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GA DA Tells State GOP Chair He Could Be Indicted In 2020 Election Probe; 1/6 Committee Considers Seeking Interviews With Trump & Pence; Victim's Cousin: We Will Have To Re-Live Trauma Every Time We Go In Grocery Store Where Racist Attack Unfolded; Soon: Biden Speaks After Meeting With Saudi Crown Prince. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 15, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And it's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Just in to CNN, the Georgia District Attorney investigating efforts to overturn the state's 2020 election now says the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party could be indicted.

CAMEROTA: Sources tell CNN that GOP Chairman David Shafer was warned about this in a letter about his possible indictment. CNN's Sara Murray has all this new reporting for us. Sara, what have you learned?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. My colleague Zach Cohen and I are learning that David Shafer, the Republican Party Chairman in Georgia received what is known as a target letter from the Fulton County District Attorney's office. She's investigating the efforts Donald Trump and his allies made to overturn the 2020 election, trying to figure out if anything was criminal.

So this letter to Shafer essentially says you are now a target of this investigation, it's possible you will be indicted as part of this inquiry.

This is important because it's the first target letter that we are learning of. Obviously, we know that she has a very wide ranging investigation. She's looking into a bunch of different facets of the efforts to overturn the election. But Shafer was important because he was one of the people who served as a pro-Trump fake collector in Georgia. He helped sort of organize this slate of alternate electors there and he had been cooperating with prosecutors as part of this probe.

He was initially told - we were told by sources that he was initially viewed as a witness in this investigation, obviously, now this is changing. Look, we know she is in the investigative phase of this probe. She has a special grand jury seated. They're hearing from witnesses basically every week.

But this is an indication that she is serious about potentially bringing indictments in this case, whether it'll stem, whether David Shafer could actually face an indictment, we don't know. Whether it'll go further than him, we also don't know. But it's clear, she's chugging ahead down in Georgia.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Sara Murray, thank you for that breaking news. Also, there are new developments in the January 6 investigation. In a CNN exclusive, we are now learning that the Committee investigating the insurrection plans to questions Secret Service officials about deleted text messages from the day of the Capitol riot and the day before.

BLACKWELL: A short time ago, our Capitol Hill team saw the Homeland Security Inspector General on his way to meet with the Committee. His watchdog agency sent a letter to lawmakers accusing the Secret Service of erasing text messages shortly after they requested them. The Secret Service has pushed back denying it deleted any texts maliciously.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now. Katelyn, first, what can you tell us about the plan to question the Secret Service officials and what is the Secret Service saying about all this?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, this right now is the House Select Committee trying to get to the bottom of what caught their attention earlier this week from the Homeland Security Department Inspector General with plans now to ask Secret Service officials what was happening here if policies are being or were being followed in that agency.

So the DHS watchdog has been doing its own separate investigation into January 6th. The House Select Committee, obviously, is still confirming details about what Secret Service members may have witnessed around then-President Donald Trump. Two days ago was when the Inspector General first communicated this allegation of erased Secret Service text messages from January 5th and 6th 2021 to Capitol Hill.

All nine members of the House January 6th Committee received a long briefing from the IG today. After that briefing, here's what Rep. Bennie Thompson had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Now that we have the IG's view of what has happened, we now need to talk to the Secret Service and our expectation is to reach out to them directly. One of the things we have to make sure is that what the Secret Service is saying and what the IG is saying that those two issues are, in fact, one and the same. And so now that we have it we'll ask for the physical information and we'll make a decision ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So Thompson there is highlighting a confusion about what really happened. The Inspector General did put out this information to several congressional committees that text messages were erased, that they were frustrated with some of the responses to their requests for information.

But then the Secret Service said in a statement, as you mentioned yesterday, that some data was lost during a plan tech update process. But that none of the text the Inspector General sought had been lost in the data migration, so it's a complicated situation. It's still unfolding. For right now, there's this activity we're seeing on Capitol Hill and it is creating a concern for Congress and the IG at this time.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Katelyn, tell us what you've also learned about the Committee possibly wanting to interview former President Trump and Vice President Pence.

POLANTZ: Right. So this is something we've heard before the Committee appears to be revisiting this again this week, do they want to seek information from Donald Trump directly, from Mike Pence directly, two separate people had very different views on January 6th.

[15:05:02]

And what we know is that Rep. Adam Kinzinger told The Wall Street Journal yesterday that they could subpoena Pence, they could also ask Pence for written testimony like a written interview. They also are still considering potentially subpoenaing Donald Trump. But one thing to point out here is that if the Committee were to go this way, it would not be simple. This is the sort of request that would bring up lots of questions about executive privilege.

And of course, we've already heard quite a lot from Pence's top advisors about what he was thinking and Donald Trump has never been very keen on sharing exactly what he witnessed, what he knew under oath, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Katelyn Polantz, thank you for all the reporting.

Let's bring in Elie Honig. He's our CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. We also have Joe Walsh. He's a former Republican Congressman from Illinois. And Page Pate, a constitutional law expert and a criminal defense attorney.

Paige, I want to start with you because you are in Georgia where we've just gotten this report that this Atlanta area DA has sent a target letter to the GOP Chair - party Chair there, David Shafer. Explain why alert someone that they are the target of an investigation, what's the point of this letter?

PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Alisyn, that's a great question. And I'll tell you specifically in this case, it's because Fani Willis previously told David Shafer that he was only a witness in this investigation. So if you're going to change the status of somebody who you may subpoena to go in front of the grand jury, it is incumbent upon you, as a prosecutor, to be fair about it, to let them know, hey, you're not just a witness any longer, you may be indicted. You have become, apparently over the past couple of months, a target of this investigation now. So it's really out of fairness to the potential witness.

BLACKWELL: So Elie, of course, that suggested in their investigation they found something that justifies that elevation from just a witness to a potential target. What does this letter suggest about the progress of this special grand jury investigation?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Victor, this is a major development in this case. And in this investigation, prosecutors do sometimes notify a person you've now become a target. And what that means is that prosecutors have compelling evidence linking that person to commission of a crime, and that they believe that that person is what we call a putative defendant. Meaning, at this point, a likely defendant.

And Page is absolutely right. One of the reasons that you do notify somebody they've become a target is out of a sense of fair play to let that person get represented if they need to, so they don't incriminate themselves. And so they have some sense of what might be coming.

But another reason you do that sometimes strategically, is you're trying to flip somebody. You want to send someone a message that, hey, an indictment could be coming your way and it may be in your interest to come in and talk to us. So this is a really important and I think telling step forward in this investigation.

CAMEROTA: So Joe, there's that development, okay, in Georgia and then there's also developments today in the January 6 investigation, one of them being that the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security says that the Secret Service deleted some texts around January 6th and January 5th, so around the Capitol riot. And the Secret Service seems to have explained it by saying, well, we were going through a device upgrade.

But I mean, as I pointed out, I also have gotten a new cell phone since then, but all my text messages are still there. So obviously there are some questions that need to be answered here.

JOE WALSH, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, ILLINOIS: Secret Service agents are supposed to physically protect a president. They aren't supposed to politically protect the president. And this erased emails from the day before and January 6th just adds to the smell that there was a weird political loyalty that these Secret Service agents might have had for Donald Trump.

And you add that to the Secret Service agents who contradicted Cassidy Hutchinson's story about what Trump did in the limo, but they refuse to go under oath to give that testimony. This is adding to the Secret Service really needs to be looked into and their allegiances and loyalty here really needs to be questioned.

BLACKWELL: Elie, staying with the January 6 Committee, we just heard from Katelyn Polantz, revisiting the idea of trying to get testimony from the former president, former vice president and written responses, that's an option here. Are there pitfalls, specifically, of trying to get those answers on paper instead of in-person?

HONIG: Yes, Victor. You're not going to get much out of a person like Mike Pence in written responses. I mean, in all likelihood, all the Committee would get back from that as a bunch of lawyered (ph) up sort of non committal responses. And think back to the Mueller investigation, when that team (inaudible) which then came back weeks or months later with just a bunch of lawyer (inaudible) doesn't recall may or may not.

[15:10:07]

So I think that's fairly useless. I think the Committee is serious about getting information from Mike Pence. They ought to consider subpoenaing him, or if not, trying to negotiate some sort of live testimony because otherwise, it's just not going to advance the cause of truth much.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, in fairness, Page, don't they have to ask Vice President Pence and former President Trump about these questions that concern - I mean, they're central figures here, don't they have to ask them even if they get useless answers?

PATE: Well, I don't think they have to, but I certainly think it would be a good idea. What's the worst that can happen? They can refuse to answer these questions. They could not get information, as Elie suggested. Just general lawyer speak, that type of stuff.

But I think asking the question, giving them that opportunity, pressing them to come forward and to present the other side, if there is another side. I mean, we've apparently seen President Trump's sending messages to people saying, look, it should be fair, there should be equal time, well, come on in. I think that makes sense to let the American people hear whatever it is they have to say and compare it to the evidence that we've heard so far.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, the reporting from New York Magazine, also CNN, is that the only question that former President Trump has to answer about 2024 run is when to announce, before the midterms, after the midterms. We know from McConnell and McCarthy that their focus is going to be the economy, how does this upset that applecart?

WALSH: Well, first off, if it were up to Trump, he would have announced a year ago. They've been holding him back. He will announce before the midterms. Republicans aren't happy about that. I don't think Democrats should get ahead of themselves and think that Trump announcing is going to help them because voters aren't concerned about that.

I actually believe he's going to announce before the midterms and I - because he wants to claim credit for any potential victory in November and make it all about him.

CAMEROTA: Joe, I've been reading your tweets where you say that what you've learned is that a large swath of Americans like a strong man as a leader, they want to be led. I mean, that's - there's just a truism, I think, in that. It's not just Americans and so do you think that President Trump has been weakened by the January 6th? In other words, when he announces, if it's just a case of when, do you think that it will be met with as much enthusiasm as it would have without the January 6 Committee?

WALSH: I actually do, Alisyn. Look, I was a Republican my whole life. I left two years ago, because the party has become authoritarian. I speak to Trump supporters every day. They're not bothered by anything Donald Trump did regarding January 6. They aren't.

The only ones who question whether he should be the nominee, they question it because they worry that all of this stuff might make it more difficult for him to win. But I have no doubt if he comes out and announces I still don't believe many people will challenge him in the Republican Party, because sadly I think the party is still his.

BLACKWELL: All right. Joe Walsh, Elie Honig, Page Pate, thank you.

All right. Just in to CNN, President Biden is going to deliver remarks in just a few minutes at 3:30, so it's 17 minutes from now, after his meeting with the Saudi Crown Prince. We'll bring that to you live when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:08]

BLACKWELL: Today, officials in Ohio announced the autopsy results in the police shooting death of Jayland Walker. The medical examiner determined that the 25-year-old had 46 gunshot or grains - graze wounds to his body. It was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

CAMEROTA: Walker was killed last month in Akron while running away unarmed from police after an alleged traffic violation. Walker's funeral was Wednesday. The Department of Justice says their civil rights division, the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI field office in Akron are all closely reviewing the circumstances of Walker's death.

BLACKWELL: Tops supermarket in Buffalo, New York where a gunman killed 10 people in a racist ambush just reopened to the public today.

CAMEROTA: The store has been renovated to include extra security measures and a memorial to honor the victims.

And my next guest lost her great niece, Pearl - sorry, lost her aunt, Pearl Young and her cousin Margus Morrison in the Tops supermarket shooting. Michelle Spight is now here with us. Michelle, thanks so much for being here. How do you feel today about the supermarket reopening?

MICHELLE SPIGHT, FAMILY MEMBER OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIMS: There is an exhilarating feeling and a myriad of emotions just exhilaratingly exhausted actually is a good description of how I feel.

CAMEROTA: I understand that. I mean, even though that's a paradox, I totally understand that. And you have mixed emotions, are you comfortable with it reopening?

SPIGHT: I am extremely uncomfortable, I am angry, I am appalled at the methodology and the way that this all transpired. I'm just appalled by it, to be perfectly honest with you.

CAMEROTA: What part? SPIGHT: The part that is appalling is that I'm not able to wrap my

head around how a massacre like this could have happened at the hands of this white supremacist.

[15:20:07]

Beyond that, how Tops has been making unilateral decisions in my eyes, how you don't bring to the table the very people that were impacted, the victims' families to say: What are your thoughts? How do you feel? What do you feel should be our modus operandi? Why or how that didn't happen is baffling to me.

CAMEROTA: And if they had brought you to the table to ask for your input, what would you have told them?

SPIGHT: I would have told him that it takes space, it takes time, it takes healing and it takes an alternative plan. The quick fix so many times in our communities, especially communities of color, is let's just fix it and get on with business as usual. We need to be able to process things. We need to be able to come up with a strategic plan to eradicate this from ever happening again and what that looks like is options.

This was the only supermarket granted. There are people in the community that desperately needs a supermarket, also understood. But what I do not understand is how we put a bandage over a permanent problem. We should have had many conversations, which did not just include top heavy political officials or community leaders, but it should have been held with the members of the very community, the members that live in that zip code, the family members whose families were victims. That should have been the tone of the conversation and it did not go that way and it's disturbing.

CAMEROTA: I hear you. I mean, you wanted to be involved. You wanted your voice to be heard. I think that makes total sense. But as you point out, it is considered - I mean, that neighborhood is considered a food desert and people do - did rely on that supermarket. And so for the people of the community, many we've heard did want it to reopen. I'll just play for you what the Mayor said at the reopening ceremony and then get you to respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BYRON BROWN (D) BUFFALO, NY: Most people in the community, while they were in pain and trauma over what happened here, felt it was important for the store to open. This is a loving, strong and resilient community that hate will not win and that we will turn this tragedy into a triumph that will be seen by the entire nation and the entire world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What's your response, Michelle?

SPIGHT: My response is, first of all, I really am a fan of Mayor Brown. However, I have challenged the fact that I would like to know who most people are: Did you do a community survey to find most people? Did you survey the persons that live in that zip code to find out their input?

And like I said, at the forefront of that was the family ever involved in it. Not only is it the store reopening one of grandeur for television, but we also have to look at the fact that when people walk through the threshold of that door, even be beyond that, when they come onto that parking lot, that's traumatic, just being around in the neighborhood that happens to be my supermarket. So I'm passionate about it.

I don't live in the suburbs. I'm not an official who is removed from the community, I live there. But can I tell you I cannot even go down Jefferson nearby that street and make an absolute detour not to even go near it because it is extremely traumatizing. So I'd like to submit to that, who exactly were the people that were really, really happy?

I know, we have a quorum of those that are on social media and on television happy, but what really is at the seed of that? At the seed of that are victims' families that are daily trying to make it.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Michelle, thank you very much for all of your thoughts and sharing them with us. We understand how traumatic today and all of these days have been for your family and the community there and we'll speak to you again. Thanks so much for being here.

SPIGHT: Thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: Well, President Biden is going to deliver remarks in just a few minutes after his meeting with the Saudi King, Crown Prince and other leaders there in the kingdom. We'll bring that to you when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:23]

BLACKWELL: We're just getting this in, President Biden has just wrapped up a meeting with Saudi leaders in Jeddah. Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman was part of that meeting. Now, this face-to-face lasted more than two hours. The President will speak in just a couple of minutes. Of course, we'll bring that to you live as we look at the podium there.

You will remember that the President called Saudi Arabia a pariah state during the 2020 campaign. In 2018, the Senate passed a resolution condemning Mohammad bin Salman for the murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in CNN Anchor Wolf Blitzer and CNN Senior White House Correspondent Phil Mattingly.

[15:30:01]

So Wolf, this was just added to the President's schedule. Of course, you've covered several administrations, what's the significance of an impromptu event like this?