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CNN International: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson Resigns; U.K. Inflation Hit 40-Year High in May. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 07, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Some of them might argue.

He was going to make life better for these people. But actually over the last few years, it's become quite obvious that leveling up agenda has stalled. Famously, he gave the brief to one of his frenemies if you. Like Michael Gove and then, he sacked him unceremoniously yesterday when Michael Gove said it is time to go.

So the country is not left as a more equal place as Boris Johnson claimed it would be. What is interesting is that in his speech when he left, he specifically mentioned the leveling up agenda. But it looks as though many of his challengers for the job thereafter are certainly not buying that one. Max.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Nina dos Santos, thank you.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

FOSTER: Hello, I'm Max Foster, outside the Houses of Parliament in London. A few moments, ago Downing Street British prime minister, Boris Johnson announced his resignation to the country. He said that it was his job and his duty to continue to do what he promised in 2019.

But after 59 members of his government resigned, following a string of embarrassing scandals, his position was untenable and he had to go. This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Thank you. Thank you.

It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new prime minister and I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week.

And I have today appointed a Cabinet to serve -- as I will -- until a new leader is in place. So I want to say to the millions of people who voted for us in 2019, many of them voting Conservative for the first time. Thank you for that incredible mandate -- the biggest Conservative majority since 1987, the biggest share of a vote since 1979.

And the reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so but because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019.

And of course, I'm immensely proud of the achievements of this government -- from getting Brexit done to settling our relations with the continent for over half a century, reclaiming the power for this country to make its own laws in Parliament, getting us all through the pandemic, delivering the fastest vaccine rollout in Europe, the fastest exit from lockdown and in the last few months, leading the West in standing up to Putin's aggression in Ukraine.

And let me say now, to the people of Ukraine, that I know that we in the U.K. will continue to back your fight for freedom for as long as it takes.

And at the same time in this country, we've been pushing forward a vast program of investment in infrastructure, in skills and technology -- the biggest in a century. Because if I had one insight into human beings, it is that genius and talent and enthusiasm and imagination are evenly distributed throughout the population. But opportunity is not. And that's why we must keep leveling up, keep unleashing the potential in every part of United Kingdom. And if we can do that, in this country, we will be the most prosperous in Europe.

And in the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we're delivering so much, when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls -- even in midterm after quite a few months and pretty relentless sledging -- and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.

I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course, it's painful, not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself. But as we've seen in Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful when the herd moves, it moves.

And my friends in politics, no one is remotely indispensable and our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader, equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times, not just helping families to get through it but changing and improving the way we do things -- cutting burdens on businesses and families.

[08:05:00]

JOHNSON: And yes, cutting taxes, because that is the way to generate the growth and the income we need to pay for great public services.

And to that new leader, I say wherever he or she may be, I say I will give you as much support as I can. And to you, the British public -- I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few will also be disappointed. And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: There it, was the speech that many people have been waiting for, for months. It's took a long time to get there but eventually, happened. Labour leader Keir Starmer said the resignation was good news for the country.

Obviously the prime minister was responsible for in his, words lies, scandal and fraud on an industrial scale. But he says Johnson needed to go now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, U.K. LABOUR LEADER: He needs to go, he cannot cling on in this way. His own party have finally concluded that he is unfit to be prime minister. They can't have him inflicting on the country for the next few months. It is obvious he's unfit to be prime minister and that has been blindingly obvious for a very, very long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's first minister, says the possibility of Johnson staying on as prime minister until the autumn is far from ideal there. CNN chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour, joins me now.

Trying to make sense of this. He said he will stay on in this interim role. Actually quite a forward-looking speech in many ways.

What do you make of that?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is for the party to decide. It was a resignation but not a resignation. It was you know still resisting the reality, which is that actually yes, the herd has finally left the building.

That is his herd, his own herd, the cabinet people that he appointed, the ministers that he appointed, they have all left him. His own party has now, if there was another confidence vote, they suggest that he would by far be voted down and would lose any other vote of confidence.

Many say he should have left when the last vote of confidence was -- came back. Yes, he got a majority but it was such a huge number against him that he should've moved away.

There are, as you reported, a lot of resistance now, a lot of resistance showing up on political social media to this idea that he stays as caretaker government. And a caretaker prime minister until a new one is determined. And a new party leader is determined.

Last night I spoke to Rory Stewart. He is also a former Conservative minister. He was expelled from the party by Boris Johnson over differences. particularly over Brexit. And last, night he told me that anybody would make a better prime minister, including, in his words, Larry the Downing Street cat, because he just couldn't govern.

And he hasn't been able to govern in his entire time as prime minister or at least most of it. And then just in case you want to know exactly what has brought Boris Johnson to this point, which is entirely personal and self inflicted, he laid out what he called the rap sheet. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: One of the things analysts and the pundits keep saying, well, you know, who else is there?

Who do the Tories have to put up if Boris Johnson goes?

So what do you say to that?

RORY STEWART, FORMER CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, at some basic level, almost anybody in Parliament would be a better prime minister than Boris Johnson. Larry the Downing Street cat at the moment would be a better prime minister because the point is that he simply cannot govern.

The whole thing has become like a reality TV show. And this has been going on for months. It's impossible for him to have a long term economic policy. It's impossible for him to announce any policies or be taken seriously because, every single week, there is another scandal, almost all of them of his own creation.

Almost all of them made worse because he lies and tries to avoid, before he finally comes through.

So who else is there?

Well, there is Rishi Sunak and Sajid Javid, who are these two very senior cabinet ministers, who resigned yesterday. There is Jeremy Hunt, who took him on before, who was -- I suppose is the kind of leader of the old guard.

There is potentially even Nadhim Zahawi, who is the new Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he may be the shortest lived Chancellor of the Exchequer in world history. He took this apparent poisoned chalice this morning.

[08:10:00]

R. STEWART: And the chances are, if I am, right that he will hold the job for only a few hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Max, that was one sound bite and one part of the interview that I had with Rory Stewart. And he lays it out clearly, there including actual names about who could replace Boris Johnson. What I was alluding to was that these troubles have gone back to from

when he prorogued Parliament. He tried to do that over the whole Brexit, thing when he tried to change the rules of the, game in terms of how to deal with and punish those who had violated rules.

When he, when he denied knowing -- and this is the latest one that tipped him over the edge. Obviously we know about Partygate, when he was fined for breaking rules of his own government.

He became the first prime minister in British history to be found to break the law by the Metropolitan Police. He also, the last one was when he said, he did not know about sexual assault allegations over somebody that he had chosen to serve in his government.

So those are the issues, entirely self inflicted, nothing to do with policy, all about personal integrity or the lack thereof, personal honesty or the lack thereof.

And crucially, the ability to govern and the ability to deliver now in elections because he has lost several, the party has lost several local elections that they should not have lost recently because of Boris Johnson's personal popularity and what it is doing to drag down the popularity of the party. Max.

FOSTER: If that is the domestic picture, what about the international picture?

He was this towering figure on the world stage, deeply unpopular in capitals like Paris. You speak to these world leaders, you know how they felt about him when he was in office.

Will they be popping the champagne today?

AMANPOUR: He was a toweringly unpopular figure except for in Kyiv, in the United States, while yes there is still a special relationship between the U.K. and the United States, you know that, ever since Brexit, the United States has been warning Boris Johnson that if he does anything, which he is doing, to threaten the Good Friday Northern Ireland peace accord by trying to rewrite international law and mess up the so-called Northern Ireland protocol part of the Brexit deal, which would threaten the peace accord.

If he does, that Speaker of the, House Nancy Pelosi has said there will be no congressionally approved free trade act. End of story, this simply will not be. And President Biden, who has gotten a lot vested in the international rules of the game, has also said similar things about protecting the Good Friday. Agreement

Boris Johnson claimed to be leading the West in the defense of Ukraine. That is in fact not true. He is a very powerful and vocal figure, Supporting the defensive of Ukraine and he has attached himself like a limpet to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

He has visited Kyiv twice. That is a lot of good, moral support. But the British government has been stepping up ever since 2014 and, yes, they have done what all other Western governments are doing and that is supporting President Zelenskyy's legitimate right to defend himself with materiel and, finance and humanitarian assistance in the face of Russia's unprovoked war.

Yes, you are. Right in Europe, they just don't like dealing with him. We heard from Alistair Campbell, that President Macron himself has long complained that Boris Johnson just looks him in the eye and flat out lies.

President Macron has called Boris Johnson a liar in closed door conversations with fellow leaders. He is not popular, for many reasons, particularly about Brexit and particularly about Northern Ireland. He is not popular at all.

And the idea that he could continue as a caretaker prime minister, trying to deal with ongoing legislation and negotiations, rather with the E.U., is kind of, I don't want to say laughable. But it sounds impractical, impractical from a European perspective on this account.

FOSTER: Let's go with impractical. Christiane, thank you.

James Daly joins me now. He's a Conservative MP for Bury North in Greater Manchester.

Are you comfortable with this idea as Boris Johnson as the interim leader?

JAMES DALY, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: First thing to say is that's the prime minister, choice within our constitutional framework. He is able to do that. I would've made a different choice. But the prime minister I think you can take from the, speech, tells us things he wants to achieve. He's still connected to the agenda that we elected in 2019. So if he feels he can do that, he can drive forward in the open areas by nine, then --

FOSTER: But it's not decided though, because he said it.

Or will it be challenged?

DALY: We will see how things go. Clearly, we're here at this point in time. The position will be outlined by the prime minister. If it changes, I'm sure you'll invite me back --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

[08:15:00]

FOSTER: But who will do, that it's you guys, isn't it?

The back bench MPs?

DALY: Obviously the prime minister has resigned as the leader of the Conservative Party. We have a vote in who is the leader of the Conservative Party. In terms of the constitutional position of prime minister, that is a decision for the prime minister himself. FOSTER: In terms of when that decision might be pushed from the MPs,

that will be next week, presumably, when these committees meet?

DALY: The vote is going to be next week, a vote of confidence in the leader of the Conservative.

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: -- to a vote of confidence in --

DALY: -- well --

FOSTER: -- off to who should be interim leader --

DALY: I think the prime minister has made a positive case today as to why he should remain. As I say, different people have different visions, different views, in respect to that. But let's just get on with it. Let's continue to deliver in the next few months.

FOSTER: Let's (INAUDIBLE) a different way then. You were PTS, we were permanent -- parliamentary private secretary until last night?

DALY: (INAUDIBLE).

FOSTER: So if he asks you to come back into the role, tonight what would you say?

DALY: I would say no.

FOSTER: Exactly, isn't this the problem?

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: -- interim government, because people are not going to receive --

DALY: -- I think we see or you can tell me, he's appointed people to his cabinet. I would -- there are some really great, talented ministers who felt they needed to resign over the next couple of days. Many may feel in these circumstances they can come back and take those roles that they had.

I just feel, because I sat out my position, I felt that I had to resign from my position, that it would not be right for me to go back in there. But that doesn't mean I don't support the agenda. (INAUDIBLE)

FOSTER: It does largely depend on how many of your colleagues who resigned would be willing to go back in underneath him. That will be defined whether or not he will be able to continue.

DALY: There may well be that, there may be other colleagues who asked, I've seen three positions in the cabinet, three or two have been filled by people who did not have jobs previously and who have not resigned. There are clearly colleagues who want to go back in, want to ensure

they have a functioning government, doing their duty for the country, and they certainly should not be criticized for that.

FOSTER: Do you worry about him as an interim leader?

He can be pretty reckless, can't he?

He takes big risks at the best of times.

But will he be more volatile in this situation when he's got no challenge to his position, because he knows he going at a particular point.

DALY: We probably need a psychologist to answer questions like that regarding --

(CROSSTALK)

DALY: Well, there is a another debate with respect to that. All we can say is we've seen the speech, we've see what he said about this. I believe in that leveling up agenda, what he has delivered to this country.

What he is saying is, let's keep that going. I want to deliver, I want to make these next few months something I can be proud of, something I can show that I have been a great or prime minister.

I think it's very important to say, something you touched on, when you were talking to Christiane about -- this is a man who has done an immense amount of work on the national, international stage, in Ukraine, in this country in terms of the vaccine rollout, as well as other things.

He has many things to be proud of. If he feels he can continue to offer something to the country going forward, that is a matter for him. If he does that, we will continue supporting him.

FOSTER: Will it be difficult for him on the world stage, though?

He won't have the authority of a regular prime minister. Everyone will know he is there temporarily.

DALY: Well, you are either prime minister or you're not. I understand the point you're making. But he is the prime minister. He is the leader of the government in this country. I do not define whether my prime minister is successful as to whether or not he's popular with President Macron or not.

(INAUDIBLE) happening through the Ukraine (INAUDIBLE) the prime minister's skills, leaning on a hugely -- that's a different debate. But I think he's been at the forefront of the international effort to protect the people of Ukraine and he must be congratulated for that.

James Daly, I appreciate you time. Thank you very much indeed.

Do stay with CNN. After the break, we will have more on prime minister Boris Johnson's resignation, coming up next.

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[08:20:00]

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FOSTER: Welcome back to Westminster. It has been a seismic day and frankly the end of an era, a tumultuous period in modern British history, when you consider the pandemic.

We are really looking at how all of that was handled, going into the Ukraine war, led by one man, who very much saw it as his mandate to lead on these big issues. He talked about that today and he announced his resignation today.

It was not an easy resignation. In the end, he was pretty much forced out by his cabinet and by the wider party, described as almost a herd mentality. Nic Robertson was there as Boris Johnson gave his historic resignation speech.

We were expecting it to be much bigger, weren't we?

Talking about legacy. It was quite a matter of fact in the end, quite magnanimous as well. We were hearing earlier on from our team.

What did you make of?

It and what was the atmosphere like down in Downing Street?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There was a big cheer from the staff, who had come outside of the street to watch, including his wife, Carrie Johnson, and their baby.

Big cheer of support there, boos from the people behind the gates at the other end of Downing Street.

But as I have had a chance to reflect on it here, Max, knowing how the prime minister likes to give quite flourishing, full of -- rhetorical speeches, you know, conjuring the sort of language that his idol, if you will, Winston Churchill, would use, we did not have that today.

When I reflect on it now, and because of the ambiguity that the prime minister has left, it feels almost like a placeholder speech. This is not the final "I'm going away now" speech from a prime minister. I think he still has that in him, yet to give, that moment, as he said, where another prime minister has been found.

He says that he is leaving but we do not know who is going to replace him or when. I think it is very informative what we have heard from the foreign secretary, Liz Truss, who returns from Indonesia where she was attending a G20 meeting of foreign ministers.

She says that we need calmness and unity and keep governing while a new leader is found. I think that this is from somebody who will be in the running, expected to be in the running for Boris Johnson's job.

It seems to be a case of the party does not want chaos. They know Boris Johnson wants to stay longer. They are not giving in to that. They know that he has to go and they want him to leave, he has gotten that message.

But one thing that Conservatives won't want right now is what the opposition, the Labour Party, seems to want, which is a general election. This will be a very weak and poor moment for the Conservative government to be forced into a general election.

Any more chaos, any more ruptures, any more sense that the government cannot govern is going to be even more damaging for the Conservative Party. It will be even more fuel for the Labour Party to add to their campaign, to really toss out, as they say, the whole of the Conservative Party.

[08:25:00]

ROBERTSON: So I think the two things -- the takeaway is, quite simply, a placeholder speech, a bigger one to come when he thinks the handover happens and perhaps a recognition within the party that the fire has been lit.

There is a disaster and chaos going on, the prime minister recognizes that but try to put out the flames, try to meet at a midpoint try to make this somewhat dignified. Obviously a lot more to play out here, Max.

FOSTER: Absolutely, Nic.

Bianca, when we talk about more to play out, we are talking about the mechanics, the handover. We still don't have a timetable for a new leader. It doesn't feel like it usually does feel. This is a bookmark, as though there will be more chaos to come.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: That is what some people watching that speech have been saying. Perhaps, even though on the surface of it, seems fairly magnanimous, not a dramatic speech, certainly not by Johnson's standards, that he may be setting up a betrayal narrative.

Essentially was blaming other people and not himself. He did not actually take responsibility at any point. He simply said he recognized that they wanted a new leader. He did not even use the words that he was resigning.

FOSTER: He suggested it was a herd mentality.

NOBILO: Exactly. And as Nic was saying, that is slightly insulting to some of his MPs. The herd was a massive chunk of his own party. Also the Conservative Party brand remains so damaged.

So yes, a new leader, the prospect of a new leader gives the opportunity to recover some of that and to build that brand back but only the opportunity. It is in such a dire state because of all these scandals and because of Boris Johnson's premiership, the real question is, do any of the candidates have what it takes to rebuild the party, to ambitiously contest the next election?

FOSTER: The challenge there, as always with the Conservative Party, is who can bring the different sides together?

It does feel divided again, doesn't it?

NOBILO: Yes, it does; perhaps less so than it would've been a few weeks or months ago. Previous Boris loyalists have decided enough is enough. We saw that today, when he had a group of supporters joining him for that resignation speech at Downing Street. It was a very small group of just the diehards and his wife, Carrie, and his six-month old.

I would say the divisions are less now because of all the resignations and the recognition that they were in such a crisis and in such chaos. Potentially, that provides a platform to move forward in a more united fashion.

I also think had there been a no confidence vote, he had been beaten decisively, that also would've provided the opportunity. We look at candidates that might be able to bridge those divisions, Ben Wallace is one that comes to mind. He is the current Defence Secretary who is well regarding on both sides of the party.

Sajid?

Sajid Javid, potentially. Obviously there are some who might resent him for what he has just participated but again probably a smaller faction of the party. He has a very popular backstory, the son of a Pakistani bus driver. And that will have a lot of popular appeal.

FOSTER: He was the one pushing to keep taxes where they were or even higher. That was the division between him and Boris. Boris wanted to do to as the backbenchers wanted, to reduce taxes. Maybe that's the view potentially.

NOBILO: It's interesting you mentioned that. We had touted that there was an economic policy announcement coming. One may still come. We still do not know how bullish and instrumental Boris Johnson wants to be in this transition period until another leader takes over.

That will be one of the key arguments going on. If he wants to announce formal tax cuts they also want to be throwing red meat to those Tory backbenchers, he has ambitions. It may well put his successor in a difficult position if they have a contrasting economic policy.

FOSTER: There are people concerned that he will be even more of a loose cannon now because he doesn't have to worry about the next election.

ROBERTSON: And trying to force through some of the issues that were on the table before him, for instance, the bill going through Parliament, passed into law, to abrogate some of the terms of the Northern Ireland protocols, as part of the international agreement with the European Union over how Northern Ireland fits into the U.K. and customs relations.

All of those, very, very difficult and thorny issues, something that Boris Johnson signed up to, knowingly, in October 2019. He used that mandate of having agreed a Brexit deal to go into the election and get that huge majority of 80 Conservative MPs out of that election, only to turn around later now and back out of that.

The whole notion of Brexit, I'm raising this because this gives us a clue as to the deeper divisions in the party, that beset the party for a long time, the decision to have a Brexit referendum was because of the division within the party over whether to be in the European Union or out of. It

It was resolved in the 52 to 48 election referendum by the country.

[08:30:00]

ROBERTSON: But how much the Northern Ireland protocol, the bill, that would allow changes to be made there and therefore build a deeper, more sustained, disagreement with the European Union, that could morph, potentially, into a trade war.

How much that is going to be -- those Brexit sentiments and keeping going and keeping that wing of the Conservative Party appeased in the choice of who the next prime minister could be.

Liz Truss, the foreign secretary, as we know, has said she would be very strong on that issue. Others within the party, who've put their hat within the ring, the attorney general said they would be very tough on that issue.

Do those running for election to leadership within the Conservative Party believe they still need to pander to that hard Brexit side of the party?

Because if that is what determines who becomes the next prime minister, that is going to put this country on a very difficult footing with the European Union. These are ifs. But this is some of how it sounds at the moment.

That gets to the divisions in the party. There are many divisions but this is perhaps one of the more fundamental one. This could shape the U.K.'s relationship internationally going forward.

FOSTER: Nic in Downing Street. Also, Bianca here outside Parliament. A lot more to talk about as this unfolds.

Stay with CNN's coverage of Boris Johnson's resignation.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING) FOSTER: Welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the resignation of the British prime minister Boris Johnson.

[08:35:00]

FOSTER: Johnson announcing an hour ago that he is stepping down as head of the Conservative Party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. JOHNSON: in the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we're delivering so much, when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls -- even in midterm after quite a few months and pretty relentless sledging -- and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.

I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course, it's painful, not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: He will stay on as prime minister, he says, in a caretaker capacity, until his party can agree on a successor, a move that could take months perhaps until October. Boris Johnson was never far from controversy in his three year tenure.

He was appointed PM on July 24th, 2019, after the resignation of Theresa May on a promise to, quote, "get Brexit done." He dissolve Parliament and called a general election for December 2019 amid the fierce battle over the terms of the U.K.'s exit from the European Union.

He won an 80 seat majority in Parliament which passed his Brexit deal in January. Johnson led the U.K. government during the COVID pandemic. He was hospitalized himself with the disease in April 2020.

His political position was weakened considerably by the Partygate scandal, in which officials were alleged to have attended Downing Street gatherings in late 2020 in violation of COVID 19 lockdown rules.

He narrowly won a no confidence vote in June. Last straw came last week after the resignation of deputy chief whip Chris Pincher amidst a sexual misconduct scandal. Johnson admitted he had been told of previous allegations against Pincher but that he had later forgotten about them.

Nina dos Santos joins me now.

It really was a rollercoaster ride for this prime ministership. We always knew that when he came into the role. He was always controversial. He provided a more colorful alternative, frankly, to Theresa May. DOS SANTOS: That's right. He also leveraged his time as mayor of

London, a Conservative mayor of a traditionally Labour-leaning city. He actually won that office not once but twice.

I remember covering two terms of Boris Johnson's antics in city hall. It was always a very entertaining and dynamic place. It was that springboard that he used to gain office and such notoriety across the country. The charisma, if you like, that propelled him into Downing Street with such a big majority.

Many of his cabinet colleagues now feel is being squandered. What they are trying to do is desperately engage in damage limitation. However, I would observe that if he wants to remain a caretaker prime minister, the hint is in the name, one has to take care.

The one thing that we know about Boris Johnson is very often he comes across as somebody who perhaps cultivates a little bit of impromptu behavior. He is rather disheveled sometimes in his appearance. He sometimes turns up at speeches, makes jokes about not following his notes, so on and so forth.

The feeling now is it's time to get serious. There is an election coming up in about 1.5 years' time. If the Conservative Party actually want to win that, they realize they really badly need someone in charge straightaway.

Labour is polling somewhere between seven and 10 points ahead of them now. There are those really sensitive seats in the north of England, in more economically deprived areas that Boris Johnson had promised so many times he would better the outcome for people in those parts of Britain.

That has yet not transpired. If you look at his legacy in terms of his portfolio, there are lots of things to finish. For instance, the education department has had a really difficult time. School children have been out of school for nearly two years during the pandemic. There is a lost learning to catch up on.

The latest education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, before accepting the job as the finance minister or Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, had only been on the job 10 months. His predecessor was not very well viewed before, Gavin Williamson.

So the education system needs looking at. There is an endless crisis in social care. Obviously there is the whole fury surrounding the Afghanistan fiasco in the summer; 139,000 people have lost their lives to COVID-19 before the country eventually got serious with lockdowns and vaccines.

Then it turned out at the time, when they did get serious about lockdowns, the government's own machinery behind that door, Number 10 Downing Street, was breaking those very rules that they themselves had devised.

So to rebuild trust is obviously going to be the first and foremost objective of any future Conservative leader. [08:40:00]

DOS SANTOS: What I would observe, though, which has crept in over Johnson's time, that I have seen, personally, firsthand, as a journalist is that it is very difficult to get accountability, even through the natural laws that we are allowed to use as journalists.

Say, freedom of information requests have been routinely ignored by the government machinery on an unprecedented scale under Boris Johnson.

So trust with the voters, trust with the members of Parliament will be crucial. Also, I suppose, trust with the press, to try to make sure that Boris Johnson or the Conservative Party after Boris Johnson, can rebuild its reputation before it heads to the polls.

Obviously Labour is now ahead in the polls, about 1.5 years before an election. But they are already starting to agitate, to say they could try to table a motion of no confidence, essentially backing Conservative Party MPs into a corner.

They might say, if you really want him out, if so, you have to vote with us. It is unlikely they would. But yet it could be another public display next week.

FOSTER: It is not over yet. Nina, thank you very much indeed. We will have more of CNN's coverage of the resignation of Boris Johnson after this break.

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FOSTER: End of an era here in London, as Boris Johnson announces his resignation. He really did oversee an extraordinary period In modern British history. Coming in off the back of his credibility, building the campaign for Brexit, seeing the U.K. leave the European Union.

But in many ways, defined by his response to the pandemic and, more recently, the Ukraine war.

[08:45:00]

FOSTER: Joining me now is Richard Johnson, a lecturer at politics in Queen Mary University of London.

It's for the likes of you to sum it all up and tell your students what this is all about. I can't quite do that yet. But you know his legacy is there to a large extent.

RICHARD JOHNSON, QUEEN MARY UNIVERSITY: Beyond anything else, he will be remembered for Brexit and for COVID.

For Brexit, this is a battle that he wanted. He delivered a harder Brexit than probably any other Conservative leader would've wanted to have done or did. And I think that shows a real distinction from Theresa May's legacy, that he will hold on to.

COVID, the vaccine rollout, of course, will be something he will always mention. But he is not a micromanager. And I think COVID did not play to his strengths. He is a big hitter, a big image type of person. And I think that the details of different lockdowns, tiers and so on really threw him off course.

He never really regained balance. With these scandals, that was the fatal blow really.

FOSTER: He really stepped up on Ukraine. You see him as a hero in Ukraine. He has had standing ovations in the parliament there. But actually in the end, that worked against him a bit here, didn't it?

He got so carried away by that, some people would argue.

R. JOHNSON: That actually is a really good point. Ukraine, as well was very significant and put him on the type of stage he likes to be on. He is a showman, not to denigrate him but he is a showman. He likes to rise to these kind of big moments.

I think he saw in Ukraine an opportunity to do that. He also generally believed in it -- I'm not trying to disparage that either. But I do think that it was important, actually, holding back some of the Conservative MPs earlier on.

I think they would've moved against him earlier back in the spring when the Sue Gray report came out. But that held them back. But I think the torrent of scandals and, really, the by-election defeats. At the end of the day, those mattered the most for the Conservative MPs because they can see themselves in the different types of seats that were being defeated.

FOSTER: This morning before he came out, all the talk had been about him not being the interim between now and the election of a new leader. A lot of backbenchers saying that cannot happen.

He comes out in bombastic form, actually, saying he is going to stay on. He still has more to achieve.

So that does make it complicated, doesn't it?

It kind of makes getting rid of him far more complicated.

And do they want more tension at Downing Street?

R. JOHNSON: I think it would be quite difficult to get him to go straight away if he doesn't want to do that. There are ways they could possibly do it. Some of these start to involve the palace. I don't think anyone in the Conservative Party wants to get the palace involved.

I think the compromise will be a shortened leadership contest rather than a contest that goes right up until Conservative Party conference in October, perhaps one that takes just this month, you know?

I think that is something that could be quite flexibly arranged because the Conservatives' own internal rules are extremely flexible and really left to the decision-makings of the (INAUDIBLE) committee and the --

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FOSTER: When was the last time there was a month-long Conservative leadership election?

R. JOHNSON: Actually, when Theresa May became prime minister, succeeding David Cameron, that was a very short contest because it did not go to the members in the end because Andrew Lexon (ph) rather had to withdraw support --

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FOSTER: So just to explain, the parliamentary party whittle it down to two. That goes to the wider party. What you are saying it wasn't two in the end, it was just one. That was Theresa May.

R. JOHNSON: That's right, I imagine some Conservative MPs would like to replicate that now. They have a decision and they have to agree with the MPs at the start and say, whoever comes second withdraws. So actually we decide the whole thing.

FOSTER: So to speed it up?

R. JOHNSON: To speed it up.

FOSTER: Maybe that is the compromise they reach today behind the scenes.

R. JOHNSON: I have no inside knowledge but if they wanted to speed it up, that is the way they could do. It, removes choice from the members. Because that is what takes the long period of time, balance out and all the campaigning.

FOSTER: What do you think Boris is going to do now?

R. JOHNSON: I imagine what he wants to do is to have, on a high, a sort of swan song. What he does after he end his time in Downing Street, my gut reaction is he will not remain an MP for long. He will go off onto the world stage.

There is a little bit of me that thinks he might hang on if he feels he has been pushed out unjustly. He could always stand in a leadership challenge in a year's time.

FOSTER: Or this one.

He could stand in this, couldn't he?

R. JOHNSON: He is disqualified. I had to look into that. Because if he had lost the vote of no confidence, he would not be able to stand in the subsequent one.

FOSTER: Yes, but he won.

R. JOHNSON: Because he won it, I think he could. I don't believe he's going to do that, I'm pretty sure of that. But maybe next year.

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FOSTER: But who knows?

It's so unpredictable. He could stand against Rishi Sunak. Anything could happen. Thank you very much, indeed.

Coming up, a look at the U.K. economy during Johnson years and the many growth challenges facing the incoming prime minister.

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FOSTER: Welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the resignation of the British prime minister, Boris Johnson.

His successor will face a daunting set of economic challenges when he or she is ultimately appointed, from soaring inflation, to the very real threat of recession. Don't forget the post Brexit relationship with the European Union. Anna Stewart joins me now.

Anna, this is one of the things the markets have been looking at, isn't it?

The fact that he had a very tense relationship with the E.U. not just over Brexit but a personal relationship. Anyone replacing him will actually be positive for the E.U. in that sense, that might help the markets a bit.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It could be, if we could look at the financial reaction we have this morning, it's interesting, it's fairly positive. Sterling, which had a drop against the dollar, a two-year low yesterday, is up half a percentage point.

I think, Max, it is really important to know that, compared to the leadership contest we had with Theresa May or even in the last election, the financial risks we are looking at are nowhere near as great.

We are not looking at a hard Brexit, a soft Brexit, or a no deal Brexit. We do not have a hard left leader, like Jeremy Corbyn in the sidelines. And in those terms we are not really seeing huge financial reaction.

But there is no doubt that this nation needs a government capable of governing at the very best of times. And this is not that. Inflation is above 9 percent at the moment. The Bank of England expects it to top 11 percent later this year. The economy is flatlining.

[08:55:00]

A. STEWART: It actually contracted in March and April of this year. So big expectation that the U.K. will head into a recession. The inflation is the worst of all the G7 nations. The Office of Budget Responsibility says the public is facing the biggest drop in living standards since records began.

They need a united government, a strong government. And I thought it was very interesting, very clear, from the resignation letter from Rishi Sunak, the outgoing chancellor, was that he did not agree on economic policy, particularly when it came to taxation.

Rishi Sunak wanted to raise taxes, a raise in corporation tax next year, a potential windfall tax for energy companies. Clearly at the top, Boris Johnson disagreed with that. The new chancellor, Nadhim Zahawi, who got the job late yesterday, he says he is a fan of tax cuts. He sees that as part of the solution to rebuilding the economy.

But how long will this chancellor be in position?

I suspect all of the contenders for Tory leadership will be a fan of tax cuts. It's a very popular policy for Tory members.

Of course, they will be the ones who get the vote on this. That could add to inflationary pressures. That is what we really have to watch out for. But yes, this is a country that really needs a strong government.

Right now, we have a lame duck prime minister; cabinet ministers who will be in their position, for, goodness, how long?

Max.

FOSTER: Anna, thank you very much, indeed. Much more on the financial implications coming up after the break with Julia. For now, from here in London, thank you for watching.