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Cipollone to Testify; Griner in Russian Court; Mystery Monument Bombed. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired July 07, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We should note, we've learned that Crimo did attempt suicide prior.

I wonder, Illinois is a big state. A lot of counties in the state. Half of the times this red flag law was enacted was in your county. Why is that? Why is your county such an outlier? Why don't others take advantage?

ROBERT BERLIN, DUPAGE COUNTY STATE ATTORNEY: What I can tell you is like every other new law that gets enacted in Illinois, we get out in front of it. We train our police officers, I meet with my police chiefs every single month, at least once a month, and we do trainings at least twice a year for all the police departments. And we have trained on this law, like we do every other law. So, the police, again, they know what to look for. They know what facts are needed. And they know that this is an available option to protect the public, again, while still depending -- defending people's constitutional rights.

SCIUTTO: Well, Robert Berlin, we appreciate the work you're doing. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

BERLIN: Thank you very much, Jim. My pleasure.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Still ahead here, the committee investigating the insurrection on January 6th preparing now to sit down with a key witness who was in the room for those pivotal Oval Office conversations before January 6th. The questions former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone needs to answer, next.

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[09:36:01]

HILL: Former Trump White House Counsel Pat Cipollone will testify tomorrow before the House committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Sources tell CNN, Cipollone has agreed to a transcribed interview that will be behind closed doors. This after he was subpoenaed last week. Cipollone is credited with helping to stop Trump from taking some problematic steps following the 2020 presidential election.

Joining me now to discuss, Paul Rosenzweig, a former senior council Whitewater - in the Whitewater investigation, who also served as deputy assistant secretary for policy at Homeland Security.

Paul, great to have you back with us.

So, we know that there are some parameters to this transcribed interview set to happen tomorrow. There are some limits on what's going to be asked to avoid any privilege issues. What does that tell you? What is still going to come out of this interview?

PAUL ROSENZWEIG, FORMER SENIOR COUNSEL, WHITEWATER INVESTIGATION: Well, as I understand it, the limits that they've set are on Cipollone's advice directly to President Trump. But that leaves a whole scope of discussion with everybody other than President Trump, whether it's Mark Meadows, or confirming what Cassidy Hutchison has said he said to larger groups of people. He was also said to have been in the room at the time that the Department of Justice attorneys were threatening to resign en masse if the president appointed Jeffrey Clark. So, he's got a lot to say, most particularly with respect to January 6th, Hutchinson says that Cipollone said, we're all going to be charged with a heck of a lot of crimes here, and it would be really interesting to explore why he thought that and what it is that led him to say this to a larger group of people.

HILL: His testimony is, obviously, important to the investigation. How important, though, do you think it is in terms of the American people hearing from him?

ROSENZWEIG: Moderately important. He's not a famous big name. He's big in conservative legal circles. Certainly, I have known of him for many, many years. But in terms of speaking to the undecided public in the middle, I think genuinely people like Miss Hutchinson are probably more likely to breakthrough and create interest than the probably pretty dry and guarded testimony of somebody like Mr. Cipollone.

What is critical, though, about Mr. Cipollone, though, is that his testimony will cement evidence of the seeming criminal intent of many of the actors. If your lawyer says don't do that it's a crime, and you go ahead and do it anyway, that's significant evidence, not just for the January 6th committee, but for potential prosecutions at the Department of Justice or elsewhere.

HILL: Really quickly, because I know we want to get to a couple other topics, do you think he will answer all the questions?

ROSENZWEIG: He'll answer all the questions except the ones about his direct discussions with President Trump. He wouldn't have committed to doing this without having reached a firm limit - boundary limit that everybody will respect.

HILL: Let's move on to Lindsey Graham now, right. I sense that's where you want to go. When we look at his lawyers pushing back, right, on the subpoena from the grand jury in Georgia, not surprising. I would imagine that this was anticipated. But very clear, right, that they believe this is out of bounds, that he should - he should not be -- he certainly should not comply.

Given that they likely anticipated this, how long do you anticipate this legal battle is going to last?

ROSENZWEIG: Well, that's highly dependent upon the courts. I imagine that the Georgia courts will deal with this very quickly. The first place that Graham has to go is to the Georgia judge who issued the subpoena. But then he's -- after he loses in Georgia, he's going to try and take it to the federal courts. And how long it takes there is anybody's guess.

My best estimate, four to six months would be a rough estimate of a reasonable time frame for resolving this, I think.

[09:40:01]

HILL: That is - that is not exactly on fast-forward. But then, in terms of courts, it's maybe not a snail's pace either.

You know, I was struck -- his attorney said -- his attorney said that the subpoena would, quote, erode the constitutional balance of power and the ability of a member of Congress to do their job. This is what they're hanging it on, right, in addition to, you know, a few other expected political statements. Does he have a case there?

ROSENZWEIG: No, not really. I mean, the entire thrust of American history for 250 years is that states are separate sovereigns and that they have independent authority to enforce their own laws, including criminal laws. And it isn't an excuse to excuse the investigation that I'm a member of the federal Congress. In fact, the constitution speaks very clearly about the limited immunities that federal congressmen have. You know, there's the speech and debate clause, they can't be charged with crimes about anything they say in Congress. And there's also another clause that explicitly excludes them from arrest or interference while they're on their way to or from Washington, D.C.

And so the framers actually have thought about this and they've already answered the question and it - they've said, no, you're not excused from answering in a state court for crimes you commit that might violate state - acts you do that might entrench upon state criminal law if you're -- just because you're a congressman. It's kind of -- I wouldn't say frivolous, but it's borderline frivolous.

HILL: Paul Rosenzweig, great to have you with us this morning. Thank you.

ROSENZWEIG: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, WNBA star Brittney Griner, she's back in a Russian court today. Why a call from President Biden to her wife is the target of criticism from the family of another person detained in Russia, Paul Whelan. We'll have more coming up.

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[09:46:25]

HILL: Right now, detained WNBA star Brittney Griner is in Russian court for day two of the trial hearing. President Biden and Vice President Harris spoke with Griner's wife, Cherelle, on the phone Wednesday, reiterating their commitment to Brittney's release.

SCIUTTO: This true frustration from the family of another detainee, including Paul Whelan's family. His sister, Elizabeth, spoke with CNN criticizing Biden's outreach to what she says is some families, not others.

CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood joins us live from the State Department.

So, what do we know about the administration's efforts, not just on the case of Brittney Griner, but other Americans detained in Russia?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, the Biden administration says that they are working on all of these cases of Americans who are wrongfully detained. And we should note that there are some more than 50 Americans around the world who are either wrongfully detained or considered hostages. And the reason, however, that they are getting this heat from these other families, saying, we want the same attention that the Griners are getting is because some of these families have been writing to the Biden administration, writing to President Biden, making calls into the White House, not getting a whole lot of response. And so they aren't saying that they are begrudging the Griners for getting this phone call yesterday from President Biden to Cherelle Griner, who is Brittney Griner's wife, but what they are saying is they want equal attention.

And so that is sort of where the rubber hits the road here. It will be interesting to see if the Biden administration puts President Biden on the phone with some of these other families now that they are so publicly asking for that attention because it's been given to Cherelle Griner.

Now, we should note that Cherelle Griner said that she was incredibly grateful for the call that President Biden and the vice president made to her yesterday. Talked about the fact that she is very confident that they are working as hard as they can to bring home her wife, Brittney Griner, who is facing her second trial on drug charges in Russia today.

But I do want to read to you what the NSE said in response to some of this criticism that they are getting, saying, quote, President Biden has been clear about the need to secure the release of Paul Whelan and Brittney Griner as soon as possible, as well as the release of other U.S. nationals who are wrongfully detained or held hostage in Russia and around the world. So, clearly, this is a space to watch.

But the Biden administration making it very clear yesterday that they are trying to reach out to these families and assure them that it is a whole of government approach to get their families home.

Jim and Erica.

HILL: And that's really - that's really what they're asking for, right? Elizabeth Whalen telling me yesterday, she's not even convinced that hearing from the president would make such a difference, but what she wants to see more than anything is consistent policy across the board.

Kylie, appreciate it. Thank you.

Still to come here, a mysterious roadside attraction in Georgia bombed after a far right former candidate for governor in the state called it satanic and linked it to Democrats. Following all o that? We're live at the site, next.

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[09:53:55]

SCIUTTO: This morning, authorities in Georgia are searching for suspects who bombed a roadside landmark in that state. The pre-dawn explosion, as you can see there, caught on surveillance video.

HILL: The 20-foot Georgia Guidestones have been a source of mystery and intrigue since they first appeared in a field outside Elberton, that's in rural Georgia, in 1980. Now, they've been criticized by some tying it to some bizarre satanic conspiracy theories.

CNN's Nick Valencia is in Elberton this morning.

So, Nick, what is going on here?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is -- it is so bizarre. And it is definitely hard to follow. But this site here has been no shortage - there's been no shortage of conspiracy theories. This has been a fodder for far-right groups who have really sunk their teeth into the mystery surrounding the Georgia Guidestones. No one knows who paid for them. No one knows who put them up. No one knows who authored the inscriptions that were carved into the pillars that were standing here since 1980. And those inscriptions seemed to call for conservation of mankind, they appeared to call for population control, asking for people to have harmony with nature and internationalism.

[09:55:04]

And it was recently that these conspiracy theories were given new life during the Georgia Republican primary for governor where a fringe Republican candidate campaigned on the promise that she would tear these down.

Listen to what she had to say on the social - on her social media after news of the explosion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we don't call things out, and we don't acknowledge them and we don't take authority and take dominion over who Gog's given us, then we are no better than the evil ones that put it up.

It's a battle far greater than what we see in the natural. It is a war between good and evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: It's worth noting that Kandiss Taylor garnered just 3 percent of the vote during that primary. But look at her tweet here, what she had to say about the Guidestones, saying that she was the only candidate bold enough to stand up to the Luciferian cabal, asking for Georgians to elect her governor to end the satanic regime, bring it to its knee, and demolish the Georgi Guidestones.

Authorities have not made that jump and tied Taylor to this. Right now they don't know who's responsible for this or why. But surveillance video captured the explosion shortly before 4:00 a.m. yesterday morning. There were no injuries. But that blast was strong enough to injure - or to damage one of the pillars. They had to demolish the rest of the pillars because of a safety concern. You can see investigators here are on the scene behind me still cleaning up the piece and asking for the public's help in solving who bombed this site.

Jim. Erica.

SCIUTTO: A country ripe for conspiracy theories these days.

Nick Valencia, thanks so much.

Coming up next hour, more on the news from London. The British prime minister has resigned. We're going to be live once again outside Number 10 Downing Street. That's coming up.

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