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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Boris Johnson Vows to Carry On After Wave of Resignations; Ukraine Rages Evacuations in Donetsk as Fighting Rages. Aired 5-5:30p ET

Aired July 06, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:49]

ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Isa Soares, live Abingdon Green in central London. It is 10:00 p.m. and you are watching CNN NEWSROOM.

I am outside parliament, where the British prime minister is clinging on to power. This despite really a mutiny playing out within his own party. So far -- and the number are climbing unfortunately by the hour -- more than 40, as you can see, 42 ministers have resigned from government, and that's just in one day.

And now, Boris Johnson has fired Michael Gove in the last, what, 20 minutes or so, one of the senior members of his cabinet as the prime minister remains defiant and refuses to step down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The earliest date I can see for a general election is two years from now, 2024 is the most likely date for the next election. We have a huge amount to deliver. We're going to get on and do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Now the number of resignations includes two of Johnson's once loyal supporters, that's finance advisor, as well as the health secretary. It is an embarrassing situation, you can imagine, for the British leader and many are asking how long he can survive.

The catalyst for all this was Chris Pincher, the senior conservative lawmaker who Johnson appointed, fully aware of his history of sexual misconduct allegations.

James Duddridge is a conservative MP in parliament, private secretary of Boris Johnson. He joins me now.

James, thank you so much for taking time just to speak to us.

I really want to start off with the number of resignations of what may be happening behind, really, 10 Downing Street. Give me a sense of what the prime minister is thinking, of the calculations being made right now given that we are 42 already. JAMES DUDDRIDGE, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: So, first here, a lot of

that number are like, parliamentary private secretaries, aren't played rules, and the number has expanded as a complexity of this -- a bit expanded. So, you shouldn't confuse that with ministers. But there have been ministerial resignations.

SOARES: Indeed, yes.

DUDDRIDGE: But that would be a fair number to look at.

So I was with the prime minister today, preparing for PMQs, the prime minister questions and prepare for the liaison committee, with the liaison committee, and I will be back with this team in Downing Street since. He listened to his cabinet. He sacked Michael Gove. Have been taking soundings from his cabinet and other people, he decided he can flight on.

So, he's come out fighting. What does that mean? This evening, he is going to make cabinet appointments, maybe a few other appointments. Next week he will be with Nadhim Zahawi, his new chancellor of exchequer, fantastic, will be announcing his new economic policies, including tax cuts.

We don't know what type of tax cuts. I cannot comment on that. That's what the red blood conservative MPs want.

SOARES: Let's break that down and start really with Michael Gove. Why did the prime minister decide to sack him at this point? He -- because what we were hearing, you can tell me if I'm wrong, is that the prime minister was advising him perhaps that he should step down, one of the many voices that are being reported.

Why did the prime minister, one of his closest allies, Michael Gove, why did he feel that he had to go at this point, at this juncture? Because he didn't trust him, believe him? I mean, just get a sense.

DUDDRIDGE: I like Michael. Michael has been a great secretary of state in many ways. He's helped the prime minister in many ways, but described him as one of his closest friends I think is wrong. It was Michael Gove who ran his campaign.

SOARES: But they were close.

DUDDRIDGE: And then backed out.

SOARES: Correct.

DUDDRIDGE: You know, going way back. So, there was already some friction there.

So, I wasn't it on the meeting. I don't know why he was sacked.

SOARES: But does that surprise you though? Is this a revenge of some sort because obviously -- he's the lack of loyalty by perhaps suggesting he should step down. Is that how you are interpreting it?

DUDDRIDGE: Not particularly. But, you know, he is one of many cabinet ministers who will be replaced. You know, we'll move on.

SOARES: Fine, but he's fighting on. You are saying he's fighting on?

(CROSSTALK)

DUDDRIDGE: He's in good spirits.

SOARES: He believes that he can win this? He believes that come a vote of confidence, that he can survive this, given the number of 42 already?

[17:05:04]

DUDDRIDGE: He is fighting on because he believes he can win. He understands that there's going to be a 1922 election for new members. He understands that they could change the rules.

But that people -- get through the elections, that is not a given. That the rules can be changed, that is not a given. And they then need a majority of people having their confidence in him, and that is not a given.

And bear in mind, this isn't going to take place this evening, this vote. It is going to take place when they see the prime minister's decisions, he's new, fresh cabinet, his ministerial appointments. They'll see the economic plan would then have been announced by Nadhim Zahawi and himself.

And I'm sure that there are other changes that he will make, because he has been listening to people today. He has not got everything right and will make changes accordingly.

SOARES: If he doesn't win a confidence vote, he will resign a suspect.

DUDDRIDGE: I'm not even thinking about that. My job is to make sure that he wins that vote.

SOARES: What we have been hearing from the letters of resignation, from Sajid Javid as well today, is that the prime minister has lost the trust of the people. He lacks integrity.

Is the prime minister -- you said the prime minister is listening, is he listening to what these members of his own party are saying? These 42 people that have stepped down, who are worried about the route, that the way the prime minister wants to take his party. Is he listening to what is being said? To what Sajid Javid said today about a question of integrity?

DUDDRIDGE: Yes. And, I mean, I know you spoke to Saj at great length in his office 5:30 yesterday. I'm not going to list some of the cabinet where in other parts of the country, so he's not spoken to every captain minister face to face as far as I know.

But, you know, I would guess he spoken to the vast majority of the cabinet, perhaps even all that we're in London today. SOARES: And to those who may say he's in an alternative universe,

he's actually not really aware of what is happening, the world is really closing in on him, what would you say to that, James?

DUDDRIDGE: He knows exactly what's going on because people like me tell him, and the cabinet told him.

SOARES: Do you think he will have, I know you think he's not going to -- he's going to win this. But if he doesn't win, this how wounded would he be? He's not going to be a very dignified exit if he does leave come Monday, Tuesday, whatever?

DUDDRIDGE: He's planning on success.

SOARES: You're sounding very confident. You're sounding very confident, very self assured.

DUDDRIDGE: I am just passing on the confidence that the prime minister has. You know, he is up for the fight.

SOARES: He is up for the fight.

DUDDRIDGE: He is coming out of the meeting saying, we can do this, come on. We can do this. We got the numbers. We're going to make the changes and we're going to get this done.

SOARES: But do you have the numbers -- do you have the numbers, James? I mean, we've seen this tally going up considerably throughout the day. How can you have the numbers if you've lost 42 already?

DUDDRIDGE: Well, the numbers for what?

(CROSSTALK)

SOARES: I'm talking about the support. You've lost the support. Do you think come a confidence vote, that you will have that? You are confident the prime minister can survive this fault.

DUDDRIDGE: I think if the vote came this evening, it would be testy. The vote isn't coming this evening.

They will see the prime minister having listened. They will see the prime minister having changed. They will see a new economic strategy, and they'll see tax cuts.

On those basis, and we'll have the new set of ministers. On that basis, yes, he could win.

SOARES: Prime Minister listening and changing, what would change between now until Monday if there is a confidence vote? What kind of prime minister are we going to see in that amount of time?

DUDDRIDGE: Well, he spent a lot of time listening. The only thing he's told me is about the economic changes, the tax cuts, the deregulation, and driving through some of the Brexit issues.

SOARES: And he believed the apology that he has made in the last few hours, he thinks that's sufficient?

DUDDRIDGE: I mean, he's going to continue his dialogue with the public, and the members of parliament. He feels he has a stronger mandate than the ones in Westminster. He has a mandate of 40 million people that voted for him in the last general election.

And that's not just a mandate. That's a responsibility. We're -- war in Ukraine, when we got these really tough cost of living problems, now is not the time to have a war within the party. Now is the time for some leadership.

And someone says, look, I'm staying because we've got a job to be done.

SOARES: Yeah. Of course, remembering he lost the by-elections, of course.

DUDDRIDGE: Midterm by-elections.

SOARES: I know, but one of success, of course, and some of the numbers on the polling we've seen that 17 percent of people who think he should resign. But you believe and your prime minister believes that he will -- that he will survive this. He will leave another day.

James, I really appreciate your time. Sorry, we grabbed you and put you in here. Appreciate it. Thank you very much, James Duddridge there.

Now I think we are going to Nic Robertson, who is outside 10 Downing Street.

Nic, I'm not sure. Is he there? Is Nic there?

[17:10:02]

Well, opposition leaders have been predicting an end to Boris Johnson's premiership.

There's -- Nic, I'm not sure you heard my interview there with James Duddridge. I mean, the feeling is very much, he's fighting on and he believes that he can win, perhaps if the vote were held today, not so much. But maybe Monday, he might win it. What did you make of that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I did hear it. I think this is the view of what's going inside Boris Johnson's mind and inside Downing Street this evening. So, that -- this is the first sort of clear and direct understanding we have a vet, that if there were a vote today, that it would be in his words, testing and tight.

But he feels that the prime minister is going to reveal a new cabinet, new ministers, that there will be tax cuts announced next week, that the public will see, and his party members will see a new version of the prime minister rolling out something new that is going to change, that is going to be a change. The prime minister is going to change. This was the message from Duddridge there. And I think perhaps an

insight into how to un-peg came in the committee that Boris Johnson faced earlier on today, where it was put to him as prime minister, you do not change. You do not learn the lessons. You keep making the same mistakes on different issues, but you keep repeating your failings.

I think this is what the critics are going to say to that kind of rhetoric that, you have been listening to, and you have the extracted in that thorough interview.

The insight into the prime minister at the moment flies in the face of his critics. It does, despite his -- despite that fighting spirit, it does fly in the face of all the other evidence that the prime minister's track record that he will take another run at it. The gamble here seems to be a three-point gamble on next week.

The 1922 backbench committee will vote for a new executive on Monday. So, the first gamble is that the executive is not one that is particularly supportive of Boris Johnson.

The second gamble on it is that that executive would not change the rules so they could call a vote of confidence in the prime minister within the next 11 months, because there is a 12-month window on the vote of a month ago.

And the third gamble is if that vote came, that the prime minister would win it. Vintage Boris Johnson, willing to gamble, willing to take risks, willing to fly in the face of every piece of evidence that is come along so far. But he does believe, it seems, there is no body, no group of people that are capable of forcing him from office.

So, he's going to take those gambles because he believes there is a new Boris around the corner that he believes is going to win by cutting taxes and presenting a new cabinet. The critics, of course, we've heard from today don't buy that.

SOARES: Yeah. Pretty much pressing the reset button, a reset button that we have seen being pressed time and time again, Nic, every time there has been some crisis within his party at 10 Downing Street.

So, given that, Nic, if we're waiting, if we're waiting for maybe a vote of confidence, may come Monday or later, if we continue seeing this avalanche of resignations, could that perhaps forces hand here? Or do you think by what we heard from James Duddridge is that he is going to fight on regardless of the number of people stepping down and leaving him on his own?

ROBERTSON: You know, until his forced to step down, until he has a vote of no vote of no confidence, it's clear that he won't. Boris Johnson by virtue of all the issues that are going on, some of it brought on by himself, some of international issues, presents to the outside world a strategy that is almost every day is a new day, every day is one step at a time, one step at the time. And it's really to get himself out of the latest challenge, the latest fix, which is where we are. But let's say he runs the course of the weekend, let's say his three

parts gambles strategy for the potential vote of no confidence goes his way but next week, that brings into summer recess and a likely thinking of this prime minister, the summer recess buys him more town to reset, rethink, recalibrate, represent, respin, redo and comment it all again.

But, you know, I think the best pundits at the moment -- I'm not really sure that he can make it through, through the summer recess. But he's taking that three step gambling can.

SOARES: Yeah, pressure may dissipate by summer recess, yeah. Many I've been speaking don't believe that either.

Nic Robertson, outside 10 Downing Street, thanks very much, Nic.

And coming up right here after a very short break, we'll get much more on our top stories as Boris Johnson fights this not the biggest crisis in his political career. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:33]

SOARES: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM.

Ukraine says it's putting up fierce resistance in the Donbas, as Russia focuses its fire on the Donetsk region. Ukrainian officials are renewing calls for all remaining civilians in the Donetsk to evacuate now as, of course, the fighting intensifies.

The city of Sloviansk is coming under increasing attacks ahead of expected there. But Ukraine says the city is heavily fortified, and advancing Russian forces have failed to surround it.

A regional military chief says that at least three people in Sloviansk were killed in new shelling attacks.

Well, Russia is also intensifying attacks on Kharkiv. That's Ukraine's second largest city, hitting apartment buildings, schools, as well as other civilian targets. Ukraine says Russia is attempting to draw Ukrainian forces away from the Donbas and force them to protect civilian lives in Kharkiv. The city's mayor toured buildings today that were severely damaged in the missile attack. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IHOR TEREKHOV, KHARKIV, UKRAINE MAYOR (through translator): I see such destruction as today, practically every day. The destruction in Kharkiv is caused by Russian aggressors trying to scare us, trying to scare the people. But you see, it is impossible to scare us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Now, Russia says its armed forces have destroyed two advanced U.S. rocket systems in eastern Ukraine, a claim that Ukrainian officials flatly deny.

[17:20:01]

Moscow also says it destroyed ammunition depots on the front line in the Donetsk region. In fact, Kyiv is again accusing Russia of spreading false information. And CNN is unable to verify either claim.

Well, the systems at play here are the HIMARS, multiple rocket systems, the U.S. has promised to send eight of them to Ukraine by mid-July.

CNN's Phil Black joins me now from Dnipro with more.

And, Phil, just talk us through the importance of this weapon, because for so long, we have had President Zelenskyy talk about the need for a high caliber weapon in trying to win the battle in the east of the country.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Isa, Ukraine has been asking these for a long time. They have had them in the field for a short period of time. They believe they are already making a difference. We were with the members of these units, of these multiple rocket launch systems known as HIMARS for short. At the time that they first heard about this Russian claim that two of the launchers had been destroyed.

And their response? In our presence, was to laugh. Ukraine's military has already dismissed these claims as false propaganda. The operators that we spoke to today said they are thrilled and grateful to have a new system. It expands the capabilities in powerful ways.

It allows them to hit key Russian targets with greater accuracy and from a greater distance than ever before. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK (voice-over): A secret location, a precious weapon, the high mobility artillery rocket system, or HIMARS, a powerful gift from the U.S. to Ukraine. So far, they have only received four launchers but the scorched marks on the earth show that they have been busy. The commander, Alexander, says that the HIMARS is now Ukraine's most important weapons.

He says, it's modern, precise, deadly, and the Russians should fear it.

The operators say that it's accuracy and range, about 44 miles, allows them to hit important sites deep inside Russian controlled territory.

Mostly command posts, weapons and ammunition storage. Officially, Ukraine confirms a few of the HIMARS strikes. But the evidence is out there. The crew says after each launch, they mine Russian new sites and social media to see the impact of their work.

Alexander says 20 minutes after their job is done, all the information is public. There was no comment from Ukraine over the cause of this huge explosion at a weapons depot close to the Russian border. The local pro-Russian forces were in no doubt, only Ukraine's new HIMARS could have done this.

The system's job is to take out high value Russian targets. The Ukrainians know that this is a high priority target for the Russians. A lot of care is being taken to ensure it stays safe protected from Russian eyes and weapons.

Somewhere in the woods and fields nearby, air defense systems and a special ground operation are gathering at the site. And they are all moving constantly, never staying longer than a day in one location.

In another site, with a HIMARS ability to influence the war, Ukrainian leaders cannot stop saying, thank you. No other donated weapon has inspired so much public gratitude from the president, defense minister and the military.

This commander wants to think the American people and President Biden for providing a weapon that is helping Ukraine stay in the fight. But he and every other soldier here knows that Russia still has the momentum in this war. That's why their message to their allies is unchanged.

Please send more weapons, now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK (on camera): So, Isa, Ukraine has had the system now for just 10 days, but its crews tell us that they are using the morale around the clock. They are getting by without sleep, trying to do as much damage to Russia as possible because they believe the harder they work, the greater the relief that will bring to Ukraine's defenders on the front lines.

And that is really the idea around the weapons, use their capabilities to destroy enough of Russia's important support infrastructure and site further from the front line, and, eventually, Russia's advance will falter -- Isa.

[17:25:08]

SOARES: Phil Black there live for us from Dnipro, Ukraine. Thanks very much, Phil.

I want to return now to our top story, defiance from number 10 Downing Street in the midst of chaos. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is refusing to resign, saying that he will get on with the job that he was elected to do. But his government is rapidly hemorrhaging members and his parliamentary private secretary says Johnson has just fired Senior Government Minister Michael Gove. It's happening as Johnson faces resounding calls from within his own party really to step down.

More than 40, and actually, 42 conservative ministers and lawmakers have resigned over the past day. Now the party is looking to reformulate its rules and can vote to remove him from power.

Bianca Nobilo is outside 10 Downing Street for us. And, Bianca, in the last, what, 20 minutes, less than 20 minutes or

so, I was speaking to Boris Johnson's private parliamentary secretary, who said, you know, Boris Johnson believes he can win this. He is going to fight on.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I thought that was really striking, the fact that he said the prime minister is ready for a fight and a fight that he thinks he can win.

But that's the kind of rhetoric that we are used to hearing in an election campaign and reference to the opposition. Who is Boris Johnson fighting now? It is an internal fight with his own party, and that's what makes tonight such a moment of crisis for the conservatives, and a continued paralysis for the functioning of government because now we have a prime minister who is defiant this evening, who's saying he is not going anywhere.

He believes that he has a mandate from the election in 2019 to continue, in his words, delivering the agenda for the country. But his party, en masse, are discontented. They are frustrated. They recognize the damage that this is doing to the party brand. And they feel like they simply can't go on.

So, what could possibly change things now? Well, the two things to watch out for, which could shift the dial on this story are the confidence vote that is likely to happen this week, if the 2022 Committee changes the rules, or a building up momentum trying to find possible successes for Johnson.

That chant you can hear, as people on the street chant, "Johnson out". Often, the mood here in Downing Street often reflects the mood of the country. I think tonight, it does.

SOARES: And what are they screaming? Boris must go, is that what they're saying, Bianca?

NOBILO: They are shouting Johnson out, as they have been for the last hour also. And we've seen in polls this evening that the majority of voters, according to those polls, and conservative voters would like to see the prime minister resign. He is doubling down. That seems to be increasing the frustration felt within the Tory Party. Any other prime minister would have resigned many scandals ago.

SOARES: Bianca Nobilo, outside 10 Downing Street, thanks very much, B.

And that does it for me. Thank you very much for your company.

"WORLD SPORT" is up next. Have a good evening.