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More Information on Highland Park Shooting; Bob Morgan is Interviewed about the Highland Park Shooting; Georgia Grand Jury Subpoenas Trump Allies; Michael Moore is Interviewed about the Georgia Grand Jury Subpoenas. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 06, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:42]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Just a stunning trail of mixed red flags.

This morning, the suspect accused of killing seven people now, injuring at least 38 others at the Highland Park July 4th parade is expected to make his first court appearance. Twenty-one-year-old Robert Crimo III now charged with seven counts of first-degree murder. The death toll rising with authorities promising more charges will be filed. As he heads to court, officials released even more details about Crimo and the shooting and, frankly, missed warnings prior.

HILL: Yes, among those new details that we're learning, authorities say the suspect fired more than 70 high velocity rounds from a rifle similar to an AR-15 as it was described. That's one of five firearms the suspect purchased legally in the last two years. Legally purchased. There were four background checks that needed to be cleared. There were these two run-ins with police. But as we'll talk about, those were not something that, as we understand it, were going to come up in those background checks. And that's something people are questioning this morning.

One of those encounters came after a family member called police saying that he had said he wanted to kill everyone.

Last night, Vice President Kamala Harris making an unexpected visit to Highland Park.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to be smarter as a country in terms of who has access to what and in particular assault weapons. And we've got to take this stuff seriously. As seriously as you are because you have been forced to have to take it seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Authorities have also now identified six of the seven victims killed in the shooting. Two, a couple, parents, whose two-year-old toddler was found alive after the shooting stopped.

I want to get straight to CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell, who is outside the Lake County Courthouse where that bail hearing will happen a little bit later this morning.

Josh, what more do we know about the alleged gunman and how he was able to legally obtain these firearms despite those two encounters with law enforcement?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica.

We learned a lot of information over the past 24 hours. We know that this alleged shooter has now been charged with seven counts of first- degree murder, one count for each of the victims killed in that parade shooting. We're also learning that the suspect was able to, over the course of a year, to legally obtain five firearms, including the assault-style rifle that was allegedly used in this attack.

Now, police say, as they've gone back and looked into the shooter's past, they believe that planning for this attack went back weeks. And that included, on the day of this shooting, the suspect allegedly dressing in women's clothing. Police say they believe that was in an effort to try to conceal himself moving among the crowd. And then, of course, when the panic ensued, he then was able to make his way of escape there. But they're saying that they believe that this was planned and plotted for weeks in advance.

Now, there is this troubling information we're learning about his past encounters with law enforcement. Police told us yesterday that there were two encounters they had previously. One was in April of 2019, when a family member called police and said this suspect attempted to commit suicide. Police responded. They ultimately determined that this wasn't a policing issue. The suspect was being treated by a mental health professional.

But just months later, in September of that same year, police were called back to the house. A relative said that this suspect had threatened to kill every member of his family. Police said that there was a collection of knives inside this house that included a dagger and a sword. Those were confiscated by police.

The local law enforcement said they notified state police. Their role was to try to determine if the suspect had a firearms license. They wanted to know if he had any type of guns, those kinds of weapons. They determined that he didn't.

But here's the troubling thing. Months after that, just three months, in December, we're told by state police that the suspect applied for a firearms license. And because he was under age, it was his father that sponsored him. So, a lot of troubling questions today for the father. Why, you know, the suspect, if he allegedly had these issues about inflicting self-harm or harm on others, why, after those police encounters, would the father sponsor an application to obtain a firearm, including the firearm that was allegedly used in this attack.

Now, where I am here, I'm here at Lake County Courthouse in Waukegan.

[09:05:02]

The suspect will have his first appearance in court in just a few hours' time. We will see him. Prosecutors say that this is just a waive, these first charges, in what could be more charges to come.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC RINEHART, STATE'S ATTORNEY FOR LAKE COUNTY, ILLINOIS: There will be more charges. We anticipate dozens of more charges centering around each of the victims, psychological victims, physical victims, attempt murder charges, aggravated discharge charges, aggravated battery charges. There will be dozens of more charges against Mr. Crimo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: So, efforts to prosecute this suspect now underway. That first appearance here in just a short period of time. But the investigation, Jim and Erica, continues here as well. Authorities still have so many questions about this shooter's motive. They are continuing to dig into his past, again, to try to get to the bottom of what exactly happened here, why he went to this parade allegedly conducting this mass slaughter.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, lots of charges after the fact. What was missed before the fact?

Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: Yes.

HILL: Joining us now is Andrew McCabe, CNN senior law enforcement analyst, former FBI deputy director.

So, in terms of what was potentially missed here, what was missed, as Josh just laid out for us, those two encounters in 2019 with police, the calls that were made over concerns about the alleged gunman. Illinois State Police, later in the day yesterday, put out this statement where they said there was no firearms restraining order, no protection order filed. He didn't have a FOID card at the time.

When you look at all of that, I know we're dealing with hindsight here, but when you look at that, are these red flag laws actually working in the way they're intended?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Erica, you've highlighted the point, right? So, this is the challenge with red flag laws. We have essentially taken the responsibility for determining who can and can't have a firearm and shifted it to the general public, largely because the government is incapable of regulating firearms in an effective way. So now you're - these critical decision are left in the hands of

family members and people who observe things. So, great when it works, when people contact the authorities and make the appropriate notifications, but you have a lot of situations like this.

So let's be clear, first, the Highland Park Police, when they responded to the knife incident in September, they could have gone in front of a judge after that incident and submitted a restraining order application, which they have in Illinois, and that would have prevented him from purchasing a firearm for some period of time, even though he didn't currently already own one. So there may have been a miss there.

And then the attention focuses, of course, on his father. So let's remember that this same day 16 knives, a dagger and a sword were seized from the - from the residence, the father reclaimed all those weapons from the police. So, he can't now say he didn't know what was happening, whether it was in his residence or somebody else's. He knew what was going on.

And then a few months after that incident, he signs an affidavit and sponsors Crimo for the firearms I.D.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCABE: It's -- in retrospect, it's really hard to imagine how he could have made such a decision. I'm sure it will subjects him to some level of scrutiny. Definitely civil scrutiny, civil liability potentially, maybe even criminal liability, who knows, but we'll see.

SCIUTTO: But you frame it right because, in effect, it's a shifting of the responsibility on parents, members of the community, police. I mean I've been out with police who basically have to serve as mental health, you know, providers themselves in many circumstances.

The trouble then is, that seems to be the one area of bipartisan agreement, right, is some support for red flag laws. And that was one of the headlines from this most recent legislation coming out. Is that a problem in terms of addressing this going forward, if that's the one area of agreement, but there are many weaknesses in that red flag law kind of structure.

MCCABE: Yes. It's absolutely a problem, Jim. And I'm -- to be clear, I'm not saying that red flag laws are bad. They are a good thing and people should have the ability, should be processed -

SCIUTTO: I don't think you are. Yes.

MCCABE: When family members think they've seen something concerning, that they should be able to go to the authorities and take that kind of action. But it does not -- does not replace the effectiveness of actually controlling access to firearms. So, you know, we still are -- live in a country where 18-year-olds can buy fully - or semiautomatic military rifles, you know, with 30-round high capacity magazines. So, the red flag law does not go as far as we need to go to make spaces like July 4th parades, synagogues and middle schools safe. SCIUTTO: Andy McCabe, thanks so much.

[09:10:02]

MCCABE: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: All right, so let's go to the area of Highland Park. I'm joined now by Illinois State Representative Bob Morgan, whose district includes Highland Park.

Representative, thanks for taking the time this morning.

BOB MORGAN (D), ILLINOIS STATE HOUSE: Yes, thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first of all, allow me to begin with you because, as I understand it, you were there on that parade route with your two children. I can only imagine my own fear, frankly anger, if I had been there and my children were exposed to this. So my question to you is simply, how are you doing, how are they doing?

MORGAN: I'm not doing great, to be honest, Jim. It's been a very difficult 48 hours for me and my family and my neighbors, my community. We've been really struggling. It's been very, very difficult. A lot of grief counseling. A lot of really trying to shake ourselves out of this daze.

My children, we were about two blocks away. They are asking all the normal questions that a seven-year-old and a four-year-old would ask. And we're handling that the best we can. My wife's a social worker who's doing a tremendous job on that.

But our entire community is really grieving at this exact moment.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MORGAN: We were together last night for the first time with a number of vigils around the community and it was just - it was very, very therapeutic to get together and to start to grieve together.

SCIUTTO: Oh, I'm sure. I mean I get those questions even when the events are many miles away. So to have seen it straight up in your face, as you did, my heart goes out to you and your family.

One thing that I imagine must be supremely frustrating for you is that there were warning signs about this. Police were aware. The parents were aware. Yet he passed four background checks, able to purchase five firearms legally, as we hear so often following shootings like this.

Who failed here in your view? Who are you holding responsible?

MORGAN: Yes, a great question. I mean I'm getting the updates just as much as you are over the last 24 hours and we're continuing to learn more.

I'm immediately going to work on everything I can do at the state level to tighten up any state legislation that might have flaws or loopholes. You know, we're certainly going to work at the local level to make sure we're providing additional supports wherever necessary.

But that question is going to be asked every single day for weeks and months here in Highland Park, what could we have done, how could we have stopped that. And that's why I'm happy to be here with you today to talk about that.

SCIUTTO: You tried, your community, in one way, to address this, by enacting a law banning assault style weapons. You will hear, and you already hear, well, you guys had the laws and it still didn't prevent this.

As often happens, though, and we don't know the circumstances in particular here, those guns come from places outside communities. States, communities with more lax gun laws. I mean, in your view, do state and local restrictions work given that folks get around them just by driving a few miles?

MORGAN: Yes, no, I think the total comprehensive package, right, this is the way we have to address all of this. We have to address the vast majority of millions and millions and millions of guns that are in our communities. We have to address the lack of funding in mental health and that's why I wanted to talk to you and all of your viewers, that no matter where you live, as I'm talking to you from Highland Park, I have a call to arms for you today, a call to action.

Today, wherever you live in the entire country, contact your local elected representatives, your state representatives just like me, your state senators, and ask them two questions. One, why is an extended firearm clip, why is an assault weapon more valuable and have more rights than my life, my family's life, and my community's life? And the second question is, how are you going to increase funding for mental health? Where is that money going to come from? How are you going to work together to build a dialogue and discourse around that?

And then you've got to hold everyone accountable. Talk to them about that dialogue. And when they ask you who sent you, you tell them Highland Park sent you. And you have that conversation over and over and over, wherever you live in the entire country.

SCIUTTO: I have heard those appeals before, and it's a heart-felt one and God knows I'd be making the same one, I'm sure, if I went through this.

Do you have hope that folks will listen this time?

MORGAN: Well, Jim, we have I assume millions of people watching this show right now. If you're anywhere in the country, when you have this conversation today with your elected officials, and I'm not talking about next week or tomorrow, this morning, everyone whose watching this, call your local elected official. Have them look you in the eye and say, I will increase mental health funding. And when you ask, how are you going to do that, where is the money going to come from, start that conversation because, in my experience, as a state legislature, that is how change happens. We've seen that on a lot of issues, when you have that conversation, when you work together with people with different views and different political ideologies, you can effect change, you can make that change happen.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MORGAN: So, yes, I am confident and hopeful that we can change throughout the country on all of these issues.

SCIUTTO: Bob, well, please take care of yourself, take care of those two little kids of yours.

[09:15:02]

I really do sincerely wish you the best.

MORGAN: Thank you so much, Jim, and thank you to all your viewers.

HILL: We are learning more about the seven victims who were killed in that shooting. Authorities have now identified six of them. Two of them were married. Thirty-five-year-old Irina McCarthy and her 37- year-old husband Kevin, they were at the parade with their two-year- old son, who was found alive after the shooting stopped. Eighty-eight- year-old Stephen Straus' family describes him as full of life. They say he was excited to attend the parade that day. His grandson telling CNN, he was very active. He enjoyed life. He attended music festivals, loved to get outside and biked into his 80s.

And we will be sharing more about the victims with you throughout the morning.

SCIUTTO: That couple's poor child, orphaned.

Coming up next, Rudy Giuliani and Senator Lindsey Graham get a subpoena from a Georgia grand jury investigating former President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election there. I'll speak to a former U.S. attorney about whether they must appear.

Plus, President Biden under pressure form his own party to act more urgently on issues, such as abortion and inflation.

HILL: And, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson just getting hammered again by lawmakers. Two top cabinet members stepped down, triggering a wave of resignations. Could this time actually signal an end to his time in office?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As for those who are left, only in office, because no one else is prepared to debase themselves any longer, the charge of the lightweight brigade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:42] HILL: A special grand jury investigating the effort to overturn Georgia's 2020 election results is now reaching inside former President Trump's inner circle.

SCIUTTO: The Atlanta area grand jury has now subpoenaed Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, the president's former personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and a handful of key Trump allies, pictured there, signaling a new phase in the probe of potential criminal interference tied to 2020 election lies and meddling.

CNN's Sara Murray joins us now from Washington.

I mean the simplest question is, we see a lot of people ignore subpoenaed in the past. Will they have to listen to these subpoenas?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is not something they're just going to be able to ignore. Whether they're going to agree to cooperate and give testimony is another question. I mean you saw there, it was a wide range of people. You know, a number of from Trump campaign lawyers, some legal advisors these went to and reached out to them to see what they plan to do.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MURRAY: Most of them were not responding or not commenting yesterday.

But when you look at these folks, you know, you look at someone like John Eastman, for instance, he's someone who went before the January 6th committee and pleaded the fifth over and over again. You know, it's possible he could reach out to that grand jury and say, if you make me show up here, I'm just going to plead the Fifth.

Well, then the district attorney can share that information with the grand jury and say, you know, this is someone who can just plead the Fifth. Keep that in mind when you write your report and tell us if you want - if you believe that anyone should be indicted, if you believe that there were any crimes that were committed.

And, again, you know, this is a criminal case. She' looking at solicitation of election fraud, making false statements, that kind of thing.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MURRAY: You know, for Rudy Giuliani in particular, he's someone who showed up before Georgia lawmakers repeatedly and just gave these sort of conspiracy laden presentations about bogus election fraud.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly, how quickly do we know, weeks, months, years before -

MURRAY: Well, the subpoenas we're saying, she wants to hear from them as soon as this week. We will see - sorry, as soon as next week. So we will see if anyone complies in that short of time frame. I would expect there would be a little bit of legal wrangling around some of these. SCIUTTO: Yes. I think that's a good prediction.

MURRAY: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Sara Murray, thanks very much.

HILL: Joining me now, Michael Moore, former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia, current partner at Moore Hall in Atlanta.

It's good to have you with us.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: It's good to be with you.

HILL: You know, as we pick - as we pick up on this here, the court documents that go along with these subpoenas, what does that tell you about the focus of this grand jury?

MOORE: Well, I'm glad to be with you this morning.

As I look at the subpoenas, I'm not particularly surprised that she's starting to now move into the inner circle of Trump. I think we all knew that was likely coming. You had some people before who needed a subpoena to sort of give themselves some cover in their own political party that they weren't going to participate unless they had a subpoena. And so now we're actually getting to some pretty strong factual evidence.

When you look at the court filings, she had to file a statement basically stating that these were material witnesses to her investigation. And the judge, Judge McBurney, had to look at that and make a decision on whether or not they contained information that might be useful. They're out of state. There has to be some legal loops - hoops to jump through, and so they've done that.

But I do think, if you just look at it in sort of the overall picture we're now maybe tightening the focus a little bit. We are talking to lawyers and campaign lawyers, people who there in the Oval Office, or at least on the call for the former president - the magic call from Brad Raffensperger. And so I think we're getting now sort of down to the nuts and bolts. She's been sort of trailing this thing for a little while in sort of being the stomping horse out there. She's been taking to people on the periphery. But now she's taken a shot sort of closer to the inner circle.

HILL: Closer to the inner circle.

As we look at this, you know, as Sara and Jim were just talking about before we came to you, some legal moves are anticipated here.

MOORE: Sure.

HILL: I'm especially interested in Lindsey Graham, right? As a sitting lawmaker, he could invoke this speech and debate clause. But if I understand that correctly, he would basically have to convince a court that his call, right, was part of his legislative work. Do you see a path there for him?

MOORE: Yes. I see a lot of legal maneuvering. I agree with that.

You know, I felt that he was probably more in peril than some of the other individuals from the outset, and that is because he made this call to Raffensperger, sort of suggesting that the vote could be manipulated in some way, at a time when he was neither a candidate or a representative of a campaign.

[09:25:07]

He was simply a sitting United States senator calling in to a state where -- that he didn't represent at the time. And that seemed to me to be - to remove the arguments that could be make about, well, I was a candidate, I was just trying to, you know, secure and make sure that, you know, my people vote and are counted, that type of thing.

He may, in fact, try to use the clause that allows him to not testify. There are two of those going on now, Judge McBurney heard late last week some arguments from Georgia legislatures who say basically that I - you know, I'm immune from having to make these statements or to testify, give testimony about certain things that happened during my legislative duties. And the - lieutenant governor and another legislature have made that argument before the court. So, Judge McBurney has said, look - and for those that don't know, McBurney is the one who's supervising this special grand jury. He's the one that's sort of the procedural things go through at the time. He's crafting away and told the lawyers at the hearing, I'm going to craft a way for the witnesses to testify that won't get into matters that may be privileged or otherwise. We'll think about that. But I'm not going to totally say they don't have to comply with the subpoena, but I'm going to sort of narrow the approach or the broad stroke of the subpoena to certain things that I think would be appropriate. I think you may see that with Graham, too. And he may very well try to delay it. And I think, again, next week is optimistic. If she's hoping to hear from them next week because I do think you'll have some court battles going on back and forth.

HILL: Yes.

MOORE: And it may ultimately, some of them, go up to the state appellate courts.

HILL: So - so, you know, as we wait and watch for those court battles, there's also, if you are a part of this grand jury, right, there could be a certain type of immunity that you are afforded. What - what is that immunity? When and how, you know, would it apply? And is that something that is perhaps enticing when someone's thinking about complying with the subpoena?

MOORE: Yes, there is an ability of the prosecutor to basically give some immunity to get the testimony. Keep somebody just from coming in if they have pending criminal charges or the possibility of criminal charges out there saying, well, I take the Fifth, I take the Fifth. You know, if the prosecutor has a different target, that needs that information, you can offer them immunity for that testimony about things that they may say. If you think about it in terms of maybe a big drug conspiracy and you've got sort of a big drug dealer that the prosecutor's after, you bring in the guy that's selling on the streets. I'll give you immunity for those transactions and for what you testify about, but I need to hear about the man at the top of the ladder.

And so that's - that's essentially where we're at now. You may have some that seek immunity. I mean the Fifth, it's an ironic situation. You'll remember, early on, the former president saying that anybody that took the fifth was clearly guilty of something. He's made that statement before and now everybody around him is wanting to jump on the Fifth Amendment.

So, I expect we'll see that and I think the judge will work through those things. And, you know, the DA here is an experienced prosecutor. It's not something that she's going to let go without a good fight. And I'm sure she's thought about these things for some time.

HILL: Well, I think I can predict pretty confidently that we will be talking about this again in the coming days.

Michael Moore, really appreciate your expertise, thank you.

MOORE: Great to be with you. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a crisis in childcare. CNN speaks to parents forced to make difficult decisions as some centers close and others raise prices to offset inflation.

HILL: And we are just moments away now from the opening bell on Wall Street. Where do we stand? Dow futures down slightly, as you see there, just barely. Investigators waiting for the minutes from the latest Federal Reserve meeting. There is concern about a slowdown in economic growth after the Fed raised interest rates considerably. Oil prices, though, have stabilize after their biggest drop since March.

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