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January 6 Committee Set For Prime-Time Hearing; President Biden Tests Positive For COVID-19. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:46]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. And thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We begin this hour with breaking news from the White House, where President Joe Biden is an isolation after he tested positive for COVID. President Biden's symptoms are said to be mild. He tweeted a short time ago that he is doing great.

He is taking an antiviral medication to reduce the risk of severe illness. We also can tell you a news conference is scheduled in an hour from now.

And CNN's Jeremy Diamond is joining us at the White House. We also have Dr. Sanjay Gupta standing by to break it down for us.

Jeremy, first, what more do you know about the president's condition?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, President Biden tested positive for coronavirus this morning.

We're told that the president went to bed last night largely feeling fine. But he woke up this morning having not slept very well, tested, according to the White House's routine screening procedures. That's according to the White House doctor, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, who says the president is now experiencing mild symptoms, which include a runny nose, fatigue and an occasional dry cough.

The president's physician recommended that he being a course of Paxlovid, that antiviral that is considered the gold standard of care for coronavirus, particularly early on in the onset of the disease. And we're told by the White House that the president has indeed begun that course of Paxlovid.

Now, I also spoke separately with Dr. Ashish Jha, the White House's coronavirus coordinator, who told me that the president as of this morning did not have a fever.

The president taking to Twitter just a little bit ago to say that he is doing great. And you can also see on your screen there a picture of the president working this morning, apparently from the residence. This is the Treaty Room inside the White House residence, where he says that he spoke with several of those lawmakers, Pennsylvania lawmakers, who he was supposed to meet with today.

And you see in there wearing a blazer, the president saying that he's doing great and -- quote -- "keeping busy." Of course, the president, as you mentioned, Ana, is double boosted, with -- receiving his last booster on March 30.

CABRERA: And we do know he's been traveling quite a bit lately abroad and domestically. He was in Massachusetts just yesterday. He's had close contacts, meetings with a lot of different people. We have often seen him without a mask.

How has the White House been approaching more broadly this stage of the pandemic and trying to manage the president's exposure?

DIAMOND: Look, the White House has had pretty rigorous protocols, particularly as it relates to the president and his exposure to coronavirus. Aides wear masks when they're meeting with him indoors.

They are tested every single day before they are about to meet with him. But, at the same time, we have seen the president increasingly getting out there and engaging with the public, engaging with lawmakers, shaking hands, participating in photo lines, a recognition that the president could not forever stay in some kind of a bubble.

And we have seen his exposure obviously increase. Now, last week, when the president was in Israel in Saudi Arabia, we heard officials saying that he was going to try and perhaps limit some of his contact, some fist bumps, instead of handshakes taking place there.

But, by and large, we have seen the president increasingly out there. And, look, the White House knew that it was possible that the president could test positive, but they're hopeful, of course, that he will continue to have a mild case, given he's double-boosted and now on this course of Paxlovid.

CABRERA: And now that he has tested positive, what are the specific protocols at the White House right now to try to lower the risk of spread?

DIAMOND: Well, we know that the White House Medical Unit is conducting contact tracing.

People who were with the president yesterday, including several lawmakers, like Senator Elizabeth Warren, are getting tested now to see if they have contracted the disease as a result. We also know that White House residence staff, that staffing is being kept to a minimum to limit potential exposure.

Obviously, you saw the president working there this morning. Somebody had to take a picture of him. But, presumably, everyone is wearing N95s and protective material when they are anywhere close to the president, but staffing certainly being kept at a minimum to try and reduce the further risk of any additional spread.

CABRERA: OK, Jeremy Diamond at the White House for us, thank you. Again, we're expecting that press conference with Ashish Jha, the White House COVID response coordinator, coming up at the top of the hour.

For now, let's bring in our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, the president, very mild symptoms, we're told, double vaxxed. He's boosted. But we know his age does put him at higher risk, right?

[13:05:07]

What are your biggest concerns right now?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think age is the biggest concern overall, because we have known since the earliest days of the pandemic that people who were older were going to be most at risk.

And even if you look among the vaccinated, the vaccines are really, really good at preventing people from getting sick or dying, but, still, the people who are at highest risk within the vaccinated population are still the oldest there as well.

But what I think is interesting, and when we talk about the protection he has, to quantify that in some way, like, how much more is he protected, given that he's vaccinated and boosted vs. if he wasn't? And there was recent papers that came out now that we can look at this, and basically says, if you look at now, in May of 2022, and compare that basically to a year ago, you're 29 times less likely for people who have received the vaccines to not die vs. people who are unvaccinated.

So that just gives you an idea of a little bit how protected he is. Not saying it's absolutely for sure, which is why therapeutics like Paxlovid sort of come in to still try and add in more defenses against severe illness.

CABRERA: I do want to ask you about Paxlovid specifically in a second, but coming back to he's 79 years old. We're told he works out five or six days a week.

Based on what we know of his overall health, any thoughts on how that could impact his COVID battle?

GUPTA: Well, again, when you talk about COVID, it's interesting. Obviously, it's just two-and-a-half years sort of worth of data.

But age was one of the biggest risk factors. So, again, I think it's his age more than anything else that is the biggest concern. He turns 80, I believe, in November. The other thing is that with the -- he does have a history of high cholesterol. He's taking a medication for that, a statin medication.

When you do Paxlovid, you do have to stop that medication during that time. Not usually a big deal, but that gives you an idea of just sort of the things they have to think about. So those are the biggest things. His age, this history of taking the statin medication and how it's going to potentially interact, I think, is where a lot of attention is focused, obviously monitoring him closely, checking his blood oxygen saturations, things like that on a regular basis to make sure he's not developing symptoms before he might even be aware of them.

CABRERA: Paxlovid is something that's available to not just the president, but to the general population as well to treat COVID. Explain how effective it is. What more do we know about it?

GUPTA: It's interesting, Ana.

With the original trials on Paxlovid, a lot of people don't remember this, but it was actually primarily done in the unvaccinated people, people who had not received a vaccine. What they found, those initial trials, that it was really effective, close to 90 percent effective at keeping people from developing severe illness.

They -- subsequently now, they have a lot of people who have been vaccinated taking it as well. And they find that it's really quite effective at that particular issue of, again, keeping people from needing hospitalization, developing severe illness.

It does seem to have a certain percentage of people, though, who develop a rebound, meaning that they feel better, they're now testing negative, they test negative a couple of days. Now, all of a sudden, they test positive again, and they're starting to get sick again. That's the rebound.

And it's still not clear exactly how common it is. But some studies say maybe 6 percent. Dr. Anthony Fauci, you may remember, had that happen to him. So he tested negative for a few days, then tested positive again. And he actually said he felt worse the second time around. So that's another thing they have to sort of keep an eye on with the president.

CABRERA: I mean, it's safe to assume that this is the very beginning of his illness, because yesterday is when he started to feel those symptoms. He had tested negative on Tuesday, we're told, and he started with a little bit of a dry cough last night.

Now we're told he has occasional dry coughs and fatigue, a runny nose, no fever, at least not this morning. What do you expect tomorrow, maybe the next day for the president? How might this play out?

GUPTA: I think what I would expect, just given everything that we have seen in these similar situations, that, probably, he would sort of be the same for a few days, sort of this level of symptoms, no worse, but probably just sort of plateau here for a few days.

Then, eventually -- and, still, if he's getting tested on a daily basis, still testing positive, but at some point, I think his symptoms will start to diminish. And then, within a day or two after that, he's likely to test negative, which is what the White House says they are looking to as the metric for when they can sort of take him out of isolation, where he can see people again out of isolation.

But again, this Paxlovid rebound thing is really important, because he's going to need to be tested very regularly after he comes off the Paxlovid to make sure, within a few days after that, he doesn't have a rebound. Chances are, he won't, just statistically, but that is a concern.

CABRERA: As far as we know, this is the first time he's ever gotten COVID.

Given the current COVID surge and his job as president, that puts him in situations where he might be exposed and is that risk. Do you think, in some ways, this was just unavoidable, he was going to catch it eventually?

GUPTA: I know a lot of people have sort of conceded this, that, look, it's just everyone's going to get it eventually.

[13:10:05]

I'm not sure I see it that way. I mean, flu is a very transmissible thing. Not everyone gets this. Coronavirus. I think that, in many ways, we have sort of stopped doing just about anything to prevent people from getting infected. And I'm not talking about the president specifically, but, in general, as society.

There's a lot of viruses out there. There's a lot of people still getting infected. We don't know how many because most at-home tests are not reported. So it's not clear. But some say maybe seven times as many as are officially reported, maybe a million cases a day, a lot of people still getting sick enough to require hospitalization, a lot of people dying.

So there were times during this pandemic, Ana, where we were in a better situation than we were now, and we were doing more to mitigate. It's kind of like, at this point, it's almost less a scientific question, more a question of, what are we willing to tolerate?

I will say that BA.5, this variant, this -- that people are talking about that's become quite, quite prevalent, it's different than the previous variants. It has three really different mutations, which means that it's more contagious, but also that your previous immunity, either from infection or from the vaccine, may not work as well.

There have been some case reports for someone got infected with BA.4 and then not, even a month later, got infected with BA.5. So, that's how quickly the immunity from, in that case, infection actually wears off.

That's something they have to pay attention to, which is why people are recommended getting boosters to get your antibody levels high enough so that you can actually take care of all these different variants.

CABRERA: Yes, perhaps it may not prevent you from getting infected, but should still be highly effective about keeping you out of the hospital or getting severe illness, as I understand it.

GUPTA: That's right.

CABRERA: And we don't know exactly which variant the president may have.

But we do know BA.5 is now making up about 80 percent of infections, of new infections here in the U.S.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always, thank you for offering your expertise and insight here.

We're just hours away now from the next congressional hearing into the January 6 attack. This one is in prime time. And this one zeros in on what then-President Donald Trump did while the Capitol was under assault and what he didn't do.

And, later, finding 10 Republican votes to protect same-sex and interracial marriage, Senate Democrats say they're inching closer to getting that crucial number.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:42]

CABRERA: Tonight in prime time, the eighth January 6 hearing, what the panel is calling the last of this series.

The focus? What Donald Trump was doing for 187 minutes as his supporters attacked the U.S. Capitol. The committee promises to show Trump's dereliction of duty, what he did and did not do, plus never- before-seen outtakes of a message Trump record of the day after the riot. We will see what more he wanted to say and what he was not willing to say.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is on Capitol Hill for us.

Ryan, set the stage for tonight's hearing. What more are you learning?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, I think we have all known for quite some time that the committee believed that Donald Trump's inaction on January 6 was a serious problem and a big part of what they wanted to uncover.

And, tonight, they're going to lay out the facts and the evidence they have to support that claim. And we have already seen a preview of just how they plan to do that.

Listen and look at what Adam Kinzinger shared on his Twitter feed earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: To the best of my recollection, he was always in the Dining Room.

QUESTION: What did they say, Mr. Meadows or the president, at all during that brief encounter when you were in the Dining Room? What do you recall?

GEN. KEITH KELLOGG (RET.), FORMER ACTING U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think they were -- everybody was watching the TV.

MOLLY MICHAEL, FORMER EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: It's my understanding he was watching television.

QUESTION: While you were in the Dining Room in these discussions, was the violence at the Capitol visible on the screen on the televisions?

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So, if he was watching television, that means that he wasn't consulting with members at the Pentagon or the Department of Defense to try and find a way to get additional security support up to the Capitol.

That also means that he wasn't talking to his fellow lawmakers on Capitol Hill to try and help them through what was a very important crisis at the time. It also means, and perhaps most importantly, that he wasn't working on a way to get a message to his supporters to leave the Capitol at that period of time.

And so that's all what the committee hopes to show here tonight. They keep using the phrase dereliction of duty over and over again. That's not a term that they are using lightly. And it's important to keep in mind the two people leading this hearing tonight, Adam Kinzinger and Congresswoman Elaine Luria, they're both military veterans.

So, when you talk about duty, this is something that is very important to the core of who they are -- Ana.

CABRERA: Ryan Nobles, thank you very much from Capitol Hill.

Let's take a minute-by-minute look now back at the insurrection.

Here's CNN's Pamela Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One-and-a-half years later, the minute-by-minute horrors of the January 6 insurrection are becoming even clearer.

As the House Select Committee continues its public hearings, it is uncovering new details of that fateful day, including a heated phone call that morning with then-President Trump pressuring Vice President Pence to prevent the certification of the election.

NICHOLAS LUNA, FORMER ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: I remember hearing the word wimp. Either he called him a wimp. I don't remember if he said, you are a wimp, you'll be a wimp.

IVANKA TRUMP, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: It was a different tone than I had heard him take with the vice president before.

QUESTION: Do you remember what she said her father called him?

JULIE RADFORD, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO IVANKA TRUMP: The P-word.

BROWN: Earlier that morning, the White House had learned that people arriving at Trump's rally were armed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had Glock-style pistols in their waistbands.

BROWN: Chief of Staff Mark Meadows' aide Cassidy Hutchinson testified White House Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato briefed the president and Meadows separately about the weapons.

[13:20:08]

The rally at the Ellipse goes on as planned, with many of Trump's most loyal associates igniting the crowd.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Let's have trial by combat.

BROWN: Trump watches from backstage and demands metal detectors be removed to allow more of his supporters to attend.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO MARK MEADOWS: I overheard the president say something to the effect of: "I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take the effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here.."

BROWN: At noon, Trump takes the stage.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to walk down to the Capitol. You'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength.

PROTESTERS: USA! USA!

BROWN: While he speaks, pro-Trump rioters, including members of the far-right group the Proud Boys, overrun the first set of barriers outside the Capitol.

TRUMP: This is incredible. Thank you very much.

BROWN: At 1:10, Trump's speech concludes, and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy warns Hutchinson that Trump should not come to the Capitol.

HUTCHINSON: "He just said it on stage, Cassidy. Figure it out. Don't come up here."

BROWN: Nine minutes later, Trump arrives back at the White House reportedly enraged the Secret Service refused to take him to the Capitol.

HUTCHINSON: The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said: "Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing."

Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And Mr -- when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.

BROWN: By 2:00, the Capitol goes into lockdown. The Senate abruptly adjourns soon after.

RIOTERS: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

BROWN: Back at the White House, White House counsel Pat Cipollone tells Meadows Trump should intervene, or people will die.

HUTCHINSON: Mark had responded something to the effect of: "You heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong."

"Mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood is going to be on your effing hands."

BROWN: Minutes later, Trump tweets, slamming Pence for not assisting him in his scheme to overturn the election.

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The situation was already bad, and so it felt like he's pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need an area for these House members. They're all walking over now through the tunnels.

BROWN: At 2:30, U.S. Capitol Police start evacuating lawmakers, and the Secret Service removes Pence from the Senate floor.

And shortly after, Trump sends another tweet for everyone to remain peaceful, but does not tell the rioters to leave the Capitol.

Seconds later, the first Capitol windows are smashed by Dominic Pezzola, an alleged Proud Boy who has pleaded not guilty to seditious conspiracy. Rioters flood into the Capitol and are scaling the scaffolding outside.

Then, another far-right group, the Oath Keepers, are seen weeding through the crowd in a military-style formation and entering the Capitol building.

Inside the Capitol, the violence is escalating. Pro-Trump rioter Ashli Babbitt is fatally shot by an officer after she attempts to climb through a window of the barricaded door. About a minute later, rioters breach the Senate floor and break into Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office.

For more than an hour, many close allies and associates try to persuade Trump to intervene by sending text messages to Meadows. White House aides even draft a statement that was never sent.

At 4:15, then-President-elect Biden speaks.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not dissent. It's disorder. It's chaos. It borders on sedition. And it must end now.

BROWN: Minutes later, Trump tweeted out a video message for his supporters to go home and repeating the lie that the election was stolen.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's get back to work.

BROWN: Around 8:00 p.m., the Capitol Police announce the Capitol is secure, and the Senate and House reconvene to finish certifying the election.

Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Joining us now, our legal analysts Elie Honig and Norm Eisen.

Guys, Pam just laid out right there what we all saw go down, right? And she reminded us what we have learned so far through these hearings, but we still don't know a lot about what was happening behind closed doors.

Elie, how important is it for the committee to fill in those gaps?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's crucial. I think it's the most important single piece of evidence that we're going to have in this entire proceeding.

Now, the key phrase that we have heard and we will continue to hear all day and all night is dereliction of duty. And, to me, that suggests a person doing nothing. And it may be we know that Donald Trump didn't do anything, because, if he had done something, we would have seen it.

But one of the big questions I have going in is, is there going to be some affirmative proof that Donald Trump took a step designed to encourage these people?

[13:25:01]

And what I'm looking at is that 2:24 tweet that Pam just referenced where he -- Donald Trump tweets negatively about Mike Pence. And my question is, was there something leading up to that? Did someone say something to him? Did he say, hey, watch -- watch what I'm about to do?

We don't know. But I want to see if it was anything more than just doing nothing.

CABRERA: Do you still see that tweet as most significant too?

NORMAN EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, because the idea of dereliction of duty, Ana, and that Trump failed to act doesn't capture the whole story.

He affirmatively acted. We just saw, Cassidy Hutchinson says, around 2:00, she learned that Trump actually agreed with the rioters, that Trump had violent intent. And then he knows these terrible things are happening. His vice president is in danger, the Congress, his own government.

And then he tweets an attack on Pence,which we also know was read through a bullhorn to the rioters, further inflaming them. I will take friendly exception to cousin Elie on one point. It is an important piece of evidence what happened in the 187 minutes, but the most important, if you go back to the beginning of these hearings, the committee has very steadily established two criminal cases, I think, one for obstruction of Congress, one for defrauding the United States, criminal cases that were found likely by a federal judge.

This is just the last missing piece of that, more evidence of Trump's intent. But the cases have, I think, already been well-founded.

HONIG: Let me build on that. I don't think we disagree really much.

The significance -- we're going to hear a lot of testimony about, how was Donald Trump reacting to this? Pleased, displeased, gleeful, right, upset?

And I think what we have seen so far makes clear that Donald Trump was quite pleased, I think one person said delighted, by what he saw. Now, why is that relevant? If you're trying to build the kind of case Norm talked about, conspiracy to steal the election or conspiracy to obstruct Congress, that is crucial evidence of Donald Trump's intent, because, as a prosecutor, you say to maybe a jury someday, you say, how did Donald Trump react?

He was delighted. And that shows that what they were doing is exactly what he wanted and hoped and intended.

CABRERA: So, Ryan shared with us that clip, that preview clip that Rep. Adam Kinzinger had tweeted out, in which we heard over and over again these witnesses say that Trump was in the Dining Room just watching TV.

My question to you is, is doing nothing a crime? Is there criminality in inaction in that case?

EISEN: In some states, dereliction of duty or failure to perform your duty is a state crime,if you're an official and you fail to perform. It's not a federal crime, but it doesn't have to be.

As Elie notes, this is evidence, this is more proof of crimes that have already been established, the conspiracy.Trump knew he didn't win this election. He knew he didn't have any legal right. He still attacked the election. He joined team crazy after the Electoral College met in that White House meeting.

They have proven all of that. What we need now is the intent. And we're also going to see these outtakes that are going to teach us more about what was going on in Trump's mind.

HONIG: Yes, I think those outtakes are going to be fascinating.

CABRERA: Actually, hold your thought, because I want to ask you about the outtakes.

HONIG: Please.

CABRERA: But let's hear from Adam Schiff, who's on the committee, who kind of gave us a scene-setter for these outtakes last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): There are people urging him to say things to try to get the rioters, the attackers to go home. There are things that they can't be prevailed upon to do and say, not for hours and hours, and then, ultimately, when he does give a statement,still things he wouldn't say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So he seems to highlight what he wouldn't say that we will now learn about. Does that -- is that significant?

HONIG: Yes, it is.

I think it's going to go more to the issue of intent. He was so reluctant to condemn the people who had gone into the Capitol. I think that's what Adam Schiff is suggesting. And so that's going to tell us. Again, he was pleased with what they did.

I mean, imagine this. This is January 7, right? These outtakes are from the video the next day. And what's the person's reaction? It's so telling. Most people, I think, who watched what happened would be disgusted and horrified. And if Donald Trump is unable to come out and say that, and it keeps trying to sort of edge things towards the rioters' favor, again, that goes to intent.

He was pleased because it's what he wanted, is what you would argue.

CABRERA: I do want to also ask about one of the witnesses we're going to hear from tomorrow night who has been somewhat a mystery, I think, for most of us. We haven't heard from him really yet, maybe a quick clip or something.

But it was Matthew Pottinger. who we know was a National Security Council adviser. He resigned immediately following the riot. In fact, he pointed to the Pence tweet from Trump during the riot as sort of the pivotal moment, in his mind, when he said, I need to resign.

But I wonder, why him? Why is he saved for this hearing? Because my understanding is, he wasn't in direct contact necessarily with Trump on that day.

EISEN: Having worked in the White House, Ana, it's a very tiny environment.

[13:30:00]