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January 6 Committee Hearing Fallout; President Biden Continues Battling COVID Symptoms. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 22, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS.

I hope you have a safe and a peaceful weekend. We will see you Monday.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and happy Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

This hour, we have an update on President Biden's bout with COVID. His symptoms have changed. And he's now using an inhaler. But the White House doctor is signaling he is improving. We have an expert standing by.

Plus, the golden age of spam calls may finally be ending. We will tell you how the federal government is cracking down on those companies behind millions of annoying robocalls.

But we began with that blockbuster January 6 hearing that showed Donald Trump's aides, his generals, his attorneys, his kids all describing a president who not only failed to act as the Capitol riot unfolded, but who refused to act, hunkered in the dining room, where he -- quote -- "added fuel to the fire."

The evidence seemed crafted to spur the Justice Department to launch a criminal case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Nobody wants an organized crime prosecution where the DOJ lawyers or prosecutors go after foot soldiers and lieutenants, but don't go after the people who are actually ordering the crimes and putting all of the criminal events into motion.

So I agree with that. I think that, as a matter of justice, it's just wrong to punish the people who were seduced by a criminal mastermind, but not the criminal mastermind himself or herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The hearing also provided this jaw-dropping account of just how much danger Vice President Pence's Secret Service detail thought they were in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The members of the V.P. detail at this time were starting to fear for their own lives.

There were a lot of -- there was a lot of yelling, a lot of very personal calls over the radio, so it was disturbing. I don't like talking about it, but there were calls to say goodbye to family members, so on and so forth. It was getting -- for whatever the reason was on the ground, the V.P. detail thought that this was about to get very ugly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That audio raises fresh concerns about those missing Secret Service text messages from that day. We now know two key Trump officials at the heart of that scandal have lawyered up.

Let's break this all down now with former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe. His book is called "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump." Also with us, our legal experts Carrie Cordero and Renato Mariotti, and Trump biographer Michael D'Antonio. He is the co-author of "High Crimes: The Corruption, Impunity, and Impeachment of Donald Trump."

Thank you all for being here. Lots to discuss.

Renato, you're a former federal prosecutor. So let me ask you this. Last night's hearing, it really felt like the committee was saying, OK, DOJ, it's your move. Where did it land in the legal sphere? Did the committee provide new evidence pointing to new criminal wrongdoing?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think they did provide new evidence.

For example, you had the testimony that Kayleigh McEnany said that Donald Trump didn't want the word peaceful in his tweet. We heard evidence, testimony from a police officer that was part of the president's detail indicating that the president strongly wanted to go to the Capitol and be part of that riot, insurrection at the Capitol, which supports, I think, the testimony, prior testimony, of Cassidy Hutchinson.

And you also had, for example, the security official whose identity was protected indicating that the president wanted to go to the Capitol, and that, in that professionals view, they needed to stop that because it would have transformed a protest into an insurrection or a coup.

So I thought that was all really important. But I really thought that the hearing also highlighted the need for the Justice Department to further investigate. Every time that we heard someone say the word privilege or you saw, for example, questions that were not answered by Pat Cipollone -- of course, we didn't get any testimony from Mark Meadows.

To me, it highlighted that a grand jury -- grand jury subpoenas and testimony in a criminal matter would really be needed to get to the bottom of this. And I think that was underscored last night.

CABRERA: Andrew, one of the most memorable moments to me was when that anonymous White House security official describes what he heard on law enforcement radios, including the Secret Service agents who were part of the vice president detail relaying goodbyes to their families in case they didn't come home.

[13:05:05]

What goes through your mind learning this? And what does it say about the situation as it was unfolding?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure.

So, Ana, I thought that was remarkable and shocking, as well as just the wrong radio traffic that you heard between the agencies that are trying to get Pence out of the building.

And I can tell you, as someone who's had the unique experience of both serving on protection details overseas protecting FBI directors and then also being the protectee -- I had a security detail of FBI agents when I was the acting director -- I can tell you that the work that those people do is incredibly hard. They are amazingly dedicated, and they're incredibly important to the protectee and their family.

So the idea that the president of the United States himself intentionally, thoughtfully and willfully put those people and the protectee in the sort of danger we saw in those videos is -- it's unbelievable. It's earth-shaking for someone in law enforcement.

We tend to think in law enforcement about threats and allies, right, good guys and bad guys. And you never -- you never assume that you're going to be thinking that way about the president and the administration. I mean, it's -- to think that the threat that is putting you in your protecting in danger is coming from the White House is head-spinning and really troubling.

CABRERA: And, Carrie, obviously, in a court of law, you need all the evidence to backup anybody's testimony. It can't just be one word against the other. Sometimes, that's all you have.

But in light of that testimony, it makes it even stranger that all those Secret Service text messages are missing from January 5 and 6, except one, apparently. The Secret Service says texts may have been lost in the phone migration, but they had been told to back up their data.

So are we to believe almost every single agent deleted the texts, not one saved them?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so what the -- what the Secret Service is saying happened with the text messages is that they had a previously scheduled technology transition of their phones, and then they did not correctly implement that transition, and so the messages were not retained.

I haven't seen, in terms of the reporting and the information even from the inspector general or from the Secret Service, the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, yet evidence that indicates that there was any kind of conspiracy within the Secret Service to delete messages. Instead, what it looks like is a very, extremely poorly executed technology issue within the agency, which is not OK.

But that is different than some type of affirmative action that they took to hide their messages from the committee. That being said, there clearly is a really important story to be told by the Secret Service to the January 6 Committee that is relevant to so much that happened both in the security measures that were and were not taken leading up to January 6, including the actions that took place on the day of January 6, and then, of course, what happened to all of those communications?

And can the Secret Service still recover some of those messages that appear to have been deleted at this point?

CABRERA: Right.

CORDERO: So there's a lot more information.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: And I guess that's what I was getting at with this idea that, even if they didn't physically delete them and try to cover it up or something, that idea that they would have all just let those messages get erased, that not a single person backed up potential messages that ended up getting erased seems a little bit, I guess, strange. It just seems unusual.

Michael, as the Secret Service and law enforcement were fearing for their lives -- forgive me, Carrie. You broke up for just a minute. So I think there was like a weird delay there. We just stepped on each other.

But I do want to ask Michael and get him into this conversation here, because, as the Secret Service, as law enforcement were apparently fearing for their lives, we have Trump in the Dining Room watching this attack on TV refusing to call off the rioters. He told the White House photographer, apparently, do not take pictures.

For someone so focused on image, on looking powerful and in command, does it seem strange that he wouldn't have pictures taken then?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think it's strange in the context that we are examining.

So he's obviously doing something that he knows is wrong. And he's so image-conscious that he will never have an image put out there that indicates he's anything but correct, doing the right thing at all times.

A few things that have been said in this block indicates to me that Donald Trump, A, is a criminal mastermind, as Representative Raskin indicated, but he's also willing to go to extremes.

[13:10:07]

And this is something he explained to me and said, you have to go past what anybody else would do. And I think, barring the photographer from taking a picture at that moment is him being extreme.

And the other important things are that he probably was thrilled by all of this. He loves fighting. He told me he loves fighting, but he doesn't want to fight on his own behalf. I don't think he's ever been in a fight himself physically. He loves, though, when people fight for him.

And so here are thousands of people physically committed to fighting for him. And I think this was the second greatest day of his life, the first being his election.

CABRERA: Renato, we heard various people in the White House through the testimony say there was a concerted effort to get Trump to put out a more forceful statement, to condemn and to call off the rioters.

I want to play this exchange with then-White House counsel Pat Cipollone. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): And who on the staff did not want people to leave the Capitol?

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: On the staff?

CHENEY: In the White House, how about?

CIPOLLONE: I can't think of anybody on that day who didn't want people to get out of the Capitol once the -- you know, particularly once the violence started, no. I mean...

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): What about the president?

CHENEY: Yeah.

CIPOLLONE: She said, the staff. So I answered.

CHENEY: No, I said in the White House.

CIPOLLONE: Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I thought you said, "Who else on the staff?"

I -- I'm -- I can't reveal communications. But, obviously, I think, you know...

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: The implication there is pretty obvious.

Renato, if Trump wanted the rioters to leave, I guess the Cipollone could have just said that, right?

MARIOTTI: Well, he was trying to draw a line regarding executive privilege.

And the line he drew, it was clear from the testimony, was, he would tell you his view, he would tell you -- he would tell you the view of the staff, but not what the president said. But it was obvious from the way he answered the question that he believed that Donald Trump did not want those rioters, insurrectionists removed from the Capitol.

And that's got profound implications, because, for example, one potential of charge that Trump could face is -- is that he incited an insurrection or incited a riot. And part of that would be that he intended the consequence of imminent lawless action.

And, of course, there was, after he spoke, imminent, lawless action, and once people marched to the Capitol and violently attacked people there. And I think the implication you could draw from some of the testimony last night is that that, in fact, is what Donald Trump wanted to have happen.

CABRERA: After three hours, Trump did record that video telling the rioters to go home.

But, Andrew, that was after the National Guard had been sent in and lawmakers were safe. We know he called Rudy Giuliani twice during the attack. He didn't call any federal agencies, mind you, but he called his lawyer, his personal lawyer, twice.

And then, once the Capitol was being secured and the Senate was reconvening, we learned Giuliani called senators, asking them to keep delaying that electoral count. How do actions from Trump and his allies, especially Trump, after the riot impact a potential prosecution?

MCCABE: Well, I think you have to -- you have to start with his clear choice to not take any action during the riot, right? Like, that is the keystone that ties this entire thing together.

If you look back over the arc of the entire story the committee has told over the course of these hearings, and summoning the crowd to D.C. with the infamous tweet on December 19 was the last gasp. That was his taking the thing into his own hands, bringing a crowd here to do exactly what he wanted all along, which was to stop the certification of the vote.

So, when it's actually happening, right, it's going on, that's why he does nothing. And it's not out of laziness. It's a choice to do nothing. Once it's clearly not going to work, it's late in the day. His advisers has been pushing him all day to clean this thing up, tell people to go home. The law enforcement is starting to get the upper hand. The riot is

calming down just a bit. It's not over. People are still getting hurt. He sees the -- what's in the cards here, and now he's got to get out in front of it and save himself a little bit, give himself a little bit of runway and say, oh, no, I really didn't want that to happen.

[13:15:08]

This is classic trying to clean up after the fact. But it cannot undo the damage that he inflicted, the course of conduct that he embarked upon and the conspiracy that he engaged in to overturn this vote. It doesn't clean it up. And it's a patently -- it's a waste of effort on his part. It's not enough.

And I think that's what it looked like as he was recording it on the video we saw last night.

CABRERA: Carrie, the committee says people are still coming forward. So now they're going to have these hearings in September as well.

It sounds like there's been a bit of a snowball effect throughout these hearings. What questions still need to be answered?

CORDERO: I think the big question that was left unanswered by the (AUDIO GAP) held, which was supposed to connect the engagement within the people closest to the president, people like his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, people like Mike Flynn, people like Roger Stone, and the communications, the connections they had to the domestic violent groups that led the charge on the Capitol, that led the physical violence.

And in the last hearing, that was really what the committee had previewed would come out in this hearing. And they included some information about that. But I think, if the committee really intends to show all of the evidence that it says is has collected, because Representative Raskin has said that the committee is in possession of more messages that it has not yet released, I view that as one of the most significant pieces that the committee could continue to explore.

The other part that I think the committee needs to explore more is the federal government law enforcement preparation, or lack thereof, and response on the day -- leading up to and on the day of January 6. So far, the committee has really not held the law enforcement agencies accountable.

CABRERA: Michael, real quick, before I let everybody go, I want to get your thoughts on the outtakes that they showed, because you have been with Trump a long time. You saw him in earlier days.

What did you think about those out takes?

D'ANTONIO: Well, it reminded me of "The Apprentice."

I saw him tape episodes of that show. And he was very temperamental. He didn't want to say things that were in the script. It was always a matter of him ad hoc editing as he goes. And you saw his frustration, his bullying of the camera crew, and I think his resistance to doing the right thing, so consistent with who I know, sadly consistent with the man who led the insurrection.

CABRERA: Thank you all so much for offering those insights and those perspectives, given your experience. I really appreciate your time today.

President Biden's COVID symptoms improved overnight. That's the word from his doctor. And we're expecting an update on the president's condition soon. We will have more on that next, plus a closer look at where COVID is spreading yet again.

And, later, those annoying robocalls about car warranties, how many have you received, I know I have received, over and over and over again? The FCC, however, might be disconnecting them for good. we will explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:48]

CABRERA: An update now on President Biden as he recovers from COVID.

About an hour ago, his doctor revealed the president's symptoms have changed.

CNN's M.J. Lee is at the White House.

M.J., what more are you learning?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, it's been more than 24 hours since we learned that President Biden tested positive for COVID.

And we just got the second written update from his physician about how he is doing. This is what the letter says.

It says that, last night, President Biden's temperature went up to 99.4 degrees, though important to note that is not even typically considered a fever, and that he responded well to taking Tylenol. We also know from the doctor that the dry cough from yesterday is now a loose cough. He still has a runny nose. He has some fatigue. And the doctor says that President Biden's voice sounds a little deeper today.

Importantly and notably, the letter also says from the doctor that President Biden will use an inhaler as needed. Now, in terms of how the president is spending his time, obviously, as he continues to isolate in the White House residence, kind of remarkably, if you take a look at his schedule for today, it's not really such an atypical day.

You look at his schedule, he got the presidential daily brief, which is something that he gets every day. He is meeting with his economic team. We know that he's going to be briefed by his senior advisers on the legislative agenda items that are important to him. But, of course, the big caveat is that all of this is now happening

virtually. Now, the White House also tweeted out this picture of the president working. He is masked in that photograph. Obviously, the White House wants to show that everything is fine. Even though the president did test positive for COVID, he is going to continue doing his job.

And in just a little bit, we will be getting another briefing from the White House press secretary and the White House COVID coordinator, Dr. Ashish Jha. So, we will see what other information they might be able to provide about how the president is doing, Ana.

CABRERA: M.J. Lee at the White House, thank you.

Let's discuss more now with Dr. William Schaffner. He is an infectious disease expert and professor at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Dr. Schaffner, good to see you.

The president's doctor says Biden's symptoms have improved, but we now know he had an elevated temperature last night. He's been given an albuterol inhaler to use as needed. And his cough has changed from dry to -- to nonproductive and loose, we're told.

[13:25:07]

Does that sound like an improvement to you?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, DEPARTMENT OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE CHAIRMAN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Well, these are things, Ana, that sound very much like a typical BA.5 infection in somebody who's well-vaccinated and who's taking Paxlovid.

Clearly, you can have little ups and downs in your symptoms. The important thing that I heard is that his schedule is really unchanged. So his fatigue is not so fatiguing. And there are lots of people I know who've had an infection in exactly this kind of circumstance who have continued to work very carefully at home.

CABRERA: Would someone be prescribed an albuterol inhaler as a preventative measure, or does that signal he may be having trouble breathing?

SCHAFFNER: Well, I'd be speculating, but it sounds as though he might be having a little wheeze on his expiration.

And so that will relieve that and kind of make it easier for him to have that cough. And if it brings up anything that's loose, that will ease that also.

CABRERA: Given what we now know -- and, again, we're expecting perhaps more details and another update coming up in about an hour, what are his doctors most closely watching at this point to make sure his health isn't further compromised?

SCHAFFNER: Well, in addition to just talking to him and getting a sense of how vigorous he is, they're measuring his blood oxygen concentration with that little pulse oximeter that just clips on your finger.

And to all -- to my knowledge, that remains well within normal limits. And so that indicates that we're not having a developing pneumonia, which would be the main thing you would worry about.

CABRERA: Can I ask you about Paxlovid? We know the president has been taking this. There's been a lot of talk about Paxlovid rebound today, which is a reoccurrence of symptoms that some patients experience after they stopped taking this drug.

Dr. Fauci, we know, at age 81 says he experienced that. Just how common is this rebound issue? And what might make someone more susceptible to having rebound symptoms?

SCHAFFNER: Well, it certainly happens in a minority of patients. I don't know that we can predict who's going to be affected going forward.

But, fortunately, these recurrent symptoms are of relatively short duration, and, although discomforting, continued to be mild. They are not a signal that things are going to get worse and someone requires hospitalization.

The Paxlovid interferes with the virus replicating, multiplying, so that the drug kind of sits on the virus. And if there's still some residual virus left after five days, it can multiply a little bit and bite you in the ankle again.

CABRERA: At last check, doctors were still working to determine which variant is involved with the president's infection. We do know that the BA.5 variant is the most prevalent right now, causing nearly 80 percent of new infections here in the U.S.

I know different people experience different COVID symptoms, but I do wonder, what are the predominant symptoms we're seeing with the BA.5 variant?

SCHAFFNER: Well, from all the reports that I have gotten in this neck of the woods, I think the president could write the textbook.

CABRERA: Oh, really?

SCHAFFNER: Fatigue, sore throat, runny nose is very, very prominent, hoarseness, a sense of fatigue, and maybe a very slight temperature elevation that doesn't even go high enough to qualify technically as fever.

CABRERA: Dr. William Schaffner, I really do appreciate your expertise. Thank you so much for being a resource for us and for joining us this afternoon.

SCHAFFNER: My pleasure.

CABRERA: It's Donald Trump vs. Mike Pence, sort of. They're holding dueling rallies tonight in Arizona for two rival GOP candidates. Could this be a preview of a showdown between the two former allies in 2024?

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)