Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Discussion on Last of January 6th Hearings; Aspen Security Forum in Colorado; Terrible Q2 for Twitter Due to Elon Musk's Court Date on Ethicacy of the Company. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 22, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00] POPPY HARLOW, CO-HOST OF CNN NEWSROOM: How will history look at them in this work?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well Poppy, this has been a slamming indictment against Donald Trump as being an anti-American demigod, bully, somebody with a dictatorial vent. We forget that this isn't just about Democrats versus Republicans, most of the people who spoke in front of the committee were Republicans, were people that were supportive of Donald Trump. Liz Cheney's going to go down in history as one of the heroes of our time. Just like Margaret Chase Smith when she went after Joe McCarthy. Can you remember, doesn't matter what happens in her Wyoming primary, she's going to be a gold star figure in American history for putting democracy above, you know, grotesque self-interest like Donald Trump and some of his associates showed.

So it was refreshing to get all these voices of democracy come forward, tell the truth and that's -- and the commitment with the papers that these have generated. A trove of documents is going to be the first draft of history when all these books are written of the ugliness of January 6th.

HARLOW: And Margaret, I thought it was so important that Congressman Kinzinger in his closing remarks last night used the word American experiment, because that's -- that's what it is. It's not guaranteed. Right? It's an experiment and it's about all that has to be done to uphold this democracy. What does this mean for the future of your party? What does this moment and what happens from here on mean for the Republican party going forward?

MARGARET HOOVER, HOST OF PBS, "FIRING LINE" AND CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well Poppy I'm going to answer the question about the party, but first I want to answer the question about the country, because you said what does this committee's work mean and what will it mean in history? And the truth is, we don't know the end of this story, this is an ongoing as Adam Kinzinger said, experiment and Donald Trump wants to run for office again. He will likely run for president again. So the work of this committee is not finished. It is contributing to their Constitutional duty in the face of a former president who absolutely abrogated or abrogated his trust with the American people and didn't do his Constitutional duty.

But we, the select committee, the public, the process of upholding this experiment in democracy right now, and accountability to people who undermine the Constitution and trash the Constitution. In this case, the president of the United States, Donald Trump, former president, is critical. What it means for the Republican party, the party that is frankly splintered and divided with a strong factions still supporting a man who undermines the Constitution, this puts -- this is -- this puts our country at grave risk for the future. So this fight is not over. We continue to need to uphold and hold -- and uphold the Constitution and hold those responsible for undermining it accountable and I think the select committee is doing its part. Liz Cheney, very concisely summarized the case against Donald Trump last night.

HARLOW: Can we just listen to also a sound that was so striking and important I think from Congresswoman Liz Cheney? This is at the end of the hearing. Here's what she said about the bravery of women throughout. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE: We've seen bravery and honor in these hearings, and Ms. Matthews and Mr. Pottinger both of you will be remembered for that. As will Cassidy Hutchinson, she sat here, alone, took the oath and testified before millions of Americans. She knew all along that she would be attacked by President Trump and by the 50, 60 and 70 year old men who hide themselves behind executive privilege. But like our witnesses today, she has courage and she did it anyway. Cassidy, Sara and our other witnesses including Officer Caroline Edwards, Shaye Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman are an inspiration to American women and to American girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Very quickly Margaret and then Douglas, your thoughts on hearing that?

HOOVER: I'm -- I'm going to tell you, what Liz Cheney is referencing is that sexism is alive and well in this country, but it is alive and well in the GOP and it was in the Trump White House. And for those women, Ms. Cassidy and Ms. Hutchinson, to stand up showed great courage, an extra measure of courage against the backdrop of that sexism and it shows that the men who aren't standing up and testifying and hiding behind executive privilege are showing an extra measure of cowardess and it was worth pointing out.

HARLOW: The older men, notably, Douglas Brinkley in particular, who had a lot more power and many of these younger women who have their whole careers at risk ahead of them. And they had the courage Douglas.

BRINKLEY: That's right, and the older men seem to be part of the Palm Beach clique of Mar-La-Go. They don't want --

[10:35:08] BRINKLEY: -- to alienate Donald Trump. They were cowardly and afraid and we still haven't heard from so many important White House voices that hopefully will get a chance to. But I think Mike Pence has come out well, and Liz Cheney's come out well and in Liz Cheney, all women should be proud because of what she did was a magnificent job of prosecuting this case. In and as Margaret so ably said, to be continued. This is going on in the fall. This story isn't over yet. We're in mid-stream.

HARLOW: We'll see you in September. They made very clear. Margaret Hoover, thank you, Douglas Brinkley and we'll be right back.

HOOVER: Thanks Poppy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:10]

[10:40:20] JIM SCIUTTO, CO-HOST OF CNN NEWSROOM: Welcome back. I'm at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado, gathering of senior officials from around the world. I got the rare opportunity yesterday to sit down with Richard Moore, he is the chief of the UK's Foreign Intelligence Service. First time he's done a conversation like this and he made news on Russia's war on Ukraine, what he thinks Putin has gotten wrong and why he believes Ukraine may have a moment to strike back very soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD MOORE, UK CHIEF OF FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: He had three things he wanted. One was to remove Zelensky. Second was to capture Kyiv and second was to sew disunity within the NATO alliance. And if you turn to those three briefly, President Zelensky is still very much there and has proved to be a fantastically successful leader of his people in their resistance to invasion. So I think that's -- that's a fail. And if you -- they completely failed to capture Kyiv and received a very, very bloody nose doing it. They continue to suffer badly on -- on the battlefield, 15,000 Russians have lost their lives.

That's probably a conservative estimate and that's (inaudible) on NATO. NATO has proved extraordinarily united in the face of this. So on all of those, I think they count as epic fails. So I think he has suffered a strategic failure in -- in Ukraine. It's obviously not over. He's obviously made and the Russian forces have made some incremental progress over the recent weeks and months, but you have -- it's tiny amounts. We're talking about a small number of miles of advance and when they take a town, there's nothing left of it Jim. I mean, it is obliterated. So -- and I think they're about to run out of steam. I think our assessment is the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to supply manpower, material over the next few weeks. They will have to pause in some way and that will give the Ukrainians opportunities to strike back.

SCIUTTO: U.S.-UK Intel got a lot right about this invasion, even the face of -- of a lot of doubts from Europeans and even Ukrainians, at least in their public statements of the days prior to the invasion. How do you rate the performance of Russian intelligence in -- in the lead-up to this war and since then?

MOORE: If I reflect on our Russian counterparts, I mean -- like the Russian military, that I don't think they're having a great war. They clearly completely misunderstood Ukrainian nationalism. They completely underestimated the degree of resistance that the Russian military would face, and it was a, sort of, I think as far as I can tell, this sort of toxic combination of them not really getting their intelligence right. But also intelligence services reflect the -- the societies they serve, now I am answerable to democratically elected ministers. I'm answerable to parliamentarians. I'm answerable to judges over certain aspects of my work. It's a rather different system in Russia. And one thing that it doesn't pay is to speak truth to power. So I suspect some of the, kind of, reality about what they were about to encounter was just not being briefed up to Putin.

SCIUTTO: Are Russia and China strategic partners now? For years, the way it was described was that it -- it was more of a, not quite even a marriage, but a relationship of convenience where -- where things overlap, they would work together. But do you see the two joining forces more, you know, more deeply but also for the longer term?

MOORE: All right. Well let -- first thing (I would say) Putin and Xi, when they met they came up with this agreement, didn't they, with the term no limits. That no limits is a ringing phrase. Isn't it? That's a ringing phrase and I think it pays, and when President Xi says these things, he means them and we ought to listen hard. So I -- I think that relationship is -- is very clear. The Chinese are helping the Russians over Ukraine by buying their oil. They're right on the front (inaudible) beating the Russian drum and is selling the Russian narrative around Ukraine, and doing it without any since of irony.

This is a country that spends a lot of time banging on about sovereignty and territorial integrity. Here is the most egregious example of someone tearing it up in Europe and Chinese keep on selling their -- selling their snake oil around the world. So, yes, it feels pretty tight, but it's not an equal partnership and Ukraine has made it less equal and Moscow is very much the junior partner and the Chinese are very much in the driving seat.

SCIUTTO: Are you reappraising China as -- as -- as a --

[10:45:10] SCIUTTO: -- not just as a competitor but an adversary, a greater threat?

MOORE: MI6 has never had any illusions whatsoever about Communist China, so I think there has been a -- a growing recognition right across government and our societies of some of the threats that the Chinese pose to our societies.

SCIUTTO: Is war inevitable?

MOORE: I don't think it's inevitable at all and it's still very much, I think, the desire of all of us to see the differences between the people on either side of the Taiwan Strait settled in through peaceful means. That's what we would all aspire to do, but coming back to those lessons from Ukraine and lessons from other aspects of western behavior. It is really important that President Xi, as he calculates, what he may or may not do on Taiwan. I think looks at what can go wrong with a misjudged invasion and we're seeing that played out and I think it's important that we remind him of those risks.

SCIUTTO: You speak about this theme often. The ambiguity inherent in relationships, that -- that there are folks, you -- you -- you got to deal with folks in the middle. I wonder if you could give us an example of that of where that's working and do you consider resurrecting potentially the Iran Nuclear Deal as an example of that, given the partners involved. Right? Because it's not just Iran, but -- but Russia and China were both parties to that deal prior.

MOORE: I mean, on the -- on the Iran Deal, I continue to believe that for all of the limitations of -- of the Nuclear Deal of the JCPOA. It's probably -- if we can get a deal, it's probably the best means still available to constrain the Iranian Nuclear program. I'm not convinced we're going to get there and it could be a bit academic. I mean, that discussion, the (inaudible) supreme leader of Iran wants to cut a deal.

SCIUTTO: You sound skeptical though that there's a path forward for the Iran Nuclear Deal.

MOORE: I'm -- I'm skeptical that the supreme leader will go for the deal. I think the deal is absolutely on the table and the European powers (inaudible) and the administration here are very -- very clear on that. And I don't think that the Chinese and Russians on this issue would block it, but I don't think the Iranians want it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: You know, Poppy, listening -- listening to him there. He did not pull punches on really the three biggest threats we talk about. First of all on Ukraine, saying that Russia's weak there in -- in effect but -- but calling out China for being a genuine threat and -- and at the end there. You know, kind of, torpedoing what's a priority of the Biden Administration, you know, resurrecting this Iran Nuclear Deal.

HARLOW: He was so candid Jim and just so people have the context and the (background). He has never sat down for an interview with anyone like this outside of the UK. I'm glad it was with you. I'm glad he was so candid, but given how right British intelligence has been on the war in Ukraine, I wonder how big of a deal it is to hear him say Russia's running out of steam and that's our assessment.

SCUITTO: We're -- we're going to see it play out. Right? I'm going to speak to a U.S. official Victoria Newland, later this morning. I'm going to ask her if -- if the U.S. feels the same.

HARLOW: All right. Great interview Jim. Thanks very much. Also new when we get back this morning, Twitter reports it's earnings amid this battle in court with Elon Musk and how that's impacting their bottom line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:09] [10:53:13] HARLOW: Twitter's fight to force Elon Musk to buy the company may not head to court until October but the company's ongoing battle with him is certainly impacting business right now. Twitter just announced 2nd Quarter earnings.

SCIUTTO: CNN Business Correspondent Rahel Solomon, digging into the numbers for us. Rahel, sales down from a year ago.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes they are Jim and Poppy, it was an ugly quarter for the social media company. Revenues fell, earnings fell and yet take a look at the stock and how Wall Street is reacting. It's a pretty muted reaction. Shares are just fractionally lower, two-tenths of a percent and I think part of this is because Twitter actually saw it's daily active user base grow. It grew 16 percent year over year. That was better than expected, but it's not all smooth sailing from here because of course, there are still some dark clouds hanging over the company like Elon Musk and how that trial shapes up and shakes out. But also, just sort of questions about it's advertising business in this environment where companies are starting to question how much they're going to continue to spend as we all, sort of, see how this environment shakes out in terms of inflation and rising rates. And so, still a lot of challenges for the company. Elon Musk, of course, being a big part of that.

HARLOW: Of course, user base grew, Elon Musk is going to say are they real users or -- or -- are they bots. I mean, so the judge ruled quickly Rahel in Twitter's favor in this preliminary hearing. Now the -- the big show if you will, in court is October. What happens?

SOLOMON: Yes, I mean, the question now is that in this process of taking it to trial and discovery. How much more do we learn about Twitter's active user base? Right? How many bots are they really and so there's going to be a lot more disclosure into the inner workings of the company and that's a really big risk for Twitter.

HARLOW: We'll be watching. You know who always makes out on these deals in the end is the lawyers, on both sides. A lot of legal fees in discover like that. Rahel, thanks. Have a great weekend and thanks to everyone for joining us. What a big consequential week it has been, we've been --

[10:55:08] HARLOW: -- we're glad you've joined us. We'll see you on Monday. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto we do hope you have a good weekend. At this hour, Kate Bolduan starts right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:08]