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Uvalde Report Outlines Multiple Failures by Several Entities; Uvalde Mayor Releases New Bodycam Video of the Shooting; Uvalde Mayor Takes Questions Following Report Finding. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 17, 2022 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
DUSTIN BURROWS, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: We now have some baseline information we can report to the legislature. Help them basically make some decisions about systemic failures. I think each community can look at the thing we've laid out in this report and make some determinations about how to prevent that from happening.
I will tell you, not as a legislator, not as a chairman of this committee, but as a father, I have asked teachers at my schools, principals at my schools and others about some of the things that we learned to find out what the culture is and intend to continue to work on it. I think it takes everybody to continue to ask questions. Next question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chair, (INAUDIBLE). In your -- so what you guys have laid out in your 77-page report vastly differ than the stories we have heard over the past several weeks, especially from DPS. Given the fact that there were nearly 100 (INAUDIBLE), why have we heard so many different messages that were misleading, frankly, lies. Families here (INAUDIBLE) don't know (INAUDIBLE).
BURROWS: Thank you. I'm going to start, then I'm going to ask my colleagues if they want to comment as well. Multiple systemic failures. Our report does not look at other comments that have been made to try to compare and contrast and whatsoever. We laid out the basic facts as we were charged with to do. And what I said early on about law enforcement. The officers who knew or should've known that this was an active shooter situation by their training, experience, should have done more.
We are very clear on that. Not every officer on the scene had that same information and had that same opportunity to comply with their training. One of the things this committee has not done, because we're a three-person committee, is to go through and determine which law enforcement personnel knew what, what do they know and when they knew it. In order to do that I think that's going to take many months to go through all of the different video, body camera footage, and to figure out, and I think there's other investigatory arms trying to figure what did this person know, when did they know it, and, you know, what did they do with it.
And I think you're going to need all of that to try to make all of those questions. But we do say there was chaos on the scene, and certainly, certainly with the chaos people should've asked why is there not an incident commander, why there's not an overall commander outside the building helping try to organize that. Representative Moody and Justice Guzman, would you -- hold on a second I was going to let them (INAUDIBLE).
EVA GUZMAN, FORMER TEXAS SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: One of the things that we've learned from this is the importance of an incident commander and the information that's relayed out. We know we didn't have that here. And you're asking why the information was told the way it was, who knew what when. The failure to have an incident commander on the scene to receive information and to communicate with the media, I believe, in part, led to some of the information that was reported inaccurately.
BURROWS: Representative Moody?
JOE MOODY, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Just to dovetail on that because I think the question is looking at maybe how information flow went post the incident. And there is a section in the report about information flow and how we believe it is incumbent upon law enforcement as they make reports to report what is verifiable, understand what is verifiable and what is not verifiable.
So when the chairman talks about multiple systemic failures, one of those is the handling of information in this investigation. And that's why it's in the report in that section.
BURROWS: OK. Next question.
(CROSSTALK)
BURROWS: Yes, over here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we just hold it to one follow-up and give everyone else a chance? Rosa, go ahead.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) a lot of the families what they're asking for is tougher gun laws. Do the lawmakers here support tougher gun laws in Texas?
BURROWS: So, what I'm going to tell you is today is about what the committee was tasked to do. It was tasked to come up with the facts. And that is what the committee was charged with by the speaker. After a modicum of time, and by the way, there are other substantive committees that have explained this looking at the policies, going to debate everything.
After a modicum of time, out of respect for this report, all of us I assume will have the opportunity to make the comments about the policy, the changes, our feelings and what we think ought to be done. But today is not that day. If you ask me that question again, sooner than later I'll answer it for you. I'll be glad to answer it for you. And I think the members of this committee would be happy to do that. Just not today out of respect for what we've been asked to do and the report that we have. (CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold up. Name and who you're with.
[18:05:01]
SAM BROCK, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sam Brock. NBC News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thank you.
BROCK: (INAUDIBLE).
BURROWS: So I'm going to tell you, it's a great question. It is one that I wish I was in a position to answer about all of the mechanics of it. We spent 44 days looking at the facts to lay those out. You know, each different officer who is connected to an agency is going to have to do their own internal review. Everybody is going to have to figure out as I said who knew what and when.
And if somebody failed to exercise their training, if somebody knew there were victims in there being killed or dying and did not do more, I believe those agencies will have to find accountability for those officers. But that is not what we are tasked with in this report to come with. And I understand that, but the limit -- what we have done is put the facts forward so others can take a look at that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Representative Moody, Justice Guzman?
GUZMAN: Those facts will allow those agencies to take a deeper dive into the actions of law enforcement and hold them accountable. The report says if you're not willing to put the lives of the people you serve, of those children before your own, in my view, you should find another job.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the report (INAUDIBLE).
BURROWS: It's public record. Everyone has it at this point in time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next question. The lady in the hat over here. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
BURROWS: Great question. I actually learned from it from your reporting for the first time. It was not a meeting that we organized, we came at the mayor's invitation. I don't know the specifics of it, had not have had a chance to actually find out, but certainly there is nobody that I'm not willing to visit with and help understand, deliver a copy to.
And if somebody, you know, a family member did not go into the meeting, you know, I'd love to know the circumstances, love to sit down and visit with them. Happy to do that one on one. But, you know, that was not -- I did not ask anybody obviously not to be there. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And NBC back there in the dress, go ahead. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). Will all the documents be released (INAUDIBLE).
BURROWS: The answer to that is we will go with the House Precedent on Investigatory Committees. When a House investigatory committee is formed, we do our work in executive session and the documents that were delivered, most of those I legally cannot release unless I'm given permission to from a nondisclosure agreement. I've tweeted about that and made people aware, and happy to share the nondisclosure agreement with you.
But, you know, our hands are tied by precedent and some of the things that we had to do to obtain this, and also I don't know if there's any other investigations that have been alluded to, but I wouldn't do anything without consultation with the investigators in order to get something done to make sure they're OK with it to jeopardize that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person in the glasses with their hand up. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) with regard to the 376 police officers that were involved (INAUDIBLE) duty status? Are they still (INAUDIBLE)?
BURROWS: We are not advised at this time. You're going to have to talk to, you know, the different individuals, the agency heads. And, again, I'm, you know, I'm assuming they're going through a very complicated review of looking at bodycam footage to figure out what information was actually available, what was not, those types of things and we do not have -- able to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lady in the back with the face mask. I know there's a lot but you know who I'm talking about, right there in the glasses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
BURROWS: To make sure I understood your comment, in my report I think I've got it. So in my report I laid out that there is up to 80,000 school buildings that each -- the children of Texas attend throughout the days of the school year, and does it seem like a herculean task to actually overcome that?
I'm going to make a quick comment (INAUDIBLE) my colleagues, just want to make sure they get that chance to answer as well. We put that fact in there to make sure that when we talk about school hardening and school safety measures, or whatever that is, people remember there are 80,000 buildings in the state of Texas. And that is -- but, you know what? We have to recognize that as we talk about this policy. Representative Moody?
MOODY: Had an opportunity to visit with educators from Robb, not just during this process but today as well. And that idea of security and safety in moving forward, specifically for them and for this community is something that they're focused on, and we are helping focus on that with them.
[18:10:03]
But I think that the broader point about lessons learned and moving forward and why that number's important to know is that it is a large task, but our priorities, if our priorities are safety and security of our kids, then that is the task at hand. And so the job that we had here to set out facts to understand what's going on, that is an important fact to know. And, you know, my kids are in two of those campuses back home.
And so do I care about that, am I going to visit with folks back home? Like the chairman said, absolutely. And then we have an obligation going forward at the state level as well.
BURROWS: Justice Guzman?
GUZMAN: There's a section in the report on the school and the administrators. It's my hope that every school district takes some time to read this report. There were multiple systemic failures including not locking doors. I hope that every school district can look at this report and glean something from the lessons this unfortunate and tragic --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lady standing up in the dress by the cameras.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). The mayor of Uvalde, it looks like, following the (INAUDIBLE) of your report placed the city's police chief on leave to determine whether he should have taken over command that horrible day. What is your reaction as a committee? Also what is your reaction to the decision and based on your findings should he have taken (INAUDIBLE) that was (INAUDIBLE) clear in the violence?
BURROWS: So this is -- so the question was about the mayor's most recent actions. You know, I saw him earlier. He made mention of that. I don't know if our report, you know, gave him the emphasis to be able to do that or not. I'm not aware. But obviously, you know, you would need to talk to the mayor, and I respect the mayor's decisions, you know, after reading the report into doing, you know, what he thinks needs to be done to protect the people of Uvalde.
The second question that you asked was -- remind me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) should be allowed. Based on what you guys found out, should the police chief of the city taken over command?
BURROWS: Yes, I think at the end of the day, we do not specify which officers should've taken over command in here because that would be kind of a little bit of our opinion as to who should've. What I will tell you is this. There were officers in that building who knew or should've known more needed to be done. And there was also officers who should've seen some of the chaos going on in at least at a minimum.
If they didn't take over command or try to assume command, they should've began asking questions or offered their support and guidance, and eventually maybe they would have gotten command to have a better response from that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lady in the front row, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). I still have a follow-up, sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report says most of these babies were killed in that first barrage of gunfire before officers (INAUDIBLE) inside that building. How many could've been saved still is not known. How do you guys know that, and when will, you know, (INAUDIBLE) that information as far as who may have been able to be saved at some point?
BURROWS: So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how will that change during that stage?
BURROWS: There are autopsies and medical examiners that we do not have access to, I do not believe have been complete. I've never been a doctor. I've never gone back and done forensic exams. I'm not qualified to basically tell you who would or not have. We talked to enough to know what we were able to say. And obviously if we get more information -- this is a preliminary report, I want to be very candid.
You know, the decision that we made was we have done at least enough at this point in time to be able to issue a preliminary report. You know, I am not telling you it's conclusive, and I think there's other things out there that's certainly one of them that could be done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lady in the front row, please, and state your name and your affiliation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). The report say that you guys don't have access to all the material witnesses. (INAUDIBLE).
RYAN NOBLES, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We are going to step away from this press conference as it continues with members of the legislative investigative committee tasked with looking into what went wrong with the Uvalde school shooting because we do have some breaking news that we want to get to right now connected to this same story.
And let's go now live to Shimon Prokupecz, who is breaking this news.
Shimon, I understand you have been given access to some bodycam footage that the rest of us have not seen up until this point. Just walk us through what you've been able to obtain and the significance as to what it could tell us about what happened on that day.
[18:15:01]
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Ryan, it paints the chaos of the day. You know, we've spent the day reporting about the investigative committee's findings. And a lot of it talks about the chaos of the day, the lack of command. And what we see in this newly body camera footage that we obtained from the mayor, the mayor here of the city of Uvalde, Don McLaughlin, releasing it to us first.
What you see here is a picture of officers really not in control. You have officers outside of the school trying to assess the situation, and then you have officers inside. And specifically for the first time, you know, we've seen that video, Ryan, of the inside of the school, the hallway of the school. For the first time now on this body camera footage, we see Pete Arradondo, the school police chief.
We get to see him in action as he's talking to the officers, as he's near the door of where the classroom is, and some of the decision- making that goes into it. Certainly viewers may find some of the footage disturbing. So just a warning on that, certainly the language on the footage really depicts just that day what officers are facing and the chaos of that day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SGT. DANIEL CORONADO, UVALDE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Shots fired. Get inside. Go, go, go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot in the head.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): New bodycam video released by the Uvalde mayor shows the frantic first moments police arrived on scene at Robb Elementary. This video taken by Uvalde Police Sergeant Daniel Coronado as he made his way inside the building. But within moments more gunshots.
CORONADO: Shots fired inside the building in Uvalde.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which building?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't break.
CORONADO: Careful, guys. Shot fired.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can't break in here. Can somebody break?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in the classroom right here on the right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody in there?
CORONADO: Take cover, guys.
PROKUPECZ: After taking cover outside, Sergeant Coronado gives his first update on the situation to responding officers.
CORONADO: OK, guys. He's armed inside this building. We have it contained. He's going to be on the building on the west side of the property. Careful with the windows facing east right there. PROKUPECZ: Minutes later Coronado tells dispatch what he believes is
happening, that the gunman is in one of the school's offices, not a classroom.
CORONADO: Now the subject is in the school on the west side of the building. He's contained. We got multiple officers inside the building at this time. We believe he's barricaded in one of the offices. I'm outside. There's still shooting.
PROKUPECZ: But as the minutes continue to tick by, the urgency first seen by the initial response fades away. Instead Uvalde police officers are seen hunkering down waiting for more backup. Critical moments pass by at a time children were still alive in the classroom. At one point you can hear Sergeant Coronado asking for permission to open a door into the hallway where armed officers are already inside.
CORONADO: Officers inside the building. Am I clear to open the door here on the south side of the building?
PROKUPECZ: It's after this moment that we learned that Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo is inside the building as other officers crowd around looking for guidance. Arredondo has been a central figure in the state's investigation of the shooting. DPS Director Steve McCraw calling his actions on the day of the massacre a, quote, "abject failure." As more officers arrive and more inaction, you can hear police begin to seek direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we doing here?
PROKUPECZ: We also have video from Officer Justin Mendoza who also arrived on the scene. At 11:58 local time, police helped the first students and teachers from a nearby classroom escape the building. At the same time, Sergeant Coronado can be seen helping children escape from a window outside.
[18:20:01]
At this point it had been nearly 25 minutes since police first entered the building. More than 12 minutes later we get our first glimpse of Chief Arredondo in the hallway of Robb Elementary. You can hear him pleading with the gunman to give up, but seemingly unaware that children may still be inside the classroom.
CHIEF PETE ARREDONDO, UVALDE CONSOLIDATED INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT POLICE: Just let me know if there's any kids in there or anything? This could be peaceful. Would you tell me your name? Anything I need to know, please?
PROKUPECZ: Moments later a critical piece of the puzzle from the camera of Officer Mendoza. 911 dispatch gives a chilling account from a student still in the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: We do have a child on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that? UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: It's going to be room 112. (INAUDIBLE).
He is in a room full of victims at this moment.
PROKUPECZ: And yet even with that information, six minutes go by without any sort of response. Then we see Arredondo with a set of keys trying and failing to make entry into a classroom near where the gunman is barricaded, eventually handing the keys off to another officer who does make entry.
More heavily armored officers arrive, but no one gives the order to go in. Then suddenly a new round of gunfire.
But after those gunshots, Arredondo again tries to talk with the shooter.
ARREDONDO: Can you hear me, sir?
PROKUPECZ: And, again, minutes later --
ARREDONDO: Sir, if you can hear me, please put your firearm down, sir. We don't want anybody else hurt. I know. I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to get them out.
PROKUPECZ: After no response, police still stand around without much urgency. Over the course of the next nearly 30 minutes we see more officers arrive. The video obtained by CNN cuts out moments before police breach the classroom and kill the shooter at 12:51 local time. By then, many young innocent children and their two teachers were dead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PROKUPECZ: And so, Ryan, this certainly paints a more complete picture. Remember that video that leaked of the school hallway really upset the mayor here, Mayor Don McLaughlin. He was furious over that leak because he felt it was unfair to the families and he also felt that it was unfair to the investigation because it only showed us one side of what was going on in that school.
And so this new video, and this is why he released it, Ryan. What I think our viewers need to understand is that the district attorney, the investigators here have been holding this video back. And he felt that out of transparency, for transparency purposes, out of fairness, that this side of the investigation, that this side of what happened that day needed to be released. He potentially faces some kind of consequences for doing this, but he says he doesn't care.
He's even been afraid that perhaps a district attorney would prosecute him if he was to release this information. But he feels that in fairness to the family, in fairness to this investigation that it needed to be released.
And the other thing we should note for viewer is that we did not publish this. We did not air this video until we knew that family members had been made aware that this video existed and that the mayor said that he would be releasing it. And so we took a lot of that into consideration of course.
But I think this video is very important. It takes, you know, people inside the halls of that school. It shows the police response and just how terrible it was, how some of the decision-making was very confusing. You had officers outside who really didn't know what was going on inside. And as we heard all day, there was no command structure. There was no one making decisions. And it was kind of a free for all.
And I think this video illustrates that. It also shows that officers were getting kids out of the other classrooms, of course, and rescuing those kids. But significant of course in all of this is the fact that this police response just really was so bad, and I think that's what this video illustrates. And that's why the mayor said, look, I know this is going to probably not be great for us, but it needs to be released.
And as they announced today, they will be making changes to the police department and also enhancing some training and making some new measures so that hopefully, you know, of course this doesn't happen again -- Ryan.
NOBLES: Shimon, that is hard to watch. There's no other way to describe it. Especially, you know, hindsight is 20-20. But to see and hear those gunshots going off and knowing what was on the other side of that door is just unbelievable. And then to see the police officers not even knowing for 100 percent certainty that the gunman was in a classroom with children is just, I don't know, it almost leaves you speechless.
PROKUPECZ: It's the confusion of that -- I think we keep hearing. I think this is so important. There was just an extreme amount of confusion for some reason.
[18:25:03]
And the fact that people didn't know that you had a sergeant who's outside making these decisions, it just seems strange. He was asking for the wrong things. He had no idea what was going on inside. And I think that's where the breakdown clearly was. And, you know, we saw that in the report and of course we've been hearing a lot about that. But, you know, there's still a lot of unanswered questions.
There's still other footage that we need to see and radio transmission. So we're getting there, and I think this is the other thing. We have been asking for this video for quite some time, really since the beginning. And, finally, we have it here and the mayor, I think it was the families, hearing the families, our interviews with the families, him listening to the families, and so we kept asking him for it, and finally he said it was time to release it for transparency reasons.
And so here we are today. And I think it will give viewers -- it's difficult to watch certainly, but it will give them another perspective of what happened here, and it's a very important perspective. NOBLES: Yes, I mean, I think the best example of sunshine being the
best disinfectant, the more information we know about this the better, not the less. The mayor making the smart decision, I think, to get this information out primarily for the families to see it but then also for reporters, investigators and others to piece this whole thing together.
Shimon, excellent reporting, as always. Stay there. We're going to get back to you with more as we learn more about what happened in this press conference.
But let's now break down both things that we've just heard from first the press conference and also this exclusive video that was obtained by Shimon. Let's bring in former New York Police Department detective Andy Bershad, retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, and CNN Legal analyst Loni Coombs.
Let me start with you, Andy. You saw that video. You saw the chaos. Just from a law enforcement perspective, how frustrating was it to see exactly what played out there for such a lengthy period of time when there were vulnerable children at risk?
ANDY BERSHAD, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: I don't even have words for how frustrating it is. Obviously when you're in the midst of a job, the chaos needs to be controlled. When you know you're at a school, you know there's victims there, children, you know, adults, children, regardless with active fire, entry has to be made. And to watch the breakdown in communication, I think the potential lack of training and multiple agencies trying to operate together, it sort of starts falling apart. And even I heard during the conference they had, there was a systematic collapse of errors, absolutely.
NOBLES: Sergeant, your response as well, just give us your reaction to what you saw.
CHERYL DORSEY (RET,), RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: It's embarrassing. You've got a police chief who understands the buck stops with him. And we see him fumbling and fiddling with a key ring of keys trying to get into a classroom. He's begging and pleading with someone who's massacring children real time, talking to him so politely and carefully, asking him questions that obviously he's not going to respond to.
He is the incident commander, and now all of a sudden he wants to pretend like he wasn't in charge. That's his school district, those are those his police officers, and clearly they're not trained, they're ill prepared. And now he is trying to minimize and mitigate this bad behavior. And so while he's been relieved of duty, understand he's a 30-plus-year veteran law enforcement officer. He'll retire. And I'm afraid that there will be no real accountability, no real justice for these families.
NOBLES: So, Loni, that leads to you. What type of accountability can there be? Is there legal liability in what you saw in this videotape and just the other information you know about what happened in terms of the law enforcement response? LONI COOMBS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Ryan, I think the most important
question for the victims' families is accountability. Who's going to held responsible and liable for what's happened here. We've heard already some talk about some administrative liability being instituted already. We heard that the mayor has suspended the chief, it was the lieutenant of the Uvalde Police Department based on what happened because he was there at the scene.
We need to see more of that. We need to see more administrative liability, which is essentially where each agency, there were eight there, goes through their protocols and rules, and then goes through the actions of each one of their agents or deputies that were there on the scene and see if they followed their protocols or rules or not. And we all know that since Columbine, the protocols for everyone in an active shooter situation is to go and stop the shooter.
Not to wait for backup. Not to wait for tactical. To go in and stop the threat. And this was clearly not done here. As far as this breaking video, Ryan, I think it's really interesting from what Cheryl said, you know, we heard Arredondo saying hey, look, I didn't -- I wasn't in charge, I didn't consider myself to be the incident commander. However, you see from that video he is the one that is all over that door, right? He is the one right there where you would be breaching the crime scene to go to the shooter. And he is the one calling the shots.
[18:30:01]
He's also on his phone. He says his radio wasn't working, but he was on his phone. Why wasn't he getting that information from the 911 calls that children were inside there still alive? We saw that from the sergeant. He got a radio call or some information about the 911 call. Why wasn't that passed to Arredondo? So I agree with Cheryl. I think that Arredondo is really facing some potential liability here.
Now, Ryan, usually the police are not criminally charged in these cases. There is no constitutional duty for police to go in and stop harm or violence. They don't have to act. They're not liable for that. However, because we're having so many of these shootings, we're seeing lawsuits being filed trying to hold people accountable.
(CROSSTALK)
NOBLES: And we also --
COOMBS: We saw that there the prosecutor did file against the school resource officer saying you're not just a police officer, you have a caretaker duty here, which elevates your role. So we are going to hold you negligent because you were supposed to be in charge of taking care of these children, and you could say the same thing here for the Uvalde School District Police Officers, specifically this police chief.
This department was created solely in 2018 to protect the children of Uvalde from active shooter incidents. That's their training, that's their budget, that's everything they do. And they were there on that scene. They should've taken control and they should've protected those children.
NOBLES: Yes. And your point about whether or not he was in charge. He also appears to be the one, at least from this video clip that we've seen, was doing some level of negotiating with the shooter. Obviously not very effective, but he's the only one that appears to be doing that. So we've learned a lot.
Andy, I know you want to jump in. We've got a lot more to talk about. I need you all to stand by if you can. Andy Bershad, retired Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, Loni Coombs, please stand by. We're just going to take a quick break. A lot more to unpack as this story continues. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:57]
NOBLES: In just moments ago the mayor of Uvalde spoke following the release of this scathing report about the response to the school shooting. Let's listen in. This is the mayor of Uvalde, Don McLaughlin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR DON MCLAUGHLIN, UVALDE, TEXAS: The city has a responsibility to evaluate the response to the incident by the Uvalde Police Department, which includes the Lieutenant Pargas' role as acting chief. His -- excuse me. His administrative leave is to investigate whether or not Lieutenant Pargas was responsible for taking command on May 24th, what specific actions Lieutenant Pargas took to establish that command, and whether it was even feasible given all the agencies involved and other possible policy violations.
Second or next, we agree with the committee's review of the incident that there was a failure of command all around. However, we have further questions as to who was responsible for taking command as each agency there has senior level commanders on site. So we want to know which agency took what specific actions to take command and where did the critical breakdown occur.
The city of Uvalde will be conducting an internal investigation regarding our police department's actions and our policies and procedures. I have told you this would happen since day one. We are currently waiting on DPS to release the Uvalde Police Department officers' official statements taken immediately after the incident. These are critical to our own internal investigation.
The city has selected Jesse Prado, an expert in the field, to conduct the internal investigation. As soon as DPS releases these reports, as we have requested, Mr. Prado will begin his review and assessment. That will also include a specific review of Lieutenant Pargas' action as acting chief of police that day.
As mayor of Uvalde, the city only had --
(MISSING AUDIO) MCLAUGHLIN: To place Lieutenant Pargas on administrative leave and conduct a full internal investigation. However, it is imperative that each agency on site at Robb School that day commits to the same process and investigation of highest ranking on-site officers' actions that day.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, you have a lot of families, Mayor, who are saying not enough is being done to hold the officers accountable. What do you say to those families? I know you only have jurisdiction over the city's police department, but a lot of families are calling for all officers involved to be fired.
MCLAUGHLIN: Sure. Again, two things I will tell you. One, until this hallway video is released, and again, I want to say while you were all here, this many of you, the way you released that video, that was wrong. To blindside those families.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So let me call (INAUDIBLE) son of a bitch.
MCLAUGHLIN: Because, sir, that wasn't the proper place to have that --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't like what you're saying.
MCLAUGHLIN: Sir, I don't care if you have --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, is Lieutenant Pargas --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And did you receive any explanation as to why he didn't take command of the scene?
MCLAUGHLIN: I do not have an answer.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLAUGHLIN: I haven't talked to any of my police officers. I've been directed not to talk to them.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Called the newspaper people. One of the audience told -- they've told you about police, you changed the subject right away. They said that -- he said they were not -- they were cowards, not chickens. Cowards or jack rabbits because they were running the other way. They were running away from the building.
MCLAUGHLIN: And we're going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
[18:40:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he's the grandfather of one the children.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grandfather of one of the children.
MCLAUGHLIN: I understand, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come they're giving away (INAUDIBLE). Huh?
MCLAUGHLIN: Sir, I don't have anything to do --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before -- no, that instead of putting locks in the buildings.
MCLAUGHLIN: I don't have anything --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they're not taking responsibility?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you have accountability as a mayor? Speak up.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLAUGHLIN: You know as well as I do, the school district elects the school board, and that's who rules the independent school district. You know it and I know it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they're principals and teachers. Where the hell were they?
MCLAUGHLIN: You're going to have to ask the school district that. I can't answer that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, there were a lot of families in the audience today that were visibly upset at the fact that the report is only in English, and you have a predominantly Hispanic --
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, we were getting ready -- I mean, I didn't write that report.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But is there anything you can do --
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. We've already asked them. They said they would get one written in Spanish.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But in two weeks.
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, we'll see if we can speed that up. I'll ask.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, does the report give you any satisfaction? Now that it's out, do you still think that there was a cover-up? MCLAUGHLIN: Do I still think there's a cover-up? Well, let me put it
this way. This has been the worst professionally run investigation that -- I mean, I've never seen anything of this magnitude. But you all have. Do you think this has been conducted in a professional manner?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So should charges be filed then? There's been a lot of conversation about charges.
MCLAUGHLIN: I mean, I'm not an attorney and I'm not going to be the one to make that decision. That will be the district attorney or whatever. They'll review the files and do that. But this investigation, there have been little bitty leaks here and there, little bit of snippets here and there, and all we've spent our time -- just like when they said the officer had a chance to shoot the shooter, that was not true.
And they finally admitted that. It was not true. But that's the kind of stuff that has gone on constantly. And the only people that are being blindsided by that is these families. These families. They have been blindsided since day one because they have got no information, and just like that video dumped on them while they were out of town to go to Washington and that video was dumped on them, and nobody even had the decency to edit the shooter out and the gunshots. That was wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think the officers are getting the raw deal?
MCLAUGHLIN: No, I didn't say the officers are getting a raw deal. I didn't say that at all. I said every agency there has to be accountable for themselves, and we are doing an internal investigation, and we will look at every officer's actions that day. Period. I'm not saying -- I didn't say anybody got a raw deal.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, can you speak to the claims that Uvalde law enforcement tried to manipulate the narrative and --
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, I can answer that to you. The same way I can. So let me ask you this. Why don't you go see Colonel McCraw and you ask him face to face. Why don't you go see the chief of staff for the governor, and you ask him face to face, and then ask Colonel McCraw, the other DPS officers of their meeting. What the meeting was about? The meeting was about Colonel McCraw, we're tired of the bullshit links, we're tired of the bullshit stories and we're tired that you said no law enforcement officers are cooperating.
That was their statement. But the city of Uvalde and the school district police officers has not cooperated since day one and that is a lie. We have given 100 percent of everything they have asked for. And so we requested that meeting with the DPS and the governor. And I even talked about it at the June 21st council meeting. So if I was trying to manipulate this, why did we wait 47 days to come out and say I tried to manipulate that meeting?
What we told them was, if they were going to take the stand that we weren't cooperating in that, then we would release what we knew about what happened that day. And we didn't ask them to change the narrative, we didn't ask them to support a narrative or anything. And that's what went down that day. And any one of those people want to sit here or go into a meeting with them, I'll be happy to because we did not try to manipulate anything.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who was in that meeting, Mayor?
MCLAUGHLIN: The governor's chief of staff, the governor's counsel, Colonel McCraw and he had three DPS officers that I do not remember their names, Christina Busbee was there, County Judge William Mitchell was there, County attorney John Dodson was there, City attorney Paul Tarski was there and assistant city manager Joe Cardenas was there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So all of you guys were there and you chose not to release information?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. We were told by the district attorney at that time that we weren't going to release anything, and she would come out and make a statement that all law enforcement agencies had been cooperating. And so at that point we were told -- that's the famous day that we were told we would be prosecuted and she would seek gag orders if anything was released.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did Chief Rodriguez agree with your decision to put the acting chief on administrative leave?
MCLAUGHLIN: It wasn't my decision. It was basically the city manager's and the chief's decision.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sir, how long is your internal investigation going to take?
MCLAUGHLIN: As long as it takes to get all the answers and know the facts.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And for the families -- and I understand it's a process, it takes time for the families who are just not satisfied with this. I mean, what do you say to these families?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I mean, I talked to a bunch of them today, and I told them, I understand their concerns, I hear -- we heard them, and those concerns I would take back to city council and to the city manager and the police chief.
[18:45:02]
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, what do you want to say to those family members who were kicked out of the meeting? They are parents who lost their babies to --
MCLAUGHLIN: You know, I don't know what that situation is there. I don't know what the deal -- as the mother was screaming at me, or the biological parent. But I met with some of the family members. They have a group that they all get with, I worked with the junior college, the legislative committee to share this with the family. So I don't know what that man's relationship is with his daughter. I don't know what it was.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There's three dads who were not allowed into this meeting. So why?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you're asking me something -- you need to be talking to him and to the rest of the family. I have no control over that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So who's inviting these families to these events where they're getting --
MCLAUGHLIN: The families made the list of who was coming to that meeting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So the families get to pick and choose who gets information?
MCLAUGHLIN: It was immediate family. Again, you're asking me something that I can't tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They're telling me they're pointing fingers at you. So that's why I'm asking --
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I mean, point the fingers at me. But -- so, is your biological daughter here? Are you going to let her in that meeting? That's what you want me to tell them standing at the door? That's his parents? I'm not going to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The governor certainly after (INAUDIBLE), says that he was deceived. It wasn't by the way clear from the report how he was deceived. Is it any clear to you what the --
MCLAUGHLIN: Look, there's no question, there's no question. The DPS narrative is changed at least four times, maybe five in this deal where he said that day he was -- or what he was told that first day or that day that he went out there and talked to the state. That's what he said he was livid about. I haven't talked to the governor in four weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is there a sense that you both got bad information from the DPS?
MCLAUGHLIN: There's no question. I was in that meeting. And then the next day the same man that gave that information to the governor was making a press conference the other day contradicting everything he said the day before. And you know when we found out about it? On the damn news. They didn't even have the decency to come and tell us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They say that they don't have trust. Not just to law enforcement but in elected leaders because they have been --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- contradictory information. How do you repair trust in your leader?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I mean, this is something we'll have to do. I have told my citizens in the council meeting at any given time if they don't think I'm fighting for them and won't go to bat for them, they can have my resignation, not a problem. I get 50 bucks for this job. $50 a month. I do it because I love this community. So if these families or this community feels like I'm not doing a job, I'll be happy to step aside and give somebody else the keys.
Do you think I enjoy this every day? Do you think I enjoy having to look at 19 families every day or talk to them and tell them? Because my heart's broken for them. But I'll never feel the pain that they're feeling. So, you know, if people don't have the trust in me or don't care, then fine. Let me know, I'll be happy to step aside. And you can elect who you want.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, is Lieutenant Pargas being paid while on leave?
MCLAUGHLIN: Do what? I can't -- I don't know what's the deal. I just know this is something -- I don't know if he's getting paid or not.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about other officers, Mayor?
MCLAUGHLIN: We will be doing (INAUDIBLE). As soon as we can do the internal review, like I said, once we get those results, the action will be taken.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are they still on the streets after being in Uvalde?
MCLAUGHLIN: Some of those officers are still on the streets.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And others, what's going on with them?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, as far as I know, some are gone, on vacation. I think we've had two quit. I don't know all the numbers at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you had any -- I'll just ask, any suicides?
MCLAUGHLIN: No, but it's a big concern of ours. Really big concern of ours. I mean, the one thing that -- look, there's no question there was a failure of command that day inside and outside that school district. No question. But one thing that every officer that was in that hallway will have to live with what happened in that room. That didn't help the families, but something they have to live with.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, at this last city council meeting, you said parents should go to this next school board meeting happening tomorrow night and voice their concerns and ask the school about systems in place to make sure this doesn't happen again because kids go back to school in less than a month. Is that still your same message?
MCLAUGHLIN: And they asked us to go to that council meeting and I'll be at that school board meeting. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mayor, forgive me if this has already been
asked. We were outside with one of the families a little earlier. At the very bottom of this report, it says that the alert report that came out a few weeks ago basically was wrong.
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I go back to the same thing. You have -- a report was written. A one-hour conference with the DPS is what I was told. With the DPS investigation, a one-hour conversation and then they had that report. That's what I'm going to say. This has been an unprofessional -- the way this thing has been handled since day one.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So for these families who, as you very well know, have given information that is contradicting, it goes back and forth, you hear that a report that was put out a couple of weeks ago is now being called incorrect by another report. What are they to believe?
[18:50:06]
MCLAUGHLIN: What can any of us believe? I mean, you know, this report that you got today it's not all the answers, but it's going to be the most truthful they've gotten to this point, in my opinion. I read it. It's the most truthful that they're going to see up until this point, and I don't think they're true and the next report is going to be the Justice Department's. That's what, you know, they're going to go through every agency too with a fine toothed microphone, or fine toothed comb, excuse me, and go through every agency, too. And we'll get that report, but that report may take six to nine months.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Going back, do you know how many officers --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBLES: OK. You are listening to a press conference from the mayor of Uvalde, Texas, Don McLaughlin. This was after a press conference with members of the Texas Legislative Investigative Committee that was tasked with looking into what went wrong in a school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, that killed a number of children and two teachers.
Let's bring back CNN's Rosa Flores. She was in the room for the press conference. She heard both the response from the committee and the response from the mayor.
You know, Rosa, it seems as though any time members of the community gather to ask questions of these officials that are in charge of looking into this situation, and were also in charge of preventing a situation like this from happening, it's just an incredible amount of frustration and I think we saw it on full display right there.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I talked to one parent who said that he felt rage. There's just so much anger in this community because of the catastrophic failures on multiple levels for multiple law enforcement agencies and also officials.
You know, you were just hearing there from the mayor asking questions -- I mean, excuse me, answering questions from the community and also from reporters. There were multiple people from the community asking him questions. And these people are extremely angry because you've got to think about it like this. OK? It's going to be nearly eight weeks since this mass murder happened in this community where 19 students and two teachers were massacred inside Robb Elementary School. And the mayor just now is announcing that he's doing an internal investigation.
So now put yourself in the shoes of this community. It's been nearly eight weeks. What has taken so long? Now there was a step that the mayor said that he took today and that was to suspend the acting Uvalde police chief at that point in time, but this community has been waiting for accountability for the past eight weeks. Now I asked the mayor that specific question. Why did you wait? He walked away and I didn't get an opportunity to follow up.
But what he did say was that Texas DPS had taken the statements from police officers and that they're waiting for those statements to be returned to the city. But here's what doesn't make sense to me, OK. So the mayor says that he did have information, the mayor released body camera video today that was in their possession obviously. So then why wait? If the city knew that information, then why wait, Ryan?
That is why this community is so frustrated because they keep on hearing the same thing at multiple levels whether it's the state, whether it's the city, whether it's the police, whether it's the school district. I mean, just think about this. Pete Arredondo, the school police chief, was put on administrative leave but he's still in that position. After reading this report I cannot even imagine what these families are going through knowing all of the catastrophic failures on that day.
And that's why there is so much outrage and so much rage in this community is because they are hurting. They have lost too many of their loved ones and they don't think they will ever get to the truth -- Ryan.
NOBLES: Wow. Rosa, excellent reporting capturing just the level of frustration that is just unimaginable in Uvalde, Texas.
Rosa, thank you so much for that.
Let's bring back in our panel of experts, Andy Brashad, a former detective for the New York Police Department, retired LAPD Police Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, and also CNN legal analyst and former L.A. County prosecutor Loni Coombs.
Sergeant Dorsey, I want to start with you. I know in many ways these families are asking for the answers to questions that are unanswerable. Right? This was such a catastrophic failure. No one is going to ever be able to explain it away. But should they be getting a better response from some of their officials, elected leaders and others than they're getting right now?
DORSEY: Absolutely. I mean, listen, everybody seems to be pointing the finger in the other direction and someone else. This mayor gets no brownie points from me. I mean, he was in lockstep with Governor Abbott on day one and now he understands, he's an elected official, and he understands that his butt is now in -- he's got problem.
[18:55:10]
And so he's saying everything that he needs to say to save his own tail. And so if he's not in it for the money because he only gets $50 a month, he's in it for the perks. Then do the honorable thing and go ahead and step down. What they need to do is get a whole new police department before this school year begins and have some really trained professionals there who will keep these children safe going forward.
The fact that Arredondo has been relieved brings me no comfort because I can say, this is a 30-plus year law enforcement officer. He's going to retire and they're going to throw buckets of moneys at these families in the very end and they will do nothing substantively to change what has happened and make sure that it doesn't happen again, and more importantly that the plethora of officers on scene are held accountable. Qualified immunity was off the table according to the GOP. This is why we need qualified immunity. Every officer on campus needs to go.
NOBLES: Yes. So, Andy, I'm interested in your reaction as well about not only the fact that obviously changes need to happen in Uvalde, but the chances that something like would happen again in this community are probably pretty slim. What needs to be done across the country to prevent a situation like Uvalde from ever happening again?
BERSHAD: Sadly these tragedies are going to become another training point similar to Columbine. We have to look at so many failures that we train that we look for to do including the chief's actions. We don't negotiate during active gunfire. We had confirmed calls. We talk about the breakdown in communication. But, you know, we have a 911 caller on the vide you just showed me telling me I have a child caller on the phone.
You're in a school. Entry was at no point and for 47 days later I believe it was, what your reporter stated, we still have no answers and a lot of finger-pointing. That's unacceptable. That's disrespectful to the families as the mayor was concerned about. I think it's disrespectful for me as a uniformed officer to have this just drag through and revisit the victim's family day after day after day.
It's got to be changed and looked and protocols are in place. You have protocols in place. I have seen them. One of the lines in the protocols is you need to be able to understand that you're going to be in danger. You're going to placed potentially to danger. And that wasn't done and I think training coordination as you're taking a small department with more agencies that don't normally operate together I think was a contribution to one of the multitude of errors that was going there.
NOBLES: But, Andy, put a point on that because those of us that haven't trained for situations like this need to understand this, right, because it does appear in that video that Shimon was able to obtain, that Arredondo, he's the one doing the talking, is trying to do some level of negotiation with the shooter and then we hear gunshots after the fact.
You don't negotiate with a shooter in a situation like that, right? Isn't that one of the things that law enforcement has set as a precedent after all these mass shootings is that negotiations don't work, that you've got to get in there and quell the problem as soon as possible?
BERSHAD: There was no time for negotiations. First of all, the chief should not have been involved with the negotiations at all. He's the incident commander with access to radio, he doesn't have his radio, he should have been overseeing the operation. The shots was started or during as the first officers arrived. Now again, no time for negotiation. Whether they want to try to designate it that it's contained, I saw no urgency to look for any second gunman, so they felt comfortable, whatever they felt they have him barricaded was subjected, but there were lives in danger.
For any negotiations going on, and especially after the second barrage of gunfire. Well, time to go in. We screwed up 30 minutes ago. Maybe we should get in now.
NOBLES: Right.
BERSHAD: Absolutely unacceptable.
NOBLES: And then, Loni, we have about a minute left. And, you know, again, accountability. That's the word that just keeps coming up over and over again. What does accountability look like to you?
COOMBS: You know, Ryan, it's interesting. In the report there's one part where it says the only villain there at the scene that day was the shooter. We don't believe anyone had malice or ill-will. I believe that those officers did not have malice or ill-will. I don't believe any of them wanted to those children to be hurt or killed.
However, you may not have malice or ill-will but if you don't have the courage to step in and make sure that those children are safe, if you don't have the courage to put your life on the line to save those children who are trapped with an active shooter, then you should not be a police officer.
And that's exactly what their training said. It said you will be called upon to put your life above those innocent lives and if you can't do this, find another job.
NOBLES: All right. Thank you all for your expertise. We appreciate it. There's a lot happening in a short period of time. We appreciate you all hanging with us and providing your perspective. Thank you so much.
