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Inflation Reached 40-Year High In June Of 9.1 Percent; Rep. Stacey Plaskett (D-VI) Discusses About Her Take On Last January 6 Committee Hearing; Footage Shows Officers Waiting As Gunman Opened Fire. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 13, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. Thanks for staying with us.

Inflation surged to 9.1 percent in June. It is the highest year over year jump in consumer prices since 1981. Now, the Bureau of Labor Statistics report surpassed what many experts predicted; high gas prices were a major factor up nearly 60 percent compared to last June. Now, President Biden called the inflation rate unacceptably high, but he added that it's out of date as prices at the pump are dropping.

CNN Business Reporter Matt Egan is with us now. So what more does the report tell us, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Victor and Alisyn, I mean, inflation keeps getting hotter and hotter. Remember, the Federal Reserve targets 2 percent inflation, that's what they consider healthy. We are nowhere near there. We keep moving further and further away. I mean, many of us have literally never lived through a period of high inflation like this one and it's painful, because it means paychecks are not going as far. I mean, if you adjust wages for inflation, they're actually getting smaller.

And so the President is right to call out the fact that this report does not capture the fact that gasoline prices have started to cool off. The national average is $4.63 a gallon. It's down by nearly $0.40 from the record high last month.

But two things to remember here: One; it's not like prices at the pump are cheap. No one is going to be doing a victory dance about $4.60 gas. And two; this is not just about prices at the pump. I mean, it's also about food. It's about housing prices. I mean, there were record price spikes last month and everything from beer and haircuts to cleaning products and Victor men's suits as well. So this is an economy wide problem and unfortunately it's getting worse.

BLACKWELL: How come you didn't mentioned me for haircuts? CAMEROTA: Yes, why not?

EGAN: No reason. There was no reason.

BLACKWELL: Not at all?

EGAN: No.

BLACKWELL: Okay, (inaudible) ...

CAMEROTA: Does this report raise the risk of recession?

EGAN: It probably does. I mean, the Federal Reserve is going to be under even more pressure to step up its war on inflation, right? They have to step in like the firefighter, try to cool things off by raising interest rates. Last month, they raised rates by three- quarters of a percentage point, the biggest hike since 1994. They're going to have to consider doing at least that much this time.

I mean, the Atlanta Fed President, Raphael Bostic, was asked by reporters about whether or not the Fed could do a full percentage point rate increase. And he said, quote, "Everything is in play." I mean, the problem is the harder the Fed slams the brakes on the economy, the greater the risk of an accident that causes a recession. The Fed insists that they can pull this off, get a soft landing, get inflation under control without causing a recession. I think that job just got tougher today.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Matt Egan, thank you.

EGAN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Let's discuss now with former Labor Secretary under President Clinton, Robert Reich. He is also the Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at Berkeley and the author of The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It. Mr. Secretary, welcome back.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER U.S. LABOR SECRETARY UNDER CLINTON: Hi, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Let's start here with just your reaction to the number 9.1 percent, the estimate was 8.8 percent year-over-year, your thoughts on what we now know about the economy?

REICH: Well, it's terrible. And if you break it down, it becomes even more disturbing. I mean, obviously, energy and food are a global phenomenon. We see inflation all around the world. And we've seen energy and food inflation, especially because of what's going on in Ukraine and around the world. China has locked downs that are affecting supply problems around the world. So this is, to some extent, to be expected.

What caught my eye was rents. Rents is not a global phenomenon. And United States rents about a third of the typical households income go to rents. Rents are skyrocketing, in part, because ironically, the Fed is raising interest rates which are raising mortgage rates and a lot of people can't afford homes. They can't - they couldn't even afford them before and now they've got to squeeze into a rental market, which is getting harder and harder to squeeze into.

BLACKWELL: Yes. You mentioned the influence of what's happening in Ukraine, of course, the sanctions as well. Dylan Ratigan, financial analyst, who was on with us last hour said that it is time to adjust the sanctions, that if the President is looking for something to do to impact inflation here in the U.S., that is one way to do it. What do you think about that suggestion?

REICH: Well, these are all tradeoffs, Victor. I'm obviously as concerned as anybody else about Russia's aggression in Ukraine. I don't want to do anything that's - that makes it easier for Russia to do what it's doing. So that kind of a trade off to me, to my values is not something that I would accept.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about the potential for what is next from the Fed. They've got a - the meeting in two weeks from now and the last interest rate increase was three quarters of a percentage point.

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We just heard from Matt that maybe a full point is on the table. You think that's plausible, probable that I could be a full point?

REICH: I think it's - I - yes, Victor, I think it's probable. The Fed is obviously spooked by this inflation. They feel like they got in the action too late. They remember the early 1980s even if they don't directly remember it, they remember the history, which Paul - Paul Volcker had to raise interest rates so high to break the back of what was then double digit inflation, that he brought the economy to its knees.

Now, obviously, the Fed doesn't want to do that. But there is a danger of the Fed over reacting, particularly because might it - many of the items we're seeing the price increases are in the areas of the economy where companies are scoring record profits. I mean, just look at oil companies, oil companies have never had it so good. They are enjoying record profits. Why not instead of relying on the Fed relying on a windfall profits tax, I mean, even the conservative government in Britain has imposed a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Well, of course, that's going to take some input from Congress, obviously, and that's an understatement. We'll see how far that's going. It doesn't look like it's going to get very far. But the President will be in Saudi Arabia at the end of the week and, of course, energy part of the conversation there. Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich, always good to have you, sir. Thank you very much.

REICH: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. The House committee investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol has begun to hand over information now to the Justice Department, which the DOJ has been asking for.

CAMEROTA: The Committee will hold its eighth and possibly final hearing next Thursday and a committee member gave a preview.

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REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): But what we're going to see next week is what happened during that 187 minutes when in the first minute or first one or two minutes, I think any other president would have moved very quickly to try to prevent violence and bloodshed and an attack on the Capitol. But more than three hours went by before Donald Trump said much of anything and even then it was qualified and dilute, but that story is coming.

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CAMEROTA: Well, CNN Congressional Correspondent Ryan Nobles joins us now from Capitol Hill. Ryan, we understand that you have some breaking details on the allegation that Donald Trump tried to tamper with a potential witness.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. The Committee Chairman, Bennie Thompson, talking to a group of us reporters to give it just a little bit more insight into why the Committee believes that the Committee has a problem with Donald Trump placing a phone call to this witness who they've not named.

Thompson saying that the Committee has not actually formally deposed this witness, but he did explain why they feel that this phone call from President Trump was inappropriate. Take a listen.

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REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Well, we don't know because he didn't - the call never went through. And that's a concern that we have is even the attempt raises a question, but it's one that we think is better handled by the Department of Justice. If they think that this is something they need to look into, then they will.

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NOBLES: So it is significant that the Committee decided that this circumstance was so important that they would hand it over to the Department of Justice. But there is a lot of information lacking here is if why just a simple phone call that never went answered and then was immediately handed over to a lawyer would rise to the level of witness intimidation. But this is something the Committee has said from the very beginning that they are taking seriously.

The big question we have now Victor and Alisyn is, of course, who is this witness and what of any communication have they had with the Committee. Just because they haven't been formally deposed, that doesn't mean that they haven't had informal conversations or engagement with their attorney. So Bennie Thompson did tell me though that in the days ahead, we're going to learn a lot more about this witness and their role in the investigation.

BLACKWELL: All right, good there. Do we know what the Committee has handed over to the DOJ?

NOBLES: We do now, Victor. Bennie Thompson revealing to us today that the first batch of information that they're working to hand over to the Department of Justice involves the plot to submit a fake set of electors to the United States Congress and it's significant because we know that the Department of Justice investigation has expanded, particularly their investigation into efforts to overturn the election.

We did not know just how interested they were in the fake electoral plot. So the fact that they've asked for that information and the Committee's begun that process is significant. And Thompson also told us that this is just the beginning of a process that they're going to continue to work with the DOJ and ask for engagement on a number of other topics and begin the process of them, providing them access to some of the documents and transcribed interviews that the Committee has.

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As we already know, the Department of Justice has specifically asked for information regarding the many court cases that they're prosecuting as it relates to members of the Proud Boys and other Capitol rioters. So Thompson saying today, this is just the beginning of a process, but it's taken a while to get here, as you both know, for a long time, the Committee was resistant to provide this information, because they - it felt it was their work product that they put so much effort in, and they weren't just going to hand it over willy-nilly. Well, now that process is beginning.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Ryan Nobles, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Joining us now is Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett of the U.S. Virgin Islands. She served as an impeachment manager when Donald Trump was impeached for the attack on the Capitol. Congresswoman, thanks so much for your time and for being here. What has changed today as a result of what we heard yesterday during the hearing?

REP. STACEY PLASKETT (D-VI): Well, I think what we've seen for the American people is a real dotting of all of the Is and a straight line from the attack on the Capitol and the attempted overthrow of our government to Donald Trump and his minions sitting in the Oval Office, plotting and planning this from as far back as December.

When I was the impeachment - one of the impeachment managers, I talked about Donald Trump actually changing the permit from the rioters and the rally, not just being at the eclipse, but it also - Ellipse - but it moving over to the Capitol. And now we see clear evidence both direct evidence in terms of tweets and discussions as well as circumstantial evidence in the actions of the President, that it was his plan all along?

CAMEROTA: Yes. But Congresswoman, can you connect those dots a little bit more clearly for us? Because, yes, we see the tweet that the extremists took as a call to action and a call to arms, but have you seen the nexus between someone in the Trump White House is speaking directly to one of those extremists and planning something? PLASKETT: Well, we've seen the President himself doing a draft tweet

that was to let people know that they were supposed to go to the Capitol during the rally. We also know that the President himself was the individual who wanted the permit for the rally to go to the Capitol. We also know that there is evidence that those individuals who were surrounding him were planning to set up a second rally point, a second area for the president staging at the Supreme Court.

So the notion that the President just happenstance in his remarks decided at the last minute that everyone should march to the Capitol is an untruth.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PLASKETT: And we know from what the President has done that he's very capable of lying throughout his time and the evidence goes against what he has said and those around him as stated previously.

CAMEROTA: Yes. There certainly seemed to be a lot of evidence that was presented that it wasn't a spontaneous rally that spontaneously marched to the Capitol. But again, did you hear anything? The reason I asked is because the chair, Congressman Bennie Thompson had said last month that he would be - I mean, he had basically suggested that yes, there would be a direct line between the White House and the extremists and have - has that line been drawn yet?

PLASKETT: Well, I think what we've seen from the extremists is that they took the words of the President and decided at that time that they were going to use his tweet to galvanize, that that tweet was sent out immediately after his meeting with individuals who realized that the legal ramifications - the legal attempts that they had made, creating martial law and others were not going to be feasible, that using the contraptions of the federal government were not available to him and therefore he was going to create his own army, that being the American public to come to the white - to the Capitol to attempt to stop the certification of the election.

If individuals can't see that clearly at this time, I believe it's because they don't want to see that. But I think you're going to see on Thursday even more evidence of what was happening at the time, the dereliction of duty of the President to stop the individuals if he didn't intend for them to overthrow, to attempt to riot and to storm the capital, then we know that in the 180 something minutes that the President would have attempted to stop it, he did not.

I think all of these put together have a clear and convincing case that the President himself was engaged in the attempt to overthrow the government through his own actions and I think that this is going to continue to be clear.

CAMEROTA: And so what do you expect the DOJ to do with all that?

PLASKETT: Well, having been a - I can't say what the Department of Justice is going to do. And let me say this that the - I think the January 6 Committee giving the evidence and the time that they have is appropriate. The Department of Justice has its own mechanisms to obtain evidence. They've had since January 21st when the - Merrick Garland was put in place afterwards to create their own evidence on what was clearly an attempted overthrow of the government.

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They have subpoena power and I'm sure that they've been collecting evidence. It makes sense for the January 6 Committee to attempt to tie together that evidence the evidence that they have and be able to bring it to them succinctly and in a correlated, cogent fashion and I think that that's what you've seen this January 6 Committee doing at this time as they are now in groups turning over that evidence.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett, thank you for your time. Great to talk to you.

PLASKETT: Thank you, mm-hm.

BLACKWELL: Renewed outrage in Uvalde, the surveillance video that shows the inaction of the officers while the gunman was killing children and teachers at Robb Elementary School.

CAMEROTA: And officials have a new COVID warning. This new variant is sweeping the country and it is the most contagious one yet. What you need to know, ahead.

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CAMEROTA: Many families of the children killed in the Uvalde school shooting are outraged over the release of surveillance footage and audio from inside the school during the shooting. Now, the families were scheduled to review this audio and - well, then, this video on Sunday with counselors present but a local newspaper and TV station aired it first.

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JAVIER CAZARES, FATHER OF UVALDE VICTIM: We are pissed. These families didn't deserve it, I don't deserve, that's a slap to our babies' faces.

ANGEL GARZA, FATHER OF 10-YEAR-OLD VICTIM AMERIE JO GARZA: The least you can do is have some freaking decency for us. That is unacceptable.

KIMBERLY RUBIO, MOTHER OF 10-YEAR-OLD LEXI RUBIO: He didn't have to do this. (Inaudible) hear children scream, having want to hear the gun fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP) I BLACKWELL: Now, this was first published by the Austin American- Statesman. Here's the video. You can see the gunman walking down this empty hallway. It's 11:33 am on May 24.

The first police officers arrive within three minutes, but the video shows officers waiting to intervene for more than an hour. And during those 77 minutes the shooter killed 19 children and two teachers.

CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe joins us now. He was the Deputy Director of the FBI. Andrew, good to see you again. Listen, when hearing the account from the Department of Public Safety several weeks ago and now seeing the video, it is compounded when you see the Uvalde Police Department, the County Sheriff's Department, the Texas Department of Public Safety, Texas Rangers, Border Patrol, Marshal Service on site and no one is saying we're not going to take the direction of the school police chief, this is absurd, we are going in. When you watch this video, what do you see?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It's offensive to watch somebody in law enforcement, Victor. It's - I mean, just - from a technical level as you watch this video, you see so many things that are obviously wrong or raise major questions, everything from the lackadaisical attitude that people are walking around using hand sanitizer and fist bumping each other, the fact that the first officers on scene who should have gone immediately to that gun, only three of them even go down the hall, the other two stay back and take a position of cover.

Once the entry is made, the rest of the officers in view seem to be surprised by that. They all react suddenly. It's just an absolute mess. But when you think about the fundamental oath, the fundamental responsibility that these people owed to those children was completely abrogated and disregarded. It's just - it's offensive to watch. I cannot imagine what those families are going through watching this.

CAMEROTA: I know. It's awful and listening to the audio, which we're not playing on CNN because it is so gut wrenching. But Andrew, I mean, I know you're not a psychologist, but when you look at that, is there some sort of groupthink that took over there where nobody wanted to defy the chain of command or act out on their own? I can't understand why no one of those 19 officers did something differently.

MCCABE: That's a really hard question to answer, Alisyn. I think it's not uncommon - one of the shortcomings of paramilitary organizations is an - in - sometimes in crisis situations, you have a - over degree of deference to leadership and direction. Now, that's also very important to keep people with the ability to use lethal force, properly overseeing and that sort of thing.

But here, it's hard to say where they are in that balance. They appear to be a group that is not - is not being led by anyone. It looks like just a complete mess. People looking at each other walking around not knowing what they're doing, there's no real focus. There's no obvious plan to how they're going down towards the target, towards the objective or when that happens. It's almost impossible to put yourself in their situation and ask that question, why didn't some small group of these people say the hell with it, this is our job. This is our duty. We're going in there and we'll sort out who's in trouble for it later.

BLACKWELL: Let's turn now to the latest hearing from the January 6 commission and we heard from several witnesses yesterday, one of them, Stephen Ayres, in which he was very clear about why he was there, whose call he was responding to and what initial - what eventually urged him to leave. Let's listen to this exchange.

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REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Would it made a difference to you to know that President Trump himself had no evidence of widespread fraud?

STEPHEN AYRES, CAPITOL RIOTER: Oh, definitely. Who knows I may not have come down here. Basically, when President Trump put his tweet out, we literally left right after that come out.

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BLACKWELL: Now, the legal analyst we've had said that the Committee did not make the connection, draw the direct connection from the President, the administration and those who committed violence. What is the degree of culpability when you hear that kind of response, that testimony from Stephen Ayres?

MCCABE: Well, putting aside criminal culpability, it's obvious that the people who really engaged on that day were absolutely following the words in the tweets and the direction of President Trump. There's no doubt about that. I think any reasonable person sitting in judgment of this, whether it's a jury later or just the American public today has to draw that conclusion. Do we have direct evidence of President Trump communicating with or people on President Trump's behalf communicating with the Proud Boys, of the Oath Keepers and these other violent groups, we really don't.

But there is no question, he sent up the signal, right? It was that tweet on the 19th, conversation with Steve Bannon the next day, the reaction by that community, when you string those things together, to me it paints a very damning portrait.

BLACKWELL: All right. Andrew McCabe, always good to have you. Thank you, sir.

MCCABE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: The country right now is in the grips of the most infectious strain of COVID yet. What you need to know about this new variant, that's next.

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