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Biden Won't Allow A Nuclear Iran; Trump Witness Tampering; Leading Inflation Indicator Surges; Geoff Duncan is Interviewed about the Georgia Grand Jury. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 14, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:46]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us.

A lot of news today. We are following several major stories this hour.

First, just released, a new inflation report continues to show inflation that is alarmingly high. The Producer Price Index found that the prices paid to American producers of goods and services jumped 11.3 percent compared to this time just a year ago.

SCIUTTO: Yes, higher than forecast.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: We are following that news.

Plus, a first on CNN. We are learning new information about a potential January 6th committee witness who the panel says got a call from former President Trump. Details on what he or she may know that could be key going forward.

And right now, President Biden, in Jerusalem, day two of a critical trip to the Middle East. This hour, he meets with the Israeli president, Isaac Hertzog, after signing a joint declaration with the prime minister to expand security ties, as well as work to counter Iran's nuclear threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We mean what we say. To have an opportunity to accept this agreement that's been laid down. If they don't, we made it absolutely clear, we will not -- let me say it again -- we will not allow Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, let's begin this hour with our Wolf Blitzer and our Kaitlan Collins, who join us again from Jerusalem. Wolf, to you first.

What stood out to you most from the comment, especially from the president there, on countering Iran. I thought your interview with David Sanger following the press conference pointed out a really important distinction in what the two said.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it was very clear that the Israelis, as much as the United States is concerned about Iran's nuclear weapons program, the Israelis are certainly a lot more concerned about it. They're much closer to Iran, for example, physically, geographically. So, they're deeply concerned.

And it's really significant that the president of the United States now says that the U.S. would, in fact, use military force against Iran, quote, as a last resort. And those words are really important, as a last resort. If Iran was getting closer and closer to building a bomb and having some sort of nuclear capability, to launch a nuclear weapon as a last resort, the U.S. would intervene.

And a lot of people are wondering, what does President Biden mean by a last resort, because I suspect his last resort is different than what the Israelis have in mind as far as a last resort is concerned. The Israelis are a lot more concerned. And presumably the Israelis would take military action even before the U.S. were to do so unless there was extensive, strategic cooperation between the U.S. and Israel on some sort of joint military operation, which I suspect is not necessarily in the works, that the Israelis would act unilaterally at that point.

But when the president of the United States uses the words "as a last resort," and, Kaitlan, you're here, you watch him very closely, the president of the United States, you're our chief White House correspondent, those are significant words.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They're incredibly significant. And what we've gleaned from officials in speaking with them, since it's more of a toughening of the language, a hardening of the language, they say it's not a new stance, but it's certainly -- we have not heard him express that sentiment, the last resort sentiment before. And so I do think you're seeing the president get further out there. And you can see today, the Israeli prime minister was pushing him saying that they need to do more to pressure Iran, making clear they have a very different view of what would work when it comes to countering Iran.

BLITZER: And this threat from Iran, and, Kaitlan, I'm sure you agree, and I want to the go back to, you know, to New York in just a moment, but this threat from Iran is hovering over all of these talks, not only between the U.S. and Israel, but potential talks later -- the president's going to be heading to Saudi Arabia, for example -- with the Saudis as well, because they are deeply concerned as well.

COLLINS: Absolutely. And you can see why. And their concern is stemmed from slowing down the nuclear program. Something they've sought to do. But they have differing views of how to do that. That was never more clear. We already knew that. But in that press conference it was very clear, Jim and Poppy and Wolf, in what exactly they believe should happen between the United States and between Israel.

BLITZER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And Iran's closer, frankly, to building able to build a bomb post leaving the Iran Nuclear Deal.

[09:05:01]

They've enriched far more uranium after the exit.

President Biden, Kaitlan, as you know, also asked about his visit to Saudi Arabia. Specifically, will he bring up the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi when he meets the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman. I thought it was notable, and we'll play it right now, he did not make that commitment.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My views on Khashoggi have made -- been absolutely, positively clear. And I have never been quiet about talking about human rights. The question that I'm -- the reason I'm going to Saudi Arabia, though, is much broader, is to promote U.S. interest, promote U.S. interest in a way that I think we have an opportunity to reassert what I think we made a mistake of walking away from, our influence in the Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: In your conversations with White House officials, are they saying that Biden will not specifically bring up the Khashoggi murder, or he's leaving his options open?

COLLINS: It's not clear at all. No officials have said, bluntly, that, yes, he will bring him up by name and confront the crown prince over it. And the president himself seemed to kind of answer that question, Jim, by saying his views of what happened to Khashoggi are clear.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: They certainly are. On the campaign trail, he said that believed Saudi Arabia should be made a pariah because of what happened. He believed it was a flat out murder of Jamal Khashoggi when he was butchered inside that consulate. And he said that there was little social redeeming value in the government. That's why it's placed so many question to President Biden, to U.S. officials about this upcoming meeting.

But he did not directly say, yes, he will bring it up. And I think that was pretty telling in and of itself of how they plan to handle what is going to be an awkward but delicately handled and what they're working on is a tightly choreographed meetings as officials inside the U.S. government are bracing for when he comes face-to-face with the crown prince.

SCIUTTO: Yes, Khashoggi was a U.S. resident at the time of his murder.

Kaitlan Collins, Wolf Blitzer, in Jerusalem, thanks so much.

Back here at home, first on CNN, new details about a White House support staffer who apparently avoided a call from former President Trump regarding his or her testimony. We still don't have a name. But sources tell us Trump tried to contact someone who was speaking with the January 6th committee. Those sources also telling CNN the staffer was in a position to corroborate part of the testimony of former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins me now.

I mean this was a notable moment in the most recent hearing. Kind of the closing shot, as it were, to say, and, by the way, we have this other instance of potential witness tampering here.

What do we know about the witness and the call?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting because, as you said, this is the third instance of witness tampering that the committee has referenced. And they all revolve around Cassidy Hutchinson and her explosive testimony at the end of June.

So, this one in particular, it involves a support staffer who didn't have regular communication with Trump. So this staffer, when the phone call came in, they didn't take it, and they contacted their attorney, who then turned to the committee to report it.

So, we don't know a lot about this staffer. We don't know who exactly it is, the name, except that it was a support staffer who might be able to corroborate Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony or part of it.

So, the committee has now since informed the DOJ. The Justice Department, though, not commenting here. And it's interesting because those other two instances of witness tampering, they also involved Cassidy Hutchinson. We've learned that there were messages that she received in the leadup to her testimony from people who potentially were close to Trump.

So, there is a lot more to come out of the White House as well. The final, possibly, hearing slated for next week. And committee members actually there say that they will be focused on those final -- those 187 minutes when we didn't hear anything publicly from Trump as rioters were storming the Capitol.

Here's what committee member Elaine Luria has to say about what we should expect for the next hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELAINE LURIA (D-VA): I'll be chairing the last hearing with my colleague, Adam Kinzinger. And we're be focusing on that 187 minutes, the time from when the president left the stage at The Ellipse, until he made that Rose Garden video. And, you know, one would think that the president is only steps away from the ability to make a statement to the nation. And, you know, during that time, I look at it as a dereliction of duty. He didn't act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: And the committee presumably has a lot to build that narrative out from. They've interviewed, Jim, more than 1,000 witnesses so far. And particularly interesting will be what more we'll see from former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone. Last hearing we saw about a dozen clips. But it's expected that they'll focus a lot more on that closed-door deposition that he gave and built a lot more of a narrative around that potentially.

[09:10:01]

SCIUTTO: And it's CNN's reporting as well that Cipollone's testimony did not contradict Hutchinson's testimony.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And that was one of the main reasons, it seemed, that they called him to corroborate.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, well, this just in to CNN. Another key inflation measure just out and it is tough. Prices surging again in measure across the country. The Producer Price Index that measures the prices paid of - to producers of goods and services. It's up 11.3 percent from a year ago. This after the Consumer Price Index, right, what you, I, all of us pay at the store, at the pump, that hit a 41-year high last month.

Our business correspondent Rahel Solomon is with me in New York.

Another really terrible reading.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, another confirmation of what a lot of us already know.

The reason why today's report is so important, especially in this environment, is because it's the factory level inflation, right? And the theory is, and the idea is, what we see in this report gives us a sense of what we'll see in consumer prices a few months down the line.

So, when we look at sort of some of the factors behind this 11.3 percent over the last year, 1.1 percent over the last month, gas prices that mentioned quite a bit through this report. The good news and the hope moving forward, of course, is that crude prices have moved down about $20, $25 over the last month. Gasoline prices have come down. And so the hope is that especially if those declines continue, that will be better reflected and more reflected in data to come.

I should say, we also got some really important information on the jobs front. We got initial claims today. This is a weekly look at how many people are applying for unemployment benefits. Of course the jobs report is a monthly look. And so this is considered more of a real time picture of what's happening in the labor market.

We saw a bit of an increase, so 244,000 people applying for unemployment benefits last week. That's an increase of about 9,000 from the week before. Still low especially if you look at this chart of sort of where they've been the last year or so. Still low. But people have been watching very closely to see, are we starting to see some cracks in the labor market? We've got that jobs report last month that -- last week, for last month, that showed still a really strong jobs report.

HARLOW: Let me ask you just one quick follow-up. So, one of the top economists at the White House was on "NEW DAY" this morning, and one of the points she made on gas prices, which are down for 29 straight days, by the way, is -- her argument was essentially, oil prices have come down more than gas prices have come down.

Is that the case? Because the implication there was, she was calling on refiners and those who sell gas to cut prices more. Is that accurate?

SOLOMON: Well, it's an interesting question. So, crude prices make up 60 percent of what we see at the gasoline pump, right? So, crude prices have come down $20, $25 over the last month. The price at the pump has come down about 40 cents. So there is that.

The issue, though, is that a lot of these gasoline companies are run by small businesses. Their margins are small on the way up. And so when prices come down, they try to make up some of those margins.

Also, gasoline prices, as we all know, are quite volatile. And so there is some trepidation about sort of reducing the prices to quickly in case the cost of crude goes back up.

HARLOW: Oh, that's interesting.

SOLOMON: So, it's quite complicated. But the truth is, a lot of these gasoline stations are owned by mom and pop companies - mom and pop, you know, business owners, and so it's -- it's an interesting point. I think the truth is a little bit in the middle.

HARLOW: Yes. More to delve into.

Thank you very much, Rahel. We appreciate it.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, Senator Lindsey Graham is trying to get out of a subpoena from the Georgia grand jury investigating former President Trump's efforts there to overturn the election. I'm going to speak with a Georgia lawmaker who testified for that same grand jury just a couple of days ago.

HARLOW: Also ahead, authorities in Ohio have arrested this man, accused of raping a 10-year-old girl who later had to cross state lines to seek an abortion.

And later, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta will join us live with details on the surge in demand for monkeypox vaccines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:57]

SCIUTTO: Senator Lindsey Graham is trying to block a subpoena from the Georgia grand jury investigating former President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election there. Prosecutors want Graham to testify about phone calls he allegedly made in November 2020 to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. The same Republican former President Trump would later pressed to, quote, find the votes, just enough, necessary for him to claim victory in the state.

Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan testified before the Fulton County grand jury just two days ago and he joins me now.

Thanks for taking the time this morning.

LT. GOV. GEOFF DUNCAN (R-GA): Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: So, first on Graham's refusal here. You and other lawmakers also challenged the subpoena in court but did testify under a more limited scope.

I wonder, should Graham testify to the grand jury?

DUNCAN: Well, that's going to be up to the attorneys and the judge and the whole process. Our objection initially was just to make sure that we clarified what the legislative privilege actually meant in the judge's eyes. So, earlier this week, I did continue to cooperate with the grand jury. And, you know, I've been pretty vocal since within hours of Donald Trump first saying that there was a -- some sort of rigged election. So I've been at this for almost two years now. I've written a book. I've traveled around the country, all in an effort to try to keep my party, you know, on its feet.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I'm aware. And you've done the same on this broadcast before.

I know you can't share much, nature of testimony before a grand jury, but can you describe at all the scope of the questions that you faced?

DUNCAN: Well, just a wide ranging series of questions, like any other grand jury, just in a fact-finding, you know, pattern to just try to make sure they understand exactly, you know, what the lay of the land is.

You know, look, I think, you know, a lot like the January 6th, you know, this is about trying to find out exactly what happened. SCIUTTO: Yes.

DUNCAN: And, you know, I think the granular level of detail that Donald Trump and his super tight inner circle was playing in this is absolutely eye-opening.

SCIUTTO: You speak to Republican voters. You speak to Republican colleagues. In your view, and from those conversations, have the revelations from the January 6th investigation weakened Trump within this own party?

[09:20:05]

DUNCAN: Absolutely. I mean there's no way to say that January 6th, the events, the facts, the - that almost all Republicans testifying about the awful series of steps that led up to January 6th doesn't hurt him. You know, and I feel like this is almost one of these seat belt moments. You know, 30 years ago people were saying you shouldn't wear seat belts.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DUNCAN: You know, now that doesn't make a lot of sense. I think Republicans are waking up. And also the seriousness of the problems our country faces. Even Democrats are waking up realizing that we need to have a better direction forward. We need to have genuine leadership that tackles the big problems, that puts our country back in a position to lead the world.

SCIUTTO: Question on - and, by the way, I - of course, I know this is not your decision, whether the Georgia investigation leads to charges or whether the DOJ pursues charges against the former president. But, just, you know, there's a lot of questions as to what that would do for Trump politically. Would it hurt, or possibly help him within his party, to seem targeted, right, by such an investigation? I wonder what your view is.

DUNCAN: My view is, it's time to turn the page on Donald Trump. I think we are in that painful process of moving on.

Look, I think we have validated that an outsider, business-minded change agent can get things done in D.C. Now, let's find somebody with the ability to communicate, to not only to the right but to the middle and a real -- to roll out real solutions. You know, even Democrats are waking up to this. I saw a poll in "The New York Times" on Monday that two-thirds of Democrats don't want Joe Biden to run.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

DUNCAN: So, if you're - if you're a Republican and think you've just got a layup beating Joe Biden in 2024, that's not true. I think you're going to face somebody who's more competent, probably still liberal, but more competent. And so we've got to make sure we've got our game face on and we put somebody forward that can truly, genuinely capture the attention of Americans and lead this country in a better direction. SCIUTTO: Yes, you're right, the Republican and Democrat voters united

in that, that both majorities in both seem to want other options for 2024.

I do want to ask you about a Senate race, key Senate race in Georgia. You've been critical of the Republican candidate there, Herschel Walker. I want you to listen, I'm sure you've heard this already but our viewers may not, Walker, what he said during a GOP picnic in Hall County, Georgia.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERSCHEL WALKER, GEORGIA GOOP SENATE CANDIDATE: Since we don't control the air, our good air decided to float over to China's bad air. So when China gets our good air, their ad air got to move. So it moves over to our good air space. Then now we got to clean that back up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That in answer to a question about climate change.

I just wonder, in light of comments like this and others, right, where he's been proven to be less than truthful, in your view, is Walker qualified to serve in the U.S. Senate?

DUNCAN: Well, the part that troubles me, and this goes back to the post-election debacle and the runoff we had here with Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, is Georgia is a very conservative state and we should have two Republican U.S. senators representing us. That's not the case. There's a number of reasons why that happened.

You know, Rafael Warnock votes with Joe Biden 98 percent of the time and I just can't imagine that lines up.

Herschel Walker, we talked a lot about this in the primary. Obviously, he's a huge name. He won very, very easily in the primary process. We all knew he was going to have some tough question. I hope and wish that he continues to dive into the issues, understands them, articulates them, tackles this past, able to communicate about it, but it certainly is going to be a difficult road ahead for him.

SCIUTTO: You would - you'd vote for him over the Democratic candidate in the -- and support him over the Democratic candidate in the Senate race?

DUNCAN: I'm heavily rooting for a Republican to represent Georgia in the U.S. Senate.

SCIUTTO: Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan, thanks for joining the broadcast again.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

HARLOW: That was a great interview and a really important point there at the end, Jim.

All right, up next, we're going to speak with the Democratic lawmaker sponsoring a bill to protect abortion access. It's up for a vote tomorrow. We'll talk about what she's pushing for.

We are also just a few moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures pointing to, look, deeper losses after this morning's -- another bad inflation report. Investors are concerned over what this means and what the Fed is going to do. Could the Fed's actions push us into a recession?

And just yesterday, all three major indices tumbled after the Consumer Price Index showed prices surging the most since 1981.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:24]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Police in Ohio have arrested a man accused of raping and impregnating a 10-year-old girl. That girl had to cross state lines to receive an abortion.

Gerson Fuentes is charged with felony rape of a minor under 13.

SCIUTTO: The victim forced to travel to Indiana to terminate the pregnancy after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, which allowed Ohio's six-week abortion ban to take effect.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins us now from New York.

And, Jean, as you know, outlets, conservative outlets, right up to "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page, questioned whether this case was real. Now we know it is real. What are the details?

[09:30:00]

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here are the facts that we're learning. We're learning more because this is sort of an evolving story, even at this point.