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Bannon's Effort to Testify; Links Between Trump Administration and Extremists; Harry Litman is Interviewed about Bannon; Uvalde County Sheriff to Testify; Biden Meets with Saudi Crown Prince; Wildfires Threaten Yosemite's Sequoias. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:42]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

An eleventh hour about face by a key Trump ally but prosecutors say too little, too late. Overnight, the Department of Justice hit back against Steve Bannon. The former Trump adviser now says he is willing to testify before the January 6th committee after, however, months of refusing to cooperate. But the DOJ says Bannon's last-minute change of heart is, quote, irrelevant to the criminal contempt of Congress case against him. That is set to begin next week. The DOJ wrote, quote, the defendant's sudden wish to testify is not a genuine effort to meet his obligations but a last-ditch attempt to avoid accountability.

HARLOW: Bannon's reversal comes after he received a letter from former President Trump that waives executive privilege, but in a previously unknown until now development, new court documents show that an attorney for former President Trump actually spoke to the FBI weeks ago and contradicted Bannon's claim that the former president had invoked executive privilege over particular information or materials. So, who's telling the truth and who's not? More on that in a moment.

Also, in the January 6th public hearing that is tomorrow, this is the next one, the panel is expected to focus on how the violent mob came together, the role of extremist groups in the deadly insurrection, and any connections of those groups to Trump's inner circle. A former spokesman for the Oath Keepers, a far right militia group, is set to testify publicly tomorrow about the group's inner workings and the role that it played in trying to overturn the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON VAN TATENHOVE, FORMER OATH KEEPERS SPOKESMAN: Just to give a historical precedence to this group and how they have kind of radicalized.

I purged my life of that world years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you don't even know -- like January 6th was a shock to you?

VAN TATENHOVE: Yes.

All I'm doing is giving a historical precedence. That's all I'm able to talk about because that's the extent to my knowledge base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Let's begin, though, with developments regarding Trump ally Steve Bannon saying he's now willing to testify to the January 6th committee.

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now.

He was supposed to testify by October 21st. So, you understand the Justice Department's position here.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. They say, like you said, too little to late here.

And what's interesting is that Steve Bannon's trial is set to begin one week from today. So prosecutors are now accusing Steve Bannon and his legal team of really trying every trick in the book to really change the optics of this criminal contempt of Congress charge. They're saying that really he's about to face the consequences, so now he's really throwing anything against the wall to see what sticks.

And the prosecutors here, they are saying that you can't cure a criminal contempt of Congress charge by later agreeing to comply. They say that just doesn't fix it. And, furthermore, they're saying that Bannon still hasn't even complied fully. Sure, he's now saying that he will testify, but he hasn't turned over still all of those documents that were requested in the subpoena.

So, prosecutors are putting it this way, writing this. They're saying the defendant apparently has not told the committee he wishes to provide documents responsive to the subpoena, so his 11th hour efforts do nothing to cure his failure to produce records. Instead, his continued failure to comply with the subpoena's document demand while claiming he now will testify suggests his actions are little more than an attempt to change the optics of his contempt on the eve of trial, not an actual effort at compliance.

And, you know, in addition to this, the filing here, there's also this revelation that Trump attorney Justin Clark actually is now saying that the Trump legal team never told Steve Bannon that he should claim executive privilege. They're saying that the president himself, the former president, never told him that he was invoking executive privilege. They put it this way, saying, the defendant's attorney, the president's counsel made it clear that the letter provided no basis for total non-compliance.

So, they're saying here, Steve Bannon should have complied in some way, but yet he did nothing. And that's exactly what this trial is about. SCIUTTO: Remarkable to hear that from the president's own attorney say

that there was no executive privilege to be waived because it was never claimed.

SCHNEIDER: Yes. And who knows what more is to come because we know that Justin Clark sat down with the FBI in an interview on June 29th.

[09:05:00]

So, he may have said a lot.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

HARLOW: Jess, thanks very much.

We're learning that during the hearing, that is tomorrow afternoon, the January 6th committee will focus on connections and trying to connect the dots between the former president's inner circle and far right extremist groups who took part in the insurrection.

Let's go to Melanie Zanona. She's on The Hill.

So, I mean, that's their aim here and they've been illuding to this in interviews, members of the committee, that there is a direct link, they're saying essentially, from those groups to the president's inner circle. How close it gets to the president, I suppose, is a key question for tomorrow.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that's exactly right, Poppy. That has been a key mission of the select committee is to establish a clear link between Trump and his inner circle and these right-wing militia groups. And so tomorrow's hearing is expected to focus on how the violent mob was assembled and the role of these extremist groups in coordinating the deadly attack on the Capitol. Sources tell CNN that there will be at least one live witness tomorrow, and that is a spokesperson - a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers.

But, more specifically, we're expecting the select committee to focus on a tweet from December 2020 in which Trump encouraged his supporters to come to D.C. on January 6th and told them it will be wild.

Stephanie Murphy, a Democratic member of the committee, told NBC that that tweet was really seen as a call to action among these extremist groups and it really helped mobilize the mob.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): We will lay out the body of evidence that we have that talks about how the president's tweet on the wee hours of December 19th, of be there, be wild, was a siren call to these folks. And we'll talk in detail about what that caused them to do, how that caused them to organize, as well as who else was amplifying that message. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: We're also expecting the select committee to highlight an Oval Office meeting before that tweet between Trump and some of his allies, including Sidney Powell and Michael Flynn, where they discussed ways to prevent the certification of Joe Biden's victory, including seizing voting machines. So, we could really start to see the closing arguments for the select committee start to take shape.

Now, we are expecting at least one more prime-time hearing that will focus on Trump's actions or lack thereof on January 6th, but the committee has not ruled out adding additional hearings to it schedule, especially since they continue to unearth new information. Just on Friday, the committee interviewed former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone for eight hours behind closed doors. So, we could certainly see his testimony pop up in future hearings.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. And, Melanie, just on that point of the eight-hour deposition with Pat Cipollone on Friday, I mean what came of it, the main headlines that I - that they would share, right, because they won't tell us everything yet, and we'll see clips of it tomorrow, but where essentially he didn't contradict anything, specifically the testimony of former White House Aide Cassidy Hutchinson.

ZANONA: Right.

HARLOW: He did invoke his Fifth Amendment right several times and they didn't go there on some questions that you think would be the obvious ones. Can you explain their reasoning there? They didn't try to get him to corroborate what she said.

ZANONA: Yes. So, what the committee has said is that they didn't specifically ask him about other people's testimony, right? So, he wasn't directly asked to confirm or deny. But everything that he said did not contradict previous testimony. In fact, committee sources have said that they were very satisfied with what he told them, that they made a lot of headway despite the fact that he did invoke executive privilege on a few issues. And so it is almost certain that we will see some clips of that testimony in future hearings, Poppy.

HARLOW: OK. Melanie Zanona, thanks very much.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now is former U.S. attorney, deputy assistant attorney general, Harry Litman.

Good to have you on, sir.

I wonder, first on the executive privilege claim that apparently never was, what does this mean for the former president if he did not, in fact, claim executive -- or invoke, rather, executive privilege? Does this affect access to other potential witnesses and documents for the committee and courts?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, look, you know, he never had executive privilege to apply in the first place, Jim. He wasn't the president. We only have one at a time (INAUDIBLE). That's one of only six reasons why his claim or Bannon's now 11th hour claim of executive privilege is bogus, the most recent being, as Jessica mentioned, that the attorney who Bannon said invoked it said he never did. So, it's really, you know, a non-starter in eight different ways.

But Trump -- it doesn't apply to anything else because Trump doesn't have any executive privilege to waive. It's just a last-minute ploy to try to affect the dynamic of the trial as best as we can tell.

HARLOW: Harry, you are skeptical that Bannon will ever testify, right? His demand is, I will testify before this committee, but you can't depose me behind closed doors first. You have to do it all in public. Basically, hand me the microphone on live television.

[09:10:00]

I can see the appeal of that from his perspective. However, that's not how, as you point out, prosecutors work.

I just wonder what you think Bannon is trying to do here. Big picture.

LITMAN: Yes. And, of course, his reputation as a scoundrel of the first order proceeds him here. So that's the first question you go to.

It seems, and the - and the DOJ filing confirms this -- that he's trying to gin up some kind of legally lousy, but maybe he thinks factually sympathetic argument that, hey, now that he's waived I'm happy to comply, I just didn't do it before because he hadn't waived. And for all the reasons we said before, it doesn't fly.

Now, over to the January 6th committee. Look, even with Tiffany (ph) Hutchinson, they deposed her four times. This has been a very meticulous committee, not with they've -- they've done blockbusters but they've known every single word that was going to be said before it came. You could never -- if you were ever going to put up a witness to just extemporize, the last person would be Steve Bannon, who is squirrely and swash-buckling in the extreme. You never know what he'll say. This is a - a trojan horse that they will not accept.

SCIUTTO: All right, big picture, Harry Litman. These may be the last public hearings for the January 6th committee this week. Given what you've seen so far, the evidence as a lawyer, has the committee made the case that the former president broke the law?

LITMAN: Yes, I think so, Jim. I think they actually had made it before that he had broken some laws. And then the blockbuster testimony of Hutchinson I think put it into a whole different realm of seditious conspiracy because it introduced the element of force, Trump's knowledge of the force and even his eagerness to encourage and foment the force. So, I think evidentiary wise they've got a very solid case that the DOJ will have.

Of course, that will have to be balanced against the welder of policy considerations about indicting a former president. But I think evidence-wise, they've got it stitched up pretty well. HARLOW: Huge decision ahead for Merrick Garland.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

HARLOW: Thanks very much.

LITMAN: Yes.

HARLOW: Harry Litman, good to have you.

LITMAN: Thanks. Good to see you.

HARLOW: Still to come for us, the sheriff in Uvalde, Texas, is expected to testify one hour from now in the investigation into that completely failed response to the Robb Elementary School mass shooting. He previously refused to speak with the statehouse committee. So this is an important development in the massacre that left 21 dead. We'll have details on that.

Also, this fast-growing fire in Yosemite National Park threatening giant sequoia trees thousands of years old. We'll talk to a park ranger about the dangerous fire ahead.

SCIUTTO: Boy, I hope those trees survive.

Also, new CNN reporting this morning, why prominent Democrats are now closing ranks around President Biden ahead of the 2024 election. What's happening?

Stay with us.

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[09:17:00]

SCIUTTO: In the next hour, state lawmakers in Texas investigating the Uvalde school shooting will meet to hear testimony from law enforcement authorities, including Uvalde County Sheriff Ruben Nolasco, who has now agreed to cooperate in the hearings.

Poppy, so many questions here. There's been so much obfuscation throughout.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And how could you not cooperate? Everyone, right away. I mean, look, 21 people, all of those children.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Sources say a preliminary report could be released within the next ten days as to what happened and all of those failures from law enforcement as the Uvalde community and parents especially are demanding answers and accountability. Our crime and justice correspondent, who has been literally pounding

on doors for answers since this happened, Shimon Prokupecz, is live this morning in San Antonio.

So, Shimon, we're hearing the chairman of the committee is pushing for the release of hallway surveillance from the shooting. That could tell us a lot.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, one of the key things here, and this is what a lot of the local authorities are pushing for, is because so much blame has been put on the Uvalde School Police Department and the local police department. You know, we've heard the mayor talk about this, saying, why is it that we're not hearing anything about the state authorities, the other law enforcement officials that were on scene. And they believe that that hallway, that video from the hallway, will show us all the officers that were there. And it's going to be bad for everyone. But they have issue with the fact that everything is being blamed on one police department.

So, that is why there is this fight. Of course, the district attorney, which no one can understand why, she has basically stepped in and told authorities that they cannot release this video. So there are all kinds of negotiations underway.

As these investigations still go on, Poppy, you know, you make a very good point, why is it that law enforcement officials would not want to cooperate in this investigation? Why is it that everyone is pointing fingers at each other and there's this -- all this in-fighting in what is one of the worst shootings in this nation's history? And so we have these investigations that are ongoing here over the state legislators who are doing their own investigation, they want this video released. We have the head of the Department of Public Safety who's testifying again. The sheriff is going to come in and testify today. He initially refused to come in. They kind of had to force him to come in and testify. And, so, we'll see.

We don't learn really anything from those testimonies because it's all being done in secret and behind closed doors, but they say they will have a report, they think, in the next ten days.

And then, of course, there are the state investigators that are doing their investigation. And at some point, it could be months, we'll learn information from that investigation.

HARLOW: OK. Shimon, thank you so much for pressing for answers consistently there.

This week, President Biden makes a really significant trip to the Middle East. Stops in Israel and, of course, Saudi Arabia. That's getting a bulk of the attention, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, potentially consequential trip. As a candidate, the president vowed to punish the kingdom for the brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi, which the CIA judges was ordered by the crown prince.

[09:20:04]

But this week he meets with Mohammed bin Salman, and that's going to be quite a face-to-face encounter.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now.

And, Arlette, then candidate Biden, as you know, vowed to make Saudi Arabia a pariah, his words. Now he's defending the trip. And I wonder how he's trying to balance those two things.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, President Biden is trying to address some of those concerns surrounding his trip head-on, arguing that he is making such a visit in order to strengthen the security and strength of the United States.

Now, the president will first be making a stop in Israel and the occupied West Bank, but it's that visit to Saudi Arabia that is drawing the most attention and concern. And so much of that centers around President Biden's own comments as a candidate when he vowed to make Saudi Arabia a pariah state due to their involvement of the murder of "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi. The president also releasing the intelligence report that showed that the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, directly ordered the murder of Khashoggi as well.

Now, while the president will be there in Saudi Arabia for a larger meeting with Gulf leaders, he will be meeting with Saudi Arabia's king and is leadership team. And that includes the crown prince.

That meeting has drawn some criticism from members of the president's own party. And the president has acknowledged those disagreements about his visit. And in a "Washington Post" op-ed over the weekend, he defended the visit, saying, my aim was to reorient but not rupture relations with a country that's been a strategic partner for 80 years. My aim will be to strengthen a strategic partnership going forward that's based on mutual interests and responsibilities, while also holding true to fundamental American values.

So much of the rebalancing in this relationship has to do with its shifting geopolitical landscape as the U.S. is trying to counter Russia's aggression in Ukraine, as well as competing with China. And then there are all those concerns about rising energy prices. But all eyes will be on that meeting, what actions the president will have with the crown prince after he once vowed to isolate him for the murder of Khashoggi.

SCIUTTO: No question, brutal murder, the disposal of his body afterwards. I mean really harrowing when you remember the details.

Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.

Fire crews are now working to steer a growing wildfire away from Yosemite National Park's legendry giant sequoias. It would be so sad to lose them. CNN is live on the scene with the details next.

HARLOW: We are also moments away from the opening bell this morning on Wall Street. Futures are lower. Investors really waiting for the start of second quarter earnings season. Those numbers are going to show us the impact of this inflation on corporate profits and also this new rise in Covid cases, particularly in China.

Meanwhile, the price of oil is dropping. That is leading to some relief for drivers at the pump. According to AAA, the national average for a regular gallon of gas has fallen about 30 cents from a month ago.

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[09:28:01]

SCIUTTO: A fast-moving wildfire yet again is threatening Yosemite National Park's giant sequoia trees. Just so sad to see this.

HARLOW: There is actually, if you can believe it, I did not know this existed until today, a sprinkler system putting out a steady spray of water in an effort to keep them - keep them alive, keep the fire from reaching these ancient redwoods. Among them, the famed Grizzly Giant, the second largest in the park at 209 feet tall, thought to be 3,000 years old.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HARLOW: Our national correspondent Nick Watt is in Yosemite National Park with the latest.

Nick, what can you tell us?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, we heard last night that the fight to save these trees is going well. But as the sun rises here on the West Coast, the temperature is going to climb, we could see a little bit of wind, and the fire is expected to spread today.

Now, it's not the size of this fire, it's the location that is the issue. And we are told that flames got within a mile or two of the Mariposa Grove, home to 500 of these majestic, ancient trees. So, more than 500 firefighters are on the ground. There are hot shot crews digging trenches around those ancient sequoias. And as you mentioned, there's that sprinkler system, a very newfangled gadget to save a 3,000 year old tree. We've also seen air drops of retardant to try and suppress and contain this fire before it reaches these trees.

Now, this is a very difficult area in which to fight fires. There are dead trees still standing, which pose a great danger to those firefighters. It's hilly terrain. It's rocky. It's woody. It is difficult to get in there. But what firefighters do have on their side is burn scars from previous fires. And the hope is that today the fire will reach those scars and the scars will then slow the flames down.

Now, also in danger, the historic Wawona Hotel, more than 150 years old.

[09:30:00] That has been evacuated. The southern entrance to the park is closed right now.