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Trump Gets Hype Video, Pyrotechnics At GOP Event Despite Jan. 6 Hearings; All-Female Crew Tracks Great Whites Off South Africa's Coast; WHO Declares Rapidly Spreading Virus A Public Health Emergency; White House Doctor Says Biden Continues To Improve After Contracting COVID-19; America's CEOs And The Job Market. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired July 24, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:01:03]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Just days after the January 6th Committee exposed a president whose actions were a disaster, there is little evidence that Donald Trump has lost his mojo with the far-right of the Republican Party. In fact, he was greeted with a hero's welcome last night in Florida. Watch this, complete with hyped video and pyrotechnics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, the 45th president of the United States of America, Donald J. Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: But unlike the lyrics to that Lee Greenwood song, Trump didn't gladly stand up to defend the country on January 6th. He sat watching TV for 187 minutes while the insurrection happened and even last night he wasn't letting go of his bogus election grievances.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I stayed home, if I announced that I was not going to run for office, the persecution of Donald Trump would immediately stop. We know that. Everybody knows that. But that's what they want me to do, and, you know what, there's no chance I'd do that. There's just no chance I'd do that. I can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Trump says he's not going to stay silent, not going to stay home, suggesting he will run for president again in 2024. January 6th Committee vice chair Liz Cheney today told CNN's Jake Tapper Donald Trump must never return to power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Donald Trump, the violation of his oath of office, the violation of the Constitution that he engaged in is the most serious misconduct of any president in the history of our nation. There's no doubt in my mind that the president of the United States is unfit for further office. Any man who would conduct themselves, or woman, who would conduct themselves the way that he did in attempting to overturn an election and stay in power must never again be anywhere close to the Oval Office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Let's bring in Republican strategist and former Trump campaign senior adviser David Urban. Also joining me, Olivia Troye. She served as Homeland Security counterterrorism and COVID adviser to former Vice President Mike Pence.

David, let's start with you. That pro-wrestling style Trump entrance, I didn't see any video from January 6th in the montage there. But perhaps that's a given. Your response to Liz Cheney who says that Donald Trump is unfit for office, should be nowhere near the Oval Office again. Do you agree with that?

DAVID URBAN, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Yes, well, Jim, listen, I think that's up to the American people, right. If the president is going to run, the Republican Party and the American people will decide whether he's fit. And, you know, right now the Republican base seems to still enjoy the president, enjoy his stage craft, as you saw there in Florida the other night.

So we'll see. I mean, there are -- the January 6th hearings I think have gotten to some Republicans. You see the president's numbers weaken amongst, you know, Republican voters with the ascension of Governor DeSantis. But, you know, ultimately it will be up to the voters. I don't think that Merrick Garland is going to indict the president here. I don't think you're going to see any formal move like that. So we'll end up seeing again it'll be through the election.

ACOSTA: And, Olivia, I have to ask you about this disturbing report in Axios that says should Trump get elected back into the White House or somehow seizes power, I guess, that he will fire tens of thousands of career civil servants and replace them with loyalists who are already being vetted.

[16:05:10]

Reportedly this purge would focus on the intelligence community, the Pentagon and the Department of Justice. I mean, what is your sense when you dig into a story like that sort of thing?

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Yes, I thought that that report was alarming and disturbing. And look, I'll just say this. This actually started during Trump administration, basically in the last two years of it especially. And certainly that executive order and the kind of effort that they're talking about was actually already in draft. And I was well aware of it and many of us were who were working in government.

I was working in the White House at the time. And we knew what they were up to. Look, I'm a career national security person. I think that that is dangerous. But I do know that, you know, whenever Donald Trump finds a government institution that doesn't necessarily stick to his talking points, he goes out of his way to undermine them. And I do think that, look, a return of Donald Trump to office would be dangerous for the country, and I think he would double down on what he tried to do the first time around and this will be the revenge tour.

And I think that's something that I think the American voters should really think very hard about when you have career national security people, I would say military officers that I saw removed from their roles and career national security -- these are people who know their jobs. I think this is -- I think people should find this concerning.

ACOSTA: David, do you think there's much of a threat posed by Donald Trump getting back into the White House, bringing with him an army of Trump yes men?

URBAN: Well, listen, I -- you could view it that way. I do believe there is -- you know, every president should be afforded people who serve him, who view his -- who share his views on the world, right, and so I think that that was, you know, tried to put in place in this last administration. They didn't really get an opportunity to do so. But to Olivia's point, you know, there is concerning in certain instances when you have people -- you know, you have to ask who is doing the vetting?

Who is doing the -- who's screening the people to say whether or not that they are Trumpy enough or MAGA enough? That's the question. You want to be -- you want people who share the president's world view but they need to be also very, very qualified. And so that's the tension you'll have when you're trying to staff up any presidency and any administration. And so my concern would be that, you know, you go a little too far to the right and you don't choose qualified people just because they're not 100 percent aligned with the president's views.

ACOSTA: But that's what Trump wants, isn't it, David?

URBAN: Look, I think that's what every president wants. And they deserve, to a certain extent. But I -- you know, if I was picking and I would advise the president to pick people who are going to tell you -- you know, are going to give you the pros and the cons. You need to listen to both. You need to pick people in there who are going to challenge you, going to challenge your thinking, who are going to push you on things, and not simply go along with conventional wisdom in the White House or the Pentagon or the State Department.

You need people there who are kind of iconoclasts, big thinkers, big brains but they're also strategic in their vision. But, you know, the president does deserve to have people, whether it's President Biden or President Bush or Obama, whomever, they deserve to have people who share their world view.

ACOSTA: And I guess, Olivia, if he gets back to the White House, as remote as that might be, I suppose, some people will think it's not that remote, he would have to get past the Republican field. Mike Pence would presumably be standing in the way. It sounds as though Mike Pence might be running for president in 2024. We saw this proxy war sort of on full display with the dueling rallies for opposing candidates in Arizona just recently.

And on the same day Pence posted this on Twitter saying, quote, "Some people want this election to be about the past," adding if the Republican Party allows itself to be consumed by yesterday's grievances, we will lose. I mean, Pence is going after Trump there.

TROYE: Yes, and I agree with Mike Pence. Look, I'm actually glad that Mike Pence is out there campaigning in Arizona. That's a critical state where there's a bunch of election deniers and conspiracy theorists that are running amuck and are actually damaging to the Republican Party's brand. We're seeing this happen across the country. And there you have Donald Trump standing by Kari Lake who as far as I'm concerned should not be anywhere near an elected office.

So I'm grateful to Mike Pence who's out there actually trying to bring somewhat normal conservatives back into the fold. And I think that, you know, I think more should be doing that. But so far I'm not really seeing that across the Republican Party right now.

ACOSTA: And, David, I mean, another Republican name that's been thrown into the conversation is Congresswoman Liz Cheney. And here is what she said about that earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I'll make a decision about 2024 down the road, but I do think as we look towards the next presidential election, as I said, you know, I believe that our nation stands on the edge of an abyss.

[16:10:05]

And I do believe that we all have to really think very seriously about the dangers we face and the threats we face, and we have to elect serious candidates, and we've got to elect people who will take their obligations and their oaths seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: David, I remember being with you right before the 2016 election in Pennsylvania, and you showed me the long line outside of that Trump event in that state right before -- I guess, the commonwealth, as folks call it, right before Trump won the presidency.

Do you think somebody like a Liz Cheney or a Mike Pence can really, you know, counter, you know, this hole that Trump has on the Republican Party?

URBAN: Yes, you know, Jim, that's a good question, right? So, you know, what the vice president said is 100 percent correct, right. If the party and people continue to look backwards and it's a party about grievances and not about the future, not about what's next, how do we make America better, right. America is at the crossroads in so many places whether it's national security, economics, industry, right. There are so many problems facing our nation. And if we continue to

look backwards instead of forwards, then we're not going to win. It doesn't matter who our candidate is. And so, you know, we need a platform, a party, a message that reflects, you know, optimism and hope and is forward looking not backward looking. And so to the extent that the former president does that I don't think is going to be successful.

I don't think that Liz Cheney, she's a very serious congresswoman, she's going to be unemployed here shortly I believe in the fall, she's going to lose her election. I don't believe she'd be a serious contender for the presidency just because of where the party is and where she lines up. The vice president always has to be considered a serious contender. Mike Pence is an honorable man, is a very serious individual.

But we'll see who gets in the field. You know, as you recall, Jim, in that 2016 election there were many, many candidates and it winnowed down. If there are a lot of candidates in this field, I think what will happen is, you know, Donald Trump will end up winning with a plurality.

ACOSTA: I definitely think that scenario is very much alive and well. I mean, a lot of people are saying what if Trump is up against this big field in 2024? Well, he did that in 2016 and he won.

All right, David Urban, Olivia Troye, we'll continue the conversation soon. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

URBAN: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Coming up, Discovery "Shark Week" is back with incredible footage of what's lurking just below the surface. We'll get a sneak peek.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:39]

ACOSTA: This just in. A Cape Cod beach was closed this afternoon after confirmed sighting of a white shark according to the Atlantic White Shark Conservancy. The shark was spotted roughly 75 yards offshore of Nauset beach. Just yesterday there were nearly two dozen confirmed shark sightings around the Cape.

America's fascination with sharks will be front and center tonight as Discovery's "Shark Week" kicks off with incredible footage from the next generation of shark explorers. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see a bigger one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 16 feet. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really big.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kelly, you're going to try to tag it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are no words to describe how massive those sharks are when you're under water with them. Powerful, massive, doubly massive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here he comes, here he comes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining me now is Alison Towner, a white shark biologist and "Shark Week" expert whose work you will see on Discovery and Discovery Plus, which shares a parent company with CNN.

Alison, great to have you on. Thank you so much. I was thinking the bars on that cage were a little too wide for my taste. What's it like when you see a shark emerge like that? Just incredible footage here.

ALISON TOWNER, WHITE SHARK BIOLOGIST AND "SHARK WEEK" EXPERT: Hi, Jim. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. How to describe it, I mean, especially a white shark, to see them under water in their natural environment, there's literally nothing else that can compare to it. And they do make the cages seem really, really small.

ACOSTA: And let's take a look at another clip from the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOWNER: Imagine, if the shark that takes the decoy is one of my six.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be insane. I'll be keeping an eye out on the fifth.

TOWNER: Exactly. That's a great thing that you girls have in your cameras because then we can zoom in and we can look at the detail of the fin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know I just hope to see one already.

TOWNER: That is epic. It's your first great white shark.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, again. Those are real tears. Overwhelmed. I never thought I would ever witness this in my life. So this is wild.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Remarkable footage. And you've been trying to solve the mystery of why great whites are disappearing off the coast of South Africa, which has been, you know, a real famous hot spot for them.

[16:20:03]

What have you found? What's the research turning up?

TOWNER: Yes, I mean, just, Jim, you mentioning about off Cape Cod now, the increase of great white sharks and how they're becoming so prevalent there and that's actually a recovery in their numbers in the North Atlantic. Down here in South Africa we're seeing the polar opposite. So since 2017 our white sharks have been in really low numbers in the areas that traditionally they are in very high numbers, and actually it's down to the killer whale (INAUDIBLE).

The entire species (INAUDIBLE) great whites in South Africa and it all have to now feature the arrival of these killer whales. So our show, this one that you now just aired a little bit, (INAUDIBLE) shark women and it's the first-ever all-female "Shark Week" show with South African women hosts. So we're specifically looking at where the sharks have gone to.

ACOSTA: Yes, let's talk about that. You're working with an all-female crew. Unlike the movie "Jaws" where we saw it was all men on the boat. What's that been like?

TOWNER: Yes, I mean, look, "Shark Week" is heavily dominated by male hosts, and, you know, we've got some absolutely kickass women down here in South Africa that are doing the research. So Zandile Ndhlovu is -- she's known as the black mermaid. She has a nonprofit organization centered around empowerment and children's education with the ocean. She's like the first black female free diving instructor. So she brings such amazing component to the team.

And then Leda (INAUDIBLE) is a shark scientist specializes in their nutrition. So together we were really quite a dynamic team. We have all sorts of tools and equipment to be able to go about this voyage and really see where the sharks have gone to from microlites to diving on the side (INAUDIBLE) to pitching behavior. We really pulled out all the stops. So hopefully we gave the guys a bit of a run for their money and hopefully the female audience in America will appreciate it.

ACOSTA: All right, you're certainly giving them a run for their money. All right, Alison Towner, the footage looks so remarkable. Looking forward to watching it.

Alison Towner, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it.

And be sure to catch Alison during "Shark Week" on Discovery and Discovery Plus. It all kicks off tonight at 8:00.

Coming up, sounding the alarm. The World Health Organization declares the monkeypox outbreak a public health emergency. How the Biden administration is responding to stop the spread, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:47]

ACOSTA: The World Health Organization has declared the monkeypox outbreak a global public health emergency. The virus has now spread to dozens of countries and infected tens of thousands of people in just a few weeks. The U.S. has reported over 2800 cases. That's according to the CDC.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now from the White House. Arlette, how is the White House responding to the WHO's declaration? This is certainly stepping things up. Do we think the U.S. might issue a similar kind of declaration?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, top Biden administration officials have really praised this decision from the World Health Organization saying that it is essentially issuing a global call to action to try to fight the spread of monkeypox. But here in the United States White House officials say that they are still assessing whether the U.S. will declare a public health emergency related to monkeypox.

That is a decision that will come down to the Department of Health and Human Services, and, so far, what declaring a public health emergency would do, it would open up some additional measures that the administration could use, some additional tools, to try to contain the spread of this virus that could possibly include additional funding as well.

And here is how Dr. Ashish Jha, the White House COVID Response coordinator, talked about the administration's efforts when it comes to monkeypox and how they're evaluating whether to issue that public health emergency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We have substantially ramped up testing. We have substantially ramped up random vaccinations. We have to keep doing more, by the way. We're not done on that effort. We're going to do more of that in the days and weeks ahead. You know, whether we declare a public health emergency here or not will be based on the facts on the ground and what that declaration will allow us to do. No decisions on that have been made so far. We obviously will continue to assess that on an ongoing basis.

The risk to the broader population is very small and we're going to continue to work on making sure that we contain it in the populations where it is being transmitted and preventing it from spreading to others as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now Dr. Ashish Jha there talks about their efforts to ramp up testing and vaccine distribution as well. And so far the administration has sent around 300,000 doses of the monkeypox vaccine to the states, but that is simply just a fraction of what is needed here in the country. The CDC estimates that there are 1.5 million people who are eligible for such a vaccine. This vaccine is recommended to have two doses, so we will see what the administration might be doing in the weeks ahead as they try to get more of that vaccine out into the country.

ACOSTA: And Arlette, what's the latest on the president's health after that COVID diagnosis? SAENZ: Well, the president's physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, released a

letter today saying that the president's symptoms are increasingly improving. So far the predominant symptom that he is experiencing is a sore throat. The runny nose, the cough, as well as the body aches are starting to improve considerably is what he said in the letter earlier today. The president continues to isolate. His wife, First Lady Jill Biden, is still up in Wilmington, Delaware.

She once again tested negative for COVID-19 today. And a bit earlier Dr. Ashish Jha said that the administration and the White House insist that they will remain transparent about the president's condition including whether he develops any long COVID symptoms. So far the president will continue isolating according to CDC guidelines.

[16:30:00]

That fifth day of isolation is on Tuesday. And he's expected to return to work, once he tests negative.

ACOSTA: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.

And now, to a CNN exclusive that reveals the FBI and other federal agencies have found a dramatic jump in Chinese espionage on U.S. soil over the past decade. Among the most alarming finds, Chinese-made equipment on cell towers near U.S. military bases in the rural Midwest. The FBI determined the devices were capable of intercepting and disrupting highly restricted Defense Department communications, including communications on the country's nuclear weapons.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis joins me now. Katie Bo, excellent report here. What else did the FBI discover in all of this?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes. So, this all began with this big counterintelligence investigation that dates back, really, to the Obama Administration at least. And then, was ultimately briefed up to the Trump White House in 2019.

The FBI knew that these small world telecommunications companies were using Chinese-made Huawei equipment on top of their cell towers in the Midwest, in places like Colorado and Nebraska, where there are a lot of sensitive military installations to include nuclear silos.

Now, the companies are saying that they were using this equipment, because it was reliable. It was affordable. But what the FBI was able to determine, in the course of this investigation, was that the equipment had the capability to intercept and potentially disrupt restricted Defense Department communications.

On top of that, they were able to learn that the main regional provider in the area, Viaero, was posting these weather cameras and traffic cameras on their cell towers all around the region, that they were live streaming as a public service. Which, of course, is great if you want to see if you're going to get hung up in traffic on your way to work.

ACOSTA: Right. LILLIS: But for counterintelligence officials, it raised huge alarm bells, because they knew that China, or any other nation state adversary for that matter, would be able to view those live streams. And then, potentially, track the patterns of sensitive military movements around the region.

And so, the combination of these two things, Jim, was hugely concerning to counterintelligence officials, and came at a time that U.S. officials were increasingly raising alarm bells about what they tell us has been a dramatic increase in Chinese espionage on U.S. soil over the past decade.

So, it's worth taking a listen, I think, to what FBI director, Chris Wray, had to say about this threat, in an exclusive interview with our colleague, Evan Perez, just this month.

ACOSTA: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: There's no country that presents a broader, more comprehensive, and more challenging threat to our economic security, our national security, our innovation, our democratic ideals, than the Chinese government. And that's why the FBI has increased the number of investigations we have into attempts to steal our innovation, our information, our data by the Chinese government or its proxies by about 1,300 percent over the last several years.

We are now investigating opening a new investigation into that kind of economic espionage on average about every 12 hours. That's all 56 of the FBI's field offices. That's probably about 2,000 or so investigations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LILLIS: So, just really difficult, I think, to overstate how significant the findings of this investigations were in that context. As --

ACOSTA: Right.

LILLIS: -- one counterintelligence official familiar with the investigation told us, this went into the BFD category.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Katie Bo, every administration that comes in, I mean, I saw this under Obama, worried about Chinese espionage here in the U.S. The Trump Administration, they were concerned about Huawei and what China was doing here in the U.S. domestically. And now, the Biden administration grappling with this as well. So, --

LILLIS: The equipment is still there.

ACOSTA: -- it continues to go on. All right, Katie Bo, a very important story. Katie Bo, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

LILLIS: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Coming up, inflation, the one group that's had no problem handling the higher cost of just about everything.

[16:34:10]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: You're probably seeing the cost of everything going up these days, so are America's CEOs. Are they feeling the squeeze, too? Not exactly. In fact, the saying, the rich are getting richer, seems to be coming true. In 2021, S and P 500 CEOs made 324 times more than the median workers' pay. That gap has grown over the last three years, and it's growing more than inflation.

And joining me now to talk about this is Scott Galloway, a professor of marketing at NYU's Stern School of Business, and podcast host of the "Professor G Pod With Scott Galloway." Scott, great to see you. It's been a while. Thanks for coming back.

This is an important topic, you know, with historically low unemployment. Anecdotally, you see help wanted signs everywhere you look. We constantly hear that employees have all the power these days.

But at 324 to one on pay, the CEOs are clearly in the driver's seat in this economy. What is -- I mean, what do you make of this, you know, whole notion that there's a great reset for workers going on right now? It sounds like the CEOs are -- they've got it made right now.

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR OF MARKETING, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS (via WebEx): Good to be with you, Jim. Yes, since 2008, we've seen CEO compensation up several fold. We've seen the Nasdaq go up somewhere between four and five X. And we've seen minimum wage skyrocket from $7.25 to $7.25.

And although there's well-publicized examples of a few Starbucks stores or an Amazon warehouse voting to unionize, the reality is it's mostly a head fake.

And I think the media plays a role here. The media's hair is on fire when frontline worker or standard employee wages are up five or eight percent, yet they don't talk about the fact that CEO pay continues to skyrocket at, you know, somewhere in the mid-teens.

[16:40:02]

GALLOWAY: We had -- we decided, several decades ago, to prioritize shareholders over employees. And shareholders really includes CEOs, whose 90 plus, 95 plus percent of their compensation is shareholders. So, this is really a decision by all of us that we're going to prioritize shareholders over workers.

ACOSTA: And, Scott, nearly 400,000 jobs were added last month, and there are still nearly two openings for every one job seeker. That's -- that is good news. But we keep hearing that many businesses are starting to prepare for a recession. What would that mean for the ability to keep a job or find a better job going forward? Are you buying into this, that a recession is inevitable right now?

GALLOWAY: There are so many mixed signals here, Jim. I mean, everything is unprecedented. You know, history has built on a series of unprecedented events. And what we have here is really conflicting signals, because we've never not gone into a recession when we've raised interest rates as quickly as we've been raising them.

But, at the same time, we've also never gone into a recession when unemployment is as low as it is right now. I would argue that it's going to be just as most recessions categorized are either categorized as white collar or blue collar.

I would describe this recession as being a Patagonia investor session. And what do I mean by that? I think tech which has just drawn a dramatic amount of investment over the last 13 years. And you see the wages of engineers and tech employees skyrocket. That's the area that's going to be hit hardest, because there's been such an overinvestment. But it's hard to imagine unemployment is really going to hit frontline workers, because -- and this is anecdotal evidence.

But, Jim, I don't know where you live. I live in New York. I've been walking around the city this weekend with my boys. And there are lines to get in stores. And anyone, who's called a customer-service line or been in an airport, realized there's an enormous shortage of frontline workers.

So, I do think we're going to have a recession that's going to hit information workers especially hard.

ACOSTA: And here's what the treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, said about a recession that she says is not inevitable right now. Let's listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY, UNITED STATES: So, there are threats on the horizon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

YELLEN: Growth is slowing globally. And I'm not saying that we will definitely avoid a recession. But I think there is a path that keeps the labor market strong and brings inflation down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right, Scott, are we asking this question too much about a recession, to the point where it becomes, sort of, a self-fulfilling prophecy? And people at home are putting off big purchases. They don't want to buy a car. They don't want to buy a house. They don't want to buy other things, because they're -- they keep hearing us talking about a recession. GALLOWAY: Yes, that's a good point, Jim. It can become a self-

fulfilling prophecy. If people just start getting scared and lose confidence, they stop -- they stop buying.

I think the biggest evidence or best forward-looking indicator that we may not go into a recession is that almost everyone is predicting one. And, typically, when economists are in agreement about one thing, it usually means it's not going to happen.

Janet Yellen's proclamation that we're going -- may not be going into recession is kind of the -- one of the few people that's said that. And, you know, I would argue, we talk about this as if it's such a big deal. I would argue the real recession is societally. We're all so obsessed with the Nasdaq and the Dow, yet three of the last four years, we've had a decline in life expectancy. We're going to lose 47,000 people this year to opioid addiction.

A recession is something that usually happens every seven or eight years. It burns some of the underbrush, and we'll get through it. So, I worry that we're studying to the wrong test here. And we're so obsessed with the recession and the Nasdaq, that we're not looking at the true crises here in the U.S. and that is polarization, addiction, failing young men and a decline in life expectancy.

But, yes, we're probably due for a recession. And you know what? It's probably a good thing.

ACOSTA: All right. And, Scott, nearly -- let's talk about the president's handling of the economy. Nearly seven in 10 Americans now disapprove of how President Biden is handling the economy. That's a number that has grown steadily this year. And, you know, it is threatening Democrats in the fall in the November midterms.

What do you think? I mean, as you're -- as you're looking at all of this, is there something that the White House or the president could be doing differently to tackle this? Is it a messaging issue? Or, you know, what do you see?

GALLOWAY: Yes. Well, perception is reality. And, unfortunately, the Biden administration, I would argue, has some of the worst communications of any -- of any administration in history. They've created close to 10 million jobs. COVID deaths are down 90 percent. I would argue, we've repaired a lot of the relationships.

I mean, if you just looked at the indicators, you would --you would think people would be happy. But I think companies or media that, sort of, incentivize to create a situation or conflict. Social media platforms that pit us against each other.

What I would argue is an administration that doesn't have a lot of great communicators. I think President Biden is not a forceful communicator. I don't think his vice president has been seen as an inspiring communicator.

[16:45:01] GALLOWAY: The administration here, simply put, needs to go on the offensive here. Stop apologizing and find some people within the administration that can -- that can highlight some of their incredible achievements here. Because if you look at the numbers, we're in a much better place than we were two years ago. We were -- have literally been walked back from a global crisis, a tremendous on a -- you know, tremendous economic anxiety. Things are a lot better than they're getting credit for.

ACOSTA: Well, and as gas prices are going down, I think people will feel that more. I mean, there has been so much of a focus on that, Scott. That I think that's been -- what has been causing a lot of this anxiety. But, Scott Galloway, you've given us a lot to chew on, as always. Great to see you. Thanks again.

GALLOWAY: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good to see you.

Coming up, a rare show of solidarity in space. Two astronauts, one European and one Russian, conduct a joint spacewalk for the first time in more than 20 years. Details ahead.

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ACOSTA: As the war rages in Ukraine, an incredible show of diplomacy miles above the earth. For the first time in more than 20 years, a Russian cosmonaut and a European astronaut have conducted a joint spacewalk at the International Space Station. CNN's Kristin Fisher reports.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is mission control Houston. The hatch to the air lock is open.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's rare for a European astronaut to put on a Russian space suit and do a spacewalk with a cosmonaut outside the International Space Station. But it's even more unusual, given the war in Ukraine raging a few hundred miles below. Especially since this cosmonaut, Oleg Artemyev, is one of the three pictured here, photographed a few weeks ago with the flags of two Russian occupied regions in Ukraine. The other spacewalker is Samantha Cristoforetti with the European Space Agency or ESA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Samantha, it is your time to shine.

SCOTT KELLY, FORMER ASTRONAUT, NASA: I think Samantha doing that spacewalk with Oleg is -- you know, the optics aren't the greatest but they're in space. It's work that needs to get done.

FISHER: Former astronaut, Scott Kelly, spent nearly three months in space with Cristoforetti back in 2015. Her mission on this spacewalk is to continue activating the European robotic arm that's attached to the Russian segment of the station. The same robotic arm that the former head of Russia's space agency instructed cosmonauts to stop using earlier this month, after Europe killed a separate space project with Russia over objections to the war in Ukraine. Dmitry Rogozin was removed as the head of Roscosmos just days later.

KELLY: I was really, really happy to see him go.

FISHER: Kelly was one of Rogozin's most vocal critics even getting into a few Twitter fights before Rogozin blocked him. Rogozin repeatedly threatened to pull Russia out of the Space Station in response to U.S. sanctions. Now, Kelly's hopeful that Rogozin's replacement, Yuri Borisov, will improve Roscosmos's relationship with NASA.

Borisov will now be in charge of overseeing a newly agreed upon seat swap. Starting in September, two Russian cosmonauts will launch on U.S. space crafts from Florida, while two American astronauts will ride Russian rockets into space. It's a practice that's been done in the past but never with tensions this high.

KELLY: I have mixed feelings about it.

FISHER: The International Space Station has survived every conflict on earth for more than two decades. And despite the war in Ukraine, this unlikely partnership continues in space. A European and Russian working side by side for seven hours to finish the job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much for your hard work.

FISHER: Kristin Fisher, CNN, Washington.

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ACOSTA: A paramedic, a nurse from Alaska, is helping Ukrainians forced out of their homes by Vladimir Putin's brutal war since February. Her volunteers have traveled to the region three times to care for 1,000 Ukrainian refugees.

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TERESA GRAY, FOUNDER, MOBILE MEDICS INTERNATIONAL: What we were expecting to see was large groups of people housed in tent cities. And, actually, they are housing these refugees in individual dorm rooms. They've got food. They've got shelter. But the trauma is the same. They've lost almost everything. This is filled with women, children and elderly.

There is a flu outbreak currently that obviously affects the children. We also have pre-existing conditions. It isn't just about fixing the broken arm or giving you medicine. It's making that human connection. Sometimes, you need to hold their hand and walk them down a hallway and listen to them. We try to meet the needs of whatever presents to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smile, everybody. GRAY: Human suffering has no borders. People are people and love is

love.

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ACOSTA: And to see her full story go to CNNHeroes.com. And we'll be right back.

[16:54:40]

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ACOSTA: From the grass lands all the way up to its ice fields, an epic journey through CNN's -- through Patagonia's wild highlands is part of the CNN special that's coming up tonight. Here's a preview.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isa (ph) has found what he's looking for.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Latin name (INAUDIBLE), aka the Patagonian Ice Dragon.

"Patagonia: Life on the Edge of the World" airs tonight right here on CNN.

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