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CNN International: Labour Leader Starmer: This should have happened "Long ago"; UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson Resigns; Johnson: I am sad to be giving up best job in World; Boris Johnson Resigns as PM, Stays on for Now; Johnson: "In politics no one is remotely indispensible"; UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson Resigns. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired July 07, 2022 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: Hello, I'm Julia Chatterley continuing our breaking news coverage of the resignation of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson that he's not done yet. He said earlier, he intends to remain in the job until a replacement is chosen in the autumn in a statement to the country from outside to number 10 Downing Street.
He said it was his job and his duty to continue to do what he promised back in 2019. But after 59 ministers of his government resigned following a string of embarrassing scandals, his position was untenable, and he had to go.
BORIS JOHNSON, OUTGOING BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Thank you. It is clearly now the will of the Parliamentary Conservative Party, that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister. And I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the Chairman of our backbench MPs that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now. And the timetable will be announced next week. And either today appointed a cabinet to serve as I will, until the new leader is in place.
So I want to say to the millions of people who voted for us in 2019, many of them voting conservative for the first time. Thank you for that incredible mandate, the biggest conservative majority since 1987, the biggest share of the vote since 1979.
And the reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so. But because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019.
And of course, I'm immensely proud of the achievements of this government from getting Brexit done to settling our relations with the continent for over half a century, reclaiming the power for this country to make its own laws in Parliament, getting us all through the pandemic, delivering the fastest vaccine rollout in Europe, the fastest exit from lockdown, and in the last few months, leading the West in standing up to Putin's aggression in Ukraine.
And let me say now, to the people of Ukraine, that I know that we in the UK will continue to back your fight for freedom for as long as it takes. And at the same time, in this country, we've been pushing forward a vast program of investment in infrastructure and skills and technology, the biggest in a century.
Because if I have one insight into human beings, it is the genius and talent and enthusiasm and imagination are evenly distributed throughout the population, but opportunity is not. And that's why we must keep leveling up keep unleashing the potential of every part of the United Kingdom.
And if we can do that, in this country, we will be the most prosperous in Europe. And then the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it will be eccentric to change governments, when we're delivering so much. And when we have such a vast mandate, and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls even in mid-term after quite a few months and pretty relentless sledging and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.
And I regret and not to have been successful in those arguments, and of course, it's painful, and not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself. But as we've seen, at Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful when the herd moves, it moves.
And my friends in politics, no one is remotely indispensable. And our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader, equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times. Not just helping families to get through it, but changing and improving the way we do things.
Cutting burdens on businesses and families and yes, cutting taxes, because that is the way to generate the growth and the income we need to pay for great public services. Until that new leader, I say wherever he or she may be; I say I will give you as much support as I can. And to you the British public I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few will also be disappointed.
[09:05:00]
JOHNSON: And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.
CHATTERLEY: Labour Leader, Keir Starmer, said Johnson's departure is good news for the country, and that the Prime Minister was responsible for in his words lies scandal and fraud on an industrial scale, and that Johnson needs to grow now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: He needs to go. He can't cling on in this way. His own party has finally concluded that he's unfit to be Prime Minister. They can't mount inflicting on the country for the next few months. It's obvious he's unfit to be Prime Minister. That's been blindingly obvious for a very, very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon sees the possibility of Johnson staying on as Prime Minister until the autumn is far from ideal. CNN, of course covering all the angles for you and we begin with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo in Westminster. Guys nothing about that, to me said finale in that speech, can you continue to defy political gravity even just as an interim Prime Minister? That's the question.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Bianca?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the tide has turned so his members of parliament in his cabinet will not suffer him hanging on anymore. I think there was a grave concern in the party that was developing over the morning and last evening that even if he did resign, seeing his defiance and his buoyancy, as he was declaring last night that Boris Johnson might try and press ahead with quite an instrumental and effective agenda in the time that he would stay on as Prime Minister.
We were hearing about economic policy announcements, appointing new members to the cabinet to his government. And there was frustration about that, because this is not a normal circumstance for Prime Minister's departure, there is concern that Boris Johnson might try and regain and reshape as much of his legacy as humanly possible.
But what we're seeing here is a very confused process because of the personality of the man. But also the fact that the conservatives knew that they wanted to get rid of Boris Johnson, by and large, but what they didn't have is a plan for what would come after very different from back in 2019 when Theresa May was ousted, there were very obvious leadership contenders waiting in the wings and quite clear policy agendas for both of them.
CHATTERLEY: He was the answer for the party to the sclerotic dislocations the divisions within the party also within the country Bianca, to your point on what the country was going through with Brexit and the indecision over that, too.
He managed to gel over the cracks to tie them together, for better or worse at that point. Do they need someone similar because part of that was about personality? Part of that was about sheer politics and political will at that point? Do they need somebody like that at this moment or somebody very different? Because I think if they're trying to work out who the next leader is, that has to be part of the calculation too, Max.
FOSTER: Yes, I mean, the big issue with the alternative leader is that Boris Johnson was this powerful, charismatic figure, very well-known and a very good campaigner, and there aren't any obvious contenders in that sense. And that's why partly he stayed in power for so long.
So the best known figure is probably Rishi Sunak. And he had fundamental policy differences with Boris Johnson, as you've been reporting on over the previous months, you know, he wanted to keep taxes where they were, he was very well aware of the state of the public finances and the huge amount of debt.
And you can't keep reducing taxes. But the backbenchers want reduced taxes, because that's what the Conservative Party is all about. And Boris Johnson shared that view as well. So it's going to be an interesting period, this interim until we get to the new leader, because Boris Johnson basically is free than he was before. So things like reducing taxes, he's more able to do arguably, and there are a few other things as well.
So I think speaking to backbench MPs, what they're looking at really is trying to reduce the period he's in power as much as possible. And it could potentially visually be reduced down to about a month as they did with Theresa May. We'll wait to see how that goes. But Boris Johnson in a way is freed up for the next few weeks if he isn't as the interim leader.
NOBILO: And Julia, to your point about personality. I would note that the political pendulum often swings and you get this zigzag motion in politics where upon we had Theresa May and one of the main issues that conservatives had with her was the lack of charisma, lack of campaigning ability personality, so they choose Boris Johnson, somebody who epitomize the opposite of all of those traits.
And I do wonder if there will be an appetite for a much more serious stable contender, somebody who doesn't have any of Johnson's attributes who can bring politics back to a more grown up or predictable place.
[09:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: I think we need confidence - the country needs confidence and less of the drama in a sense, because I was just thinking Max as you were saying about the one month time, if we can reduce it, one month is an incredibly long time in the face of the economic challenges in particular, that the country faces in a lessening of economic confidence of consumer confidence.
In particular, Bianca, we were just showing number 10 Downing Street and I, for many reasons wonder what's going on behind closed doors now? And I watched you guys earlier, when you were discussing the appointees that were being made, even as we were waiting for Prime Minister Boris Johnson to come out.
Do you think those that are being appointed now are agreeing under the agreement, the knowledge that look, OK, Prime Minister, Boris Johnson was going to hang around, perhaps even until the autumn however long this takes. So at least holding together a government in the interim, even if they're not the perhaps the most competent, is given at this stage?
And then the other question for me here is the next leader, do they even want to take over? Does somebody want to take over at this moment, given the backdrop, given the challenges given the inability to perhaps agree on what policy should look like at this moment, at a time of rising interest rates? There are so many calculations here and considerations for everyone involved?
FOSTER: Well, if you give it a chance to run, as the Prime Minister will you take it - right?
NOBILO: Yes, I will.
FOSTER: There you go.
CHATTERLEY: Bianca, look into the future.
FOSTER: Alright, watch that space.
NOBILO: I was looking for opportunity to make the announcement.
FOSTER: I think what you - I think the problem that they've got now is this issue about tax, actually, because there's always a divide in the Conservative Party isn't there? And it was traditionally pro-Europe, anti-Europe; hopefully, they resolved that now there is genuinely a big divide about whether or not taxes should be reduced, because that's the tradition of the party. But you know the state of finances can't handle it in a way. At some point, you've got to pay off the debt.
NOBILO: Yes, they do. And Julia, to your point about these ministerial appointments that are continuing and whether or not those ministers are doing that, because they had confidence in Johnson, or I think more likely, the fact that they feel a sense of responsibility, because there is no member of parliament here who doesn't recognize the instability that the government is now facing.
So plenty, the people I've spoken to would perhaps consider taking a role in this transition just because they feel a sense of duty. And also, they quite like to be a minister if given the opportunity, and now they can do so without seeming like they're backing Johnson or putting their integrity on the line.
But by making the argument that if we don't populate these roles, the government will cease to function. And we have responsibility to the people of this nation to continue, especially when the stakes are so high, when there are so many issues in the health and care sector and crucially, the economy.
FOSTER: There are departments with only one minister at the moment; they literally can't function as Bianca says. And you know, I was speaking to someone who's very junior member of government, he said he won't take up a job under Boris Johnson. So that will be the test over today and tomorrow, won't it whether or not all those more than 50 jobs--
NOBILO: Yes, at least few positions--
FOSTER: --whether they can be filled. If they can't, they're going to have to revisit the idea of getting rid of Boris.
NOBILO: And I think that might be one of the reasons his speech was in turn more magnanimous, knowing that if he came out of the gate swinging and tried to really sell himself in his legacy too much that may have dissuaded MPs from joining him in the interim, he had to show that you might be respectful of that transition to get people on site.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, he's in the right frame of mind to remain an interim leader and be a responsible one at that. Bianca and Max, thank you so much for that. I'm going to leave you there for two seconds and introduce CNN's Chief International Anchor, Christiane Amanpour, who joins us now.
Christiane, I know you've been watching the fallout of this all morning and commenting. Do you think Boris Johnson is in the right frame of mind? And the government recognizes that some form of continuity in the short term is in the best interest of the country because that has to be paramount at this moment?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It doesn't seem to be the case. If you look at the social media comments by Conservative Party members, minister's resignation, people who've resigned people are still there. This whole idea that he wants to stay on is gaining a huge amount of commentary on their sort of social media channels.
And a lot of question, I mean, essentially, it's a resignation without a departure date. It's yet again, Boris Johnson, showing, you know, just hubris, and his speech was full of it. It just did not show any sense that he understood that he had brought himself and the party and the country to this current moment.
You know, this historian Antony Selden, who I've been quoting all morning, because I think it's really important, has commented that in 300 years of British history of 55 different Prime Ministers, none has gone down in such spectacular flames as Boris Johnson. And of course, it's all about his personal conduct and his personal inability to have integrity to be able to speak the truth and to be able to govern frankly.
And this is something very different to what we've seen from previous Prime Ministers who've had to step down.
[09:15:00]
AMANPOUR: Usually it's about policy and their policy differences and whether we're talking about May, Cameron before that - and that's when the knives went in or when they decided that they could no longer stay.
So, you know, I've been talking to over the last few days, certainly to Conservative Party members, Former Ministers like Rory Stewart, who just laid out for the record, exactly what has brought Boris Johnson to this point, all of them as he put amounts to a series of self- inflicted wounds, and stepping so far out of the mainstream expectations of political leadership, that this is what it's come to. Here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RORY STEWART, FORMER BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: To run through the events, he provoked parliament to try to drive through Brexit in other words, try to shut the door of Parliament. He expelled 21 members of his own party, including me in because we tried to vote against him.
That, again is something that's almost never been done by a Prime Minister. That was the beginning of challenging the Constitution. He broke the ministerial code by lying to Parliament and then he tried to rewrite the ministerial code to say that one didn't need to resign if he lied to Parliament.
He tried to rewrite lobbying rules when one of his close friends was found breaking lobbying rules, he tried to abolish the committee to deal with them. He got illegal money from donors to wallpaper his flat he tried to get another donor to spend $200,000 dollars on building a tree house for him.
He presided over extraordinary parties in Downing Street during a time when Britain had some of the most severe COVID lockdowns in the world. So people literally couldn't visit dying relatives in a hospital or attend funerals was a famous picture of the Queen sitting isolated a Prince Philip's funeral at a time when Boris was having glasses of wine in Downing Street.
But most recently, he appointed as a Deputy Chief Whip a man who he knew to have been guilty of sexual assault earlier who lost his job for sexual assault, he was warned repeatedly, and he appointed him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And there you have it, Julia. This is what has led to this moment, all of them, particularly, as I said, self-inflicted, and all to do with the issues of integrity, honesty and then finally, the ability to govern.
Last in all this debate is that he has even been unable to lead his party to by election victories in the last several that have been held. And that is something that's considered fatal for a Conservative Party backing of its leader and Prime Minister.
And that is a huge, huge issue for the Conservative Party. Boris Johnson to the end, even in his resignation, not so resignation speech, said that he had a mandate and he really thought it was eccentric. That was his word that the party thought that it was a good idea to, you know, to kick the government out now.
Well, the mandate may have been true two years plus ago and in 2019. But you have seen his personal polls plunge, his personal popularity plunge, 7 in 10 British adults think he should have resigned. And you have seen the popularity of the party plunge as well, even though he tried to gloss that over in his speech.
And he forgets I think he tries too, I think he believes that it's like a presidential system. So it's all about him. It's my mandate. I did it. I did it. But in the British parliamentary system, it's about the party people vote for the party. And it's true; he was always attractive on the doorstep. But that is obviously now waned and tarnished, and he was the one according to local election officials who lost these local elections for those particular candidates.
CHATTERLEY: That word caught my attention too eccentric. I think some would argue that there's been plenty of eccentric behavior on his part over the years and including what we've seen over the last few months, in particular too. Christiane, I want to ask you about the international stage and the reaction, particularly from some of the G7 leaders, perhaps eccentric will be perhaps one way that they would describe him as to win and a handful in terms of dealing them dealing with him.
But I also wonder how Vladimir Putin is thinking and what he's thinking at this moment, as he looks at a fallen UK Prime Minister, a challenged U.S. President a weakened Emmanuel Macron. I mean, it's not just about Boris Johnson; the political pressures for all of these leaders have been, in some cases insurmountable, and for others, pretty overwhelming.
AMANPOUR: Let's just take it from the beginning. The word eccentric is his word. He actually broke the law. He was fine. He's the first ever British Prime Minister to have been censured for breaking the law. And this was over party gate as you know, he was fined.
He has also tried to break international law and the Brexit negotiations over the Northern Ireland protocol this is something that sticks in the craw not only of the EU but also of the United States who he's trying to have a much better and stronger and bigger global Britain deal with. [09:20:00]
AMANPOUR: They won't do it. If a Boris Johnson or his party breaks the law on Northern Ireland, and therefore threatens the Good Friday Peace Accord. On the other issues, Putin at the Kremlin has already spoken. They have said we know he doesn't like us and we don't like him. And that's the way it is.
They just don't like the fact that the entire West has been united over his illegal war in Ukraine, whether it's Boris Johnson, Joe Biden, Macron, Scholz, the entire West and NATO, the EU have been united and strong. And that is not going to change if Boris Johnson departs. Britain's support of Ukraine and its defense is not going to change that is a British government policy.
And it has bipartisan support, cross aisle support here in Parliament, and that is not going to change. So Boris Johnson claims and even today, let's be honest, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, called him a true friend of Ukraine. And he has stood up.
He has gone to Kyiv. He has been very vocal in his defense of Ukraine. But remember, that is him voicing government policy. And that is not going to change for the Ukrainian people. I think it'd be very difficult for either the EU or the United States to enter any negotiations if Boris Johnson in any serious way, if Johnson is still caretaker, because he gets under their skin and under their rules and regulations when he's trying to get his way over the EU and then of course, with the United States over an eventual Free Trade Agreement. Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House has said it's just not going to happen if he threatens the Good Friday Peace Accord. It's just not going to happen.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, huge issues and of course the huge issues for the next leader as well from complications. Many to come, Christiane, great to chat to you thank you, Christiane Amanpour there! OK, we're going to take a quick break here but coming up plenty of reaction to Boris Johnson's resignation as Prime Minister, stay with us more to come.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to CNN and our continuing coverage of the resignation of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson in the early hours of this morning though continuing. He believes as a Prime Minister of the country and an interim role for the coming months as he waits for the party to choose a leader to succeed him.
[09:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: And the question is will that be allowed? Nada Bashir joins us now on this. Nada, that this is the big question and we'll we will continue to ask this question. What is the party going to do? Are they going to accept him as an interim leader while they work out whom next or is he going to be pushed?
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, look figuring out who the next leader will be Julia, is going to be a lengthy process for the Conservative Party. Of course, we do expect that to take place over the coming weeks.
We do know that the 1922 Committee will be meeting next week on Monday, and it is expected that they will outline the potential timeline for this. The Prime Minister, it seems still hopeful that he will be able to hold on to power to remain in place for the time being until that new leader is elected for the Conservative Party.
But we've already heard criticism from a number of MPs already and others voicing concern over the potential for Boris Johnson to remain in that position, while a new leader is selected.
Just actually in the last few moments we've heard from the Former Prime Minister John Major describing this as unwise let me just read you a little bit from his statement saying the proposal for the Prime Minister to remain in office for up to three months, having lost the support of his cabinet, his government and his parliamentary party is unwise and maybe unsustainable.
Now, that is the key here. There are serious concerns that the Prime Minister has, of course, now lost the support and trust of not only his party, but also some of his most Senior Cabinet Ministers and allies and also, of course, by the electorate.
We've seen it in SNAP Polling that that trusts in the government has gone down. Previously, we saw that 7 in 10 which adults believe that the Prime Minister should have stepped down before. Obviously now we are seeing him leaving.
You know if we are thinking about a Prime Minister that could remain in place until perhaps even the next party convention in October. That is a long time for Boris Johnson to still be in that position, without that support from his own cabinet ministers not only those who resigned, but also those who still remained in office and told the Prime Minister, quite frankly, that it was time to go the game's up, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Boris Johnson wrote an article back in May of 2010, when Gordon Brown was in a different as always but similar situation. And he asked, isn't this someone the Queen's private secretary, the nice policeman on the door of number 10, whose job it is to tell him that the game is up.
And that's part of the challenge that he faces with this bombastic personality too, in that we know he's stubborn. We know he's challenging. We know he has his firm views, even if he was more demure when he came out earlier. The question is, will he remain or will the party be able to negotiate some form of kind exit and replacement?
You said it's a huge challenge here. How might the party respond just in terms of confidence votes? How did the logistics work from here, outside of choosing the next party leader?
BASHIR: Absolutely there might be a call there for the Prime Minister to step down immediately to remove from office to allow a separate caretaker leader to take that place to oversee the government for the coming months. Potentially, we've been hearing reports that they would like to have someone in at least ahead of the summer recess.
But of course, there are still questions around who would take that position as the caretaker leader of the Conservative Party. There is of course still quite a lot of division within the party on various fronts, particularly when it comes to policy and there isn't a clear front runner at this stage when it comes to who the Conservative Party will be able to unify around?
At least there are some key names which are stood out as potential successors to Prime Minister Boris Johnson. But at this point, there are still those divisions. Those names will be debated over the coming days and weeks, I believe also heard from the opposition Labour Party Leader Keir Starmer, saying that this isn't just a matter of getting rid of Boris Johnson, but that there needs to be a complete overhaul at 10 Downing Street, and this is time for a general election.
Now that is obviously not the view of many of those in the Conservative Party who will be fearing, of course, that this has had a knock on effect, and not only interest in the Prime Minister, but trust in the Conservative Party as a whole fears that they will not perform well, of course, in a general election, that is something they'll be keen to avoid.
But of course, throughout this process, we've seen this as really the latest challenge against the Conservative Party as a whole and they have faced numerous challenges and scandals over the last few months. We'll certainly see them perform perhaps not as well as they would hope in a general election.
The question now of course is who would that next successor be and how long can Boris Johnson hold on to his position as a remaining Prime Minister until a new leader is selected? That is the key question but at this stage, it remains uncertain. We'll wait to hear from the 1922 Committee next week as they set out that timeline to bring about a new leader of the Conservative Party.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And one could point out that for these situations there is a Deputy Prime Minister that could step into the role immediately because that's what that therefore, we'll see. [09:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Nada great to have you with us thank you Nada Bashir there! OK, as we were discussing earlier in Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, reacting to the resignation of Boris Johnson he spoke to CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: He resigned not because he was in Ukraine, what Johnson was doing for Ukraine. He was a true friend of Ukraine. He totally supported Ukraine and the UK it's on the right side of history.
I'm sure the policy towards Ukraine of the UK will not be changing. And our relationship obviously gained a lot from Boris Johnson's activities. Yes, we don't know if something will affect our unity but first of all, we've got military support from the UK and that's been secured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy there. We're back after this stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back! On a seismic day in British politics, Boris Johnson was stepped down as Prime Minister forced out by his own party, following nearly 60 resignations from his government which made his position simply untenable.
Exactly when he's going through isn't clear as we speak? He says he will stay until a new leader is found. And that's a bone of contention among some of his Tory colleagues and for the opposition too. In his statement outside number 10 Downing Street, he laid out what he saw as his government's key achievements.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so. But because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019. And of course, I'm immensely proud of the achievements of this government from getting Brexit done to settling our relations with the continent for over half a century. [09:35:00]
JOHNSON: Reclaiming the power for this country to make its own laws in Parliament, getting us all through the pandemic, delivering the fastest vaccine rollout in Europe, the fastest exit from lockdown, and in the last few months, leading the West in standing up to Putin's aggression in Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: He talked about his key achievements, of course, but also the key priorities that remain for the party. Now the leader of the main opposition party has expressed disbelief that Johnson intends to keep going for weeks or even months, Keir Starmer, he should leave now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARMER: He needs to go. He can't cling on in this way. His own party has finally concluded that he's unfit to be Prime Minister. They can't mount inflicting on the country for the next few months. It's obvious he's unfit to be Prime Minister. That's been blindingly obvious for a very, very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Conservative MP Damian Green joins us now. Sir great to have you on the show with us! You agree with Keir Starmer, he's clinging on to power and shouldn't?
DAMIAN GREEN, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: No, it's what always happens. We've had a succession of Prime Ministers who've resigned between the elections, Theresa May and David Cameron, before Boris Johnson.
And the convention is that that we in the Conservative Party elect a new leader, we do that by having a session where the parliamentary party the members of Parliament's in the Conservative Party whittle it down to two people, and those two people go out to our members around the country. And that whole procedure takes a couple of months maximum.
So I think there's no reason why we shouldn't have a new prime minister in place by early September. And in the meantime, the normal thing is for the existing Prime Minister to stay on as a caretaker until that happens.
CHATTERLEY: And you think that's the right decision for the country?
GREEN: Yes, I think I mean, if we had another argument about who should take over as interim Prime Minister that would just be an unnecessary distraction? I think the trick is to make sure that we do this procedure, as fast as we can consonant with it being fair and democratic.
And as I say, given that we've got a couple of weeks of Parliament left, before we have the summer recess, the MP section can easily be done in that time. And then we can have five, six weeks or so of our members in the country, looking at both the candidates that come out from that, and voting for the next Prime Minister.
CHATTERLEY: Green, are there enough people that are willing to step into this government now and not consider themselves being tainted, even by an interim Prime Minister, Boris Johnson? Will there be enough continuity in the government in order to continue even if it is only for the next five or six week's best case?
GREEN: Well, there are - I mean, they've already appointed five or six people. So the cabinet is now fully occupied. And that, you know clearly there were dozens of more junior people who resigned. If it was left to me, I would offer them all their jobs back and say, can you carry on for this caretaker period?
And I'm sure most of them would do that because obviously, the business of government needs to go on, you can't have huge gaps in ministers. They need to be there to take decisions. But I think most of them would do that because it's in the wider interests of the country.
CHATTERLEY: Damian, who should lead the Conservative Party in the country going forward and who will different questions?
GREEN: Who should I will be voting for Tom Tugendhat who is Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee? He's a fresh face. He's not been in Boris Johnson's government. And he's absolutely determined to restore trust in politics in this country, which is clearly a big task for the next Prime Minister.
So the answers to the second half of your question who is it I hope, Tom, but all experience tells us that conservative leadership campaigns are unpredictable. I mean, Tom is not the favorite himself, which gives me some hope, really, because the favorite very seldom wins these elections, but it will be an interesting process. So I'm afraid predictions are really difficult at this stage.
CHATTERLEY: Is the time for personality politics in the United Kingdom over Damian?
GREEN: I think the time for politics entirely based on personality has sort of had its day and normally, people will react the other way. But I think you can see any political leader needs to have enough personality to engage with wide swathes of the population.
And in particular, people who aren't interested in politics. And of course, that was Boris's great skill that like everyone he was a mixture of strengths and weaknesses. His great strength was his ability to communicate with people who weren't traditionally changed in politics and indeed not traditionally conservative either so any leader needs to have a bit of personality.
[09:40:00]
CHATTERLEY: Can the Conservatives win the next election after what's happened and what's to be done in the economy? GREEN: Yes, absolutely. I think that - I mean, I was sort of around the edge of politics in the mid-90s when it was perfectly clear to all of us that the 97 election which Tony Blair won by a landslide was going to go that way.
The current politics is not at all like that Labour has a fairly small lead in the opinion polls. Keir Starmer has a pretty uninspiring leader. We've been talking about personality politics. Chios is a nice man, but he's not, you know, your measure of personality. He doesn't engage people. So absolutely, I think the next election is up for grabs.
CHATTERLEY: That's why I asked. Sir, great to have you on thank you so much! OK, still to come Johnson says he's staying on as Caretaker Prime Minister, but when his own party let him as we were just discussing, we'll discuss with geopolitical strategists to afford him right after this.
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CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the resignation of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson! I want to show you what we're seeing in UK financial markets at this moment. The British pound gaining against the U.S. Dollar after falling to more than two year lows against the U.S. dollar.
Earlier this week the UK stock market too rising currently up as you can see by 1.4 percent the FTSE has been on one of the more resilient global stock markets this year it's down by just two and a half percent since January. UK investors have been laser focused on the Bank of England's efforts to contain inflation.
The UK Central Bank has raised rates at five consecutive meetings and says it will continue to tighten policy until inflation falls to its 2 percent target rate. There is plenty we could say about that. But for now let's bring in Tina Fordham, Geopolitical Strategist and Founder of Fordham Global.
And Tina, fantastic to have you on the show for me, all of these things is tied early on the show. I was just talking about the prospect of at best a five to six week period of choosing the next Conservative Party leader. That is a really long time when you look at the economic challenges or potential summer of discontent that the UK faces, they need continuity and they need it now?
TINA FORDHAM, FOUNDER, FORDHAM GLOBAL FORESIGHT: Well, I mean, arguably we haven't had particularly strong political leadership during this period. What you just described about the market reaction here in the City of London tells us a little something about what is actually hoped for.
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FORDHAM: Which is that the next leader, who replaces Boris Johnson, might be a little bit more open to a reset with Europe and more positive relations? We have to face the fact Brexit isn't going well. You mentioned the summer of discontent, inflation brings strikes, and the winter is looking pretty tough, too. So I'm not sure that the city feels that there are big concerns about a power vacuum.
CHATTERLEY: No, almost anything's better than this. And the current stalemate situation, perhaps too. Do you anticipate Boris Johnson remaining in number 10 until a new leader is found? And who do you anticipate being the next leader?
FORDHAM: Well, he clearly anticipates sticking around and you know the way that Boris Johnson is assessing the situation is the summer recess will begin in a few weeks' time. And ideally, in his mind, he'll be able to ride it out until the Conservative Party conference now.
One, I think one factor behind his desire to you know, to stay number 10 is he doesn't want to go down in history as a Prime Minister who stayed in office even for an even shorter period than his predecessor, Theresa May.
So that will be in his mind as well. He's a historian and he's written about great Prime Ministers like Churchill, and now he has the indignity, some would say self-inflicted, of being described by some as the worst Prime Minister in British history.
So sticking around and bucking convention would be consistent with Boris' brand, but people you had on the program earlier, mainly from his fellow conservatives are concerned about him, dragging them down. So I think it won't be in the party's interest.
And you know he hasn't broken any rules yet. This is something that I think is not being sufficiently appreciated about what's happening here in the UK, compared to just for example, Washington, the Houses of Parliament are not on fire.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, perhaps all the rules have been broken, but not this particularly one to you're to your point. And it's actually fascinating to hear you describing a Prime Minister that was given the strongest mandate since what 1987.
Now comparing his term to wanting to do better than former Prime Minister Theresa May, which will say something about this, but the challenge is for whoever takes over our vast?
FORDHAM: Well, and that's what worries me more as a political strategist, you know, mainly advising investors and corporate, people look at what's happening in the UK, and you know, that the term clown fall has been trending on Twitter.
Nobody wants a Prime Minister who's considered a global joke. And so you know, with that in mind, even someone dull may help to steady the ship, but it is a bit of a poison chalice. We still have the - hangover from the pandemic. We've got strikes this summer and you know anticipation of chaos.
And winter is going to be tough, I'd argue for all of the G7 leaders. So it's a very unwelcome combination of political and economic headwinds, which doesn't lend itself to personality politics or populism for that matter.
CHATTERLEY: And that's part of the challenge too. You think and you said, your money's on Ben Wallace, current Defense Minister, obviously very connected with what we've seen in terms of the UK's response in Ukraine. Tina, very quickly, why is he the right man to lead? Or at least why will he be is your pick to lead?
FORDHAM: Well, so my job, you know, I'm nonpartisan. What I think he is the most likely replacement. Lots of non UK observers have not heard of Ben Wallace. He's been in the job for quite a while defense secretary well respected.
And I think what's really crucial here is that the fellow members of the Conservative Party, the parliamentary party, rate him very highly. Former Chancellor, Rishi Sunak has been tainted by various allegations.
He had bit of a parade of, you know, fairly unconvincing personalities coming through number 10 in the last couple of days. I'm not sure any of them are going to inspire confidence and they're all somehow more closely associated with this Prime Minister.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And speaking of coming to the door of number 10, where it's exactly what we're seeing cars arriving and people arriving entering that door at number 10. I'll just qualify Tina, again on your behalf. I didn't mean your personal pick for leader just your choice of who will lead the party in terms of who you believe will be chosen and my apologies for suggesting it was your choice rather than your view.
[09:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Tina, great to chat to you thank you! Tina Fordham, Geopolitical Strategist and Founder of Fordham Global Foresight thank you for that. Coming up, I look at how a divided UK can move forward from the Boris Johnson years the challenges facing the next Prime Minister and bringing the country together? We will be back after this.
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CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the resignation of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson! Johnson announcing just a few hours ago that he's stepping down as Head of the Conservative Party and that he will stay on as Prime Minister in a caretaker capacity until his party can agree on a successor and move that could take months perhaps until October.
Boris Johnson was never far from controversy during his almost three year tenure as Prime Minister. He was appointed PM on July 24th 2019 after the resignation of Theresa May on the promise to "Get Brexit done".
Johnson dissolved parliament called a general election for December 2019 amid the fierce battle over the terms of the UK's exit from the European Union, he won an 80 seat majority in parliament which passed his Brexit deal the following January.
Johnson then led to the UK government during the COVID pandemic and was himself hospitalized with the disease in April of 2020. His political position was weakened considerably by the party gate scandal, in which government officials were alleged to have attended gatherings in late 2020 in violation of COVID-19 lockdown rules.
He narrowly won a no confidence vote last month. Then the last draw came last week after the resignation of Deputy Chief Whip Chris Pincher amid a sexual misconduct scandal. Johnson admitted that he'd been told of previous allegations against Pincher, but that he had later forgotten about them. And Nina Dos Santos joins me now, a loud and lively leadership run I said I would suggest, if not long lived?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, certainly not long lived. But obviously it isn't over as we know. That's the next chapter of Johnson's saga, even though he said he's going to resign. The big question is when he actually steps out of the door?
But if you look at the legacy really has been one scandal after the next. For those of us who are from London and have had him as our Mayor or journalists like me who've followed his election battles to become Mayor of London. We always knew it was going to be a very entertaining ride with Boris Johnson at the helm, not of the city, but at this time of the whole of the country.
But I think few people could have believed that it would have ended in this way when they covered like I did the general election back in 2019. And he delivered that thumping majority of 80 seats the best turnout since the heydays of Margaret Thatcher.
And he also flipped a number of that bedrock labor, blue collar seats as well. The fear now is that with somebody like Boris Johnson at the helm, the Conservative Party could kiss goodbye to those types of seats.
[09:55:00]
SANTOS: So that is why we're seeing damage limitation exercises when it comes to his legacy. Let's have a look at that. Obviously, there have been endless crises in social care. He's alienated a lot of the conservative base by raising taxes to pay ostensibly for things like the NHS, which has obviously been buffeted by extra spending to deal with the COVID pandemic.
So raising taxes, if you're a Conservative Prime Minister isn't a good look. He clashed with this Finance Minister over that, and then we'll see how that pans out with this new Finance Minister, Nadhim Zahawi in the next couple of days? There's going to be a big push for trying to repeal some of those tax rises push through tax cuts.
But the big question is, according to the government's own financial watchdog, they say beware of doing that the country at this time can't afford it. And when it comes to spending, Boris Johnson's government has already been seen as a very profligate and overspending. There are real concerns about the financial stewardship of this country's economy at a time when it is heading towards a recession potentially towards the end of the year. That's his legacy, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, as he said, things are dark now but our future is golden. The question is what future? We shall see. Nina Das Santos thank you for that!
SANTOS: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: And that's it for me for now, but stay with CNN, as Isa Soares picks up our continuing coverage of Boris Johnson's resignation as the British Prime Minister, stay with CNN.
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