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Former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe Assassinated; Pat Cipollone Testifies to January 6 Committee; President Biden Signs Executive Order on Abortion Rights. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 08, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Coming out of this these -- committee hearings, as well as, as you were just saying, the other meetings here...

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Right.

KANNO-YOUNGS: ... corroborating whether or not there was an attempt to seize voting machines as well, as well as actions that day.

KING: Right. And the public hearings resume next week. We will see some of this then.

Appreciate your time today. A busy breaking news day on INSIDE POLITICS. Try to enjoy your weekend.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

A huge day of news is unfolding.

First, the White House pushes back. Two weeks after the Supreme Court ended a woman's constitutional right to an abortion, President Biden signs an executive order aimed at protecting some reproductive rights.

Plus, behind closed doors. Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone sits down with the January 6 Committee after months of negotiations. He could provide invaluable insight into what Donald Trump was doing as the Capitol was under attack.

Also, Japan in shock and mourning, really the whole world in mourning, after former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's assassination in a country that only had one gun-related death in all of last year. A killer use what appears to be a homemade gun to shoot Abe during the campaign speech.

And the U.S. economy adds more jobs than expected, as a red hot jobs market shrugs off fears of a looming recession. What does this mean for interest rates and inflation? We will get to all of that. Let's begin on Capitol Hill and what may be one of the most

significant interviews for the January 6 Committee. Former Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone could reveal what was unfolding in the West Wing as the Capitol was under attack.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is joining us now with the latest.

Ryan, this comes after months of negotiations. What are we learning about his testimony today?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing, Ana, is that it's still happening.

Cipollone was seen a walking into a House office building early this morning. He has ducked out once or twice to get counsel from his attorney outside of the conversation with investigators. But for the most part, he has just been inside this room answering questions for a significant amount of time.

And that is a good sign in terms of what the committee is hoping to get out of Cipollone. There were some concerns about whether or not he'd be unwilling to answer certain questions because of privilege issues. But the fact that he's been in there for this long and could be in there for longer shows that they have been able to make some progress.

Now, to your point, Ana, Cipollone may be one of the most important players in this investigation. He was someone that was around the Trump White House for a significant amount of time and played a key role in that period between after the 2020 election leading up to January 6.

And we have already heard testimony about Cipollone's efforts to stand in the way of some of the things that Trump was attempting to do, like install Jeffrey Clark as the attorney general and his attempts to try and go down to the Capitol on January 6, as well as his cleanup effort after January 6.

So these are all important parts of what the committee is investigating. The question, of course, will be just how forthcoming he is, and then whether or not we will see bits and pieces of this testimony at upcoming hearings. There could be as many as two more hearings of from the committee. We know that this particular deposition will be videotaped.

So the question is, when do we see what Cipollone has to say and just how important it is to the investigation in general -- Ana.

CABRERA: But, again, this interview still ongoing a few hours in now. Thank you, Ryan Nobles.

Let's continue this conversation.

And joining us now is former Nixon White House counsel and CNN contributor John Dean.

John, you have been in Cipollone's shoes. How are you looking at this interview?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I agree he is a key witness. He was in the catbird's seat. He saw a lot of things that were going on.

His duty and his assignment was to protect the office of the president, not Donald Trump. So he should be forthcoming. He should explain what had happened, why it happened, what he knows. I don't know if he will. His past performance has not indicated that kind of cooperation.

So it's a good question, which it's kind of a mystery we're hanging on right now to see what he does.

CABRERA: Yes, no kidding. And we should note, before he did that voluntary interview, sounds like he didn't provide as much information as the committee would have liked, or maybe they didn't have as much background in terms of forming questions to ask him at that time.

Now he's there under subpoena. They had to agree on the terms. I want to remind our viewers about what we heard from Cassidy Hutchinson when she testified about a conversation she had with Cipollone on January 6 about Trump's push to go to the Capitol. Here's a reminder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO MARK MEADOWS: Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of: "Please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:10]

CABRERA: John, what would you ask him about that?

DEAN: I'd certainly like to know what he had in mind, what he was being very specific and warning her about.

She was also asked what crimes he had mentioned. And she mentioned obstruction of justice and defrauding -- or a process to defraud the electoral votes. That's for sure on the question list.

Will he be -- does he know anything, for example, about the bogus lawsuits that were filed, some 60 suits? We know he knows about the effort at the Department of Justice to have a mutiny, if you will, with Jeffrey Clark coming in with a bogus letter trying to alert the states to fraud that didn't exist, which he helped kill by saying his office would resign, as well as the top of the Department of Justice, if that was carried through.

And I think that dissuaded Trump from taking that action. He knows a lot about what happened, particularly on January 6, the morning of the insurrection. He probably is quite aware of the preliminary efforts of Trump to try to go to the Capitol, why he wanted to go to the Capitol, what he had in mind. That, of course, did not happen. His security detail kept him from

going to the Hill. And he returned and pouted all day there, where Pat could observe him.

CABRERA: What do you think might be off-limits? Because we know the committee sort of made a deal to get his testimony.

DEAN: Well, one area I would like to see him question about is who, asked for pardons? He may refuse to do that. I can't think of any privilege of why somebody who submits for a pardon shouldn't be able to be identified.

And I think that could be very telling to know what -- indeed, what pardons were being actively considered, if any, and why they weren't considering any.

CABRERA: And why is that so important?

DEAN: Well, I think it shows when -- excuse me -- when somebody seeks a pardon, they must believe they have engaged in criminal conduct.

You don't have sort of prophylactic pardons that will prevent prosecution. These are defenses. And so anybody with any sophistication that looked at the issue and requested one was trying to make the crime, potential crime, go away.

CABRERA: John, at this point, where's your head out on whether there's enough evidence so far for the DOJ to indict Trump?

DEAN: We have no idea what the Department of Justice knows. They're running their own grand jury. How far they are along on that grand jury, I have no idea.

My hunch is, knowing a lot of line prosecutors, they're pretty far along. And they're going to make a call at some point. I suspect that Georgia, however, and the DA in Fulton County, I think they're going to move first down there. And I think they're going to indict Trump.

CABRERA: John Dean, thank you very much. It's good to have you here on this Friday.

My next guest also served as a lawyer in the Trump White House. Jim Schultz joins us now.

Thanks for being here, Jim.

First, I know your time at the White House didn't overlap with Cipollone's, but what do you know about him?

JAMES SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: So, Pat Cipollone did ever -- did all the blocking and tackling that he could to protect the integrity of the White House and to protect our democracy in that position.

That's his job. And folks that make light of him saying that he and his office would resign should not have taken that lightly. That is the job. When you go in and take that job as White House counsel or in any executive office -- I served as general counsel to a governor -- you need to be able to -- willing to resign and walk away if you give advice and the client declines to take that advice.

CABRERA: We know Cipollone was with Trump on January 6. We have testimony from others already about Cipollone's warnings to Trump, to DOJ officials, and other White House staff regarding the legality of potential actions.

How worried do you think Donald Trump should be about the committee's deposition with Cipollone?

SCHULTZ: Look, he gave five hours of interviews to begin with.

Now he's going on the record and taking all that testimony on the record. There are a number of facts that have come out through Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony that the president should be worried about, if confirmed by Pat Cipollone and -- the former president should be worried about if confirmed by Pat Cipollone.

[13:10:00]

So, I think there's a lot to be worried about here if I'm Donald Trump and sitting and watching this -- these hearings unfold, and would be anxiously awaiting to see what he testified -- what Pat testifies to today.

CABRERA: And, of course, if there is something damning there, we can expect attacks on his credibility, just like we saw with Cassidy Hutchinson.

Based on what you know of him, his reputation, how credible is he?

SCHULTZ: Look, Pat's a very careful lawyer and an incredibly -- an incredibly credible person, an incredible lawyer.

He's going to tell the truth. He's going to tell the committee precisely what he knows within the scope that they have agreed to. And I expect that it's going to be truthful and thorough, and, again, upholding the oath that he gave us a lawyer and as an officer in the office of White House counsel.

CABRERA: What would be your top questions for him?

SCHULTZ: Look, I would want to know facts, right, the facts relating to, what went into the planning of going down to the Capitol? What were the plans to go down to the Capitol? What were the point -- what was said as it was related to Vice President Pence?

What was -- what discussions that they have relative to Jeffrey Clark and confirming those? Because those actions that took place directly relate to any potential case or referral of the case relative to overturning the outcome of an election. And that's something that the Justice Department and Georgia, for that matter -- and I agree with John Dean on this -- that Georgia is looking at very closely.

CABRERA: And so I will ask you the same question I asked John. Based on what we know already, do you expect Trump to be indicted?

SCHULTZ: Look, I agree with John on that. We don't know what the Justice Department has at this point in time. We know that the Congress has not turned over their information to the DOJ at this point.

We know that the DOJ has transcended down on Jeffrey Clark's home and served subpoenas there. So we know that they're looking at it. We know there's a grand jury.

But, again, I think that the one that's progressed along much quicker because they can be a little more nimble at this point is the Fulton County, Georgia, investigation, which is a special grand jury gathering facts at this point to determine whether -- and the DA will make a decision whether to put that before a criminal grand jury and determine whether to indict.

CABRERA: Right. And we reported this week they subpoenaed people like Lindsey Graham, as well as Rudy Giuliani. It gives us a sense of where they're at in their investigation.

Jim Schultz, it's good to have you here. Thank you very much for offering your insight.

SCHULTZ: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: The president takes action on abortion rights, but what will this executive order actually do? We will dig in.

Plus, shock, outrage and sadness all around the world after former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is assassinated during a speech. Ahead, the latest on the investigation, and more on the political aftershocks with someone who worked closely with him.

And a hot jobs report, as the Fed tries to cool down the U.S. economy. What all this means for the fight against painful inflation. We will break it down for you.

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[13:17:33]

CABRERA: The White House and the Supreme Court are now in an open feud.

President Biden just tore into the Supreme Court's ruling that eliminated a woman's constitutional right to an abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was not a decision driven by the Constitution. Let me say it again. This was not a decision driven by the Constitution.

And despite what those justices in the majority said, this was not a decision driven by history. Today's Supreme Court majority, that is playing fast and loose with the facts. What we're witnessing wasn't a constitutional judgment. It was an exercise in raw political power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The president's speech accompanies an executive order that will ensure access to abortion, including through FDA-approved medication, expand access to emergency contraception, and protect the safety and privacy of abortion patients and providers.

Let's bring in CNN Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue now.

And, Ariane, this is a response to the Supreme Court ruling, but does it actually change anything, this executive order?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, there's not a lot he can do, right? He can't reinstate this federal right to abortion.

You saw in that press conference he was trying to relitigate the Dobbs case. That's over now. And, as he said, it's up to Congress. And he's also really hampered by the Hyde Amendment, right, that says you can't use federal funds for abortion.

So there you have this executive order, maybe kind of modest, putting forward some of these things that can be done, help with emergency contraception, maybe an interagency group to help on the issue of the right to travel, interesting stuff on digital privacy.

But, at the end of the day, the way he left it is, you have got to vote. That's how this can be resolved, in his eyes. And, of course, he gave this press conference today out of pressure, a lot from liberals, because, keep in mind -- you and I talked about it -- that Dobbs draft opinion came out in May. The opinion, the final opinion, came out in June.

And there were a lot of progressives who wanted much more strong language, firm things that he could do a lot earlier. At the end of the day, there isn't a lot that he can do here.

CABRERA: I mean, speaking of strong language, at one point, he said, what century are they in, as he was criticizing the Supreme Court.

DE VOGUE: Yes.

CABRERA: I imagine, though, the court was probably expecting some kind of a response from one or both branches of government, right?

DE VOGUE: Right. That was strong language he used with the Supreme Court, calling it out of control, playing fast and loose with the facts.

[13:20:00]

And then he really was mimicking the dissent there, saying, look, there is a right under the Constitution, in his view. Women have come to rely on this. That's what the dissent said. The dissent pointed out how this is going to really hurt poor women who can't afford to travel.

And, at the end of the day, though, Justice Alito, in that majority opinion, said that this goes back to the states, the states have to deal with this, it should be in the political branches, not the legal branches. And that's about what he's left with.

But we're going to see now a lot more legal challenges across the board to this, a lot more chaos, confusion. Already, more than half the states have put in these strong restrictions, even banning abortion. It's just begun. And today is just going to add to it.

CABRERA: Yes. And it's hard to keep track of even where we're at right now.

Ariane de Vogue, thank you very much.

So, in his speech, President Biden explained the importance of protecting access to abortion pills specifically, an issue that doesn't only affect women seeking an abortion. Case in point here, a doctor in Tennessee who says he prescribed a patient the so-called abortion pill to help her pass her miscarriage.

This is a common management for miscarriage, but her pharmacists refuse to fill the prescription.

That OB-GYN joins us now from Chattanooga, Dr. Chris Radpour.

Thank you so much, Dr. Radpour, for being here.

This is obviously concerning to you and some of your patients and, frankly, women around the country. Tell us about this specific episode.

DR. CHRIS RADPOUR, OB-GYN PHYSICIAN: Yes, we saw each other last week. She had a miscarriage and we discussed options.

And one -- as you mentioned, one of the options is to give a medicine that helps complete the miscarriage more quickly, as opposed to letting it happen spontaneously, which sometimes results in hemorrhage. And I found out the next day that she had gone to five pharmacists and had been refused four times.

So it was frustrating to feel as though our plan was undermined.

CABRERA: Wow. And I just can only think about what that patient of yours must have been feeling, how traumatic it is to go through a miscarriage to begin with.

RADPOUR: Right.

I actually saw her again today. And she was -- she said it was insult injury. You're first trying to deal with a miscarriage. And now you're having someone say that they can't give you a medicine that you need in order in take care of it.

CABRERA: I mean, explain why, why they wouldn't fill the prescription.

RADPOUR: Well, the initial conversation with the first pharmacist when something like, I can't prescribe that medicine for you, and she said, why not? And he said, because the laws have changed. And she said, but I have had a miscarriage. And he said, well, I guess you're going to have to have that miscarriage on your own.

So we're finding that -- I think OB-GYNs across the country are now finding that our job has gotten a lot harder, trying to take care of miscarriages. There are other medicines that we use to take care of ectopic pregnancies, for example. Methotrexate is one of those that's used in arthritis. It's used for choriocarcinoma, which is basically a cancerous pregnancy-related tumor.

And those medicines are getting harder to prescribe because of the law change.

CABRERA: You touched on this, but just to make it very direct here, what could happen if a woman is miscarrying and can't get this medication?

RADPOUR: Well, she could hemorrhage. And if she hemorrhages at home, then it could be disastrous.

So, oftentimes, these are people who hemorrhage, show up at the emergency room, and then we're trying to play catch up when somebody's lost that much blood. So it's -- I would much prefer that the that the lawmakers not interfere with our plans of care.

CABRERA: And, again, I think it's important for people to know that the abortion pills, that's not illegal. That wasn't part of the overturning Roe v. Wade.

We heard the president today talk about a 10-year-old rape victim in Ohio who had to travel out of state to get an abortion because Ohio has no exceptions for rape or incest. Your state also doesn't have those exceptions.

RADPOUR: Correct.

CABRERA: How does that sit with you in your role as an OB-GYN?

RADPOUR: Well, again, it's made our job a lot harder.

Tennessee was one of those initial 13 states who had trigger laws. And it used to be that I could sit down with a patient who, after discussing other options, for example, let's say a surprise pregnancy, we talk about adoption, et cetera. And they still say, I'm -- I have to do something about this. I can't continue the pregnancy.

[13:25:00]

I previously could send them to Knoxville or to Nashville. But now, in Tennessee, I can't do that. So, for the time being, I can send them to Atlanta, but there's no telling whether Georgia will be next on the list to make the kind of laws that Tennessee made. So, once I start losing those options, it makes it much more difficult

for me to counsel those patients.

CABRERA: Dr. Chris Radpour, thank you so much for offering us your time and your insights and just sharing with the reality that we're living in now. I appreciate it.

RADPOUR: My pleasure. Thank you.

CABRERA: He was the longest-serving prime minister in Japan's history. Shinzo Abe's reach and influence go far beyond his own nation's shores.

More on his shocking death next.

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