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Tomorrow's Testimony Aims To Examine Connections Between Far- Right Extremist Groups, Trump Advisers; Judge Rejects Bannon's Request For Contempt Trial Delay; Former Gov. Bill Richardson Expected To Go To Moscow And Try To Secure Release Of Britney Griner, Paul Whelan; Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) Discusses About The Effort Of Bill Richardson To Try To Secure A Release Of Brittney Griner And Paul Whelan. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 11, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. ERIC TOPOL, DIR. SCRIPPS RESEARCH TRANSLATIONAL INSTITUTE: That's how we can increase protection against BA.5.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: So we heard there, Alisyn, boosters masking, they're all still very important tools to protect us right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: That is not welcome news, by the way, that people want to hear that there's this subvariant out there. But Jacqueline Howard, thank you for alerting us.

It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We're learning more about what the January 6 Committee is planning for tomorrow's televised hearing. The Committee plans to question a former spokesperson for the extremist group known as the Oath Keepers. Investigators say they will show the extensive planning that went into the capital attack and the possible connections between these alt- right groups and Donald Trump and his advisors. CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us live. So what will we see tomorrow, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is going to be the latest in an effort by the Committee to show Donald Trump's actions leading to the violence that occurred here that day. We've already seen this committee detail how Donald Trump pressured all aspects of the government to try to overturn the electoral results, whether it was the Justice Department, state officials, even Vice President Mike Pence.

And tomorrow at the hearing, they plan to show how Donald Trump's actions led to those extremist groups, the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys to take action leading to so much violence that we saw in this building on January 6th. We will hear live testimony from one former member of the Oath Keepers, a former spokesperson, Jason Van Tatenhove, who describes himself as a propagandist, someone he said had a lot of inside information according to what he told Colorado TV station. He said he had inside access to the Oath Keepers, so we'll learn about that.

And we'll also learn about a meeting that occurred in mid-December, December 18th, with Jamie Raskin, the Congressman from Maryland who plans to lead the questioning tomorrow says will be a key focus of the hearing tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): One of the things that people are going to learn is the fundamental importance of a meeting that took place in the White House on December the 18th. And on that day, the group of lawyers, of outside lawyers who have been denominated team crazy by people in and around the White House, came in to try to urge several new courses of action, including the seizure of voting machines around the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, this is expected to be the final hearing of this week after the Committee decided to postpone plans that were in the works were not official yet for a Thursday hearing. Now, we do expect future hearings on this topic, but expect tomorrow to be the final hearing this week as they examine those extremist groups and their actions on that day.

CAMEROTA: Manu, what about what happened last week? We know that the Committee talked to the former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone behind closed doors. Are we going to learn what he said?

RAJU: Almost certainly we'll learn snippets of it. We've seen throughout the course of these hearings that they will show snippets of video depositions that they've gotten from key Trump officials. Pat Cipollone of being one of the most important officials, someone who was involved in so many key conversations with Donald Trump in and around January 6th. Someone who tried to advise the President against doing things according to the testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson against going to the Capitol on January 6th, that day after he spoke at that rally.

Now, it's unclear exactly what we will hear from the revelations from this deposition. But that occurred over the course of roughly eight hours and the Committee has said that he corroborated key aspects of almost every element of its investigation. So undoubtedly, Alisyn, we'll hear tomorrow more from Cipollone not just of that hearing but also potential future hearings ahead, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Manu Raju, thank you very much.

All right. So days before Bannon's criminal contempt trial was going to begin, a judge just rejected a request from Bannon who was a former Trump strategist. He was asking for a delay, but he also just had a major change of heart saying he actually is willing to testify in the January 6 investigation. CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins me live. Evan, what's going on here?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like Steve Bannon's change of heart may have been influenced by information he recently received from the Justice Department. We'll get to that in just a minute, Alisyn. But importantly, a judge today ruled that Bannon's trial - it was scheduled for Monday, it is going to go ahead as planned. Bannon was trying to delay that trial.

He also is now being told he's limited in what he can say as part of his defense. He's not allowed to claim, make these claims about executive privilege as the reason for why he is in this predicament. But as you pointed out, Bannon suddenly has decided that he wants to testify to the January 6 Committee. Of course, this is one of the charges that he is facing. He's facing two counts, one of them for defying this subpoena from the Committee for testimony.

[15:05:02]

A second count is for failure to turn over documents that the Committee had subpoenaed. And it appears that we now know, at least, part of the reason why Bannon has had this change of heart. We learned from a court filing from prosecutors that about two weeks ago, Justin Clark, who is a Trump attorney, he was interviewed by the FBI and he told the FBI agents that that he never told Bannon's legal team that he had a blanket claim of protection from executive privilege that the former president has been claiming that he never had that kind of protection.

So that really blew a hole in the entire defense that Steve Bannon was trying to present, which was that he can't testify because he was being protected by executive privilege. So now we know the trial is going to go as planned and he won't be able to say that he was acting because of the President's claim of privilege.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Also, the DOJ has this new court filing regarding the extremist group, the Oath Keepers. What does it say?

PEREZ: Well, we learned from this filing, we learned a little more from this filing, Alisyn, that some of these - obviously, we know that there was a lot of violence connected to this group. But prosecutors say that there was - there were things like explosives that they were prepared to bring in to Washington that day, that they had training sessions on conventional warfare.

Obviously, prosecutors trying to portray that this group had serious violence planned ahead of time of January 6, that this wasn't just a spontaneous riot that this was something that was very well planned. They had a death list for officials that they wanted to get after. And again, it really paints a picture of what prosecutors say was a serious danger that this group presented on January 6. They're facing very serious charges, including seditious conspiracy, so that trial is coming up in the next few weeks, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Okay. Evan Perez, thank you very much for all that reporting.

Let's bring in Harry Litman. He's a former U.S. attorney and a former Deputy Assistant Attorney General. Let's also bring in Errol Louis. He's our CNN Political Commentator and a Political Anchor for Spectrum News. Errol - both gentlemen, great to see you.

Errol, why does Steve Bannon now want to testify before the Committee after he's had his chance for months?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is trying to delay the inevitable and the inevitable is this trial for contempt of Congress, because he - it's okay to assert your privilege of - against self- incrimination. Everybody has that right. It's okay even to make a bogus claim of executive privilege, but you have to show up and do it and Steve Bannon didn't even bother to show up and that's why his trial is scheduled to begin and that's why he will almost certainly lose that case.

And this was a last ditch effort because they sent legal papers saying, hey, let's delay the trial just a little bit more, because I want to go and engage in a political circus before the January 6 Committee. And the Committee wants nothing to do with this and so he will have to answer for his actions in disregarding their subpoena for all of these months.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And the judge has just decided that that trial will start on time.

LOUIS: Oh, yes.

CAMEROTA: That he is not going to delay it.

So Harry, this whole executive privilege question that Steve Bannon was trying to assert, it sounds like it never existed to begin with. But then Donald Trump sent a letter to the Committee saying, basically I lift the executive privilege or I waive it or whatever. Why would Donald Trump want Steve Bannon to testify?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It's a ham-handed ploy by to scoundrels. Why would Trump want it? Well, maybe if Bannon would go and pontificate and do his Bannon grandstanding Trump who has been frustrated that it's all been on one side would be happy. But that's never going to happen from the Committee's point of view. Everything is completely choreographed and they're not going to let him just come on in there and start expounding Bannon crazy theories. They would have to depose him, even Cassidy Hutchinson was deposed four times, they're being very, very careful that everything that happens there they know.

In terms of Bannon, it's absolutely a - an attempt to say, oh, I now can go forward. Meaning that I was - I wasn't violating the law before because Trump had not given me permission. But that was wrong in six ways, including this recent lawyer thing, but Trump didn't have the executive privilege. Bannon didn't come close to qualifying. It's really just, just a ham-handed ploy by people whose reputations precede them, so they are generating a lot of skepticism from the Committee. I don't look to - for this to happen for a second.

CAMEROTA: I can see why the Committee would want to interview Steve Bannon because, Errol, he said something on his podcast the day before January 6th that I think raises some questions. I mean, I think they would we certainly want to say why were you so confident in this prediction, so let's remind people of what he said.

[15:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, LONGTIME TRUMP POLITICAL ADVISER: All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. It's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, okay? It's going to be quite extraordinarily different and all I can say is strap in, the War Room posse. You have made this happen and tomorrow it's game day, so strap in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So now that he says he will testify, shouldn't they ask him about that?

LOUIS: Oh, he's going to have to answer that and believe me, it'll come up in his trial as well. I mean, this is somebody who is a talk radio host, who talked himself into a pot of hot soup. He was so determined to sort of have that sly moment, oh, all hell is going to break loose. Stay tuned, we're going to go to a commercial break.

And in the course of being bombastic and sort of letting people know that he was an insider, he has now alerted both the Congress and the Department of Justice that he is an insider and that he has to answer under oath, both for his actions and what he knew to either corroborate or actually maybe explain what level of culpability he might have had in the violent actions that he so gleefully predicted the day before.

CAMEROTA: Harry, let's talk about what's going to happen tomorrow. So they're going to interview, as far as we know, this self-proclaimed propagandist from the Oath Keepers who says that he was never a member of the group but knows how they operate and I assume they're going to try - to ask him if he was connected to anybody in Trump's orbit.

LITMAN: Yes. So that's the whole point, including what we were just talking about with Bannon. And it's potentially huge, because we have - the nastiest stuff possible on the ground, just bloodthirsty terrorists we're talking about. But Bannon or anybody in Congress as they've been teasing, the real question is how are you going to tie it to Trump. Schiff has talked about a confluence of interest, but they supposedly are going to bring something more concrete forward. And that would be the biggest missing piece of the puzzle.

Tomorrow, I think we'll really see a vivid picture of the nastiest criminal enterprise on the part of the Oath Keepers and then it'll - it will come to the following hearings, and maybe a little bit tomorrow to try to bridge it together from the White House, possibly through Stone, and Giuliani, and Bannon and the like.

CAMEROTA: Errol, what - well, you'll be watching for tomorrow and do you think we'll learn more about what Pat Cipollone said behind closed doors? LOUIS: I think we'll be able to either interpolate it or see the

extent to which they have used it to corroborate what we already knew. And they've produced this so well that I think they're going to use him as effectively as they can to sort of say, he's reliable, he confirms everything that we already knew and he's giving us some new insights, I'll be listening both for the new insights, but increasingly, I have to say, Alisyn, I'm going to be listening for what this committee is going to do.

I mean, in the end - at the end of the day, these are congressional hearings and they're going to make some recommendations, possibly about legislation, about what the States can do to protect themselves. This has painted such a gripping picture of democracy under attack. We have so many different areas where we need to shore up the democracy and that includes making clear what the Electoral Count Act is and what the Vice President's role is on the critical day.

But then also things like how do you protect the capital from future attacks, how do you make sure that we're never caught this unprepared again.

CAMEROTA: And if they're wrapping up, Errol, will they be saying some of those things? Will they be - are they ready to tell the public what their recommendations are?

LOUIS: The all indications are that. They're learning so much new stuff that new people are coming forward, that they're - they postpone the Thursday hearing. They may have more work to do before they can start to conclude it.

CAMEROTA: Harry, this tweet that the President sent on December 19th, "Big protests in DC on January 6. Be there, will be wild." Is he illegally - is that legally damning to him?

LITMAN: Look, I think so and the testimony from Hutchinson, what is damning now for him is whether he knows about the violence, which is in effect, is he a member of a seditious conspiracy. That was called, a siren call and we have Oath Keepers who I think have said the same. They were there and we showed up because the President wanted us to.

Likewise, all the other information that he knew what was happening and even tried to foment the violence on the 6th, that puts him in a - in the most serious category of offenders seditious conspirators and inciting of a riot. That's the big bad charge here.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Harry Litman, Errol Louis, thank you both very much.

Our special coverage of the January 6 Committee hearing kicks off at 11 am tomorrow.

And this weekend, join Drew Griffin for a new investigation into Steve Bannon and his master plan to reshape the U.S. government and the Republican Party. Our CNN Special Report Divided We Fall begins at 8 pm on Sunday.

All right. There's a new effort to free WNBA star Brittney Griner from Russian prison.

[15:15:02]

What diplomats and lawmakers are doing next?

And we have new details about the surveillance video that shows police officers waiting in the hallway of that Uvalde elementary school while a gunman was opening fire on children.

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[15:19:38]

CAMEROTA: Former New Mexico governor and Ambassador Bill Richardson is set to go to Moscow within weeks in an effort to try to free to detained Americans, WNBA star Brittney Griner and former Marine Paul Whelan. Richardson helped secure the release of Trevor Reed from Russia earlier this year. Griner has pleaded guilty to drug smuggling charges. She said she was in a hurry packing and put two tiny vials of cannabis oil in her bag accidentally. She could face 10 years in prison in Russia.

[15:20:08]

In the past week, President Biden spoke separately with both Griner's wife and Whelan's sister. With us now is Democratic Congresswoman of Texas Sheila Jackson Lee. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here.

I know you've been working also to try to free Brittney Griner. Do you think that Ambassador Richardson going there can make that happen?

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, Alisyn, thank you for having me this afternoon. As you well know, Russia held the very fact that they had Brittney Griner for at least 10 days and her capture was right after Putin's embarrassment at the Olympics. So there is a lot that is swirling around the capturing and the fact that she is a captive, I believe, at the directions of Vladimir Putin.

So we welcome anyone and certainly the former governor has the credentials to engage with those who would help us bring Brittney Griner home. But also I have said over and over again and as we have been working in the United States Congress, we passed legislation to demand that she'd be immediately released. I spent the last week at the organization of security and cooperation for Europe, taking to the floor to draw the 57 nations to the idea of releasing her and releasing the other political prisoners.

I think it is a combined effort, but the real key, Alisyn, is a negotiation by a sovereign nation with a sovereign nation. It is going to be the work that is being done by the individuals in the United States government directly engaging with Russia, and directly speaking about what is it that Putin wants, not the Russian government, not the judge, not the legal system that does not exist. Because whatever Brittney does, she will be found guilty, she will continue to sit in a cage. So we are now pushing United States government to draw out of Russia

that likes to play games, the want, the definitive want and I want that want to be given because it has no merit, no value that is superior to Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan coming home.

CAMEROTA: And do you think the Biden administration has done everything they can to get her home?

LEE: Well, I think for a period of time, they were having to not act now that they have been able to designate Brittney as a person wrongfully detained. I call her a hostage, if you will. I believe they are going full speed and I think they have gotten that confidence of chiral (ph) and all the people that love and cherish her, her family in Houston, mother and father, and sister and all of her relatives.

So I have a confidence, a sense of confidence that they are going full steam ahead on the negotiations. The real key is, let me just say this, Alisyn. Alisyn, Brittney was supposed to have a call with her wife. It is Russia that has dangled, and danced and refused to cooperate so that that call can go through. That's what we're dealing with. We're dealing with cruelty. We're dealing with playing and utilizing Brittney Griner as a celebrity ploy and toy. I just won't stand for it.

And so my efforts with the government, along with my colleagues, with the administration is to go full steam ahead, push down Vladimir Putin to the wall, push his operatives to the wall, what is it you want and let's get on with it because I'm concerned about her health, I'm concerned about Paul Whelan's health and I don't know if Putin wants to have that international crisis on his hands and we will sure make it that if he doesn't hurry up and get to the table or get his operatives to the table. That's what we're fighting for, Alisyn, and I think we're going to get there.

CAMEROTA: So Congresswoman, what if his ask is, okay, I'll trade them for conducted arms dealer, Viktor Bout, who's serving a 25-year sentence for providing weapons to people who wanted to kill Americans. Is that a fair - would you support a trade of Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan for that convicted arms dealer?

LEE: I don't want to represent what the negotiations are, but let me personally say I would, because I've done a little research about this arms dealer. First of all, he's worn out his welcome. He had a 25-year sentence. He served most of it. He's antiquated and dated. And so his detriment is not going to be that much at this time.

Frankly, we were able to catch him in Thailand. He uses antiquated old tactics and equipment. So once releasing him, I can assure you he will not be out of the eyesight of those who need to have him, under their eyesight here in the United States, that's just what we do.

[15:25:02]

But what the ultimate swap may be, I don't want to project, but I'm ready to utilize anyone because I believe that if they have been incarcerated here, of course, our system is much fairer. They have been incarcerated, they've been in jail, they've been punished and frankly, these two Americans deserve the power of their nation to help bring them home.

They are not arms dealer. They're not drug dealers. Do you know that they are charging her with smuggling that she's a major transport of drugs? Is that frivolous? Is that outrageous? That's because she's a captive. She's Putin's toy, ploy that he's trying to use to either embarrass us.

And by the way, I carried the legislation, the anti-doping legislation that directly responded to Russia's doping that they did in the previous Olympics. And, of course, they were caught red handed in this Olympics. I just think that they saw her as a way to embarrass the United States for no reason whatsoever, because she is not any of the things that she's been charged with and we really need to bring her home.

She's a good person, a good hearted person, loved by many, charitable in her community and she's one of ours. She grew up in Houston, went to Nimitz High School, went to Baylor and she's an outstanding athlete. The question is: "What is the purpose of holding her other than to really put it in the eye of the United States?" Well, we don't take that. We're not going to take it and so I think we are strongly negotiating and we're going to look forward to some relief.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman, I have a political question for you before we let you go, President Biden's poll numbers are sinking, a New York Times-Siena College poll found 64 percent of registered voters, if voting in the Democratic primary would prefer someone other than Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee in 2024. What's your reaction to that?

LEE: Alisyn, today, I think, is July 11th. I'm a fighter. Joe Biden is a fighter, Kamala Harris. The elections are in November. Oil prices, gasoline costs at the pump is going down. All that we have committed to doing, we are doing, including money going out on the street with the bipartisan infrastructure bill, just passing a real first step in gun safety, even advocating for banning assault weapons, making sure that we get baby formula back where it needs to be on the shelves and in the hands of parents.

So I've really looked at those numbers, yes, as dissatisfaction as the frustration of the summer, the heat, but I'm ready for the fall. When we really turn that election around after Labor Day and all the groups that have been supporting Joe Biden, get ready, get busy to really make a difference in the 2022 election, we know that we're winning some Senate races. It couldn't be that bad that we're winning potential Senate races in Pennsylvania and Georgia, and a number of other places around the nation. We may be in the majority in the Senate and who knows, don't count us out in the house, those are all numbers that are somewhat tied to Joe Biden.

As I said, he is a fighter. I'm not ready to throw in the towel nor am I ready to say that Democrats have voted their final vote in terms of saying we want someone else. Let's see what happens in the fall as we push forward to win. My encouragement to Democrats is tighten up, unify, you've got a real good chance of holding the Senate and even holding the House, I'm going to say, holding the House.

And you will see the kinds of commitment we have. The last point is who is going to help you with Roe v. Wade taking your very essence of the freedom of your bodies of reproductive rights. It's got to be Joe Biden. It's got to be the Democratic Congress, House and Senate. You need Joe Biden. We need Joe Biden and you're going to see that in the fall as we go pushing forward for victory.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, thank you for your time.

LEE: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: All right. Uvalde county commissioners are pleading with Texas lawmakers to change the State's gun laws.

Plus, new details about the surveillance video that shows police just feet away from that classroom where the gunman was on a rampage.

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