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Jan. 6 Committee Subpoenas Secret Service For Missing Text Messages; Biden Pledges Continued U.S. Involvement In the Middle East; Ukraine's Grain Harvest Becomes The New Battlefield; Russians Visited Iran At Least Twice Last Month; Indiana AG Investigating The Doctor Who Provided Abortion For 10-Year-Old Rape Victim; SpaceX Dragon Docks In Resupply Mission For ISS; Prominent South Carolina Lawyer Charged In Deaths Of Wife And Son. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired July 16, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:57]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

All right. We begin this hour with new developments in the January 6th investigation. The House Committee probing the insurrection has now issued a subpoena to the U.S. Secret Service for text messages sent on January 5th and 6th of 2021. This comes after the Homeland Security's inspector general accused the Secret Service of erasing those texts after his office requested them.

The IG met with the committee yesterday and according to a source, he told the panel the Secret Service has not fully cooperated with his probe. The Secret Service denies deleting any texts maliciously. The subpoena is the first time the panel has publicly targeted an executive branch agency.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joining us right now. Katelyn, what more do we know about how this subpoena came about, and the response, and what are the other things the Secret Service is saying?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right, Fred.

So this is a very fast-moving story. We only learned that there may be a problem or confusion around these Secret Service text messages from January 5th and 6th just three days ago July 13th. So that is when the Department of Homeland Security inspector general which is an independent watchdog conducting its own look into the Secret Service handling of January 6th, they flagged for Capitol Hill that there were erased or missing text messages from the Secret Service and they were -- this inspector general was quite concerned that they weren't getting the cooperation that they wanted or at least they thought that they should have from the Secret Service getting documents about January 6.

So they told Capitol Hill, then the IG went to Capitol Hill yesterday to brief all nine members of the House Select Committee about this issue that had been erased text messages because of the data migration. Where are those?

And so then the committee members emerged from that briefing being very concerned. Here is Representative Zoe Lofgren yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): I will say that the explanation that you have to factory reset and eliminate your data without backing up your data just seems -- I'm skeptical. I mean, I wouldn't do that.

The argument about when the request was made is largely irrelevant. The Secret Service was aware that this was one of the signature events of our country and that there would be a need to preserve all of the evidence because of that, and also there's an obligation for federal agencies to retain records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So you see this amount of confusion that Lofgren is expressing there, other committee members expressed it too, about what happened. And that's what led to the subpoena last night, this late subpoena from the House committee asking the Secret Service both for the text messages at issue here that are supposedly lost and also any after action reports that could explain what happened, are there other records backing them up, those sort of things.

We've also gotten statements from the Secret Service, several statements. After the IG notified Capitol Hill the Secret Service said there was nothing malicious about this. And even the text messages that the IG really wanted in their probe of January 6th, those weren't the things that were lost. That's what the Secret Service said a couple of days ago.

And then this morning we just got another statement from them that I want to read saying they're going to be very cooperative, this is the chief of communications from the Secret Service, saying "The January 6th Select Committee has had our full and unwavering cooperation since its inception. That does not change. Over the last 18 months, we have voluntarily provided dozens of hours of formal testimony from special agents, 790,000 unredacted emails, radio transmissions, operational and planning records. We plan to continue that cooperation by responding swiftly to the committee's subpoena."

And of course, we are in a moment where the Secret Service is very much at issue of what house committee continues to investigate what they witnessed around President Donald Trump on January 6th, Fred.

[11:04:52]

WHITFIELD: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

Let's talk more about all this with Michael Zeldin. He is a former federal prosecutor and host of the podcast "That Said with Michael Zeldin". Good to see you, Michael.

So while the Secret Service is saying we have been fully cooperating, what does the subpoena say about that?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: That the House doesn't believe them. The House would not have a need to subpoena records if those records had been previously put forth to them or if the committee felt they were putting them forth. So there's a lot of suspicion as Zoe Lofgren indicated in her statement there.

WHITFIELD: And while the committee Chairman Bennie Thompson there tells CNN the panel wants to talk with the Secret Service, the subpoena has now been issued. What are the questions that will likely be asked?

ZELDIN: Well, what the Secret Service has said that is that the text messages that were deleted were deleted in the ordinary course as they were moving from one set of telephones to another and that there was no malicious deletion of this information. What the committee says is that doesn't really make sense.

If you go into an Apple phone store and you want to get a new phone, for example, they'll say, is everything backed up? And so it's sort of like common practice, you back up everything before you migrate.

So I think they just don't believe this is going on and they are suspicious of them. And that suspicious is borne out by another fact, which was that Cassidy Hutchinson testified that president Trump lunged toward the Secret Service in his effort to get them to drive him to Capitol Hill.

The immediate response from the Secret Service after that was, that's not true. But of course, we learned today from D.C. Metropolitan Police that it was in fact true. So immediately there you have a disconnect between reality and what may be what the Secret Service has testified to.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And all of that, I mean that's a real strike to the credibility of the Secret Service thus far, even though again we still have yet to hear the full story and perhaps after the subpoena, at least the committee feels like or is hoping that it might get some of those blanks filled in.

All right. I also want to now talk to you about our new reporting that an Atlanta area district attorney is telling the Georgia GOP chair that he could be indicted as part of her probe into election interference. So what does this tell you about the investigation and that the D.A. would alert of a potential indictment as opposed to just serving the indictment, and that would serve notice?

ZELDIN: Well, oftentimes you, in an investigation of this sort, notify the target that they are about to be indicted, to give them one last chance to come in and sort of clear the air or straighten out the record or plead their innocence. That's not unusual, that a target is identified (INAUDIBLE).

But the fact that they have a target who may be indicted for something related to campaign fraud is significant because if there is a conspiracy here and this witness -- excuse me -- and this witness decides to cooperate now that he or she has been indicted, then you maybe break open a conspiracy of silence if that's what's going on, and that is often what is going on.

WHITFIELD: Would there be any cooperation or sharing of information between the Fulton County -- I'm talking about Georgia, Fulton County D.A. -- and the January 6th House Committee, since the goal is the same in terms of at the center is the potential overthrowing of an election. Would there be any sharing of information, because these investigations or probes are happening simultaneously?

ZELDIN: There can, and I expect that there would be sharing between Fulton County and the United States Department of Justice, the federal investigation. So I expect that all of these agencies -- the federal, the state, and then the January 6th Committee -- are all going to share information among themselves to make sure that each has whatever is needed for them to complete their work.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much, Michael Zeldin. Good to see you.

ZELDIN: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And this quick programming note. Join Drew Griffin for a new investigation into Steve Bannon and his master plan to reshape the U.S. government and the Republican Party. "CNN SPECIAL REPORT: DIVIDED WE FALL" begins tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m.

President Biden is on his way back to Washington right now after wrapping up his historic trip to the Middle East. He spent his final day in Saudi Arabia laying out his strategy for building alliances in the Middle East, including a pledge for a billion dollars in food aid to the region.

[11:10:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- that the United States is going to remain an active, engaged partner in the Middle East. As the world grows more competitive and the challenges we face more complex, it is only becoming clear to me how closely interwoven America's interests are with the successes in the Middle East. We will not walk away and leave a vacuum to be filled by China, Russia or Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: But the president's controversial meeting with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman continues to grab the headlines. Biden was criticized for this moment, that fist bump, when he greeted the Crown Prince, who is accused of being behind the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is in Jeddah for the president's trip. So how is the White House assessing what was accomplished? PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Fred,

I think when you look at that picture, kind of the indelible image of this trip that will live on for history, today was as big a reason as any why that picture exists as the meeting itself, the bilateral meeting with the Crown Prince last night.

And here's why. I think when you heard the president talk about the commitment of the United States in the region, the desire to be in the region, the desire to not allow a vacuum to exist. Those were a, words that the leaders around the table desperately wanted to hear after a lot of very real questions in this region about the U.S.'s commitment to the region.

But b, the type of a commitment that the United States could not make without reestablishing some type of alliance with the Saudi Arabians. They are the most powerful player in this region. Their alliances are as critical for this reason as any other and the United States' alliance with Saudi Arabia needed to be repaired for -- or at least start the process of a repair for the president to be able to lay out a framework of some sort as he did today at the GCC plus 3 meeting.

I think when you talk to White House officials, they knew there would be short term political blow back. They knew there would be fierce and harsh criticism.

But the desire, almost a necessity to kind of reconcile or start to recalibrate the relationship in order to reach or meet some of the their broader goals in the region was the long term play here. And I think that's an effort they believe the president laid out in detail earlier today. And I think that's -- and that's what they believe, leaving this trip, they'd at least laid the groundwork to set the conditions to move forward on it.

I think there's a lot of questions still to come when it comes to this region. And there's no question that China has certainly made aggressive pushes economically into this region, Russia as well.

But from the U.S. perspective, this was an important first step for a region that largely it seemed like they were turning a blind eye throughout the course of the first 18 months in office.

WHITFIELD: And Phil, stay with us, because I want to bring in now CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger into the equation. He is also, David is also a White House and national security correspondent for the "New York Times". Nice (ph) to see both of you here.

So David, you know, while as Phil underscores, there were a lot of things at issue from counterterrorism to food, oil supply. But what is upstaging all of that is that fist bump.

So talk to us, David, about the predicament, I suppose, that the White House felt it was in. I mean what's the alternative to returning that fist bump when it was the Crown Prince who extended it first, what should the White House have done or what should have the president done that would not look like a snub given that he is the visiting president there in Saudi Arabia?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well Fred, he was really in an impossible situation here because having made the decision that he was going to go to Saudi Arabia, that meant dealing with the Crown Prince.

And they really didn't know coming into the meeting how the Crown Prince would greet him, whether it would be a handshake, whether it would be a fist bump, what it would be.

And so in the end, they decided to just sort of go with whatever it was and figure that the next time these two men meet, the issues of what the president said in the past about how Saudi Arabia was a pariah state, how it had no redeeming value, that that would all begin to fade, because in the end they really decided that the frame that you were discussing before, which was the competition with China and, to a lesser degree, Russia in the region was really the critical issue for the United States.

WHITFIELD: And Phil, the president, you know, during that opportunity with reporters says he raised the issue, the killing of Khashoggi, with the Crown Prince directly. And he said the prince says that he was not personally responsible.

[11:14:50]

WHITFIELD: So what does the White House feel it may have gained by bringing it up, you know, getting a rather lackluster response, you know, predictably, from the Crown Prince, but what does the White House now equip itself with after that conversation?

MATTINGLY: The ability to say that it happened. I think to some degree, for the same exact reason that we saw the Saudis utilize every social media platform they had to blast out the photos of President Biden and MBS fist bumping, making clear, underscoring that this was legitimizing a leader and the ties to the United States and in the world how important that was for them.

It was critically important for the president to let the world know that this was mentioned directly, spoken directly at the very top of the meeting to the Crown Prince. Now, it's worth noting Saudi officials have made clear they did not believe that was an antagonistic conversation and it was a rather short part of a very lengthy and intensive discussion about major issues which I think underscores the reality here, which was it was a point that the president needed to make certainly in this first meeting, as David was saying.

It was one where he knew the prince was not going to accept any responsibility whatsoever and was likely going to push back as we've reported that he did. And then they needed to move on.

And I think that's the frame here more than anything else, it sounds crass or realism or realpolitik -- however you want to put it, but there has been a weighing of strategic importance here and the decision has been that this was a necessity to be able to move forward in the relationship and now the hope from the administration's side is moving forward is exactly what they'll do.

WHITFIELD: And then David, you know, the White House being met with a lot of criticism, they were before, you know, the president embarked on this trip and even now that he's left.

So did this meeting between Biden and the Crown Prince there, you know, legitimize the Crown Prince's leadership? Or were there significant gains given that the president underscored this is the first time a U.S. President has visited the Middle East, you know, since the September 11th attacks?

SANGER: Well, it's the first time he -- certainly he has been here to Jeddah. But we've had other presidents come to other parts of the Middle East, of course.

WHITFIELD: Right. And of course, you know, former President Trump was in Saudi Arabia on his first trip.

(CROSSTALK)

SANGER: But in the end, the Saudis got what they wanted the most.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

SANGER: They got the legitimacy of having the picture of the president talking with the Crown Prince, the future leader of Saudi Arabia. And that took the Crown Prince somewhat out of the exile that he was in with the U.S., even though European leaders and others had met with him.

The president had to demonstrate that he was coming out with an understanding that there would be more oil pumped. Most importantly, that the Saudis would begin to turn to an American-made 5g and 6g system, an effort to try to box out the Chinese from the region where they've been very active, as Phil was saying.

They got a minor agreement on islands in the Red Sea that have been under dispute. Then they've gotten overflight for all commercial aircraft over Saudi Arabia.

So the president can say he had actual deliverables. I'm not sure they are the deliverables that mean much to many Americans until gas prices come down.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And so, just to clarify, Biden had boasted of really being the first U.S. President to visit the Middle East since 9/11, while that region was without American troops being engaged in any kind of combat in the region.

SANGER: That's right.

WHITFIELD: So that was the distinction that he made that I very poorly kind of set up at the very beginning but now tried to clean it up.

All right.

SANGER: And that's why it was so critical for him.

WHITFIELD: Yes. All right. David Sanger --

(CROSSTALK)

SANGER: Because he views himself as the president who pulled them out.

WHITFIELD: Sorry. All right. Thank you so much. David Sanger, Phil Mattingly -- we'll leave it there for now.

All right. Still ahead, the Indiana doctor who performed an abortion for a 10-year-old rape victim from Ohio is now fighting back against the Indiana attorney general who is investigating the physician. The doctor's attorney says the AG is conducting a smear campaign. More on that, next.

Plus several parts of Ukraine struck by extensive Russian missiles. We'll take you there live, straight ahead.

[11:19:28]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. New today, a Russian delegation has visited an airfield in central Iran at least twice in the last month to examine weapons-capable drones. That's according to national security adviser Jake Sullivan and satellite imagery obtained exclusively by CNN.

CNN's Ivan Watson joining me now from Mykolaiv where rescue teams have been on the site of missile strikes, so Ivan, what more do you know?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the National University of Shipbuilding, Fredericka. And Friday morning, it was pounded by several Russian missiles that have just devastated the building and also landed in surrounding fields.

This city is getting hit day after day. I've been to an elementary school that was destroyed. Another university has been hit. There's a hotel we went to today that was hit, hospitals as well.

And this is just one Ukrainian city. The Russians are also rocketing other cities across the country in what the Ukrainian government alleges are acts of terrorism. And it's not just cities that are being hit, too. It's also Ukraine's enormous agricultural industry.

This is the world's fifth largest exporter of wheat and the Ukrainian government is accusing Russia of fighting deadly hunger games by targeting this important source of food for the world.

[11:25:01]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON (voice over): A war against one of the biggest bread baskets in the world, Ukraine's fertile farmland now a battleground. Military drone footage exclusively obtained by CNN shows Russian artillery pounding wheat fields, burning the summer harvests charcoal black. Farmers raced to protect their crops. Until Russia's invasion, Ukraine was the world's fifth largest exporter of wheat.

(on camera): All right. This looks like some kind of munition over here.

(voice over): Now Ukrainian farmers are harvesting a deadly crop.

(on camera): Mikhail says these are pieces of Russian rockets that they gathered out of the fields.

(voice over): Mikhail Lyubchenko (ph) takes me on a tour of his farm.

(on camera): He'll show us -- that's another shell strike?

(voice over): Acres of wheat waiting to be harvested within earshot of pounding Russian artillery.

(on camera): This is absolutely surreal. We're amid the wreckage of previous battles, armored personnel carriers, military vehicles, and then you've got farmers out here that are harvesting wheat right now.

The vehicles that have been destroyed here, this could have happened back in March, February, much earlier. But we're also seeing these impact craters from shell strikes that we're told probably took place within the last couple of weeks.

(voice over): Despite the threats, these brave farmers still bring in their harvest, only to face another obstacle.

(on camera): This is 3,000 tons of wheat from last year's harvest.

He can't sell this wheat because the Russian military has blockaded Ukraine's ports so there's no way for this to be sold except at an enormous loss.

(voice over): Ukrainian ports, where ships once carried millions of tons of grain a month to global markets, now blockaded by the Russian navy. The logjam driving up global food prices, triggering warnings of famine in some of the world's poorest countries.

Last month, the Ukrainian military forced Russian troops to abandon Ukraine's Snake Island in the Black Sea. The Snake Island victory freed up channels to the Danube River. Ukraine reactivated Soviet-era ports on this waterway as an alternative route for the export of grain.

But experts warn the river can only handle a fraction of Ukraine's pre-war cargo. This week Ukrainian, Russian and U.N. delegations meeting in Istanbul say they reached a deal in principle to resume shipments of grain by sea. But Ukrainian farmers continue to face deadly threats on land, making it too risky for many to plant crops for next year.

This front line farmer vows not to give up. "Our soldiers are fighting and dying to get rid of these occupiers," he says. "We need to feed our country, the soldiers, and help the whole world with our food. That's why we'll keep working." He calls his farm the second front in this deadly war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON: Now, Fredericka, we want to show you this so you can get a sense of the power of some of these weapons that the Russian military is firing day after day at Ukrainian cities.

I cannot see any clear evidence that the Ukrainian military was here, that this was any kind of military target, so I can't confirm or deny, which then leads me to this question, what's the goal of these types of attacks on Ukrainian cities?

Is it, as the Ukrainian government argues, to wage psychological warfare against the civilian population, to try to break the will of the Ukrainian people?

If it is, every Ukrainian I talked to says this kind of damage, this kind of arguably terrorism just makes them hate Moscow more than ever, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: Wow, what a tragedy.

All right. Ivan Watson, thank you so much.

Still ahead, take a look right now, you're looking at live pictures of Dragon cargo capsule docking with the International Space Station this morning. We'll talk about that and take a closer look at some of the amazing images coming in from the James Webb telescope.

[11:29:47]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. New details about the sudden death of Ivana Trump, the first wife of former president Donald Trump. The New York City medical examiner has ruled her death accidental due to blunt impact injuries to her torso. She was found dead in her home on Thursday. Emergency responders reportedly discovered her unresponsive on her staircase.

Ivana is survived by her mother and her three children, Don Jr., Ivanka, and Eric Trump. She was 73 years old.

[11:34:45]

WHITFIELD: The attorney general in Indiana says his office is investigating the doctor who performed an abortion for a 10-year-old Ohio girl who was raped and had to travel to Indiana for the procedure because of Ohio's abortion ban. That doctor is fighting back today.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is following the story for us. So Polo, what is the doctor saying? POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There are so many disturbing

chapters in this ever-evolving story, Fred. But the latest one has to do with Indiana's Attorney General Todd Rokita and Dr. Caitlin Bernard of Indianapolis which is that Indiana OB/GYN that is currently being investigated by the Republican AG for alleged failure to report an abortion.

But now after CNN obtained various documents about that reporting, we can now confirm that the doctor did actually report that and she did so two days after it was performed, after the abortion was performed. And that is required by Indiana Department of Health over on July 2nd.

Now her report, as I look over it here Fred, it also indicates that the pregnancy was the result of a patient being abused, that is a reference to that 10-year-old little girl from Ohio who underwent a procedure after her home state basically banned an abortion after six weeks with very few exceptions.

After CNN obtained Dr. Bernard's report, AG Rokita's office did respond, saying that they are still gathering evidence and their review remains open. But look, when you hear from the doctor's attorney, the question is what is left to review, that her client did in fact adhere to the policies and procedures in place.

This is how she explained why she submitted a cease and desist letter to the attorney general of Indiana as she described it yesterday on CNN's "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN DELANEY, ATTORNEY FOR DR. CAITLIN BERNARD: We want Mr. Rokita to stop lying about Dr. Bernard and stop smearing her reputation and making ridiculously unsupported accusations when even the barest minimum of homework on his part would have found that that report had been timely done.

We're going to do the opposite of what Attorney General Rokita did. We're actually going to take our time and gather the facts and research the law and put together our case, thoughtfully and deliberately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: The attorney certainly at least hinting that we could potentially see possible legal action here. But we'll have to see if this story takes that direction.

For the meantime we have reached out to the attorney general's office there in Indiana for comment in light of the cease and desist letter. We're still waiting to hear back, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Let us know if there's any new comment coming from that office.

Appreciate it, Polo Sandoval. All right. Right now the Dragon cargo capsule docked with the

International Space Station. We'll talk about that and look at those unbelievable images from the James Webb telescope. What does all of this reveal about our universe? That's next.

[11:37:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.

The SpaceX Dragon has just docked with the International Space Station in its latest resupply mission. It's the company's 25th commercial resupply for NASA. And this has been a historic and remarkable week as scientists look to the stars in ways never done before.

Joining me right now Adam Frank. He's a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester. He's also the author of the book, "Light of the Stars: Alien Worlds and the Fate of the Earth". Professor Frank, good to see you.

ADAM FRANK, PROFESSOR OF ASTROPHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER: Great to be on again, thank you.

WHITFIELD: Wonderful. All right.

So let's start with this latest mission to the International Space Station, 25 missions for SpaceX and counting. How important is this partnership between the company and NASA?

FRANK: You know, what's really remarkable about this is how commonplace it's come, right -- it's become. This is the 25th mission. We barely even notice that there's, you know, a commercial presence in space.

There's a company whose main job is bringing things into space and it shows how much the commercialization of space is now routine. And it also shows, you know, that this future, if we can manage to get past all the troubles that we have right now, this remarkable future we all have in space, because this is the beginning of actually having a human presence, having jobs, having ways of living up there for all people.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Space exploration always kind of emits a sense of hope, right. I mean that's what it's all about, hope and promise of the next chapter. And so, you know, I'm feeling your excitement over all of this.

And overall, it's been a really exciting, you know, week. We got our first deep space images from the James Webb telescope, I mean really incredible pictures there, just so vibrant.

What were your thoughts when you first saw them?

FRANK: Well, I got to tell you, first of all, I've been sitting in, you know, lectures, talks about the James Webb for years. You know, I didn't think it was going to work because it was so complicated. Like they basically sent a house-sized transformer to orbit past the moon.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

FRANK: And all of it worked so perfectly that it gave us these unprecedented views of the history of the universe, the planets where life might be -- you know, could exist.

So it's really -- the fact that Americans and human beings, you know, in the midst of everything that's going on right now can come together and do the impossible really speaks to, you know, the possibilities that we all have.

WHITFIELD: Yes. There's something eerie but then also beautiful. And then also, I mean, kind of similar to images that we've seen at the greatest depths of oceans, and how suddenly there will be a spark of color or light and it's just like that. It's just a strange kind of mirroring of images, but again it's out of this world. It's very unique.

So if these images that we see, you know, are billions of years old, I mean could it be in a way that many of these galaxies are dead already? I mean how do you interpret what we're seeing?

[11:44:50]

FRANK: Yes, this is such a powerful idea, that the further you look out into space, the further you're looking in time. And that's because light is the fastest thing there is, and it -- you know, it takes a while to travel from one place to the other.

Now, what we know about galaxies is they last a long time. So what we're seeing is baby pictures of galaxies that still exist now, but you know, if we were to see them now, they would be older, they would be more mature.

So what we get in these pictures by looking back in time is we get to see the history of galaxies. We get to see how galaxies are assembled and put together. So, you know, that's really (ph) the importance of this idea that you're seeing all of these different galaxies at different parts of their evolution.

WHITFIELD: So your book, "Light of the Stars: Alien Worlds and the Fate of the Earth", I mean, that's the perfect premise for asking you this next question which is, you know, if some kind of alien life is looking towards earth, taking pictures of earth, what do you guess they might be seeing as they look at earth and these layers of billions of years of possible galaxies?

FRANK: You know, that is a really great question because it speaks to this idea that it depends on how far away it is. The closest star to us is four light-years away. So if they were looking at us, they would see images of earth four light-years ago, you know, the middle of the Trump presidency.

The galaxy, which is our city of stars is about 100,000 light-years across, so an alien looking at us from the other edge of the galaxy would see earth when human beings, you know, were still basically hunter-gatherers.

The nearest galaxy to us is about a million light-years away and they would see earth before there were any homo sapiens at all.

And this point about time is really freaky-deaky because it holds for us as well. You know, when you're looking at you child who you love, right, you're really if they're like a couple of (INAUDIBLE) away you see them as they were a nanosecond in the past. And if your partner is, you know, further, you know, twice as far from them, you're seeing your partner as it was two nanoseconds in the past.

WHITFIELD: Oh my gosh.

FRANK: So we're never looking in the now, we're actually living in this mosaic of thens. So, you know, this thing about looking back in time holds right now with what's happening with us as you and I talk.

WHITFIELD: Wow, all right. I think you summed it up very succinctly, freaky-deaky. It's freaky-deaky for sure. Right. Professor Adam Frank, thank you so much. Pleasure.

FRANK: It's my pleasure.

WHITFIELD: All right. Accusations of murder, embezzlement, insurance fraud. We'll take you inside the downfall of a prominent Carolina Family and how the Murdaughs finally unraveled.

[11:47:36]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Once a legal dynasty, now the Murdaugh family is in ruins. This week, prominent attorney Alex Murdaugh was indicted by a grand jury in South Carolina for the 2021 murders of his wife and son. The motive, millions of dollars in life insurance.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher has more on this bizarre tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These indictments handed down by a Colleton County, South Carolina grand jury on Thursday alleged that it was Alex Murdaugh who pulled the triggers and yes, I said "triggers" as in plural.

The indictments have very few details but what it does allege is that Alex Murdaugh shot and killed his 52-year-old wife Maggie with a rifle, and shot and killed his 22-year-old son Paul with a shotgun.

Now Murdaugh was a very prominent and powerful attorney here in the low country from a prominent family but he was disbarred by the state Supreme Court earlier this week. His attorneys released a statement shortly after the indictments came down saying in part, quote, "Alex wants his family and friends and everyone to know that he did not have anything to do the with murders of Maggie and Paul. He loved them more than anything in the world. It was clear from day

one that law enforcement and the attorney general prematurely concluded that Alex was responsible for the murder of his wife and son. But we know that Alex did not have any motive whatsoever to murder them."

Now, his attorneys have said that they plan to request a speedy trial. They say they want to get the evidence that law enforcement may have out in the open and expect much of that to happen in potentially the next 90 days or so.

Now again, not much evidence, not much information in those indictments but a source does tell CNN that at least some of the evidence that law enforcement may have could pertain to blood spatter that may have been found on Alex Murdaugh's clothing that he was wearing the night of the murders that could indicate a rifle that was fired at a very close range.

Now of course, Murdaugh is actually in jail. He's been behind bars for months now on a $7 million bond. That pertains to some of the more than 70 financial-related charges that are currently pending against him with clients and other victims accusing him of defrauding them of millions upon millions of dollars.

And then, of course, there was that initial arrest, in part what sparked so much interest in this case from not just the low country, but the nation itself, that bizarre attempted roadside suicide for hire insurance fraud plot.

[11:54:48]

GALLAGHER: And of course, there are the mysterious deaths. At least three death investigations have either been opened or reopened in the past year that relate in some way to the Murdaugh family orbit.

And again (INAUDIBLE) Murdaugh is still in jail but he will appear for a bond hearing on Wednesday of next week on those murder indictments.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Dianne Gallagher, thanks so much for that.

All right. Still ahead, a desperate search continues for a missing college student. He was last seen over a week ago. What we know about his disappearance straight ahead.

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