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Russian Missiles Kill At Least 23 In Ukraine, Including 3 Children; Judge Rejects Bannon's Attempt To Delay Contempt-Of-Congress Trial; FL Synagogue Argues Abortion Restrictions Violate Religious Freedom In Lawsuit. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

BLACKWELL: At least 23 people, including three children are dead after a Russian cruise missile attack in the Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia.

CAMEROTA: Officials say many more people are still missing. More than 50 buildings were damaged. Ukrainian officials believe the missiles were launched by Russian submarines in the Black Sea. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy calls this an act of Russian terror.

CNN's Scott McLean is in Vinnytsia for us. So Scott, you had walked us through, I know it's dark now, tell us what's happening at this hour.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And now as it look, President Zelenskyy had also said in his remarks earlier today that people can't do this. He said the people who did this are animals, those are his words and I'll show you why he feels so strongly.

So if you look over here, you can see the fire crews there, trying to just get rid of all of the debris here from this office building. I can't show you the theater next door because it is dark, but the - one of the two missiles that landed in, in this area just absolutely obliterated the building.

Now, this is an office tower as well as well, it's maybe eight or nine storeys high and there's maybe only a half a dozen windows that actually survived the sheer strength of this blast. What's incredible is that there were two strikes, so one hit the theater, the other one hit in a parking lot over here not far from where these firefighters are working and the bottom portion of this building took the brunt of most of the blast.

Obviously, the windows were still blown out, but I spoke to people who are inside this building when it happened and they don't have a scratch on them. So they are undoubtedly the lucky ones. I even spoke to one man, I'll just take you over here quickly. Who was using the ATM machine, using the cash machine over here. And when the blast went off, he use just a pretty simple hood of the ATM machine to shelter himself from the blast. He only had one caught on him. He's lucky to be alive and he knows it.

Sorry, there's a bit of commotion here, but if I can just quickly take you across the street, I want to show you something in particular and it's this right here. These flowers, these stuffed animals are here in this particular place because this is where a three-year-old child was killed earlier today. There's still blood on the pavement.

This child was with her mother, who's now in the hospital fighting for her life and what stood out to me is that earlier on in the day, only about an hour or an hour and a half before the actual blast went off, this mother had posted on Instagram, a normal video that you would see any parent posting online. It showed her walking down the street and her three-year-old girl whose name is Liza (ph) pushing her own stroller along.

And you have to think, they had no idea, obviously, what was to come and you have to think any parent in the United States or anywhere in the world, that could be them. And now they're amongst the many victims of this. And I just want to point out as well quickly that some of the bodies here on sight, they've only managed to identify a few of them which tells you everything you need to know just about the state that the bodies are actually in.

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They now have dogs going through that theater looking for any other - people who may be in there, because there are still dozens of people still unaccounted for at this hour.

CAMEROTA: Scott, that is incredible to see that video of the three- year-old pushing her own stroller. It's the most relatable video. Every parent has that video in that moment and to know what happened after that is so devastating. Scott, thank you very much for your reporting.

Turning to Washington now, despite multiple attempts to delay his contempt of Congress trial, Steve Bannon will head to court on Monday. A judge today rejected his argument that the January 6 Committee hearings along with a new CNN documentary would create a biased jury.

The former Trump advisor is accused of failing to testify or turn over documents to the House Select Committee.

BLACKWELL: Now, CNN is also learning more about the Committee's witness who allegedly received an out of the blue phone call from former President Trump. Two sources tell CNN that witness is a former White House support staff member who was in a position to corroborate part of Cassidy Hutchinson's explosive testimony. CNN's Ryan Nobles is live on Capitol Hill.

We're going to start with Sara Murray. Sara, a judge is still trying to decide on evidence that Steve Bannon wants to present during this trial. What do you know?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's been a rough go for Steve Bannon, frankly, in front of this judge, the judge has made it clear that he cannot present a number of defenses that he wanted to present. But he did get a little bit of a glimmer of hope today, a judge said it's possible he will allow Bannon and his lawyers to introduce his most recent offer to testify in front of the January 6 Committee as evidence during his trial. So the judge is still weighing whether he's going to allow that to move forward.

And like you pointed out, Bannon has tried over and over again to stall this trial. He's pointed to the Committee hearings. He's pointed to a CNN documentary about him that is slated to premiere this Sunday. He's basically said I'm all over the news everywhere. I'll never get an unbiased jury. The judge is not buying that. He said we will sort this out during jury selection, make sure we have an unbiased jury, so that trial, that jury selection is set to start on Monday.

CAMEROTA: Okay. So Ryan, tell us what else we know about this reported phone call from Donald Trump to White House staff about January 6?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. What we've learned is a lot of information that explains at least in part why the Committee thought it was necessary to hand this information over to the Department of Justice for fear of witness intimidation.

We're told that this individual that got a call from the former President Donald Trump is someone that doesn't have regular contact with him. He is - the individual who is at the center of this is someone who worked as a White House support staff member, so not a political figure, not someone that worked in the Trump administration, but someone who was there to work as part of the White House staff and we're told this person could potentially corroborate parts of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony and the phone call they received from President Trump happened just a couple of days after Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony.

That's why they didn't take the call. That's why they gave it that information to their lawyer immediately, who then gave it to the January 6 Select Committee who handed it over to the Department of Justice. There's still not a lot that we know specifically about the call, like, for instance, why this individual thought he was getting a call from the former president, was there a voicemail, was he given a heads up or was this person, I should say, we don't know if it's a he or she, given a heads up ahead of time.

These are all things that we're trying to figure out right now. But at the very least, we do have a little bit more specifics as to why the Committee was so concerned about this.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Sara Murray, Ryan Nobles, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Harry Litman. He's a former U.S. attorney and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General and Michael Fanone. He's a former D.C. Metropolitan police officer who was there on January 6th. Michael, I want to start with you. You've - you're always so candid

about your thoughts as you watch these January 6 proceedings unfold. And I'm just curious what you think about Steve Bannon who on his own podcast is quite brazen and self-righteous. But then when it comes to having to testify to what he knows in public tries to fight it every which way?

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. Steve Bannon is a - I mean, he's an entertainment media personality. He defied a subpoena. And I mean, unfortunately, I don't think for Steve Bannon, he's going to be able to dance his way out of that. And I mean, he should go to prison. He blatantly defied the subpoena. It's enforceable by law. The Department of Justice had him, he was indicted. He should go to jail.

BLACKWELL: Harry, your thoughts on now the repeated efforts from Steve Bannon to try to delay, delay, delay this trial that's scheduled to start on Monday.

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HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes. They're really telling, aren't they? The same - as Michael says, this guy when he was first indicted, remember, he promised to make it the misdemeanor from hell. He was swaggering and then swashbuckling, but now looking right at the freight train of a trial and he's never had any defense to stand on. He's never had any claim of privilege. Obviously, he's looking for the exits, but he's got to face the music and now and it's, I think, constructive that his bravado has disappeared quickly.

CAMEROTA: Harry, I have a follow-up question, a legal follow-up question for you. There is this CNN documentary on Steve Bannon coming up this weekend, doesn't he - or does he have a point that that could taint the findings or taint the jury because it's going to be on national television?

LITMAN: Short answer is no. There's a lot of cases with notorious defendants, Alisyn, and the judge will take every prospective juror through questioning and will ask, are you able to give a fair verdict and we'll make a retail determination as to each one, nothing special about Bannon there. Anyone who watches it and says, I think the guy's squirrely, I'd have trouble being fair, will not serve on that jury.

BLACKWELL: Harry, let me stay with you and Steve Bannon as well, this audio recording that's been obtained by Mother Jones. It's Steve Bannon in October. This is four days before the election and he is here talking about the Trump plan. Here's what he says.

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STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: What Trump's going to do is just declare victory. Right. He's going to declare victory. But that doesn't mean he's the winner, he's just going to say he's the winner.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Now, that's exactly what happened. I mean, and let me read

what the - this spokesperson for Bannon says, "Nothing on the recording hasn't already been said on 'War Room' or in multiple other shows like 'The Circus' on Showtime. This is rehashing old news because the January 6 Committee is losing steam each and every day. They should have the courage to have Mr. Bannon come and testify publicly about these events." What's the potency of that audio considering that Donald Trump has played the 'I'm going to call it rigged' cards since 2015?

LITMAN: Yes. It's old news, but it's spectacular news. We're learning now, since Hutchinson's testimony, that Trump was directly not just involved in but wanting to orchestrate the violence. And when Bannon says something like that or the night before he says all hell's going to break loose, when insurrectionists know that he's going to the Capitol, when we learn all those things. It's very strong evidence that obviously there's a bigger plan afoot.

Now, there is a missing important piece of evidence that the DOJ will have to fill in at least to bring seditious conspiracy charges. That's the actual moment of an agreement. But we have now with Bannon, Roger Stone and others, a whole collection of people who likely were a sort of bridge between the Proud Boys on the ground and Trump and Meadows in the White House.

If there's an agreement there, he - Trump is liable, the same as he would be for any direct agreement with, say, the head of the Proud Boys himself.

CAMEROTA: Michael, just give us your impressions. I know you were in the hearing room this week and particularly when you hear that now there's evidence that former President Trump is - has been trying to reach out to witnesses and it appears to affect their testimony somehow.

FANONE: I mean, I haven't heard anything about whether or not it's affected their testimony. I mean, I know that, listen, receiving a phone call from the former president when you have participated in or have agreed to participate in the Select Committee proceedings, I could see how that would be intimidating.

But unfortunately, the standard is a hell of a whole lot higher than that. I mean, I received a pretty threatening phone call that called for the end of my life when I testified before the Select Committee last year. And that individual was identified, interviewed by the FBI and the Department of Justice came to the conclusion that even that did not meet the threshold for prosecution.

CAMEROTA: That's incredible, Michael. I mean, that has to be - that sends a shiver down my spine. That has to be really frustrating.

FANONE: Yes. I mean, unfortunately, it's - it wasn't the first and it's has not been the last unpleasant phone call or personal interaction that I've had surrounding my testimony and some of the conclusions that I've drawn about Donald Trump and his administration. BLACKWELL: Michael, let me ask you about a moment that happened at

the very end of the most recent 1-6 committee hearing. Stephen Ayres who testified he was there at the Capitol convicted for being there in the building during the riot.

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He apologized. He apologized to Officer Harry Dunn, we see him on the screen now. Officer Dunn says he acknowledged but did not accept that apology. What did he say to you? Did he apologize? Did you accept it?

FANONE: To be honest with you, I don't even remember what he said. It caught me so off guard. I know that he apologized in some way. I don't remember the exact words. But I'll tell you this, apologies to me are deeply personal and private moment. So the way that it was carried out, I found disingenuous.

And with regards to January 6th, I'm sorry, like, I am not anyone's rest stop on the road to redemption. So you can save your apologies. And that goes for anybody that was involved in January 6. And that's just how I feel personally. I mean, it's up to other officers, other individuals that were affected by that day to make their own decisions when it comes to accepting apologies. That's how I feel.

BLACKWELL: Michael Fanone, Harry Litman, thank you.

FANONE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: A synagogue in Florida says the state's new abortion law violates religious freedom and they're suing. We'll speak to that rabbi next.

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CAMEROTA: A Palm Beach County synagogue is suing the State of Florida arguing that the new abortion restrictions violate religious freedom.

Joining us now is Rabbi Barry Silver of that Congregation L'Dor Va- Dor. He's also a former Florida Democratic state legislator. Rabbi, thanks so much for being here. So how do - does the new abortion law in Florida violate religious freedom?

RABBI BARRY SILVER, CONGREGATION L'DOR VA-DOR: Well, thanks for the privilege. This is one of the most blatant violations of church state separation. You can even imagine the head of the state, DeSantis, shows up in a church and then announces an anti-abortion law. Talk about a clear cut violation of church state separation.

The reason why it violates Jewish law is because they're trying to impose the views of a tiny fraction of Christians on all of the - everybody else, including the Jewish people. So it's not just Jewish people.

In Christian, their view of the Bible and Christianity, life begins at conception, which is actually a misconception that the Bible doesn't say that. But in Judaism, life begins at birth, in their view of morality or should I say immorality, if you have a choice between the fetus and the mother, they choose the mother or rather they choose the fetus every time. Jews choose the mother, we have respect for women.

And so if we were to practice Judaism, which says that you're not just entitled, but required to have an abortion to protect the health, safety or well being of the mother throughout the entire term of pregnancy, and you were to do that you would be a criminal. This law criminalizes Judaism and it criminalizes me if I attempt to preach it.

CAMEROTA: Here is what Ron - Gov. Ron DeSantis' office told us today in response to your lawsuit. They said, "Gov. DeSantis is pro-life, and we believe HB 5," the name of the legislation, "will ultimately withstand all legal challenges. The struggle for life is not over." Your response?

SILVER: Well, you notice, he's not really saying that he's right, he's just saying that we're going to win, because these folks are used to stacking the court and then pushing their way through whether it's right or wrong. He made a slight error. It's not that they're pro- life, they're pro-lie, because they're lying when they say they care about life. If they did, they would speak for universal health care, they get rid of the assault weapons, they would protect our environment, fight against climate change and they would stop bringing people into the world forcing women to bring life into the world, in an already overcrowded planet when they know that they're not ready or not equipped.

What really shows the sanctity of life is to give women the opportunity to accept the joys, the love, the wonders, the responsibilities and the pleasure of life, because of choice and because of love, not to impose it out of fear and out of the force of the state. And this led to something else that's hideous.

If someone is raped, they can't get an abortion. So what you're saying is, if a man violates a woman and takes control of her body, afterwards, the state will continue the crime and take control of a woman's body and force her to bear the child of a rapist. And it could be a 10-year-old as the President said, this is truly outrageous. There's a word for what they're doing. It's called - it's a legal term, it's called chutzpah. Chutzpah is for people to take Jewish scripture and co-opted for their own.

To elevate a rabbi and make them their God and then to distort scripture and then to force it back on the people who wrote it and say, well tell you what it means, and we will make you follow our laws and no matter what you want to do, we're going to inflict our law, our view upon yours. That is chutzpah.

We don't need them to lecture us on the sanctity of life, we get it. And we don't need them to tell us when life begins, they're clueless. They don't know Hebrew. They don't know the Bible. The Bible says that the life begins - human life begins at birth and to say it starts at conception is a misconception.

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CAMEROTA: Rabbi Barry Silver, thank you very much for your perspective and we will continue to watch this case closely.

SILVER: It's always a pleasure, thank you.

CAMEROTA: You too.

BLACKWELL: Another key inflation measure is out. We've got more on that next.

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