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Texas House Report Shows Multiple Failures by Various Agencies at Massacre; Jury Selection Begins in Steve Bannon's Contempt of Congress Trial; January 6 Committee Expects Subpoenaed Secret Service Texts by Tomorrow. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 18, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It's Monday morning, top of the hour. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us.

Failures all around, that is the headline from this new report. Texas lawmakers unveiling what is a stunning report with details about the Uvalde school massacre. It shows a, quote, overall lackadaisical approach by multiple law enforcement agencies on the scene. 19 children and 2 teachers were killed there that day, and it took 77 minutes to neutralize the gunman.

SCIUTTO: Here's another number, nearly 400 officers responded. A new body cam footage is giving a closer look at how they responded at Robb Elementary School that day, sometimes frantic, sometimes just disturbingly slow.

Unlike the earlier pictures from the school, surveillance camera, the new video includes close-ups from just outside classrooms 111 and 112, and reveals conversations between officers in the moment, even pleas, desperate pleas with the shooter.

We also see the moments some officers learned, and they did learn, they knew that children were among the victims on the other side of the door, and that one of them, at least one, was calling 911 from inside a classroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a child on the line.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what was that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A child called 911, sir. The room is full of victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's victims in the room? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A child on the phone, multiple victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A child just called. They have victims in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: A child on the line, a child who was alive calling 911, and those officers heard that from the dispatcher. Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin first gave this video to CNN saying he believes the families deserve transparency.

We begin in Uvalde with CNN's Ed Lavandera and Rosa Flores.

Ed, to you first this morning. Why does he say, the mayor believes it was so important for the public to see this, all of this, and big picture, what does it teach us? I mean, what it really shows, it seems, as we were discussing last hour, just shows multiple failures by multiple officers involved.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the mayor is saying that he is releasing this video out of a sense of transparency for the families that he feels have been treated poorly throughout this investigation, as the information has been so difficult to obtain, as all of this.

But it's also important to point out, Jim, that there has been a growing sense of bad blood between local officials and state authorities in particular to the Texas Department of Public Safety, an agency that had been saying for weeks that the real failure of all of this had really been pinpointed on the local school district police chief, Pete Arredondo, and the local officers at the scene who did not assume command of the situation.

This statehouse report goes on to say that law enforcement responders failed to adhere to their active shooter training, and that they failed to prioritize saving lives of innocent victims over their own safety. This report lays bare the failures at almost every level that happened during this response.

And what is so important about the new video that we have from the body camera footage, this is really, Jim, the first time we're able to see up close the response by the officers right outside the classroom where the gunman was inside, taking the lives of 19 children and 2 teachers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But chief was making contact with them, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no one has made contact with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (BLEEP). What are we doing here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we have anyone that's hit on this side? Any other kids, anyone hit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we don't know anything about that. No kids are --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So, Jim and Poppy, this lengthy video shows the confusion, the chaos, officers slow to respond, to make way. Pete Arredondo, the school district police chief, told the house committee in his interview that he initially treated this as a barricade situation. But that report also goes on to say that we now know that that was a terrible mistake.

HARLOW: And, Rosa, to you, you are getting to see an area near the school that most have not seen firsthand.

[10:05:03]

Can you tell us about that?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're actually on the scene here, Poppy, and the signs of the tragedy are still all here. The crime scene tape is still here. This is where the shooter crashed his vehicle. First of all, the markings of the vehicle are still on the concrete.

And if you walk with me, I'll show you around, because this is -- paints a vivid, clear picture of what you see in some of that surveillance video. The surveillance video angle that we've all seen where the shooter starts walking away from this culvert and to the school where he jumps this fence that you're taking a look at is just across the street from a funeral home.

That camera that you saw, that angle was from that funeral home. But it shows that the shooter walked from that culvert, jumped that fence, and you can still see that there are officers from Texas DPS here, crossed that fence, and then walked.

Now, he crashed at 11:28. He started walking, some of the first 911 calls started happening. According to this investigative report, there was a coach, a P.E. coach somewhere on these grounds that picked up her radio and notified that there was some intruder on campus, because she saw the gunman cross that fence and start walking over.

Now, according to this report, the gunman continues to walk, and at some point, starts firing his weapon. And according to the report, and to testimony by Colonel McCraw, he fired about 27 rounds before he got into the school.

And if you look closely at the school, you can see that the windows are boarded up. Now, the report doesn't say exactly what windows he hit, but it does say, and according to McCraw's testimony as well, that he was shooting at at least two of these classrooms.

And then you see here in the back, the door where he actually entered the school. Again, this is -- this is a street that is very busy in this community, Jim and Poppy. So, if you just take a look around, the reminders for this community of this tragedy are still here. There're still police officers here on the scene. Jim and Poppy? HARLOW: Rosa Flores, thank you very much for being there on the scene, Ed, for your reporting, as well.

Let's talk about what we have learned in this report. CNN Legal Analyst, former New York City Prosecutor Paul Callan, also Mike Matranga, former Secret Service agent and former head of security for the Texas City Independence School District, joins us.

Mike, looking at the 77 pages, they called it an interim report, so, clearly, there is going to be more to come, but it's a systemic failure. They use that word really at every level, it appears, by every -- most officers there. At the end, you did have officers that finally did breach the classroom. What did you learn from this report that is most important in your mind?

MIKE MATRANGA, FORMER HEAD OF SECURITY, TEXAS CITY INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT: I think that what we need to learn as a nation is that this particular incident is not just isolated to Uvalde ISD. I think that throughout the nation and most districts, you'll find that if they had a similar incident, the response would likely be the same. And I say that because if you historically look back at some of the other incidents, like Parkland, Santa Fe, now Uvalde, Sutherland Springs, the response is always the same.

And so, you know, I would question any lawmaker that is saying that we need to have more police presence. I mean, we absolutely do, but it's beyond just police presence. It's understanding of the plan, executing the plan, and then understanding what your duty as a law enforcement officer is.

You know, it's clear that Chief Arredondo knew that he was the incident commander, as was written in the emergency operations plan. And that's why I always say emergency operations plan is just a plan written and sitting on a shelf. Unless you execute it and trained (INAUDIBLE), it means nothing.

SCIUTTO: Paul, you and I have discussed many times legal vulnerability or lack thereof for police when they're involved in a shooting, right? Police involved shootings, not responding to a shooting, and by and large, as you explained many times, and people watching have seen, the law protects police, in general. Do you see any legal or criminal vulnerability here for officers involved for failure to act or failure to protect, or is that a long shot?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a long shot, believe it or not, despite the fact that there were approximately 400 law enforcement people there at the scene to theoretically protect these children and they failed abysmally.

[10:10:05]

But I don't see a suit against individual police officers. I think you will see suits possibly against the state of Texas, the county, maybe, and maybe the town itself. But they are very, very hard cases to win, Jim, because of this police immunity doctrine that exists nationwide. HARLOW: Can we ask you on the legal front though about Daniel Defense? That's the company where the AR-15-style rifle used in the shooting was made. Daniel Defense made the rifle. The CEO of that company will testify before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday. And gun control group every town law is now calling on the FTC to investigate the way that Daniel Defense marketed this weapon, which I think is really interesting.

And the lawsuit points to images like social media images posted by Daniel Defense, like this one, right, referencing Call of Duty, which is a video game franchise, appearing to appeal to young consumers, the lawsuit says, some of whom are perversely excited by and attracted to re-enacting the video game experience in real life.

If they are successful in even getting the FTC to look to pursue this case and to look at the marketing, how high is the bar there for successful prosecution of a manufacturer of a rifle?

CALLAN: It's a very, very high bar. And I was looking at these pictures this morning myself, and there was another one that caught my eye. And it was a picture of -- he looked to be a five or six-year-old kid, maybe seven, with an AR-15 in his arms, and the caption saying that this was a good way to prepare him.

Now, to be sending that kind of message out to children, the lawyers in this case are saying, what you're doing is you're contributing to the gun problem. You're encouraging the use of AR-15-like assault weapons by children, by allowing these kinds of commercials to be publicized. And they're following a trail that was created against the tobacco companies.

HARLOW: I was going to say, they won against big tobacco though.

CALLAN: Well, they did.

SCIUTTO: For many, many, many, many years.

CALLAN: It took about 25 years for that to happen, with all inventive new strategies.

Now, this is one strategy. Let's go after the FTC. Let's get into a regulatory agency and have them rule that this company is using illegal, provocative advertising. So, maybe the company can be held responsible for deaths that are approximately caused, very difficult to --

SCIUTTO: That happened to tobacco, right? It was the politics changed over time. And there was a massive public support for it.

CALLAN: There you have it, yes.

SCIUTTO: Mike, I do want to ask you, as you look at this, egregious decision-making at multiple levels, that's the finding of the report, overall lackadaisical approach. You've worked as a Secret Service agent, you've worked in security law enforcement for a number of years. How do you see an explanation for what happened there in the midst? It's a lot of people and a lot of them good people, I imagine, right, who wanted to do something. Was it group think? Was it a cascade of bad decisions?

MATRANGA: No. I think that the problem lies much deeper than what any of us can even imagine, having been a former Secret Service agent and executive director of a school district and now a school board member.

I think that it boils down to, we've got to get better at identifying who is qualified to handle these particular types of events, that I think there's a clear line and delineation of a police response versus a protective, proactive nature moving forward in schools.

And I've been saying that for years. The National Threat Assessment Centers has been saying that for years, is that the solution itself is not just law enforcement. It is not a response. I mean, in this particular incident, we had up to almost 400 officers.

Did they stop any of the killing? The answer is no. Do we need them with us? Absolutely, but we need a comprehensive plan. We need to vet those who are in charge, and quite frankly, I think that we need to examine whether school districts need to be hiring their own police chiefs and security. They need to have proper vetting of these individuals, because it's clear that the chief that they hired was not qualified.

SCIUTTO: You're right. They had the equipment. They had the weapons. They had ballistic shields. They had body armor. They even had a military-style vehicle outside of that school, but all of it waited for 77 minutes.

MATRANGA: A protective response and a police response are completely different, and that's what we have to get to is that proactive response.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Mike Matranga, Paul Callan, thanks to both of you.

HARLOW: Thank you both, gentlemen.

So, among the victims that day was nine-year-old Jacklyn -- Jackie, she went by, Cazares. She was one of the 19 children and 2 teachers killed at Robb Elementary. We will speak with a close friend of her family about how this new report and this body camera footage is affecting them.

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes, you can, you can barely look at those pictures.

Coming up next, Trump ally, longtime adviser Steve Bannon is in court right now for his contempt of Congress trial. The major test, how much leverage does Congress have to compel a witness to testify in its investigations?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: Jury selection has now begun in the contempt of Congress trial of Trump adviser Steve Bannon. Bannon indicted in November after defying a subpoena from the House select committee investigating the January 6th on the Capitol. Last week, Bannon made a last-minute attempt to delay the trial, offering to testify, something he delayed for months publicly before the committee. But the judge, a Trump appointee, rejected those motions.

[10:20:01]

If convicted, Steve Bannon faces a minimum sentence of 30 days, a maximum of one year in prison for each count.

Let's bring in Caroline Polisi, she's a federal and white collar criminal defense attorney. Caroline, good to have you back.

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL AND WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, given in part the judge's actions here, a Trump appointee who has dismissed a lot of the attempted defenses in advance as well as the history of prosecuting these kinds of things, do you see this case against Bannon as strong, as winnable, and do you think it will be a quick trial?

POLISI: Oh, it's absolutely strong, Jim. It's being called a slow guilty plea, which is another way of saying essentially the government really has this case in the bag.

As you noted, there was a lot of pretrial litigation here. And just one by one, all of Bannon's defenses have been knocked down, leaving David Schoen, who is Bannon's lawyer, you may remember him from the second impeachment, he represented President Trump, leaving his lawyer to essentially say, we have no defenses left, which then prompted the judge to say, I agree. And so it's kind of a mystery as to why there's even a trial taking place at this point since there really isn't much left to litigate.

SCIUTTO: These contempt of Congress charges and convictions are rare, but we have seen in recent years Trump and his allies repeatedly fight and defy congressional subpoenas. I mean, is this prosecution, in part, to defend, in effect, Congress' ability to subpoena and investigate?

POLISI: Absolutely, Jim, because, you know, this is important precedent setting. Now, this one case in and of itself is not going to compel Bannon to testify, but it will set the precedent that, look, they can hold this up as an example, if you just continue to flout us, we will prosecute you.

Now, I would also note that Merrick Garland's DOJ declined to prosecute several other referrals for contempt of congress because there were different circumstances there, but, absolutely, this will be used as a precedent.

SCIUTTO: Okay. I want to talk about another topic, and that is part of the broader January 6th investigation, and that is text messages from U.S. Secret Service phones sent on January 5th and 6th, relevant dates in the January 6 investigation, which went missing. The Secret Service says this was part of a regular purge as they handed out new devices here. Do you find that explanation convincing?

POLISI: I don't, Jim. At best, I think this is a colossal failure of leadership. If you take those statements at face value, it doesn't really add up. We are sort of unclear on the timeline here with respect to the I.G.'s questioning for the information versus the congressional subpoena, but it does raise a lot of questions because that is really valuable information for both the January 6th committee and the DOJ. We would get an insider's look on what was happening at the Capitol.

We know President Trump wanted to proceed from The Ellipse to the Capitol with the rioters. We know he was not allowed to, per the Secret Service, because some of those rioters were armed. And I would also particularly like to know, surrounding Mike Pence, how that decision was made, Mike Pence refused to get into the Secret Service's car to take him to a secure location, so that he could go, you know, count the electoral votes. And so that's valuable information that we need to know.

SCIUTTO: It raises questions about their traditional apolitical role here, where there are questions about that. Caroline Polisi, thanks so much.

POLISI: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, still ahead, we return to Uvalde and we speak with a close family friend still, of course, in deep grief. Look at this video. This is him dancing with nine-year-old Jacklyn Cazares. He is a man that she called her uncle. They were incredibly close.

Her father had already questioned the police response before this report was released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINTO, CAZARES, FATHER OF VICTIM JACKLYN CAZARES: My daughter was a fighter. She took a bullet to the heart and still fought. She fought hard to stay alive and these cowards couldn't go in?

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[10:25:00]

HARLOW: Today, multiple agencies are being called to do internal reviews after this report from Texas lawmakers and new body camera video revealed, huge systemic failures -- shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

SCIUTTO: Egregious decision-making is how the report describes it.

CNN's Josh Campbell has been following this for us. Josh, we were speaking -- there is difficulty legally prosecuting officers in the wake of something like this, but what about administrative penalties, in your experience? I mean, is there a path to that? Is there a precedent?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: There is. I mean, everything from dereliction of duty to negligence, but, as you mentioned, that is more administrative and we don't yet know what kind of accountability that there will be for the officers who were there on the scene, from the line level officers up to leadership that were decisions.

We do know that there have been some leaders that have been placed on administrative leave, for example, the city of Uvalde, the individual who was acting as the police chief on that day.

[10:30:00]

He has been placed on administrative leave.

We see on new body camera footage obtained by CNN that a 911 dispatcher is relaying to officers about a child who was calling 911.