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CNN International: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson Resigns. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired July 07, 2022 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:00]
NILE GARDINER, DIRECTOR, MARGARET THATCHER CENTER FOR FREEDOM: That is a good point. I think Boris Johnson has been far more defiant. And I think his exit is quite different in many respects of that of Margaret Thatcher. Certainly you know Boris is willing to stay in office until October.
I'm told the first week of October will be the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham. And it remains to be seen, of course, whether you know Boris will be sort of forced out earlier.
And there is a lot of turmoil in London today, with the wave of continuing resignations that are a raft of new appointments and so he will be under intense pressure, of course, to depart earlier, I think.
And without doubt, I think the next few weeks are going to be an extraordinary time in British politics. But you have to say as well though that with regard to the Conservative Party, this moment, it's important that the party does not form some kind of circular firing squad, which gives an opportunity to the Left to see the early general election.
And the Left, of course, is divided over the departure of Boris and they will see this as an opportunity and to aim for an early general election and a retake of power. And of, course there are many within the neighbor liberal parties and, of course, the Scottish nationalists, who will seek to try and reverse Brexit.
That is a real danger for the United Kingdom. The Conservatives need to be aware I think, of the huge stakes that will unfold here. And the Left will see this as an opportunity I think to try and retake power and despite what Keir Starmer says, there are many in the Labour Party who would like to reverse Brexit.
That would be in my view, fundamentally undemocratic and against the wishes of the people. But there are many figures within Labour who would like to do that. And the Conservatives have to be careful not to give the initiative to the Left, who seek to overturn the democratic will that was expressed in the 2016 referendum.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: It was said the other day, he said he accepts the outcome of that referendum and he has certainly, today even, called for a general election. We will see how that side plays out as well. Nile, thank you very much indeed for joining us in Washington.
One chapter of British politics is about to end and another will begin. Inevitably, any moment now, prime minister Boris Johnson, we are told, will emerge from 10 Downing Street and tell the world that he is resigning.
It comes after more than 50 members of his own government abandoned him and urged him to step down. Mr. Johnson's tenure has been plagued by scandal but he vowed to fight on until this morning.
Earlier, British Labour Party leader Keir Starmer spoke and he outlined his reaction to the news that Boris would resign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUESTION: Mr. Starmer, what is your feeling about the events unfolding?
KEIR STARMER, U.K. LABOUR LEADER: He needs to go completely. None of this nonsense about clinging on for a few months. He has inflicted lies, fraud and chaos in the country.
And you know, we are stuck with a government which is not functioning in the middle of a cost of living crisis. And all of those would have been properly enough should be utterly ashamed of themselves. We have had 12 years of a stagnant economy. 12 years of broken public services.
Twelve years of empty promises, enough is enough. And the change we need is not the change at the top of the Tory Party. It is much more fundamental now. We need to change the government and a fresh start for Britain.
QUESTION: It doesn't look like you will get a general election if he just swaps leaders.
STARMER: He needs to, go he cannot cling on in this way. His own party have finally concluded that he is unfit to be prime minister. They can't have inflicting on the country for the next few months.
It is obvious he is unfit to be prime minister, that has been blindly obvious for a very, very long time. And if they don't get rid of him, then Labour will step up in the national interest and bring a vote of no confidence because we cannot go on with this prime minister, clinging on for months and months to come.
QUESTION: Wouldn't that unite the Conservative Party?
STARMER: I don't think anything will unite this Conservative Party. They're tearing each other apart. And what we have got in the middle of a cost of living crisis is a government that cannot function.
That is why I say he cannot cling on now. They have declared him unfit to be prime minister. They cannot inflict him on the country for the next few months. If they don't get rid of him we will bring that vote of no confidence
in the national interest because we can't go on with this broken government led by this discredited prime minister.
QUESTION: Boris Johnson in some ways was your biggest asset if you were going to go to the country.
When you lose him, you will have more of a problem, won't you?
STARMER: Look, the Conservative Party's been in power for 12 years, 12 years of stagnant economy, 12 years of broken public services, 12 years of empty promises.
[07:05:00]
STARMER: We need a fresh start and that's why I say changing the person at the top of the Conservative Party is not the fundamental change that we need. We need to change the government. We need a fresh start for our country.
QUESTION: But it doesn't look like you will get the general election you would want now, does it?
STARMER: Well, we need fundamental -- the country is crying out for change. We have been stuck with a government that has not been functioning in the middle of a cost of living crisis.
And now changing the person at the top of the Conservative Party is not going to make any difference whatsoever. People want change, a fresh start for Britain. And that means we need a change of government. We need a Labour government.
QUESTION: Is there nobody that you would rate as a good opponent?
Somebody who will be in against you?
STARMER: For me, this is not a question about who leads the Conservative Party. It's much more fundamental than that. They have been in power for 12 years of empty promises, broken promises, a stagnant economy, wages very, very low, inflation and prices through the roof.
We need fundamental change. We need a fresh start for Britain. We need a change of government. We need a Labour government.
QUESTION: Lastly, I just want to ask you, given what you say about the government, you haven't cut through as you might want to.
How can you do something about that now?
STARMER: We have come from a general election in 2019 where we did very badly. Two local elections this year where we made considerable ground and then a by-election two weeks ago today with a huge swing to the Labour Party.
So we are on track and that is why we say, the change we need is a change of government, a Labour government. We are ready for that.
QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. Starmer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: The opposition leader speaking a short while ago, calling for another general election or a general election. While he is doing that, I got an email from Downing Street, saying Boris Johnson has appointed Kit Morehouse to the cabinet as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
He is actually carrying on as business as usual, even though we know he will resign, which is extraordinary.
Let's speak to Nina though about that Keir Starmer interview.
He is pushing for this election. This is the last thing isn't it Conservatives want or will allow, they are in a stronger position in Parliament at the moment. The party is in a terrible state and, frankly, they will lose seats and that is the feeling at least.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Yes that's, right, particularly those vulnerable seats, part of the red wall, if you like, they captured from Labour in sort of traditional blue-collar heartlands, particularly in the north of the U.K. where the economic benefits and the kind of profligacy that you are seeing in the south around London, it really hasn't trickled through.
And it was supposed to be a part of Boris Johnson's whole leveling up agenda, spending money in parts of the country that have been forgotten, that have been buffeted by years of Tory legacies of austerity, even fractious policies to try and dismantle certain key industries in parts of the U.K.
It is a really sore point that has never really been dealt with. And many of those seats swung to Conservative in grand fashion back in 2019. Part of the big majority that Boris Johnson managed to deliver, that hadn't been seen in generations, was due to the fact that these people were galvanized by one subject: Brexit.
Many of them voted Brexit because they felt that they hadn't, reaped the benefits of globalization and big trade deals, say for instance, with the European Union. But now that, obviously the legacy of Brexit is pretty patchy and, obviously, there is a big question mark over trust in Boris Johnson's ability to tell the truth over all of these issues, including Partygate, lots of people have turned against him.
And that is the fertile ground that Keir Starmer is referring to. I will point out, also although Keir Starmer during his term, as the helm of the Labour Party has done a good job in trying to steal this party toward the center ground, after the far-left policies of Jeremy Corbyn, also anti-Semitism allegations and so on and so forth.
He's tackled a lot of, that but he has been criticized though for not having a vision, not having a vision on how to steer the economy back into healthy ground. We are right on the precipice of a recession here.
The U.K. is the sixth largest economy in the world worth about $2.5 trillion to nearly $3 trillion but it is going in reverse gear and just today, the office of the budget responsibility which is the watchdog, the financial watchdog that oversees the financial planning of the government, has said that tax cuts, forget, it take them off the cards because the country just cannot afford. It
So whether it is Keir Starmer or whoever will be the next Conservative prime minister financially and fiscally that blocked into an alleyway. So what people want to hear from Keir Starmer is a bit more concrete policies over how actually a Labour government would deliver a different prognosis for the electorate going forward.
[07:10:00]
FOSTER: OK, Nina.
Bianca is here and Sebastian Payne, a very well respected, lovely correspondent saying the prime minister is going to speak in 20 minutes.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: That's what we are hearing, at 12:30.
And the big question is what will he, say what will the tone be?
Will he be a man who's remotely contrite, recognizing he's lost the confidence of his party through a series of unforced errors. He performed a historic election victor to this situation, a prime minister with an unprecedented cascade of resignations, some of his own loyalists in some cases.
And that is what we really need to look out, for and also what he is indicating about the months to come.
Is this somebody who appears confident and likely wants to fill the role of prime minister to the largest extent until the day he walks out of that building?
Or is he somebody who will recognize that his time is done, someone else will come next and he needs to be respectful of that transition period?
FOSTER: I'm fascinated he has been appointed cabinet ministers --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- that has just come in on email. But also, the fact that they accepted those positions.
Is that because he is saying, I want to make the appointment and it's agreed to this?
What is going on?
NOBILO: I'd love to be in all of these conversations.
Did they accept those positions based on what he said?
We don't know yet because we haven't heard him speak.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- suggesting he will stay in?
NOBILO: And these are people who would naturally be unwilling to join under new circumstances, perhaps the fact that they are resigning, I make that commitment, they will be a leadership contest. Join in the government in the meantime. We need to keep going for the country. Maybe he said that.
Or maybe he convinced them otherwise and said this is my last-ditch attempt at a legacy. I am full of energy, I want to make an impact in these few months and come along with me. We won't know until we hear that speech.
FOSTER: We are expecting Boris Johnson to speak in the next half hour, within the half hour. Obviously the podium will come out first and that will be a massive race on Twitter to mention it first. And we are actually will see it live, here on television.
And then he will give his speech and we don't know what is in it. We have not been given any guidance whatsoever.
I guess he will be writing to the last second.
NOBILO: Exactly, he will be.
FOSTER: -- you think?
NOBILO: Possibly. He does do that. I just cannot wait to see his tone. What we have noticed over the last few weeks, after the confidence vote, when you and I were reporting, yesterday, even, when he is under the most political threat, when he is in dire peril, in terms of his, career he comes alive.
He has got this energy and it's like he gets fired up with fight and we see a different Johnson than we often see, we know, as is often stated by this (INAUDIBLE), he doesn't like the attention to detail.
There are elements of the office of prime minister which bore him. And he is not enthusiastic about. That comes across sometimes to the MPs and certain engagements that he has. He doesn't really have a full grasp of the brief and is criticized for being a bit flippant.
But that is not the case when he knows that his legacy is at stake. So we'll be seeing, prime minister Boris Johnson's A game today.
FOSTER: We have never seen him this weaker, have we?
He has accepted that he will resign. And in the past he has always battled through it. And I spoke a short while ago to a member of Parliament. And I asked
him how this has been going for him. That was my question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BAKER, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, it's a very sad day today, I helped Boris Johnson become prime minister. Helped to get his majority. It's been a time of crisis for several years so it's a very sad day. But honestly I am relieved, he has made the right decision.
FOSTER: What about a caretaker prime minister, who should that be?
BAKER: Oh, it should be Dominic Raab's, he's the deputy prime minister.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Should it be Boris Johnson?
BAKER: So I'm absolutely determined that we must not prolong this crisis. If it is agreed, within government that Johnson should continue as caretaker, that is fine with, me because we just need to end the crisis, get into a leadership contest, start fresh in September.
But from my preference, Dominic would step up. I don't think it is in Boris' interest now.
FOSTER: What are your colleagues saying about that?
BAKER: This morning, I've spent my time satisfying interviewers.
(CROSSTALK)
BAKER: (INAUDIBLE) I hope that your viewers will understand I that I need to get back in Parliament.
FOSTER: It is likely he will go back out and say I'm going today?
BAKER: I don't think it is very likely. My absolute priority right now is the political stability of the United Kingdom. If that means Boris continuing as caretaker, that is fine.
But whether it is Boris or Dominic, what we need is a policy of continuity now and to focus on a leadership change.
FOSTER: If it is not Boris, is the general agreement it should be Dominic Raab?
BAKER: I think it's too early to say. We need to talk about that today. But he is after all the deputy prime minister.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: It's his job.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: I'm only asking because Graham Brady has been suggested as well as the chairman of the backbench committee.
[07:15:00]
BAKER: Would not normally be the case that the 1922 chairman would take it on.
But Dominic Raab may wish to run for the leadership. But if I was in Dominic Raab's shoes, I would seek to deputize.
FOSTER: Would that discount him from running for the leadership?
(CROSSTALK)
BAKER: It would.
FOSTER: -- he's the caretaker.
So that makes it more complicated --
BAKER: I'm afraid it does. But let's be clear about this. This is something I've mentioned and I believe in it. I want us to have political stability. If that means Boris staying, that's fine.
FOSTER: What do you think he is going to say in his speech?
BAKER: Well, I don't know. But I think he needs to rescue his legacy. I am very, very clear that Boris Johnson rescued this country from a hideous political crisis in 2019. We tested our own Constitution almost to disruption. It almost destroyed the Conservative Party, almost ushered in a hard left Labour government that would have destroyed this country for generations. And Boris rescued us from all of that.
FOSTER: He had this fantastic victory in the general election.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: But at the same time, he has arguably destroyed it now to the point where, if there is an election now, none of your party want one, because you know you will lose seats because he has been a disaster in recent months for the party.
BAKER: Yes, but let us just think about what people need in the U.K. They need good quality government, a choice of good quality government. We are in an extraordinary position right now. Clearly the Conservative Party is not forming a good government. But the Labour Party is in a position where Keir Starmer might have to resign.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Exactly, there's a (INAUDIBLE) they're calling it.
BAKER: Yes -- FOSTER: -- he was seen drinking beer.
(CROSSTALK)
BAKER: He said he would resign if he's fined but we could not possibly go into an election with neither party well led.
FOSTER: In terms of the mechanics on voting, could you explain how quickly that could happen, how that works?
BAKER: Whether or not there's to be a caretaker is something that will be decided in government in the next few hours. But the mechanism is that we need to have elections amongst Conservative Party for the next leader and that could happen in the next two weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Let's bring in Bianca Nobilo, who is here, hanging off the end of her stool.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
FOSTER: He is talking to lots of backbenchers about the caretaker thing.
I gave him examples but no one has really gotten on service. This has never been done before.
There's got to be a system in place. They'll have to vote for someone presumably a group of Conservatives who don't agree on who it should be.
How does it even work?
NOBILO: It's confusing because the British constitution as we know is uncodified an those who said it's a good, thing say that makes it flexible. But it makes it confusing in situations like this.
That's because there's no official position of an interim prime minister. Typically, like David Cameron, Theresa May, when you resign, you stay on until your successor is found.
But these circumstances are different, nobody doubted the integrity or the political disruption that Cameron or May could cause in that interim. So it was fine for them to stay on.
The other alternative would, be perhaps a deputy prime minister, Dominic Raab, as he stepped in for Johnson when he was hospitalized with COVID-19. He could step in as an interim prime minister.
FOSTER: That would require Boris now to say I'm resigning as of today. And Raab would automatically --
(CROSSTALK) NOBILO: -- I don't think that's likely. And also in theory, whoever would fill that role would probably rule them out of a leadership contest. Just because of the way that things, work.
And again, I think it's unlikely to find someone that you want to do anyway. The other option, of course, is to, force him out because the party feel like they cannot continue to trust his agenda in the meantime.
They feel like he'll put his successor in a very difficult position. And I don't, know there might be some wranglings behind the scenes. They may try to orchestrate somebody else to take over.
But that is why everybody is so on the edge of their stools, seats, and gripped by what might happen next, because nobody knows. As we said earlier, Boris Johnson has never behaved in such an unpredictable manner as he has --
FOSTER: No, and the system allows that. In America, you've got a system where everything is codified and it's pretty clear what happens and who steps in when.
NOBILO: Also we should mention, this is not a presidential system. People don't vote for Boris Johnson, they vote for the party. That means when he is speaking about his mandate to continue it seems a lot more hollow because nobody technically voted for him indirectly here.
FOSTER: Which is what so infuriated MPs I've been speaking to today because he keeps talking about the mandate he has to push through his policy. That's exactly the, point it's not a presidential system. But it does indicate how he actually views it or his role as more of a presidential role.
NOBILO: Back in the day, he was immensely more popular than his party. Now the reverse is true.
FOSTER: OK.
Nic Robertson there in Downing Street, we hear in 10 minutes' time, he is coming out. He's not always on time is he but that is the briefing we are getting. So it feels imminent and there's a helicopter above me which would suggest the same.
[07:20:00]
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What I can tell you from down, here they're starting to roll out the cables and just sort of pan over slightly to the right here, you can see the speakers have been put out, so that we can all hear the prime minister.
It's been happening, it's in process and, no podium. But that could be brought out in short order. The audio system seems to be pretty much in place now. So the prime minister could make it as expected, half past 12 here. That would be 10 minutes from now.
Sounds like it'll have some competition from all of the people that are gathered at the end of Downing Street here, behind the big 45 gates. Somebody is playing a music system that is very, loud. You might be able to hear it. It might have been down where you were earlier. We heard it around here yesterday.
But the prime minister is not going to get an easy go of it from his competition at the end of the street. What we are expecting is for the prime minister to come out, burnish his credentials and talk about where he has succeeded.
We have talked in the past 24 hours about the number of people who resigned and what we've seen at the moment is what is traditional speeches by the prime minister, we are seeing a number of people coming out of their office, coming out of Number 11 next door to Downing Street, to be able to watch directly.
Oftentimes these are people who work inside Number 10, inside Number 11 in the chancellor's office, will come out and watch their boss give a resignation speech. So everything is falling into place now, just the podium and the prime minister and, of course, the content of his speech that we are waiting for at the moment.
FOSTER: Yes, the primary, thing everyone is focused on right now, we will come back to the legacy. Obviously there is a legacy that you can absolutely argue for. But this idea of what happens as of tomorrow, will he be this interim prime minister as is the form?
Or will somebody else?
A suggestion to me, is that he announced his deal he's made in the background. He announces that he is going to resign. That would mean that his deputy, Dominic Raab, would automatically take over.
I mean you are not getting any briefing I'm sure at the moment.
But what do you think will be the mechanics here?
How do you see it playing out, never having had this experience before?
ROBERTSON: Yes, there are a number of mechanics. There is the political, the running of government, the running of the country, that takes place and that would be quite as simple as the prime minister.
There goes the podium, so you know we are getting closer now. The podium is being laid, out the photographers here are shouting at the man moving the podiums where they want it.
And there's a whole -- looking at three or four layers of photographers over here. They're all shouting at the man with the podium to try and maneuver it where they feel that they can get the best photograph of the prime minister at the podium with the Number 10 door behind him.
It's very rowdy and chaotic down here, fluid, as you've been saying. But behind the scenes, so the transition that you are talking about, if it goes as you just outlined, the prime minister resigns, the deputy prime minister Dominic Raab steps in and takes over. The political mechanics could be relatively straightforward.
A huge amount for the incoming transitional caretaker prime minister. We are seeing another group of government officials it appears, walking up the street from this end. And again, typical in these circumstances. People working directly around Number 10 will come out, get an opportunity to watch the resignation speech.
But behind the scenes, chaotic. The prime minister will have a certain period of time to move his belongings out of his apartment here. And, of course, his apartment was a part of his legacy, literally of -- part of his character flaws, if you can put it that way, whereby he had a refit to that residence.
The refit was way over budget, it was financed by somebody in the party. The prime minister denied knowing about how it was financed. And it really just left another cloud of speculation over the prime minister's ability to come clean with the people around him.
And with the country. So -- that mechanic of moving out will happen more slowly behind the scenes. We certainly won't see that. But to your point, running the actual government if it's done smoothly, ,if it's a handover to the deputy prime minister, should be relatively straightforward.
But again, Max, everything about Boris Johnson's leadership so far has been anything but straightforward.
[07:25:00]
ROBERTSON: And it would be foolish to stand here and try and predict how it will look and how it will feel. Prime ministers forced out of office here before have been quite emotional. I think we can expect Boris to use his rhetoric to really communicate his emotion about this today.
FOSTER: OK, Nic, thank you.
With me is someone who knows Boris Johnson very closely, professionally if not personally, the leader of the Liberal Democrats.
There has been so much anger, frustration, so much vitriol frankly of the last 24 hours. This is Boris Johnson's moment isn't it to be heard.
Will you give in this moment?
ED DAVEY, BRITISH LIBERAL DEMOCRAT LEADER: Well, I hope he apologizes. Frankly it's been a bit of a national embarrassment with him as prime minister, to have the first ever prime minister to break the law while in office, to lie.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- lockdown.
DAVEY: He tells untruths and lies (INAUDIBLE) box in Parliament on an industrial scale. And I have been calling on (INAUDIBLE) to do their patriotic duty, to get rid of him for months. So I am not going to (INAUDIBLE). I think it's right that he needs to go.
But he should go with an apology and we need to restore national pride. But he has undermined our institutions and attacked the judiciary. He has undermine parliamentary democracy.
And he -- I know, we have an American audience, who is almost Trumplike, dare I say, trying to cling on to power, claim a personal mandate. He does not have a personal mandate.
FOSTER: He's not a president.
DAVEY: It's not a presidential, system it's a (INAUDIBLE) democracy. That's just another example of how he has undermined the British sense of identity.
FOSTER: It just enough for, you would you share the Labour leader's view that it should be a general election and not a Conservative Party election?
DAVEY: Yes I, do let's give the party a chance to choose a new leader. Let's be generous, give them that. I think there should be a general election. It's not just about Boris. It's about the whole Conservative Party.
We are (INAUDIBLE). They have all been responsible, both for putting him there, keeping him there, propping him up and not delivering the policies that the British people need. It has been really quite shocking how, you, know my constituents, people across the country feel really let down by the Conservative Party.
And feel that, in a time of real crisis, domestic crisis, with the cost of living, global security crisis, what is happening in Ukraine, many crises around the world, we have a government that is just not competent.
FOSTER: He will come out; he will talk about legacy, he's got legitimate things to talk about. I know you were pro Brexit but he was the leader of that campaign here. He achieved. It that was his big policy.
You will then argue that that allowed him to be ahead of vaccination program and intervene and help with Ukraine, two things that he would see as big parts of his legacy.
Would you give him that or not?
DAVEY: Well, those things, in terms of Brexit, he delivered that but he delivered it in a dreadful way. That is why (INAUDIBLE) voted against the Brexit, deal the trade deal is so bad. He's created more red tape around our ex borders than anything in history.
So British economy is in a very poor state, where Brits will be the lowest growth in the OECD, only slightly higher than Russia who have sanctions. So our economy is in a disaster state. That is Boris Johnson's legacy.
And when it comes to the vaccine, I think he should have some humility. It was the scientists and the medical experts.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- buying them early ahead of the E.U.?
DAVEY: Frankly, if you look at what is happening with statistics, many European countries have got a higher vaccination rate than the U.K. So he actually has not really delivered as well as other European countries have.
We speak, just to remind you, we have the podium there in front of 10 Downing Street, back to where Boris Johnson will come out and announce his resignation, which is extraordinary because of the way that it played out.
We are talking earlier with people who were involved in the Thatcher resignation, drawing comparisons. But actually very different because Margaret Thatcher's cabinet went to her, didn't they, and said you have to go and she left.
Boris Johnson did not do that last night. It's said he held on until the morning, when he was ultimately pushed out. So this is uncharted territory and we still don't know how he will handle this interim period until a new leader comes in.
DAVEY: I don't think he should be the caretaker prime minister, he's never cared about anything in his life. So it's ludicrous to have a say in the cause.
If he comes to the House of Commons, i will have a vote and I will vote against him being the caretaker prime minister. He will make his speech and make his claims but I think this is a day that should have come many months ago. Wee need a strong interim government.
[07:30:00]
DAVEY: He should not be in it. And the Conservatives should try and steady the ship of state. We have got such a crisis in our country caused by this man. And you know you made an analogy with Ms. Thatcher.
I don't agree with what Ms. Thatcher did. But she was a decent prime minister who put a national interest first. She had decency about her even if I disagreed with some of her policies.
And I think --
FOSTER: But he feels he has done the same. He keeps talking about his mandate and he's very clear about what he was --
(CROSSTALK)
DAVEY: I don't think Ms. Thatcher lied to the department. I don't think that she broke laws. He did. And I think you know, she is from another party and I do not agree with her on lots of things --
(CROSSTALK)
DAVEY: -- all I am saying is, in comparison to him, I think she had the national interest at heart. He has his own personal issues at heart. And that is why I think his place in history will be a very bad one, where Ms. Thatcher's place (INAUDIBLE) is one that people talk about.
FOSTER: I spoke to one MP who was a minister until yesterday. And he said he finally resigned and perhaps should have done it sooner but he wanted to be loyal to his leader. That was his fear.
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, everybody. Good afternoon. Thank you. Thank you.
It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new prime minister and I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week.
And I have today appointed a Cabinet to serve -- as I will -- until a new leader is in place.
So I want to say to the millions of people who voted for us in 2019, many of them voting Conservative for the first time. Thank you for that incredible mandate -- the biggest Conservative majority since 1987, the biggest share of a vote since 1979.
And the reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so but because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019.
And of course, I'm immensely proud of the achievements of this government -- from getting Brexit done to settling our relations with the continent for over half a century, reclaiming the power for this country to make its own laws in Parliament, getting us all through the pandemic, delivering the fastest vaccine rollout in Europe, the fastest exit from lockdown and in the last few months, leading the West in standing up to Putin's aggression in Ukraine.
And let me say now, to the people of Ukraine, that I know that we in the U.K. will continue to back your fight for freedom for as long as it takes.
And at the same time in this country, we've been pushing forward a vast program of investment in infrastructure, in skills and technology -- the biggest in a century. Because if I had one insight into human beings, it is that genius and talent and enthusiasm and imagination are evenly distributed throughout the population. But opportunity is not. And that's why we must keep leveling up, keep unleashing the potential in every part of United Kingdom. And if we can do that, in this country, we will be the most prosperous in Europe. And in the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we're delivering so much, when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls -- even in midterm after quite a few months and pretty relentless sledging -- and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.
I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course, it's painful, not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself. But as we've seen in Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful when the herd moves, it moves.
And my friends in politics, no one is remotely indispensable and our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader, equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times.
[07:35:00]
JOHNSON: Not just helping families to get through it but changing and improving the way we do things -- cutting burdens on businesses and families and yes, cutting taxes, because that is the way to generate the growth and the income we need to pay for great public services.
And to that new leader, I say wherever he or she may be, I say I will give you as much support as I can. And to you, the British public -- I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few will also be disappointed. And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world. But theme's the breaks.
I want to thank Carrie and our children to all members of my family who have had to put up with so much for so long. I want to thank the peerless British civil service for all the help and support that you have given our police, our emergency services and of course, our fantastic NHS who at critical moment helped to extend my own period in office, as well as our armed services and our agencies that are so admired around the world and our indefatigable Conservative party members and supporters whose selfless campaigning makes our democracy possible.
I want to thank the wonderful staff here at Chequers -- to here at Number 10 -- and, of course, at Chequers and our fantastic prop force detectives, the one group by the way, who never leak.
Above all, I want to thank you, the British public, for the immense privilege that you have given me. And I want you to know that from now on, until the new prime minister is in place, your interests will be served and the government of the country will be carried on.
Being Prime Minister is an education in itself. I've traveled to every part of the United Kingdom and in addition to the beauty of our natural world, I find so many people possessed of such boundless British originality and so willing to tackle old problems in new ways, that I know that even if things can sometimes seem dark now, our future together is golden.
Thank you all very much. Thank you.
FOSTER: Boris Johnson, officially confirming that he is resigning against his wishes. But he accepts that he is going to go. It took a long time to get there, talking about the mandate he received personally, frankly, at the last election. That is an issue that a lot of people have brought up.
It was not his mandate; it was a mandate for the Conservative Party. But there you are, typically bombastic and confident and bullish performance from Boris Johnson on this momentum day. Crucially, he says he will serve until a new leader is elected.
So he is fighting this idea, there might be another caretaker leader in the interim. There will be a timetable for the new leader's election next week, we are told by Boris Johnson. Ed Davey, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, watching.
What did you think?
DAVEY: Well, he made the best case he could but it was not good enough. I don't think he should stay on as caretaker prime minister. I don't think he has the confidence of his own party, of Parliament or the country.
And if we are going to restore national pride and restore the strength of our institutions, it's better that he goes today. And we could carry on government quite happy as the deputy prime minister or cabinet minister until a new leader to the party is elected. And I am sorry he has not chosen that. He has to continue on --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: How would you help push that?
Obviously it's a Conservative Party issue.
DAVEY: There's likely I think to be a vote for no confidence in the House of Commons. I cannot guarantee that but I think there very may well be.
FOSTER: Who for that?
DAVEY: Well, I believe the opposition, Keir Starmer, in the Labour Party, he has a duty --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: You would support him for that?
DAVEY: Well, (INAUDIBLE) party accept government. But whether they're successful, rally around, we have yet to see because it's clear to me that some Conservatives are not happy with him staying on as caretaker.
FOSTER: So what you're suggesting is there will be a vote of confidence in the government. And if they lose that, that will trigger an election, a general election.
DAVEY: Well, they needn't actually. There could be another prime minister appointed who wasn't Boris Johnson.
FOSTER: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Do you think you would have enough Conservative MPs to support you on that?
[07:40:00]
DAVEY: I don't know. Probably not. But you asked the question, do I think he should be the caretaker prime minister. I absolutely do not think he should be.
What are the ways to make sure he doesn't?
The Conservative Party really have it in their gift. And I'm surprised, (INAUDIBLE).
FOSTER: OK. Thank you very much.
That momentous speech from Boris Johnson, who is still prime minister, until a new one is elected. But he's definitely confirmed that he's on his way out.
Bianca was listening to this as well.
It was quite a matter of fact speech really. We didn't have all these big thoughts about his legacy that we were expecting. A long list of facts, talking about the great things he did achieve in terms of election results and very clear he's got more to achieve in this interim role.
NOBILO: It was a curiously magnanimous speech from the prime minister and actually lacking his usual rhetorical flourishes, bombast, even the way that he delivered it was unlike himself.
And it's interesting because one of the lines he said was being prime minister is an education. And I wondered if it has finally sunk in, the unforced errors that have caused him to go from being an election winner of historic proportion, the biggest Conservative majority since 1987, to the situation, where he's being pushed out by his own.
Perhaps he has absorbed that. We saw a shift in tone and what that suggested is he probably will approach the next few months perhaps in a more traditional way. Certainly nothing in the speech alone to suggest that he would plow on with a policy agenda which would be difficult for the successor if they disagreed to reverse from.
But we have to wait and see too how that materializes.
FOSTER: Is he saying, do you think it's been agreed, he's been allowed to stay on a this interim leader until a new leader is elected?
Or is he challenging that?
Will there be more debate about this?
NOBILO: I do wonder, listening to that speech, you could imagine a scenario whereby as a condition, remaining as prime minister over the next months, when there was concern about whether or not he'd dig his heels in and try and pursue his own agenda, that he seemed magnanimous and willing to focus on the priorities of the country, get the government functioning, fully respecting the fact that a new leader will take over.
That's what he said straight out of the gate. I recognize that now the country want a new leader to continue. Perhaps the way he delivered that was a signal those concerned about the next few months, saying you have nothing to worry about.
Leave me in the post. I want to be here as long as I can but I'm not going to make things difficult in between.
FOSTER: (INAUDIBLE) my chat with Ed Davey, there may still be a no confidence vote within that party in him to get him out as that leader until the new one is elected.
There could also be a no confidence vote in Parliament tabled by the opposition leader, which Davey would support as well. But we're wondering if the numbers are there for that.
NOBILO: Those are two interesting options. In terms of the no confidence vote on the prime minister, I think the Conservative Party is very conscious of not wanting to seem fratricidal. I think given the tone of the speech just now I'd be quite surprised if there was going to be a no confidence vote to push him out.
But the '22 committee is meeting to potentially change its rules early next week. But it may see that it's not appropriate to do that right now. The other thing which Ed Davey said, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, which I thought was interesting, the prospect of a no confidence vote in the government, which would be tabled by the opposition leader, Keir Starmer.
That is something that could've happened over the past few months. And perhaps many have wondered why it has not been.
I think now, if that was tabled, it is likely the government would still survive it. That is because nothing unites a party like a confidence vote in it, especially as Johnson has declared he will resign.
It is unlikely they need another mechanism to thrust him out, again I say with the caveat that he does nothing in between now and next week that makes his MPs extremely nervous and feel more impatient to get somebody else behind that door on 10 Downing Street.
FOSTER: How will we look back on Boris Johnson's period in office? We were talking earlier about his legacy. But you know, this is party of his legacy, how he handled the final few days.
[07:45:00]
FOSTER: There will be some respect for the way he stuck it through and insisted on staying as long as possible. Also be those who feel he's done enormous damage, not just of the Conservative Party but to the government and the wider interests of the nation.
NOBILO: Well, what is beyond all of that, whether you are Boris Johnson's supporter or his harshest critic is that he has had an explosive and controversial and personality driven political career. That has also exemplified his time as prime minister.
He won't be able to get away from the scandal that his government or himself has suffered when we're looking at his legacy but he and his supporters will certainly emphasize, that election victory in 2019, sending a message that the Conservatives can gain parts of the country that they haven't been able to before and appeal to more urban Brexit leaning voters in the north.
That was a huge victory for the party. Brexit, for many Conservatives, the fact that Boris Johnson came in, through controversial means, wanting to probe Parliament, threatening to break international law. He has managed to achieve, Brexit.
So that is something that those who wanted that will be pleased about and will consider it a positive in his legacy. Also the prime minister was keen to emphasize the role that the government played in the COVID-19 pandemic, the fact that they were a country that was ahead in the vaccine rollouts, a country that went out of lockdown on the earlier side.
These are all things which his supporters will keen to emphasize but I think his demise has monopolized so much attention and for so long it has not been about policy, it's been about personality with the exception perhaps of his pivotal role in Ukraine, in creating a European consensus over recent months.
That will also be an important part of his legacy, one which he has certainly been keen to emphasize himself over the past few months -- Max.
FOSTER: Do you think he has damaged trust and faith in national institutions the way he has clearly been inconsistent and he's been accused of lying. People don't like using this word but when Sajid Javid stood up in Parliament, he talked about being told to go out with a message in front of the cameras, which turned out to be untrue.
Happened one too many times. We have heard so many of these sorts of stories and people have lost respect in government because of Boris Johnson, in a similar way that Donald Trump damaged trust in the White House.
But these are the things that I am being, told I don't know how long that feeling will last.
You think damage has been done to the system?
NOBILO: As we, know politicians along with journalists are some of the lowest regarded professions that exists according to all public polls and British parliamentarians are never usually the public's favorite people.
However, those I've spoken to or just people on the street, voters, that bears out those conversations. There has been a huge erosion in trust between the public and Parliament, specifically with the prime minister. That has all been exacerbated by the Partygate scandal, the hypocrisy that people felt, the visceral pain that they felt when the prime minister was revealed to have not just attended but known about parties that took place within Downing Street, when people's relatives were dying alone, when they could not visit them.
And that has left an indelible imprint in people's regard for those who govern them and their willingness to follow their rules in the future.
But who, knows as always, with a new leader there is often cause for optimism and green shoots that might, some of those negative impacts may well recover. That's certainly how the Conservative Party wants to see, this.
They want to see a new leader as a fresh start. But Boris Johnson, I don't think anybody could possibly argue that he has had a positive impact on the democratic process, on trust in government, in trust in public officials. And that he really can't escape.
FOSTER: We should talk about a possible replacement, it's a really tough job isn't?
It no expert, no MPs, have managed to tell me who the likely runners and riders are. Let's bring up our best suggestions. Based on people, experts we are talking about today.
Everybody still talking about Rishi Sunak. Quite a bit of a blip, let's call it that, early in the year. He does seem like the most respected and high-profile figure in that list of people in front of us.
NOBILO: What is important to remind viewers, how this leadership contest would work. To begin with, the candidates put themselves forward, backed by other Conservative MPs, it's important, considering he might get through. And then they are whittled down until only two candidates remain.
[07:50:00]
NOBILO: And then those two candidates are presented to the Conservative Party membership. That numbers around 200,000. So key is what the Conservative Party membership thanks.
At the moment, I've been saying the same for a while, the dark horse of the Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, is leading those polls. Ben Wallace is a figure who is more of an, apolitical preacher compared to a lot of others in cabinet and the Conservative Party.
He is considered to have handled the crisis with Ukraine with aplomb. When the fall of Kabul happened in Afghanistan, the prime minister, the foreign secretary were heavily criticized for being on holiday or ignoring the issue, Ben Wallace was in, there, ministry of Defence hitting the phones, trying to extract, Brits trying to help the situation and was lauded for doing that.
And he is a figure that will require others to champion, him because he is less of a political animal that will put himself forward directly. But he does appeal to both wings of the party. So that is a very important name to watch out for.
The next in terms of Conservative Party membership is Penny Mordaunt, the first female secretary of state for defense in the country, also been on reality TV shows. A lot of charisma, liked by the party base.
And Rishi Sunak as you mentioned, widely considered to be the obvious replacement of Boris Johnson until he became embroiled in his own scandals that related to his wife domicile status and tax evasion.
And Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, who some of our viewers may, know she's made some speeches over the years which verge from comical to slightly strange. But she is the figure that is liked by the base, often compared to Margaret Thatcher in certain ways.
Those are the ones to look out for. As ever with a leadership contest, as we, saw, exemplified by the election of Theresa May, it's intensely unpredictable because certain candidates knock each other out. Then unexpected figures remain. So we really cannot predict who will be in that role in months to come.
FOSTER: OK, Bianca thank, you.
Let's bring in Christiane to put all of this in context for us.
This is the end of a credible era in British politics. We look back on the events that unfolded and the way Boris Johnson presided over them.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Max, it is not the end of an era, an era that was upended by Boris Johnson's particular brand of populism. And many have said in the aftermath, of also pathological dishonesty and the inability to govern.
So the populist nationalist brand, that was also then taken on by Trump, then we saw it in Europe, crystallizing with the whole Brexit and those elections, that was an experiment that actually has not worked out as we can see.
And what happened was this person who revolved around his own personal charisma, his own personal ability to campaign, to be successful on the doorstep, was then, unable to govern. And that is what a lot of people have been saying about the cabinets
who he has gathered around him over the last couple of years. These cabinets, members and ministers have been chosen based on ideology, loyalty to Boris and loyalty to Brexit. That is a fact.
And that is one of the weaknesses that has crippled the actual governing of Boris Johnson's you know, time in office. Because it has been about personal loyalty and about loyalty to Brexit.
So last, night in the before times, before he actually has resigned, people were saying that the next Conservative Party leader has to be able to appeal to all sides of the party, has to actually demonstrate that he is a big tent or she is a big tent Conservative Tory.
That they can bring in all ends of the party. Because we have seen what happens when it's just one end. Bianca talked about the base. The base doesn't make it. The base has now collapsed. The base has proven incompetent and unable to actually govern.
So that will be a test of the future, you know, cabinet secretaries, the future prime minister and the future direction of the Tory Party.
People look back and they say, well, we have seen this in the past. We saw, for instance Cameron had a big party. We saw Tony Blair on the Labour side who was able to bring in all sides of the party.
Those are the kinds of parties and government that are the most stable. That is I think people will be thinking as they decide who to choose for the next party leader and next prime minister, Max.
FOSTER: Are you concerned at all about Boris Johnson as a caretaker prime minister?
I'm saying this because there was an extraordinary comment that came out in Parliament earlier on, where somebody expressed a concern about. It. I think it was a Labour MP. She said she was concerned that Boris might just start a war because he can if he is an interim prime minister. I don't think anybody realistically think that's the case.
[07:55:00]
FOSTER: But there's a huge amount of concern that he may be even more bombastic and reckless. He doesn't have to worry about having the support around him that he has had to sort of try to nurture in recent months.
AMANPOUR: Well, that would be the extreme end of people's fears. That has come from an opposition, as you mentioned, Labour Party official. It is hard to comment on that.
We do know that, you know, there are certain leaders who have thrived on chaos in order to stay in power and in order to deflect hostility and actual legitimate concerns and criticisms about. Them
Boris Johnson himself did a lot of deflection up until now. The whole business of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda has been considered a particularly you, know deflecting kind of, again, another self inflicted wound, particularly in terms of international law and the denying of legitimate rights by refugees to seek asylum in the port of entry and refuge and to send them off to Rwanda, which has very questionable human rights and democratic credentials.
Has been a point of great concern, amongst lawmakers in this country. His constant trips to Ukraine, have been considered often to be deflecting criticisms. And, again it's important to note that, while he has stood up and supported not just with words, also with materiel and support, the right of Ukraine to defend itself, that has been a long-standing British government policy.
They were already arming and training the Ukrainians in the aftermath of 2014 Russian invasion. That is a policy that is bound to continue. Actually in that, regard Ben Wallace, the current Defence Secretary, has been very highly regarded for how he has spoken about Ukraine, how he has, you know, enacted the government policy toward Ukraine.
You know, yes, Boris Johnson has been shown to create chaos and emit flak that can potentially or, he would hope, distract criticisms and any kind of personal attacks. And, yes, many people within his own party, too, will not like the idea if he hangs on as caretaker prime minister.
They are saying, we all resigned you know because of his leadership.
What will we do?
Help the party if he is, what will we do?
Literally, they are having these questions and conversations in public about what if he even tries to stay on for the next several months?
Many of them don't want that to happen.
What will be the institutional party mechanism to challenge that desire if Boris Johnson enacts that?
FOSTER: It is extraordinary, at times very hard to predict, thank you.
Let's go to Nina now.
Nina, we are trying to work out really whether Boris Johnson was suggesting that it's agreed he will be this interim leader or whether not he was challenging people that did not want him to be interim leader by saying it will happen, you will have to challenge me again.
It is endless isn't it?
Do you think he is likely to see the whole election through until somebody else's appointed?
DOS SANTOS: This is what is not clear. I will point to the tweets that are coming out by those people who might well be in the frame to replace him. Particularly, Tom Tugendhat, who is the chairman of foreign affairs select committee, somebody who I suppose, many people inside the Tory Party would probably agree, could well have earned a position in cabinet. But was not awarded one because he was viewed as a rival to Boris.
He started to tweet, saying, it is a right call by Boris Johnson to resign, delivered Brexit, rolled out vaccine and led on Ukraine and now we need a clean start.
That hint there is in a message from a number of these people, who may well try and replace Boris Johnson and throw their hat into the ring. But the pressure is now publicly being applied, whether it's on social media, whether it's in the corridors of power in Parliament.
I will say yesterday, the atmosphere was pretty febrile, as you can see people already starting to coalesce around some of these figures who can start to challenge for the leadership contest in the next week. So we don't really know where that will play out. Whether Boris Johnson will hang on, whether again this sort of campaign to oust him in public will continue.
Starting to see it on social media. What is interesting about tweets like that one by Tom Tugendhat, Max, is that what they are doing is politely acknowledging those three achievements of Boris Johnson.
But one thing that Tom and others have mentioned is something that Boris Johnson mentioned in his speech, which is his famous leveling up agenda. This was the idea of creating a more egalitarian, economic distribution across the U.K. to deliver for the people who flipped from Labour in the blue collar seats in the north, the industrial heartlands that have been decimated by years of previous Tory policy.
