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Biden Fist Bump With Saudi Crown Prince Sparks Backlash; Indiana A.G. Investigates Abortion Done On 10-Year-old Rape Victim; January 6th Committee Subpoenas Secret Service Over Erased Texts; New Book Examines How GOP Enables Fueled Trump's Rise; Biden Predicts Low Gas Prices After Meeting With Saudis But Manchin Puts Breaks On Economic Package At Home; Lawyers: Brittany Griner Was Prescribed Medical Cannabis For Pain. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 16, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:35]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ryan Nobles in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off.

Right now President Biden on his way back to the United States following his first trip to the Middle East since entering the White House. And while the president offered his vision for the future of U.S.-Middle East relations as he met with leaders from across the region, it was this moment, this fist bump with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, that is proving to be one of the lasting images of the visit.

The gesture with the man known as MBS sparking intense criticism due to the conclusion the CIA conclusion that bin Salman personally ordered the 2018 murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. And for his part, Biden said that he confronted the de facto Saudi ruler about Khashoggi's killing and that the crown prince denied any personal responsibility. The president says he told bin Salman, he, quote, "thought he was involved."

CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly joins us now live from Saudi Arabia.

Phil, President Biden facing backlash from Jamal Khashoggi's fiancee, and even some Democrats over his face-to-face with MBS. What's the White House saying?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, White House officials were very aware that there would be fierce blow back by the decision to hold this meeting, to make this trip generally. There was a calculation that was made, though, that the short-term blowback was a necessity for the long term effort in this region.

Obviously, there's been a lot of discussion about oil production. It was a topic of conversation here. No immediate numbers given by Saudi officials, but some implicit acknowledgement that oil production may be coming in the weeks or months ahead. But today the president laid out, as you noted, key principles for the U.S. approach to the region. And in those remarks, Ryan, he really kind of captured the really kind

of genesis of this entire trip saying that this trip is about America's role in this region for the future. And it's the future that really drove every element about this. The future that if you're dealing in this region, a rapidly transitioning region just over the course of the last several years, and a region where China and Russia in particular have made inroads.

As the U.S. has started to turn in a different direction, you're likely going to have to deal with distasteful, often autocratic rulers. However that becomes to some degree a necessity. It's not just the president's overall position as he looks to reassert the U.S. role in this region. It's also one he laid out when responding to probably the sharpest and more personal of criticism, the tweet by Jamal Khashoggi's fiancee. This was what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sir, two quick questions if I may. First, we just heard from Jamal Khashoggi's wife who said after this visit the blood of MBS's next victim is on your hands. What do you say to Mrs. Khashoggi?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm sorry she feels that way. I was straightforward back then. I was straightforward today. What I -- this is a meeting not -- I didn't come here to meet with the crown prince. I came here to meet with the GCC and nine nations, to deal with the security and the needs of the free world, particularly the United States, and not leave a vacuum here which was happening as it has in other parts of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Ryan, that vacuum was something the president once again referenced today. And this really slots in with the lens through which he's viewed his foreign policy since he took office. This democracy versus autocracy, a very keen focus on China. There is a recognition that the region has started to shift and the U.S., in the president's mind, needs to now meet them in that shift laying out a series of principles he believed the U.S. can follow, really laden with diplomacy and engagement, trying to utilize alliances moving forward.

But there's no question about it. If there's one image that will come out of this historically, it will be the fist bump. The president hopes that the true takeaway from this will over time be the U.S. role and a new established U.S. role inside the region -- Ryan.

NOBLES: Yes. The White House obviously creating a cost-benefit analysis to this trip. We'll see if their measurements as to exactly how this was going to play out will work out.

Phil Mattingly, live from Saudi Arabia, traveling with the president. Phil, thank you.

At the same time of his murder Jamal Khashoggi was a contributing columnist to "The Washington Post." And in the wake of President Biden's meeting with the Saudi crown prince, the paper's publisher released this statement saying, quote, "The fist bump between President Biden and Mohammed bin Salman was worse than a hand shake.

[15:05:02]

"It was shameful. It projected a level of intimacy and comfort that delivers to MBS the unwarranted redemption that he's been desperately seeking."

And with me now to talk about this is Max Boot. He's a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He's also a "Washington Post" columnist.

So, Max, first your reaction to this Biden-MBS meeting, and the statement from the "Post's" publisher.

MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, obviously it's troubling to see Biden fist-bumping with MBS who has been reported by the U.S. intelligence community as being responsible for the operation that resulted in the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi. And obviously, you know, that's very disturbing to all those who knew Jamal and greatly treasured him.

But at the same time I also have some degree of sympathy and understanding for President Biden because, you know, it's very easy for those of us on the sidelines to castigate him but he has to balance competing interests, interests and ideals. And unfortunately U.S. presidents often have to deal with repugnant dictators to advance the country's interest. So I'm not sure that it's viable for the president of the United States to simply cut off a country as important to the global economy and to our regional security as Saudi Arabia is.

And I think, you know, what Biden is trying to do, which is to raise the issue of Jamal Khashoggi's murder, to talk about human rights violations in Saudi Arabia, but at the same time engage with MBS and Saudi Arabia, that's not very satisfying and it can even be -- it can even provoke outrage. But I'm just not sure that anybody has a better policy for the United States to follow.

NOBLES: Well, you talk about the economy, there's a micro aspect to the economy as it relates to Saudi Arabia and then a micro one that all of us are dealing with every time we fill up the gas tank and that is the price of gas.

The president left the region without any guarantees that the Saudis are going to do anything to increase oil production but Biden says he does expect the prices to come down in a couple of weeks. I mean, do you have any sense of whether the Saudis are actually going to deliver for President Biden?

BOOT: Very hard to know. I mean, this is all very opaque. These are meetings that happened behind closed doors with, you know, veiled understandings and quid pro quos. I just don't what really came out of it, but I think, you know, Biden has to try because he has to basically prioritize our problems and right now I would say Russia is priority number one. That's the most threatening enemy that we have to deal with.

We have to do something to lessen the impact of their invasion of Ukraine. We have to try to deny Russia oil revenues and we need to try to, you know, increase the supply of oil and decrease inflation in the United States and in Western Europe. And that's what Biden is trying to do by getting the Saudi -- asking the Saudis to try to increase production.

Again, I don't know if he's going to be successful. But I think it is a strategic necessity, distasteful as it may be, because we have to focus on the most immediate and gravest threat that we face right now, which is Vladimir Putin, not MBS.

NOBLES: And you know, there are Democrats that have been critical of the president and that is one of them is Congressman Adam Schiff, he tweeted this, "If we ever needed a visual reminder of the continuing grip that oil rich autocrats have on U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, we got it today. One fist bump is worth a thousand words."

What is your sense of how this gesture is playing in the region as a whole?

BOOT: I think it really depends on whose perspective you're looking at. I mean, I'm sure that our Arab allies in Israel are both very happy to see this. I'm sure Iran is not happy. I'm sure that there is consternation among human rights activists in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. All of those responses are totally understandable based on, you know, the different interests and perspectives of various people.

And again, I wish we hadn't seen this photo of the fist bump. That was kind of a Saudi propaganda ploy to take that picture and to disseminate it. But I'm sure the White House hated to see that out there. But, you know, at the same time, it's probably inevitable that something like that is going to happen because you just can't have the president of the United States completely cutting off relations with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia no matter what the kingdom does. And they've done some terrible, awful, horrible, brutal things. There's no question about it.

NOBLES: So beyond Saudi Arabia, President Biden did lay out his strategy for U.S. involvement in the Middle East as a whole. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Let me state clearly that the United States is going to remain an active and engaged partner in the Middle East. As the world grows more competitive and the challenges we face more complex, it's only becoming clear to me that how closely interwoven America's interests are with the successes of the Middle East.

[15:10:09]

We will not walk away and leave a vacuum to be filled by China, Russia, or Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So Iran being the key country he mentioned during that particular part of his speech, Max. What does engagement look like with Iran going forward?

BOOT: That's -- there's no obvious answer to that question because of the horrendous decision, one of the worst foreign policy blunders in U.S. history that Donald Trump made in 2018 which was to pull out of the Iran nuclear deal at a time when Iran was abiding by its commitments. At that point Iran's breakout time to acquire enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon was over a year.

Right now their breakout time is down to a few weeks. They're basically at zero. They can probably build a bomb at any point. That policy has utterly failed but so too has President Biden's attempts to cobble the Iranian nuclear deal back together. It hasn't happened and at this point it seems like it's likely to happen. And I think the reason why he just won't come out and say that is because there's no obvious plan B.

It's not -- there's no obvious what do we do next. I mean, the Saudis and the Israelis talk about, you know, ramping up sanctions, so do Republicans in the United States. Well, we've tried that. We have put the extensive sanctions in place already. We can try to put more sanctions in place but it's not going to unscramble the eggs, and it's not clear what, if anything, we're going to do. And I think, you know, sooner or later we're going to have to have a mature national discussion about are we going to be willing to accept an Iranian nuclear -- a nuclear armed Iran as we de facto accepted, for example, a nuclear armed North Korea?

Those are developments we're not happy with but it's not obvious that we have an alternative.

NOBLES: Yes. And you can't think of Iran in a vacuum, Russia, and what's happening in Ukraine plays into this, obviously China's role on all of it. So a very complex international situation that President Biden is dealing with.

Max Boot, thank you for helping us break it all down. We appreciate it.

Coming up, why the doctor who helped a 10-year-old rape victim get an abortion is now facing an investigation by her state's attorney general.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[15:16:28]

NOBLES: In Indiana a doctor is being investigated for helping a 10- year-old rape victim from Ohio get an abortion. The child was raped in early May and had to travel to get an abortion as Ohio law bans abortions around six weeks. The doctor told CNN the child was six weeks and three days into the pregnancy.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is following the story now. He joins me now.

So, Polo, this of course is a case that's garnered international attention, with politicians weighing in. Why is the doctor being investigated and how is she responding to all this?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's just a disturbing story that obviously the focus should continue to be on this 10-year-old little girl from Ohio, and her healing, but at the same time now the OB-GYN who assisted her in Indiana is terminating her pregnancy, she's now finding herself the subject of a state investigation being led by her Republican attorney general, Todd Rokita.

The possibility here at least what they're looking into is the possibility that there was a failure to report that abortion but what you're hearing from Dr. Caitlin Bernard here saying that she left basically a paper trail ensuring that she was following the right policies and the right protocols in the state of Indiana. In fact we independently obtained documents from the Department of Health and it clearly shows that she did, in fact, report that abortion that took place, as I look over the documents here, on July 2nd.

That would have been two days after that procedure was done which is exactly what the law calls for. So what you're hearing now is -- from the attorney that is representing this doctor now sending a cease and desist letter to Indiana's attorney general basically saying that he should, quote, "stop making false and misleading statements" is how they described, as her client followed the protocols and the procedures that are in place.

This is the conversation that Dr. Bernard's attorney had with our Erin Burnett last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN DELANEY, ATTORNEY FOR DOCTOR WHO PROVIDED ABORTION SERVICES TO 10-YEAR-OLD RAPE VICTIM: The part here that is so remarkable from our point of view is that Republicans want to pretend there is no 10- year-old rape victim. They want to pretend that Dr. Bernard made the whole story up because this case shows in full color the harm that is caused by abortion bans.

The outright abortion ban in Ohio is why that child had to travel to another state to get necessary medical care. It's outrageous and it's one of the most poignant example that we've seen recently of how bad these bans are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: As you'll recall that this chapter, this very disturbing story first happened just a few days ago when the attorney general went on FOX News and announced that he would be looking into this procedure and whether or not it was done lawfully, and whether or not it was reported lawfully. We have reached back out to the attorney general after this cease and

desist letter was sent his way, Ryan. We're still waiting to hear back.

NOBLES: All right, Polo Sandoval, live in New York. Polo, thank you for that.

Let's turn now to Washington and another high profile subpoena from the January 6th Committee. This one targeting the Secret Service. At issue text messages from January 5th and 6th of last year which the Secret Service says they erased. Now one committee member, though, said the House hopes those texts can still be found.

CNN senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz is tracking this.

So, Katelyn, what is the status of these texts and how soon could the committee be seeing them?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ryan, we do -- we're already hearing now that this could get resolved fairly quickly. The Secret Service does indicate they want to turn over what they have to the House Select Committee. But this is an issue that we didn't even know about 72 hours ago, that was when the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general, the watchdog overseeing the Secret Service, investigating for January 6th for more than a year, tells Congress that text messages were erased as part of what the DHS says was a data migration process.

[15:20:13]

Something that was ongoing. And there were texts missing from phones on January 5th and January 6th, 2021. So two crucial days. The House Select Committee then got a briefing from the IG yesterday on Capitol Hill and the members emerged from that quite concerned. I know you were there and saw them. They were all speaking about wanting to get to the bottom of it. And so last night we saw them issue that subpoena. They're asking for the text messages if the Secret Service has them.

The Secret Service seems to indicate maybe they do have some of them. They also want any after-action reports. So anything that could explain what happened there. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren on the committee, she said a little bit more about why the committee is looking into this right now. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): The Secret Service was aware that this was one of the signature events of our country and that there would be a need to preserve all of the evidence because of that, and also, there's an obligation for federal agencies to retain records. So this is troubling, but they've said they've got the texts and the committee intends to get them all, ASAP.

(END VIDEO CLIP) POLANTZ: So we don't really have a full explanation from the Secret Service still. But we do have a statement this morning from the Secret Service chief of communications, saying they're going to be cooperating as they have been doing. We've already voluntarily provided dozens of hours of formal testimony from special agents and over 790,000 unredacted e-mails, radio transmissions, operational and planning records. We plan to continue that cooperation by responding swiftly to the committee's subpoena. So that's the latest from them.

NOBLES: Yes. Of course, they've handed a lot except those days of January 5th and January 6th. Maybe the most important. So we'll see if the committee ends up getting those.

Katelyn, we're also hearing of a meeting between the former President Trump and a conservative lawyer suggesting that he takes steps similar to martial law. What can you tell us about that?

POLANTZ: Right. So "The New York Times" unearthed this memo and posted it publicly. We didn't know about this before. But what it explains is that Trump was having people in his ear that we didn't even know about in late December of 2020, leading up to those crucial days where all kinds of things came together for January 6th.

So this lawyer, his name was William Olson. He and Trump spoke on Christmas Day and then three days later Olson memorialized what happened in that phone call in a memo and he basically said the lawyers around Donald Trump, and the administration, Justice Department, White House Counsel's Office were not serving him and something needed to be done. He needed to replace those people. And one of the quotes there is the media will call this martial law but that is fake news.

NOBLES: And we know that the president did attempt to try and put a new attorney general and it didn't work out that way.

Katelyn Polantz, great reporting as always. We appreciate it. All right.

So let's now bring in Mark Leibovich, he is a staff writer at "The Atlantic," of course he's got a brand new book out there called "Thank You for your Servitude: Donald Trump's Washington and the Price of Submission." It is a must read.

Mark, I'm just starting it, I have to admit, I haven't gotten through the whole thing yet but it's one of those books you can't put down especially if you're someone like me who takes politics in Washington news through the veins.

First, I want to get your reaction to President Trump lashing out at Secret Service agents on the day of January 6th. Maybe some of the most explosive information that the committee has unveiled up until this point. And it's interesting, despite their attempts to try and, you know, undermine the credibility of Cassidy Hutchinson, no one denies that he was mad at his agents and he wanted to go to the Capitol.

You know, looking at this cynically, is there a way for Trump allies to spin this in his favor?

MARK LEIBOVICH, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: No, I don't think they're trying. I mean, I think one of the main points of this book is that Donald Trump could have been stopped theoretically by some of the punitive leaders of the Republican Party, whether it was Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy or Lindsey Graham or whoever. They just didn't.

And I think one of the things we're seeing here, I mean, I don't think it's news that he was mad at the Secret Service. It seemed to be he was mad at everyone that day. But there was no -- there just didn't seem to be any apparatus around him at all that was capable of telling him, no, enough is enough, this is a very destructive, you know, moment for our country, you know, let alone getting lawyers through the door and getting them in his ear, and he seemed to be willing to believe anything at that point.

So, look, I mean, this was a really precarious situation. You've been in Washington a long time, I've been in Washington a long time, and this was -- yes, this was a scary few weeks. And, you know, it's even more scary now in retrospect knowing that there were just no, you know, checks on his authority at that point.

NOBLES: Yes. And you have argued for a while now that this didn't happen in a vacuum.

LEIBOVICH: Of course not.

NOBLES: It wasn't just this couple of weeks and it was really kind of created by Trump enablers. And you talk about how, you know, they've gotten a lot of what they wanted in this gamble that they took with Donald Trump.

LEIBOVICH: Absolutely. Yes.

[15:25:01]

NOBLES: They've got Roe v. Wade overturned, an expansive new interpretation of the Second Amendment, there's a 6-3 Supreme Court majority that could be there for decades.

In the wake of all this, is there any reason for these enablers to continue enabling Donald Trump if they've gotten everything they wanted?

LEIBOVICH: Partly because they all know it's wrong. Because, you know, as anyone who's covering this administration or Congress, this Republican Party knows, the gap between what people are saying to people like us and others privately has never been greater between what they're saying, the adulation they're sending his way, the fear they have of Donald Trump in public.

And to me that goes to a certain dereliction of duty. And the fact is Donald Trump remains the Republican sort of standard bearer until told otherwise. I think he'll run. I think if he runs he'll probably win the nomination. And he is I think most Republicans on the Hill now would say that he's a problem for Republicans. I mean, he's a problem for Democrats, too. There's no question. But ultimately, he could have been stopped and no one is stopping him.

NOBLES: So have we gotten to a point now where, is it about Donald Trump or is it about his base? Have the enablers essentially lost their opportunity to stand up to them because Donald Trump to a certain extent has coopted the Republican Party?

LEIBOVICH: You would think -- sorry, (INAUDIBLE). You would think. I mean, you know, if he can survive January 6th, if he can survive losing an election and just sort of keep right on going, unless someone is going to get in his way, whether it's, you know, again, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy saying enough is enough, he's going to keep going.

And look, there's this super power that Donald Trump seems to have which is that his base is very loyal to him. It's been a very durable base of support. I would argue that the reason the base has been so strong for him is because every other punitive leader in the party has waved a white flag. They have not bothered to stand up to him.

He has been -- you know, he said to me back, I remember during the '16 campaign, he said, you know, one thing I'm good at is sort of seeing weakness in people, and exploiting it and just sort of, you know, just doing what I'm told, or not, doing what I want to do until I'm stopped. And that sort of proved correct. I mean, no one stopped him in 2016, no one has really stood in his way in the Republican Party ever since.

NOBLES: I'm fascinated about your take on Mike Pence. We saw during Pat Cipollone, portions of his testimony that he suggested Mike Pence should be given a Medal of Freedom for how he behaved on January 6th. Certainly that was courageous. But you've described him as one of Trump's biggest enablers. You say, quote, "No one did complete submission the way Pence did. The hushed voice, the bowed head and the quivering reverence for my president, this extraordinary man."

And then you go on to say, "Pence didn't just attach himself to Trump in the standard sense of being a loyal vice president, Pence stood by his man in the most nakedly servile of ways." And even though he did stand up to him on January 6th, and even though he has said Donald Trump was wrong, he hasn't done a heck of a lot more to distance himself politically or, you know, from a policy standpoint. And he's really done very little to criticize the way Donald Trump behaved during that period of time.

LEIBOVICH: Absolutely. He's really -- other than saying, you know, he was wrong, he hasn't really said much at all. I mean, his brother, Greg Pence, you know, still in Congress but has been -- you know, hasn't been critical at all. I mean, I would say that -- look, Mike Pence did the bare minimum. I don't want to diminish that. In a very, very pivotal and scary moment in our history, Mike Pence did, you know, I think do the right thing. And I think most people have sort of privately hailed him for that.

But of course the dynamic in the Republican Party now is you can't say that and because of that Mike Pence probably has no shot at all of being the nominee of the party because, you know, Trump is trashing him all over the place. And he's just not -- I mean, I don't quite know where he goes if he wants sort of career back. But it's just very -- you know, I think two things can be true at once. I think, you know, he did do the bare minimum but ultimately it was important so he should be given credit.

NOBLES: Right. Right. So, I mean, this is kind of a loaded question because what is normal.

LEIBOVICH: Right.

NOBLES: But does the Republican Party ever go back to what we thought of the Republican Party being before Donald Trump?

LEIBOVICH: They had a chance. They had a number of chances. You know, first they nominated Donald Trump and then he won the presidency. They could have easily moved on after the election. They chose not to. January 6th. I mean, one of the terms we use all the time of course is off-ramp, or, look, you know, you can just like walk away. Take the off-ramp. No one did. And I don't know if it's because of their own self-interest or weakness or inertia or path of least resistance or what. But that's what this book is about and that's I think been the story of Washington the last six years and it seems to be continuing.

NOBLES: Yes. All right, well, Mark Leibovich, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

And once again a plug for your book. Make sure you check out Mark's new book "Thank You for Your Servitude: Donald Trump's Washington and the Price of Submission."

And tomorrow join CNN's Drew Griffin for a new investigation into Steve Bannon and his masterplan to reshape the U.S. government and the Republican Party. The CNN Special Report "DIVIDED WE FALL" begins tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m.

And coming up, President Biden is predicting Americans will see better prices at the gas pumps in a couple of weeks but is his optimism justified? Will you really be paying less?

We'll have some answers next. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[15:34:33]

NOBLES: After meetings in Saudi Arabia, President Biden is predicting that Americans will see lower gas prices in what he said, another couple of weeks.

But the president is coming home to a devastating blow to his sweeping economic packages. After months of negotiation, Senator Joe Manchin once again pumping the breaks over tax hikes for the wealthy and climate action.

Consumer prices surged in June hitting a 40-year record at more than 9 percent.

Joining us is the author of "The System, Who Rigged It and How We Fix It," Robert Reich.

[15:35:57]

Robert, thank you for being here.

First, the president came out of Saudi Arabia saying we're going to pay less for gas. Are prices going to slow down? They're slowing down already but it's a slow decline.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY & AUTHOR: They've been coming down almost 40 cents a gallon. But one of the reasons that are pushing gas prices down is a lot of people can't afford the price of inflation.

You know, wages, relative to inflation are actually going down. People are very hard up right now. So they're not traveling as much as they were traveling before. So overall demand for gas is leveling out or declining. That is reducing prices at the pump.

Now, who knows what's going to happen in the future? I think a hurricane, for example, on the gulf coast, wiping out a couple refineries could cause gas prices to soar once again. It's a precarious situation.

NOBLES: There's an estimate by Wells Fargo that shows that energy earnings. This would be the companies the produce the gas that goes into our gas tanks, are going to grow by more than 200 percent this quarter.

How does that factor into what Americans are paying at the pump? Is this about supply and demand or energy companies trying to take advantage of the situation?

REICH: Well, Ryan, there's no doubt that energy companies have been taking advantage of inflation to raise their prices, you know, as high as they possibly can.

These big oil companies are making money hand over fist. They are showing record profits. There's absolutely no reason they ought to be raising their gas pump prices as fast and as much as they are.

That's why we need a windfall profits tax. Even the conservative government in Britain has passed a windfall profits tax on oil companies and we ought to do the same thing here.

NOBLES: Democrats have been trying to convince Senator Joe Manchin to get on board with their economic packages. He said he believes federal spending is the main driver of inflation.

I would guess you feel differently. Do you agree with his premises and second how does that impact the Biden administration going forward?

REICH: No. In fact, federal spending has actually declined in terms of all of those subsidies that were part of stimulus packages before. Those are over. Those are not contributing obviously to inflation. There's pent up demand as there's all over the world as the pandemic begins to decline, we hope.

But I think the real question mark hanging over what Joe Manchin is talking about is his refusal to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy.

If he were concerned about excess demand in the system, he would be in favor of raises taxes on the wealthy and corporations. That would bring down demand. It's obviously not the case.

I hate to impugn motives to people but I think Joe Manchin is one of the major recipients of big money from big corporations and the wealthy.

NOBLES: You literally wrote the book on this, so you should be able to answer this question.

But with prices so high across the board we all understand the problem at this point, but how do we solve it? What is the most direct solution to this problem?

REICH: If you're talking about inflation, Ryan, there are several things we can do. I worry about relying slowly on the Federal Reserve board to raise interest rates because that -- that -- when you have global inflation like we have right now.

And when there are so many companies that are pushing up prices that are, essentially, doing it in a way that maximizes their own profits but hurts a lot of consumers, having the Fed simply raise interest rates is not going to do much.

It's like pushing on a wet noodle. And the danger there, and I think it's a very profound danger, is that we don't come in for what's called a soft landing.

We have a crash landing. We may go into recession if the Fed continues doing what it's doing. And I think next week there's evidence that's going to raise interest rates again.

What we need in addition to a windfall profits tax we ought to go back to what we did before the Reagan administration and stop these companies from engaging in stock buybacks.

That's what they're doing with their excess profits. Buying back their stock to artificially prop up the stock. Stock prices would be lower than they are right now without those buybacks.

We ought to, in select industries, have some actual price ceilings. Some price controls. This is particularly true in pharmaceuticals and other industries we see dramatic price increases.

[15:40:00]

So many things can be done without relying solely on the Fed to engineer a -- well, a recession.

NOBLES: Talking about price ceilings on something like pharmaceuticals. That's a cost Americans have to make, right? They don't have an option to not take the drugs necessary to keep them healthy.

What options do they have? If you are an average person who has seen the dollar go so much -- not nearly as far as it once did, what can you do on a personal level to deal with this inflation that seems to continue to rise?

REICH: What people are doing, they are pulling in their boats. That's what you do. You can't rely on your own savings.

Most people in this country really are relying on paycheck to paycheck. They don't have much savings. So, you know, this really does call for some sort of federal response. Anti-trust enforcement is also very important.

One of the reasons so many companies and industries are able to raise their prices is because they don't have enough competition. That would help.

NOBLES: Robert Reich, thank you so much. We appreciate your perspective as always.

Be sure to check out Robert's book, as I said, he wrote the book on this, "The System, Who Rigged It And How We Fix It."

Lawyers for Brittney Griner say she was prescribed cannabis for pain. Does that change her legal case in Russia?

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[15:45:35]

NOBLES: New developments today in the Brittney Griner case. Lawyers for the WNBA star who's detained and on trial in Russia told the Moscow court that Griner was prescribed medical cannabis for what they call severe chronic pain.

This, as a Russian basketball player who played with Griner is coming to her defense.

Brian Todd has the latest.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Brittney Griner has to duck to get in her cell in a Russian courtroom. Once un-cuffed, she flashes a smile not seen since her incarceration.

She then holds up a photograph of the WNBA players who recently wore her number at the all-star game.

Her lawyers presented the court today with a key piece of evidence, a letter from a U.S. medical center prescribing Griner medical cannabis for, quote, "severe chronic pain."

JAMISON FIRESTONE, ATTORNEY WHO PRACTICED IN RUSSIA: It's not really hurt her. We're trying to make the judge sympathetic. So when she shows evidence like that, the judge can go, well, okay, the United States prescribed this and she's in pain. She's not a recreational drug user.

TODD: The American basketball star allegedly had less than one gram of cannabis oil in her luggage when she was apprehended at a Moscow airport in February, but it could still land her 10 years in a Russian prison.

JULIA IOFFE, FOUNDING PARTNER AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: I worry she is going to serve a year or two or three of her sentence before something gets hammered out.

TODD: Griner has pleaded guilty to drug trafficking charges but said she accidentally packed the cannabis oil and is trying for a more lenient sentence.

This week, her lawyers presented character witnesses. The general manager of Griner's Russian team and a teammate who spoke on her behalf.

EVGENIYA BELYAKOVA, TEAMMATE OF GRINER'S ON RUSSIAN TEAM (through translation): Brittney was always a great teammate. And that is why I am here, to support her and be there for her at this difficult time. We miss her so much. Miss her energy.

FIRESTONE: It's really hard to say whether any of it helps because this trial is so big that the Russian government is obviously watching it. And I don't think they're leaving (ph) the judge alone at this point.

TODD: One analyst says this case has become so high profile, even an offer to trade Griner for convicted Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout, who is in a U.S. prison, might not win her release.

IOFFE: I also worry that Vladimir Putin won't be satisfied with a simple prisoner exchange. He doesn't want to exchange prisons at this point. He wants sanctions relief.

TODD: The analysts we spoke to said, if Brittney Griner serves any portion of her sentence, it'll be in a penal colony.

They say the longer Griner might languish in a place like that, the greater the chance Vladimir Putin would believe the Biden administration would cave.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: Brian, thank you.

Coming up, new details in the death of Ivana Trump. That's next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[15:53:09]

NOBLES: New details about the death of Donald Trump's first wife, Ivana Trump. The New York City medical examiner said that she died of blunt impact injuries to her torso and ruled the death an accident.

Police say the 73-year-old was found unconscious and unresponsive in her home in New York City on Thursday. They reportedly are looking into whether she fell down the stairs.

Ivana and Donald Trump, of course, were married for 13 years. They had three children together, Donald Trump Jr, Ivanka and Eric Trump.

A fugitive drug lord on the FBI's most-wanted list with a $20 million bounty on his head has been captured in Mexico. Rafael Quintero was wanted for kidnapping, torture, and the killing of a U.S. DEA agent in 1985.

He was on the run for nearly a decade after he walked out of a Mexican prison in 2013 on a technicality. He was captured after search dogs and Mexican marines found him hiding under brush in the mountains in Sinaloa. Mexico says he will be extradited to the United States.

Now to the final race for the most decorated track and field athlete in U.S. history. Allyson Felix wrapped up her legendary career with her 19th world championship medal.

She took home the bronze in the four-by-400-meter relay at the track and field world championships in Oregon yesterday. The 36-year-old is retiring after a career spanning 19 years.

She first burst onto the scene in 2003. She's won more Olympic medals than any other U.S. track and field athlete, 11 medals at the games and seven of them are gold.

This week's "CNN Hero" is bringing hope and help to the village where she grew up in extreme poverty.

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NELLY CHEBOI, CNN HERO: Most of these computers are ending up in landfills.

Well, we have kids here, myself included, back in the day who don't know what a computer is.

[15:55:04]

We refurbish them. We install our own custom operating system, that is geared to teaching our kids troubleshooting and Internet skills.

We are working with institutions, colleges, companies, even individuals, and then we bring it to the schools.

All of you are going to be graphic designers today.

They can go from doing a remote class with NASA to music production, video production, recording, personal branding and so on.

That thing that was really frustrating was growing up not seeing change, not seeing hope, not even seeing progress.

I feel like with these kids I can see a path, I can see a way where they can make a living online and that is really like why we're doing this work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And to see the full story, go to CNNheroes.com.

We'll be right back.

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