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WH Search Underway Now For Biden's Close Contacts; Ex-Trump National Security Official & A Former WH Aide Testifying Tonight; Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) Discusses About The Upcoming January 6 Committee Hearing About Trump Actions; Jury In Steve Bannon's Trial Will Not Begin Deliberations Before Tonight's Jan. 6 Committee Hearing; Triple- Digit Heat will Continue To Bake More Than 2 Dozen States. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's really hard to say, because there are a couple of things happening right here. So I think it's really reassuring that President Biden tested negative on Tuesday and so it's unlikely that on Tuesday he had a high enough viral load to test positive and therefore also to be able to impact other people. So we're really looking at Wednesday yesterday as that time period.

Now, he was in close contact with a lot of people, even though it was outside, which is relatively protective. But we also know that BA.5, the dominant variant now is extremely contagious. And so I think that looking at all those people that he was exposed to yesterday would be important.

Now, hopefully, all those individuals are up to date with their vaccines, which means that they are very well-protected against severe illness if they were to contract COVID. And there are certain precautions they should be following. For example, they shouldn't be wearing a mask when in public places, they should also be getting tested now and they're getting tested again, in five days time.

We have the protocols at this point. We know how to manage this. And actually what I heard in this briefing is that the White House is doing everything right. They're following all the precautions by the CDC, and they're being very importantly, very transparent about how they're conducting their operations.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: So the President was not tested on Wednesday. This is the cadence that they've chosen. He was tested on Tuesday.

Kaitlan, I just learned from you that the White House does not tell the press corps when the President is testing.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They tell us when he says, they don't tell us how often he's tested.

BLACKWELL: How often he's tested, okay.

COLLINS: So we will get updates when he goes on a foreign trip, as he did last week to the Middle East for this. They told us he tested negative departing for that. But when we've tried to pin them down on, well, how often, is it every day, is it every other day, that's where they've kind of left some gray area.

And I think it's a question for this week, because, look, he took a test on Tuesday, it was negative. He did not take a test, it appears, yesterday before we went to this event in Somerset, Massachusetts and then he did take a test today, which obviously was the one that was positive and why the Press Secretary got that note.

A few things stood out to me from that briefing, though, which is where Karine Jean-Pierre said, "We knew this was going to happen." They basically had been bracing for this. There had been some close contacts before - close - actual close contacts, but also close situation, close calls where he was at an event where the Irish ambassador or the Irish taoiseach was, he tested positive. There was one where the Secretary of State Blinken tested positive. Those matters as well.

And, of course, now they say they don't know exactly where he got it or which variant he has, but they did say they would expedite that processing to figure out which variant the President has two things that also stood out was he's not going to be taking his normal medications. One of those is a blood thinning medication that we know he takes that they told us about when he got his physical last year.

Dr. Jha said that's pretty normal. He'll stop that while he's taking Paxlovid and he got the first dose of that today. And then he's also just isolating in the residence of the White House. The First Lady is going to continue on to Delaware this weekend. He is going to stay at the White House as all of this goes on and they said that he'll basically be there for at least the next five days or until he gets a negative test working on Zoom and whatnot.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Sanjay, we thought it was also interesting when we heard the Press Secretary there say, as Kaitlan just said, we knew this was going to happen. Is that how all Americans should think of this? I mean, that it is a question of when not if, even if we're doubly vaccinated and boosted that this variant is so transmissible and it's out there so much that it will be we knew this was going to happen.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a nuanced question and I think there are people who are experts in this area who have different points of view on this. That it's preordained, everyone's going to get it. Let me put it to you like this.

My parents are in their late 70s early 80s. They wear - will wear masks if they go into crowded indoor settings. They asked me about it and I told them that I thought that was a good idea. They're vaccinated and boosted and everything, but they are still the most vulnerable of the vaccinated population, so they don't want this virus. They haven't had it. They don't want it.

I - are they silly for even trying to protect themselves? I don't think so, I think, especially if you're vulnerable of age or pre- existing condition. It makes a lot of sense to not just say, hey, look, everyone's going to get it. I'm not even going to bother trying. I don't I don't know if that makes sense.

CAMEROTA: Really helpful. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Wen, Kaitlan Collins, thank you all for helping us parse everything that we just heard about the President's condition. He's having mild symptoms at the moment. Thank you, guys.

BLACKWELL: In just hours, the January 6 Committee is expected to swear in two former Trump staffers who have not yet publicly shared what they witnessed. One lawmaker just released a never before seen clip that details what the former president was doing or rather what he was not doing as violent protesters stormed the Capitol.

CAMEROTA: A member of that House Committee is going to join us live in just a moment.

But first, let's go to CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider. So Jessica, what more are you expecting to hear tonight?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The big thing here is that the Committee is really set to drill down on what they're calling Trump's dereliction of duty.

[15:05:01]

The fact that for more than three hours, Trump did nothing, he did not act to call off the rioters from attacking the Capitol. And instead as we heard committee member Adam Kinzinger put it earlier this week, he gleefully watched TV. And in fact, Kinzinger actually tweeted out a preview video this morning and it shows various officials at the White House that day, describing how all Trump did was watch TV as the violence unfolded. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the President in that private dining room the whole time that the attack on the Capitol was going on or did he ever go to, again, (inaudible) to the Oval Office, to the White House Situation Room anywhere else?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So that's my recollection, he was always in the dining room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did they say, Mr. Meadows or the president, at all during that brief encounter that you were at the dining room? What do you recall?

GEN. KEITH KELLOGG, FORMER VP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: I think they were - everyone is watching the TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know whether he was watching TV in the dining room when you talked to him on January 6th?

MOLLY MICHAEL, FORMER EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: It's my understanding he was watching television.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were in the dining room, in these discussions, was the violence at the Capitol visible on the screen? On the television?

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: And this is all part of the case that the Committee is trying to prove. They're trying to prove that Trump was intent on letting the violence continue and when the Committee likely refers to this to the Justice Department, which they've hinted at, that is what prosecutors would need if they were to ever charge Trump. Proof that he intentionally did this, that his mens rea was there, that he conspired to obstruct Congress.

So we do expect to see more video clips like this and even more from White House Counsel Pat Cipollone. Of course, he sat for eight hours with the Committee for his deposition almost two weeks ago. So far the Committee has only showed about 14 clips, so there's likely a lot more to come from him.

And then there are two crucial live witnesses, guys, Matthew Pottinger and Sarah Matthews. Pottinger was deputy national security adviser for three years at the White House, Matthews deputy press secretary. They both resigned from the White House in reaction to Trump's inaction on January 6th. So they'll have that insight about what was happening inside the White House on January 6th and what exactly Trump was or was not doing, guys?

CAMEROTA: Okay. Jessica Schneider, thank you for the preview.

BLACKWELL: All right. I'm joined now by a member of the January 6 Select Committee, Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren. Thank you for being with us.

Let's start here, the - what we're expecting tonight is a description of what happened during those 187 minutes what the president did not do to stop the attack on the Capitol. Does the Committee have evidence of actions that the President took that potentially fueled what was happening at the Capitol?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Well, we're going to discuss the entire matter, what he didn't do and what he did do. We've touched upon in prior hearings the tweet about Mike Pence. We'll further explore that and what was happening at that time. We think it will be enlightening and we hope that people will watch the hearing because there is new information.

BLACKWELL: We expect to see the outtakes of the recording that remarks the president made on the day after the insurrection January 7th. Will we see tonight any outtakes from the recording on January 6th when the President told supporters to go home?

LOFGREN: Well, I think it's a mistake to focus on the outtakes. We will have some of them, but that's interesting. But it's not the meat of what we'll be presenting today. Obviously, we have so much material, so much evidence, we can't fit it all in into the timeframe of a hearing. So it's likely that some of the material that we just can't do in the

scope of the hearing. We'll be releasing between hearings so the public can look at more information and that's not just for this hearing, but some of the prior hearings where, for time constraints, we had to leave some of the evidence behind.

BLACKWELL: So if the focus on the outtakes is misdirected, it's not the meatiest part of what you'll present tonight ...

LOFGREN: Well, it's interesting, but it's not the meat.

BLACKWELL: ... what - it's interesting.

LOFGREN: It's not the (inaudible) ...

BLACKWELL: What's most compelling tonight?

LOFGREN: Well, I think if you piece it together, it's hard to reach a conclusion other than this was something that the former president intended. He summoned the mob. He knew they were armed. He directed them to the Capitol pretty clearly in an effort to overturn the election to keep the count from being completed. And that wasn't just an accident, that was his intention.

[15:10:03]

BLACKWELL: Of course we'll hear more from then-White House Counsel Pat Cipollone tonight. How much was he able to share with the Committee about the President's State of Mind on January 6th?

LOFGREN: Well, he was very cautious not to testify about what he considered to be attorney-client privilege material. But I think the information that he was able to convey will be enlightening. I found it so. But, of course, he's not the only person who we will hear from. It's the accumulation of information one Trump official after another, pointing out the same thing that I think people will find compelling, if they are able to tune in tonight and watch.

BLACKWELL: Well, you said that what you learned from Pat Cipollone was enlightening. I want to drill down on one specific element that we heard from Cassidy Hutchinson during her testimony. This is, of course, a description of how adamant the President was to go to the Capitol after his speech. Here's what she said she heard from a Cipollone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER DEPUTY WH CHIEF OF STAFF: Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of: "Please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Did he confirm that and did he tell you why he was so adamant? LOFGREN: We have evidence from other parties about the President's

intention to go to the Capitol and the steps that were taken to try and make that happen. By the way, there was information from a prior hearing that we will be releasing, that this wasn't a last minute item, frankly, Rudy Giuliani told Ms. Hutchinson on January 2nd, that the plan was to march to the Capitol, for the President to march to the Capitol.

So this was not a last minute endeavor and it's not just Pat Cipollone's testimony, it's the accumulation of information that makes that very clear.

BLACKWELL: We have, of course, the reporting that Ivanka Trump was trying to urge her father to say something, tweet something, record a video to send his supporters home, to leave the Capitol. Will we hear more from her tonight?

LOFGREN: You will hear a variety of Trump world witnesses, loyal Trump employees and others who urged him to call it off. And then his response, which was certainly not to do what he was asked to do by those supporters of his.

BLACKWELL: Is Ivanka Trump one of them?

LOFGREN: Well, we have some testimony from her. But as you know, she has been featured - her testimony has been featured in prior hearings. So we're trying not to be too redundant, because there are time constraints in a hearing and if we rerun the things that we've shown before, we'll run out of time, so a lot of this material will be new.

BLACKWELL: There is so much we've learned about the then-White House chief of staff mark Meadows communications with members of the Trump family, Republican members of Congress, how much will we learn tonight about the President's communications. There, of course, is that seven hour gap in the official White House call log, what will we learn new about his communications?

LOFGREN: Well, we - as you know, we have not managed to get Mark Meadows in to talk to the Committee. We would still like to hear from him. There's additional information that we are seeking. And as will be noted during this hearing, we're not done. The information continues to come in. The evidence is continuing to flow in and we're continuing to analyze this. So this is for good or ill not the end of the story.

BLACKWELL: You say you've got more coming in, there are no additional hearings scheduled, are there more depositions scheduled?

LOFGREN: Oh, yes. Yes, we have depositions nearly every day. And, again, I'm not - the chair and vice chair make the announcements on hearings, but I think it's pretty obvious we're intending to provide at least our interim report in the fall and I'm confident that that - there will be a public unveiling of that report.

BLACKWELL: We saw the first clip of testimony from Molly Michael who was the executive assistant there sitting outside the Oval for President Trump.

[15:15:00]

How much did you learn from her testimony? Having that position, of course, in that role, she could shed light on some very important elements from that day.

LOFGREN: Yes, she could. She could and I would urge you to watch the hearing tonight, because she was able to confirm calls that were made and actions taken or not taken as she - as well as others, so it's very enlightening.

BLACKWELL: So the plan was to - after these hearings, released a final report from the Committee that was scheduled for September. We heard this week from Chairman Thompson that because so much is coming in, the September report will be an interim report and then a final report later. Do you believe that it is necessary to release something before the midterm election?

LOFGREN: Well, our schedule is unrelated to the midterm elections. We expect to have an interim report which will not be the final but close to it. Under the terms of the resolution that created the Committee when the final report is released, the Committee is dissolved. And so, so long as the information continues to come in, we want to avoid that result. We don't want to prematurely cut off witnesses who want to be heard.

BLACKWELL: We've learned during two hearings that the former president, those around the former president have reached out to witnesses and potential witnesses. Have there been additional instances of the former president or those in his orbit trying to contact witnesses or people communicating with your committee?

LOFGREN: Let me just say that there is a concern that the Committee has about pressure from Trump forces relative to witnesses and I'm afraid I can't get into details more than just that.

BLACKWELL: All right. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you so much for your time.

LOFGREN: Thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: And tune in for CNN special coverage tonight at 7 pm Eastern as the January 6 Committee turns to President Trump's conduct as the Capitol was being overrun by his supporters.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, deliberations could begin soon in the Steve Bannon criminal contempt trial. A live update from the courthouse next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:50]

BLACKWELL: New today, the jury in Steve Bannon's contempt of Congress trial have been sent home and deliberations will not happen until after tonight's House committee hearing on the January 6th insurrection.

CAMEROTA: Closing arguments are set for tomorrow and CNN's Sara Murray joins us now. So Sarah, we understand that Steve Bannon's lawyer said today that he would not present a defense, why not?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They have decided not to present a defense in this case. And of course, that means that Steve Bannon is not going to take the stand in his own defense. I mean, one thing we should remember is that it's the government that has the burden of proof to prove in this trial that Steve Bannon is guilty.

But ultimately, what the attorney has said when the jury was not present in that room and, of course, what they also said when they left the courthouse was that they didn't feel like they could argue the points that they wanted to make. They said Steve Bannon did want to testify. He did want to take the stand.

But if he had done so, he would have said he relied on the advice of his attorney and that his attorney had told him that because of some kind of executive privilege exerted by Trump, obviously, this has been contested that Bannon did not have to show up, did not have to respond to that subpoena. That's not an argument the judge is allowing in this courtroom and so the defense decided to rest.

There's a lot of legal wrangling that went on today. Unfortunately, there was not a lot of action from the jury, so when we come back tomorrow, we will get the closing arguments from both sides and then the jury will begin deliberating.

BLACKWELL: Yes. It's remarkable considering what Steve Bannon said outside of that courthouse. He said he would go medieval, and savage and this would be the misdemeanor from hell and this is now no defense. If he's convicted, though, of course, we're waiting for the jury to start deliberations, there's a minimum 30 days that he would have to serve because of that conviction. Is that something that would happen right away?

MURRAY: I mean, I think that is the open question, because it is pretty clear from how this has played out that what Steve Bannon's attorneys want to do is they want to take this to the appeals court and they would want to try to get any conviction if he is convicted overturned on appeal. So the open question is, let's say he's sentenced to 30 days in court, is the judge going to stay that or could Steve Bannon potentially be facing jail time while he's still waiting for his appeal and we just don't know the answer to that at this point.

BLACKWELL: All right. Sara Murray, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, 275 million Americans trying their best to stay cool as the temperatures in much of the country reach 90 degrees or above. We have more on how long it will last ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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CAMEROTA: There is no immediate end in sight to the nation's a scorching heat wave. Coast to coast, millions of people are bracing for triple digit temperatures. More than 85 percent of the U.S. population will see highs above 90 degrees through next week.

BLACKWELL: Yesterday. Records were set in at least five states people are going to cooling centers, splash pads, at public parks just pulling the hose out in the backyard. In Texas power generators are running nonstop to keep up with record breaking demand. Ranchers there are even selling off livestock because of the dismal drought conditions. CNN's National Correspondent Ed Lavandera is in Dallas. How are people coping there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor as we talk about the extreme heat across the country, and be sure you admire the two smartest kids in the city of Dallas right behind me playing in the water fountain there, so.

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