to say right now. We want to treat everybody with kids' gloves.

CAMEROTA: But wait a minute. Hold on. But hold on, Commissioner.

Just help us understand that. You're saying that somebody who uses a gun and the commission of a crime is not going to jail? RAMSEY: There are some that are being -- we have got people right now

that are out on the street that have got pending cases against them for various gun violations, assaults, things of that nature.

I mean, that's not uncommon. It is not uncommon, not in every city, but in many cities. That's what's going on right now. There's no question about that.

And so we have got to look at the entire system. We want to blame everything just on guns. We got to look at the people who are using these guns. And so I understand what you're saying. But we have got to be able to find that balance of just how much can we actually do proactively when it comes to really looking at people who have not yet committed a crime?

And this guy, when he bought that gun, he had not yet committed a crime. And so how far do you really want to go when you're talking about people like that? That's one group.

But then you got another group of folks that are out there committing crimes and they're still on the street.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I take your point. I take your point. I mean, I think that we're all looking for solutions. And we're trying to figure out ways to be proactive, because whatever is happening is not working. That's why I talk to you every week or two about these kinds of mass shootings.

Charles Ramsey, Steve Moore, thank you both for your expertise. Really appreciate it.

Parents went to desperate lengths to protect their children in yesterday's shooting, including a father who put his son in a dumpster to shield him from the gunfire.

Plus, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson dealt another huge blow after two of his ministers resign. We're live from London next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]