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Former Trump Official to Testify; Opening Statements in Bannon Trial; Hice Fighting Subpoena; Elie Honig is Interviewed about Bannon, the January 6th Hearing and the Secret Service; Angry Parents Demand Action in Uvalde; Officials Identify Victims in Indiana; Heat Alerts for the U.S. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 19, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:33]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us.

First here on CNN, new details about what we will hear in this week's primetime January 6th hearing. We have learned that former Trump national security council official, Matthew Pottinger, will testify publicly on Thursday evening. So will former White House aide Sarah Matthews. They both resigned in the immediate aftermath of the January 6th attack.

SCIUTTO: Pottinger was a senior official in the Trump administration, deputy national security adviser, highly involved in international priorities from the Trump/Kim summits to China policy. Will be impossible to dismiss as a low-level staffer.

Also, opening statements are expected today in Steve Bannon's contempt of Congress trial. The Trump ally, former White House senior adviser, is charged with defying subpoenas from the January 6th committee for months.

We begin, though, with new information we're learning about the former Trump national security official who will testify in Thursday's January 6th primetime hearing.

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now.

High level, one of the most senior Trump administration officials to resign in the wake of January 6th. What more do we know about what's going to happen on Thursday?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We know that these two former officials, they will be testifying. Not only Matthew Pottinger, but also Sarah Matthews, the former deputy press secretary. Notably, both of them resigning very shortly after January 6th. You know, Matthew Pottinger was Trump's deputy national security adviser. And we were actually told at the time of his resignation that he stepped down in response to Trump's reaction to his supporters breaching and attacking the U.S. Capitol. He told people at the time that there was very little for him to consider, so he actually may have a lot to share about what he saw from inside the White House that prompted his resignation.

You can see there, Pottinger (ph) is a Marine veteran. He focused on Indo-Pacific and China policy during his time at the White House. He had that top position, which, Jim, as you said, will make it very difficult for Trump to discredit him. We've already seen Trump try to discredit some of his -- the people who have testified, including Cassidy Hutchinson. But Pottinger, a much higher level here.

And, Jim, we know that this particular hearing in primetime Thursday at 8:00 p.m., it will focus in on those 187 minutes after Trump spoke at The Ellipse and as his supporters were marching toward the Capitol and then attacking. Almost three hours when we didn't hear anything from Trump.

We've gotten a preview already from some of the committee members who say that Trump was gleefully watching the television, doing absolutely nothing. They say they'll be going minute by minute through what Trump was doing, although they say it was nothing. So this will be a big hearing on Thursday.

And this morning, in fact, we're waiting to hear more from the Secret Service. They were under subpoena. And they're expected to respond. We'll see if they're able to produce any of those text messages that are at issue from January 5th and 6th and how responsive they'll be to the committee, because the committee also wants answers about why, in this routine phone migration, these maybe crucial text messages, if there were any, were lost. Secret Service is saying we have been cooperative but the IG, when he met with the committee on Friday, saying a very different tune, saying he hasn't gotten the information he needs from Secret Service about what was happening behind the scenes on January 6th.

So, a lot to unfold in this -- today and then this week.

SCIUTTO: No question, January 6th, and to appear in person as opposed to via a videotaped deposition, et cetera.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: That will be quite remarkable for such a senior administration Trump official.

SCHNEIDER: For sure.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

HARLOW: All right, also, jury selection is expected to wrap up this morning in Steve Bannon's contempt of Congress trial.

Let's go straight to our political correspondent, Sara Murray. She's outside the district court in D.C. So, I mean, they just started seating this jury yesterday, so a

pretty, you know, rapid jury selection process. Then opening statements start right after that today?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, opening arguments should get started pretty soon. First, each side will have an option to strike some of the jurors from this jury pool. Then we expect them to get into opening arguments.

And, look, during the jury selection yesterday, Steve Bannon heard some pretty blunt feedback from some potential jurors who essentially said, we got a summons and it said we needed to be here. And here we are. Obviously, a number of them did not end up in the jury pool.

Steve also had some thoughts on his way out of court yesterday about how he would have been -- preferred to have been testifying on Capitol Hill. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: I really want to thank all the jurors for being truthful and blunt. I thought that was great.

[09:05:05]

I think we would have had - been more productive if we had been on Capitol Hill, in front of open mics, addressing the nation, with exactly all this nonsense, this show trial they've been putting up on Capitol Hill.

It's time they start having other witnesses and give other side - other testimony other than what they've been putting up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Obviously, still no public hearings scheduled for Steve Bannon. He will be in the courtroom all day. Like you said, we're going to get to opening arguments pretty soon this morning and we'll see if we get into some witnesses this afternoon.

SCIUTTO: So, of course, other significant investigation, that taking place in Fulton County, Georgia, over the former president's interference there. Congressman -- Republican Congressman Jody Hice of Georgia challenging a subpoena, as have others who have been called. What's the latest and where do these challenges stand?

MURRAY: Yes, that's right. You know, this is the criminal investigation into efforts Donald Trump and his allies made to overturn the Georgia election results in 2020. Congressman Jody Hice has tried to move that subpoena into federal court. So he's going to be - there's going to be a hearing in federal court next week where he -- they're going to hear the arguments over his motion to quash. I mean Hice is basically arguing that I'm a member of Congress, I'm covered under the Speech and Debate Clause. Anything that I may have done was part of my legislative activities and also that the district attorney there has to show that she can't get the information from anyone else if they really want to put Hice in front of the grand jury.

So, you know, he's effectively stalled his testimony for now. We will see if he gets out of it altogether.

But, you know, as you pointed out, we've seen this from a number of other witnesses in the case, including Senator Lindsey Graham, who has a hearing coming up this week.

HARLOW: Sara Murray, thanks for both those headlines.

Joining us now to talk about all of it, former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

Elie, good morning.

Let's start with Bannon since Sara was just outside the courtroom. They're going to finish up jury selection. They're going to have opening arguments. We all know how Bannon feels.

Usually, you wouldn't see someone in a trial like this testify, take the stand. But things could be very different with Steve Bannon. How likely do you think it is that he testifies and, you know, what would that mean?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Poppy, you are correct. Ordinarily defendants do not take the stand in their own defense because it's just seen as too risky.

However, in this stay (ph), I almost think Steve Bannon has to take the stand in his own defense because the prosecution's case is so straightforward. In a sentence, you say, the committee subpoenaed him and he ignored it. That's it.

Now, Steve Bannon can argue they haven't carried their burden, but that's the entire elements of the crime right there. So, if he's got some defense, I can't think of a way he can put it on other than by Bannon himself taking the stand.

Of course, there's also the Bannon x factor. He's an unpredictable guy. He likes the spotlight. So I think there's a much better chance, than in a normal case, that we see the defendant take the stand here.

SCIUTTO: All right, January 6th hearings, the next one, primetime on Thursday, with a truly significant witness here, the former deputy national security adviser to Trump, close to him on a lot of his foreign policy priorities.

You've been involved in many criminal prosecutions before. Tell us the significance from a legal standpoint of having someone so senior testify, it seems, as a witness for the prosecution as it were.

HONIG: Yes, I think what's most crucial about both live witnesses that we'll see on Thursday, Matthew Pottinger and Sarah Matthews, is, they're eyewitnesses. They were there. They saw things, they heard things about what has happening in the White House, the West Wing, and, in some instances, perhaps the Oval Office with respect to Pottinger. So that is what you build your case on. And the fact that they're both senior, especially Pottinger, I think will really help in an inevitable effort that we will see by Donald Trump to try to distance himself. Hardly knew them. They were minor players. You know, he's called people coffee boys in the past. He's not going to be able to do that with his deputy national security adviser, Pottinger. Probably not with Sarah Matthews either, who was apparently high ranking in the press office.

So, these could be really potent witnesses and they'll take us inside those 187 minutes, which still remain largely unexplored.

HARLOW: Yes. I mean you talk about Pottinger. And Jim's so right to mention just how high ranking an official he was. And someone who served in -- as an intelligence official in Afghanistan, under then Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, someone who was in the room for some key meetings about U.S. relations with China, and key meetings that Trump was having. I mean he had so much exposure.

This hearing, this final hearing, is about those 187 minutes. What was Trump doing and not doing during the insurrection. Can you talk about what he could testify to or gaps that he may fill for this committee as it relates to dereliction of duty, which is not a crime in and of itself, Elie, but could go to the issue, for example, of intent or aiding and abetting.

HONIG: Yes, Poppy. So, of those 187 minutes, really at this point we only have a couple brief snapshots of what Donald Trump was doing or saying. We've seen his tweets. I think one of the most important pieces of evidence is the tweet Donald Trump send at 2:24, which is about an hour into this 187-minute period where he verbally attacked Mike Pence, and that caused the rioters at the Capitol to immediately start chanting "hang Mike Pence."

[09:10:11]

We know that Donald Trump ended this at 4:27, when he tweeted. But really the rest of that sort of remains a blank slate.

We got a couple of interesting views from Cassidy Hutchinson, who was in and around the White House in the West Wing, but I think that testimony that we saw from Cassidy Hutchinson, you can expect that much and more from the two witnesses that we're going to see on Thursday. Who did what, who said what, most importantly, how did Donald Trump react to what he was seeing?

SCIUTTO: On these Secret Service texts that the inspector general, by the way, says the Secret Service has not been cooperative here. The Secret Service says, listen, this was part of a regular device migration. And, by the way, our agents, by policy, don't text that much, or at all about work here.

Again, drawing on your experience in investigations, when potentially critical evidence like this goes missing, particularly on the dates January 5th, January 6th, does that smell right to you? Do you believe the explanation the Secret Service is giving?

HONIG: It's totally inexplicable.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: It's totally inexplicable to me, Jim, on a few levels. First of all, I've dealt with many, many federal agents, including lots of great Secret Service agents, they all text. They all text to prosecutors about their case. They all text to each other. We all text.

Second of all, how on earth do you not back up, save those texts? The fact that they were doing a migration, upgrading the phones, that in no way is an explanation for why the texts are missing. You don't just take the old phones and toss them into a dumpster and, well, whatever's on them is gone.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: You have to preserve those both because you might be subpoenaed some day, but also because Secret Service makes criminal cases. You need those texts. That's evidence you could have an affirmative obligation as a prosecutor, as Secret Service, to turn those texts over to a defendant. And if you did this in a criminal case and you went in front of a judge and said, yes, judge, this is a case I made with Secret Service. There are some texts they had, but they upgraded their phones, so we got rid of those texts. The judge would dismiss that case in all likelihood. So, this is a serious breach and they have some serious questions to answer.

SCIUTTO: Yes, as with so many things here. That's what's legal and illegal, but also what's right, right?

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Which, was this the right call given the significance of the timing of this.

Elie Honig, thanks so much.

HONIG: Thank you both.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next this hour, angry parents, scared students confront the school board in Uvalde, Texas, demanding the firing of the school police chief, also assurances the children and teachers will be safe when they go back to class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you guys going to do to make sure I don't have to watch my friends die? What are you going to do to make sure I don't have to wait 77 minutes bleeding out on my classroom floor, just like my little sister did?

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Incredibly compelling.

Also ahead, new details about the hero who stopped a mass shooter inside of a mall near Indianapolis, and the disturbing evidence the gunman left behind.

Plus, oppressive heat here in the United States with more than 100 million people today under heat alerts. Temperatures also breaking records across Europe. We're live in London coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:10]

SCIUTTO: Angry, outrage, heartbroken, parents at a school board meeting in Uvalde, Texas, last night pushed school district leaders understandably for action and accountability.

HARLOW: Several parents want school district police Chief Pete Arredondo to be fired immediately, as students told officials they were too scared to go back to school, which starts in 25 days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEHLE QUINTANILLA -TAYLOR, STUDENT This was the last dress that my -- all my friends saw me on. Most of those kids were my friends. And that's not good. And I don't want to go to your guys' school if you don't have protection.

TINA QUINTANILLA-TAYLOR, MOM: And she's encouraging for her friends not to go to school too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: To hear that from a child especially.

Rosa Flores joins us now from San Antonio.

What's the response from the school board?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim and Poppy, the school board did a lot of listening. And what they did say was not enough for these parents. And since (ph) there were promises of, you know, in essence fortifying all of the failures that happened on May 24th, what they could do a little better.

For example, add more surveillance cameras, better fencing, fix the locks, fix the doors. But that's not enough for these parents. And promises are hollow. They want action. They want to see specific action and accountability. And part of that accountability and transparency is the firing of the school police chief, Pete Arredondo.

Now, these families have seen the Texas house investigative report, which is very clear, that Arredondo wrote the active shooter policy, wrote himself in as the incident commander and then didn't take command. And we all know what happened on that ill-fated day of May 24th, 19 students and two teachers were shot and killed. They were massacred.

And so these families are asking for Pete Arredondo to get fired and for the superintendent to get fired.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VINCENT SALAZAR, GRANDFATHER OF UVALDE VICTIM LAYLA SALAZAR: Your system failed these families. Your closed sessions that you talk about didn't save our children. What we need to do now is put families in your sessions so we know what's going on, what's going and the way you're spending your money for the security of our children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he's not fired by noon tomorrow, then I want your resignation, and every single one of you board members, because you all do not give a damn about our children or us. Stand with us or against us because we ain't going nowhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, Jim and Poppy, one of these parents asked them a very basic question.

[09:20:02]

He said, you know, when you go to sleep at night, do you lock the doors of your home to make sure that you and your family are safe? They said, well, that's what should have happened on May 24th, and it didn't. An now we're living the consequences. So something must change. There must be accountability.

Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: There must.

Rosa Flores, thank you very much for pushing for answers for, you know, more than - more than a month now. Thanks very much.

This morning, we have learned the name of the three people killed by that gunman at the Indiana mall, as well as the identity of the 22- year-old good Samaritan who stopped the attack.

SCIUTTO: CNN correspondent Omar Jimenez following all of this from Greenwood, Indiana.

Omar, what do we know about those crucial minutes and seconds when all this played out?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Poppy.

Well, for starters, these were people who were just trying to enjoy a normal night out. What should have been a normal night out at this mall on Sunday night. And we've learned, of course, the names of those killed, Victor Gomez, Rosa Rivera de Pineda, and Pedro Pineda were among the three killed by the gunman. Two others were injured, including a 12-year-old girl, but they're expected to be OK.

This gunman came out of the bathroom, firing, after being in there for more than an hour. And while he did a lot of damage, it was within two minutes of those first shots that he got return gunfire by who we now know is 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken, who's being hailed as a hero here, who police say had no form of law enforcement or military background that they can see but engaged the shooter from quite a distance, used the police chief's words, using just a pistol, and then eventually killed this gunman.

Now, of course, though, comes the why of it all. Now, police found this gunman's cell phone in the toilet of that bathroom he initially emerged from. And his laptop was found at his apartment in an oven that was turned on to a high temperature, along with a can of butane.

Take a listen to the mayor of Greenwood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MARK MYERS (R), GREENWOOD, INDIANA: Unfortunately, he tried to destroy his cell phone, he tried to destroy his laptop. Those have been turned over to the FBI for forensic analysis. And until they can dry out his cell phone and they can get to the hard drive on his laptop, we really don't know that much.

His social media page was deactivated a couple of months ago. And talking to family members, they were totally shocked. They didn't see this coming. So, right now, we're just still trying to find out the -- what his motive might have been.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Now, we know how this ended back on Sunday evening. But it's also worth noting, it's pretty rare for an active shooter to be stopped by a bystander with a gun. Of the 434 active shooter attacks that were examined by the advanced law enforcement rapid response training out of Texas State, just 22 of them ended with a bystander shooting the active shooter. And of those 22, ten were security or off duty officers. That wasn't the case here and it's part of why Elisjsha Dicken is being hailed as a hero, not just by the police chief, the mayor but even the governor as well.

SCIUTTO: It's a good point. And so often these things play out in seconds, in minutes, right, before even law enforcement can get there.

Omar Jimenez, thanks so much.

Still ahead, Dr. Anthony Fauci says the U.S. has not done enough yet to get a handle on monkeypox as one health leader predicts the window to control it probably has closed. What you need to know about the virus, how communicable it is, who's most at risk, coming up.

HARLOW: We are also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Stock futures a bit higher this morning after a fresh batch of earnings data. Investors really looking at signs of how decades high inflation is impacting companies, jobs and consumer spending. Also new this morning, the Commerce Department reporting that

construction on new homes is down for a second month in a row.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:07]

SCIUTTO: New this morning, CNN is learning that President Biden could declare a national climate emergency as soon as this week. When asked by CNN, White House officials say all options remain on the table, that no decision has yet been made on the matter.

HARLOW: The potential announcement comes amid intensifying heat here in the United States. You're likely feeling it. More than 100 million Americans are under heat alerts this morning.

Our meteorologist Chad Myers has more on this.

It's - I mean yesterday you were showing us all across Europe. That continues. And now look at the U.S.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, and it's been this way for a very long time. The people that are so hot today have been hot for a week or two. The excessive heat warnings here across parts of the Plains. It's going to feel like 115 again today. And not even cooling down below 80 at night. So, you really can't even open up the house and give the air conditioner a break.

Heat advisories for tomorrow for the Northeast.

[09:30:00]

It's going to fell like 100 in New York City, even close to Boston. We're not going to move this heat anytime soon. This above normal temperature map right here stays in the same place through the weekend.