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Donald Trump To Run Again For The Oval Office?; California Oak Fire Still Not Contained; A Video Clip Of Senator Josh Hawley Shows He Is Running Away From Rioters; A Recession Alarm In Wall Street; Politics In Texas And The Influence Of Billionaires. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 24, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Just days after the January 6th Committee exposed a president bent on clinging to power, Donald Trump has maintained his grip on much of the Republican Party thanks to his rock star status on the far right. He was greeted with a hero's welcome last night in Florida that would make a pro wrestler blush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I fight harder for you than any president has ever fought. That I can --

We're going to make America great again. I love you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the 45th President of the United States of America, Donald J. Trump!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, that actually did happen last night in Tampa, Florida. But unlike the lyrics to that Lee Greenwood song, Trump did not gladly stand up to defend the country on January 6th. He sat as the testimony was laid out watching television for 187 minutes while the insurrection unfolded. And even last night, he wasn't letting go of his big election lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I stayed home, if I announced that I was not going to run for office, the persecution of Donald Trump would immediately stop. We know that. Everybody knows that. But that's what they want me to do. And you know what, there's no chance I do that. There's just no chance I do that. I can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Trump was dropping hints nearly every day that he plans to run for president again in 2024. The January 6th Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney today insisted Trump must never return to power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Donald Trump, the violation of his oath of office, the violation of the constitution that he engaged in, is the most serious misconduct of any president in the history of our nation. There's no doubt in my mind that the president of the United States is unfit for further office. Any man who would conduct themselves, or woman, who would conduct themselves the way he did in attempting to overturn an election and stay in power must never again be anywhere close to the Oval Office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now is the former director of strategic communications for the 2020 Trump campaign, Marc Lotter. Marc also works with America First Policy Institute, a Trump-friendly group that is welcoming the ex-president to Washington for a speech that is set for this Tuesday. It will be Trump's first visit to Washington since he left power in January of last year. And Marc, I have to start by asking you this. Why invite Trump back to Washington after he tried to pull off a coup on January 6th?

MARC LOTTER, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, he's still the leader of the America First Movement. He is the biggest name. He is the visionary behind many of the policies that got him elected to the White House. And when you look at what's going on in America right now, so many people are clamoring for that kind of leadership, that policy leadership back. They want cheap gas, growing paychecks, soaring stock markets and not what we have right now. So, to give voice to that agenda, to lay it out for the congressional midterms and beyond I think there's nobody better than the former president to be able to do that.

ACOSTA: But it's like he's returning to the scene of the crime.

LOTTERS: Well, he left office --

ACOSTA: He incited an insurrection. I mean, he -- why even bring him to Washington?

LOTTER: He left as the former president. He left office on January 20th. You know, what is going to happen next, I think is entirely up to the voters and the president and any other people who might be getting into the race. But the one thing I think we know is that the policies worked. And so, what we're focused on is really setting that stage, laying out that policy framework to get back to those winning policies. And President Trump is still one of the leaders, if not, the biggest name, you know, in that movement.

ACOSTA: Setting aside the debate of whether the policies work, there are a lot of Republicans, a lot of Trump advisers who will say that the president, former president eviscerated his legacy when he tried to pull off a coup on January 6th. So, why bring him to Washington?

LOTTER: Well, this is -- ACOSTA: I mean, don't you -- isn't there something just wrong about

Donald Trump showing up in Washington after what happened on January 6th?

[17:05:03]

LOTTER: You know, I think regardless of whether you agree with the former president or any former politician, you know, they hold a certain standing. If you want to outline your policy vision, you know, I'm sure, you know, other former presidents obviously spend time doing that as well.

ACOSTA: But he doesn't have the same standing as a former President Bush or former President Obama.

LOTTER: Well, I think that's in the minds of the media, but I think what we have to decide, I mean, if he decides to run, if he decides not to run, let the voters decide that. I think that's one of the things that we learned from 2016, is that, you know, all of the pundits on both sides and across the media spectrum, they were making the decision that this man should be the nominee or this person should not be the nominee.

And what we've seen from 2016, we're even seeing in the primary cycles today, is that the voters will decide who they believe will carry their voice to Washington, D.C. or state houses. And I think having President Trump lead that charge from a policy standpoint, lay out that --

ACOSTA: The problem is he led the charge on January 6th. He led a charge -- he called insurrectionists off to the capitol and they defaced, defecated our democracy.

LOTTER: Well, you know, when you look at -- when you look at what's going on out there across America, that's not what they're worried about right now. I mean, I think, what, 17 million people watched the last prime time hearing. That's like 90 percent of people who voted in the 2020 election aren't even watching these hearings right now. It's like one in 10.

So, most of the American people out there are talking about gas prices and grocery store prices and worried about the economy. They're not focused, unlike in Washington, D.C., on everything that come -- that happens with the January 6th Committee.

ACOSTA: According to the committee, Trump stayed holed up in the White House dining room watching television for more than three hours. He was unwilling to tell the insurrectionists to go home because they were, quote, "his people." And according to witnesses, Trump never made a single call to law enforcement, the Pentagon, even to check on his own vice president, Mike Pence, who you used to work for. Let's listen to some of this right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): On the screen is the last photograph of the president that night as he went into the residence. As he was gathering his things in the dining room to leave, President Trump reflected on the day's events with the White House employee. President Trump said nothing to the employee about the attack. He said only, quote, "Mike Pence let me down."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, Marc, you are a former Pence staffer. You used to work with Mike Pence for many years. What is your reaction to that? I mean, at the end of the day, after all of that, all Trump had to say was Mike Pence let me down? He didn't let down Donald Trump. He actually stood up for the country at a critical moment in this history.

LOTTER: And the vice president laid that out in that letter that he wrote and released that day on what he thought the constitution said. And obviously most people tend to agree with that. And he's even said many times, that he and the former president will probably never agree on the events of January 6th.

But the biggest thing that, you know, that I take away from this is this, I compare this hearing to a grand jury. We are only seeing one side of the story. We're getting the prosecution side of the story and they're actually floating it out --

ACOSTA: Although Republicans had a chance. Kevin McCarthy had a chance to put people on this committee and he --

LOTTER: No, we're still only selectively seeing their narrative. And so, you know, they interview Pat Cipollone for, you know, the White House counsel for what, eight or nine hours. We see a few soundbites. "The New York Times" has written a story a couple of weeks ago that the producer that was hired to put this T.V. show on was looking how to fit the soundbites into their narrative.

So, it doesn't sound seem to me that these hearings are even designed to get to the truth, but tell a story that they've already said. You know, I read somewhere in one of the --

ACOSTA: But let me ask you this --

LOTTER: -- one of the major media that said they didn't even mention in those hearings, and I didn't get to see the whole thing, they didn't even mention the fact that the president did tweet twice during those 187 minutes to say, stay peaceful, we're about law and order, respect the police.

ACOSTA: But as Sarah Matthews testified, I mean, she was one of those folks who was in the White House, a White House staffer at the time, she was testifying that she was told that Trump didn't want to tweet out that stay peaceful message and that, you know, there were other members of the administration, Pat Cipollone, who you just mentioned, he was essentially the -- Trump was essentially the only person inside the White House who did not want the insurrectionists to go home. Everybody else wanted them to go home.

I just had to ask you Marc, I mean, he's coming to speak to your organization on Tuesday, do you believe that Trump lost the election?

LOTTER: I think there is no question. Joe Biden is in the Oval Office. They took the oath of office on January 20th. America watched so there's no --

ACOSTA: But, Marc, you're dancing around the question. Of course, Joe Biden is in the Oval Office. Did Donald Trump lose the election, yes or no?

LOTTER: Yes.

ACOSTA: He lost the election.

LOTTER: He lost the election.

ACOSTA: Okay. And why can't Trump acknowledge that? I mean, the day after January 6th he was not willing to say that he lost the election. He was not willing to say that he lost a fair election.

[17:10:01]

LOTTER: Well, you know, I think there is many -- many examples. We even saw the Wisconsin Supreme Court overrule saying the use of the ballot boxes was outside of the legislative process and it went too far. There were many questions like that that are going on in many states. Now, that does not prove fraud and so I'm not making that point, but --

ACOSTA: But I guess it could work to my --

LOTTER: -- there were extraordinary steps that would -- that did lead to questions for many people. The key is what do we do about it going forward.

ACOSTA: No, no, no. All -- this was a free and fair election. That's been said repeatedly by conservative Republicans, Trump Republicans who have now lost faith in Donald Trump. But I mean, it comes back and I wanted to ask you some other questions about the summit, but I think the key overarching issue here, Marc, is why bring Donald Trump to Washington?

You were willing to say a few moments ago that Donald Trump lost the election. Why bring him to Washington if he's still at these rallies, at these speeches saying these cockamamy things that he won the election and that the election was stolen from him? Why even bring him to the nation's capital?

LOTTER: Well, this is a policy speech that he'll be giving. It's probably more akin to a state of the union where he's going to lay out his vision. And the American --

ACOSTA: What's his policy going to be? How to do a coup?

LOTTER: The policy is going to deal with getting gas prices down, growing people's paychecks, getting America strong again, sealing our border, bringing back law and order to our crime plagued cities. The things that are actually on the minds and the concerns of the American people.

ACOSTA: With no second thoughts. You don't think there's something crass in just on -- just un-American about bringing Donald Trump here after what he did?

LOTTER: I think as an American citizen, you have a right to come and voice your opinion. You have your right to just come out and lay your policy vision whether it's in New York City, Washington, D.C. or anywhere in the heartland. He is the leader of the America First Movement. If he chooses to --

ACOSTA: But it was you who used to work for Mike Pence. Wouldn't you rather see Mike Pence as the standard-bearer for your party?

LOTTER: I believe Mike Pence is giving a speech on Monday here in Washington, D.C. at a different organization. But that's the great thing. We've got such a strong bench. We have so many people out there. They are all singing from the same song page when it comes to the policies that we have to do.

They will put that in front of the American people and they'll decide who the standard-bearer is or who is going to control Congress in January of next year. And then we'll have that debate in 2024 or for 2024. But in the meantime, I think the good thing is that people are talking about the policy side. We'll deal with the person who heads the party at a later date.

ACOSTA: Alright, Marc Lotter, thank you very much.

LOTTER: Good to see you.

ACOSTA: We got some of those policy subjects in there. Thanks very much.

Coming up, firefighters struggling to contain a wildfire near Yosemite National Park. You're looking at some live pictures right now of those raging wildfires as we speak. Thousands of acres already destroyed. Thousands of buildings now at risk. We'll talk about that next. A live report coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

ACOSTA: With temperatures soaring around the world, former Vice President Al Gore is comparing climate crisis deniers to the botched police response during the mass shooting in Uvalde. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You know, the climate deniers are really in some ways similar to all of those almost 400 law enforcement officers in Uvalde, Texas who were waiting outside an unlocked door while the children were being massacred. They heard the screams. They heard the gun shots, and nobody has stepped forward. And God bless those families who suffered so much.

And law enforcement officials tell us that's not typical of what law enforcement usually does. And confronted with this global emergency, what we're doing with our inaction in failing to walk through the door and stop the killing is not typical of what we are capable of as human beings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Today in the U.S., over 90 million people are under heat alerts, 90 million with several major cities forecast to break daily high temperature records. Boston just did that hitting 100 degrees today, breaking a record set 89 years ago. In New York City, one person died from heat exposure as the city swelters under a heat advisory.

In California, a fast-moving wildfire near Yosemite National Park has burned through more than 14,000 acres in just three days. These jaw dropping images show why thousands of people had to evacuate, some with just the clothes that they were wearing.

Despite their efforts, firefighters have this wildfire zero percent contained. CNN's Camila Bernal joins me now live from Mariposa County where this blaze is raging right now. Camila, how is the weather impacting the firefighting efforts? They really need to get this under control.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim, they do. And the weather really is not helping. I talked to one firefighter who told me, look, we are at the mercy of Mother Nature and that's because the weather really has a lot to do with how far they can get. Their efforts, their work, all dependent on that weather and they say right now this is the worst time.

They say the afternoons it's bad for them because temperatures are high. The humidity is low. And then the wind gusts start to pick up around this time. So, this is really the concern for them. They also say they've had a lot of trouble with the terrain because they say this area has very steep areas. And so, what they say is it's hard to get to those flames.

They also say it's really hard to get to some of the homes in the area because people live in big lots here, say five acres or so. And so, what firefighters are saying is that it's hard to get to these homes that are essentially surrounded by the forest. They say in some cases the forest is overgrown and dry.

There are thousands who have evacuated, who have left with very little things, who are waiting to see what happens to their homes. But there are others who say they rather stay here and wait to see what happens with those flames. I talked to a resident who's been here for 20 years, John Mullen, and here is what he told me.

[17:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN MULLEN, RESIDENT, MARIPOSA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: You get real nervous. But when the embers -- Friday night was the worst night for us on tiptop.

BERNAL: Why?

MULLEN: Because the stuff was coming out of the sky and it will spot. The fires will, you know, jump to our property so we had to be, you know, prepared. I've seen fire before so, I feel like I can protect myself. I have no kids with me at my house so, I can leave at a moment's notice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And while the fire is still zero percent contained, there are a lot more resources. Cal Fire say they started the day yesterday with 400 people. Today, they have more than 2,000. You can see those efforts in the air and on the ground here, but it is going to take some time to get this fire under control. Jim?

ACOSTA: And the images are just stunning looking at these pictures right now. Alright, Camila Bernal, stay safe. Thank you very much.

From fist pumper to fleeing the capitol, the video of congress or Senator Josh Hawley that actually brought laughter to the January 6th hearing and how he's trying to spin it. Plus, is winning more important than an athlete's mental health, Kamau Bell heads to the legendary sports town of Boston, Massachusetts to find out in a new episode of "United Shades of America." That's tonight at 10:00.

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[17:25:00]

ACOSTA: In what was certainly an interesting choice of words, Senator Josh Hawley says he's not going to run from his critics after the January 6th Committee highlighted how he showed solidarity with the insurrectionists but then later fled from them. The video of Hawley actually running through the halls of Congress brought laughter to the hearing room. Here is how Hawley reacted during an event in Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I objected on January 6th last year to the state of Pennsylvania, and I just want to say to all of those liberals out there in the liberal media, just in case you haven't gotten the message yet, I do not regret it and I am not backing down. I'm not going to apologize. I'm not going to cower, I'm not going to run from you, I'm not going to bend the knee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining me now is CNN political commentator and host of PBS "Firing Line" Margaret Hoover and John Avlon, senior political analyst for CNN and author of the book "Lincoln and the Fight for Peace." John, Hawley says he will not run from the liberals, but he definitely ran for the hills there on January 6th as former Senator Al Franken told me yesterday, Hawley was, quote, "hauling ass."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look. I mean, Hawley went from, you know, the solidarity fist salute to scurrying out down the halls of Congress away from the mob that he was trying to help rile up. In the effort to clean it up in the black t-shirt saying he's not going to run from his critics. He is self-evidently absurd as running down the hallway in the first place.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Actually, self-evidently -- observe, it was actually in his own self-preservation to run down the hallways because had he been found -- you know, it's unclear what an angry mob would have done to anybody that they, you know, thought was ideologically aligned with them.

I mean, that was -- he was doing the smart thing there and he is -- all he can do now is try to spin, spin, spin, it's all the liberal media's fault. And it's, you know, Republicans have been doing that for about 30 years now. Actually, I'm going to go further back, I'm going to go 60 years. Maybe the better part of the 20th century. We've been blaming the liberal media and it's okay. Sometimes there's a point. But here he's just trying to cover his tracks.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, to me, what the media is doing in terms of how they cover it is totally irrelevant. I mean, you know, the juxtaposition is just painful. I mean, it just absolutely -- and it brought laughter to the hearing room, Republicans, Democrats, members of the media, everybody was laughing at that moment. But, you know, at the same Turning Point USA event in Florida, we saw other Republican members of Congress embrace the culture wars and incredibly misogynistic and bigoted ways. Let's take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Talked to a student recently at one of our woke college campuses who said she is required in every class to introduce herself and to give her pronouns. Well, I'm Ted Cruz, and my pronoun is kiss my ass.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Why is it that the women with the least likelihood of getting pregnant are the ones most worried about having abortions? Nobody wants to impregnate you if you look like a thumb. These people are odious on the inside and out. They are like 5'2", 350 pounds and they're like give me my abortions or I'll get up and march and protest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Margaret, who is this meant to appeal to?

HOOVER: Yes. Here is a problem, Jim, and it's actually a problem that Liz Cheney explicitly pointed to in her closing statement in the January 6th Committee hearing on Thursday. It's a problem that is starting to be covered by the right and the center right. The right -- some bastions of the right have really protected misogyny and sexism and are now upholding them and sort of heralding them. And you know, we are in a, you know, 21st century where sexism still

exists in a lot of corners of industry and our culture. But to have elements of the Republican Party and the base of the Republican Party holding it up and pointing to it as though this is an iconic way for a party to be is a losing strategy.

[17:30:00]

And it's really despicable and I'm glad that some people on the right are starting to point it out like Liz Cheney and the others.

ACOSTA: Yes, John, what did you think when you saw that?

AVLON: Look, I think it's more of the same. We've got a party that is trolling, is at sort of the heart of its appeal. And if some of these folks want to talk about a crisis of masculinity in this country and feeling that they can't, you know, the traditional, you know, roles have been challenged in a way that's eroding the self-conscious as a man, I think being a phony tough and punching down is the opposite of being a strong man.

ACOSTA: Yes, there's a lot of that faux macho stuff going on these days. And this morning, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, who is gay, was asked about Republican opposition to codify same sex marriage including a remark from Senator Marco Rubio who said doing so would be a, quote, "stupid waste of time." Here's how the secretary reacted to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: If he's got time to fight against Disney, I don't know why he wouldn't have time to help safeguard marriages like mine. Our marriage deserves to be treated equally. And I don't know why this would be hard for a senator or a congressman. I don't understand how such a majority of House Republicans voted no on our marriage as recently as Tuesday, hours after I was in a room with a lot of them talking about transportation policy, having what I thought were perfectly normal conversations with many of them on that subject only for them to go around the corner and say that my marriage doesn't deserve to continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Guys, do you think the Democrats can ultimately get the 10 Senate Republicans they need to codify same-sex marriage or do you think it's going to be tough?

HOOVER: You know, I'm going to go out, I'm going to cut my husband off here because I've been, you know, working the phones and try -- I have my ear -- I think I have my ear to the ground on this one, Jim. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say Republicans are going to provide at 10, least 10 votes and this will is going to be codified.

ACOSTA: Wow.

HOOVER: And it's, by the way, it's not hard. Look, Marco Rubio doesn't typify the Republican Party on this -- 55 percent of Republicans support same-sex marriage, 70 percent of the country, by the way, that's like from a Gallup poll a year ago. And Republicans especially in the Senate, as you know, are less subject to the vicissitudes of the primaries.

And the Senate Republicans, I think, especially the way this bill is written, I think we'll lose a couple because the bill was written hastily and with a little bit more inclusive language. We could have gotten more than 10, significantly more than 10, but I think at least those 10 will be there because it's not codifying. It's a reciprocity bill to make sure that marriages, if Obergefell is overturned, marriages from California are respected in Alabama and vice versa, but presumably Alabama won't be marrying same-sex couples.

ACOSTA: And John, I wanted to ask you about Gavin Newsom. I mean, it just seems that the California governor is positioning himself for a run despite all signs pointing to Biden -- well, most signs pointing to Biden running again. I guess not all signs are pointing to it, but many signs. And Newsom is buying airtime in Florida to go after Ron DeSantis. He's running ads in Texas against Governor Greg Abbott on guns and abortion.

What do you, I mean, what do you think about this? Do you think that Newsom is reacting to polls that show that even a majority of Democrats are not really hot on the idea of Biden running again in 2024? What do you think?

AVLON: Yes! This is Gavin Newsom testing the presidential campaign.

ACOSTA: He's like adjusting case campaign, is that what this is?

AVLON: Oh, look, I think it's more than that. Look, when, you know, Joe Biden, who I think, you know, most Democrats support, but still don't think he should run for re-election and that has to do with reasons of vigor and also, I think, an appetite. You know, he has a very reconciling form of politics.

Right now, Democrats, I think, are falling into a trap, a temptation to want a fighting liberal to counter what they see as the fighting folks on the right. That will be an even more divisive fight because what presidents really need to do is try to unite the nation no matter how difficult that may be. But you're seeing Gavin Newsom try to buy airtime and play that role very publicly.

And I think you're going to see the party as they look to see what plan B is beyond Joe Biden. I think you are going to see them looking to a lot of governors in particular. And Newsom is a very prominent governor. There's J.B. Pritzker, you know, there's Jared Polis. There are a lot of other, you know, governors who I think they're going to be looking to.

And I think what you're going to see is a lot of folks saying, look, I'm going to fight for you, and the question is at what cost in terms of inflaming the divisions already in front of the country. But I think Democrats are fed up and I think Joe Biden seems like -- I think that poll is damning. There's no way other around it same if -- the Democrats think he shouldn't run for re-election.

[17:34:59]

ACOSTA: Alright. We'll watch and see what the numbers do here on out. I mean, as the gas prices come down, the president may find his poll numbers starting to go back up and that we're starting to see some of that across the country. Alright, John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, great to see you guys. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

AVLON: Take care.

ACOSTA: Coming up, new texts revealed by the January 6th Committee reveal how Trump's own campaign aides were shocked by his refusal to acknowledge the death of a Capitol police officer after January 6th. Their private exchange, pretty alarming. You'll want to watch this next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: New day, a whale slamming into a boat off of the coast of Massachusetts. Take a look at this. You can see the moment the whale breached and landed on the bow of the boat this morning. Just incredible stuff. This happened near a beach in Plymouth. Incredibly, no one was hurt. And the town harbor master says there was only minor damage to the 19-foot boat. Local harbor officials are recommending boats remain at least 100 yards from whales to minimize potential interactions that could be dangerous.

[17:40:00]

Donald Trump is once again teasing a second run for the Oval Office. Trump appeared before thousands of young conservatives at a Florida summit last night and pushed his big election lie before hinting at a 2024 bid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I ran twice. I won twice and did much better the second time than I did the first. Getting millions and millions more votes than we did in 2016. And likewise getting more votes than any sitting president in the history of our country by far, and now we may just have to do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Fact check, he did lose. And joining me now to talk about this is former Trump administration official Gavin Smith. He's also CEO of Gavin James Public Affairs. Gavin, I remember seeing you out on the campaign trail so many times. You used to work as an advance staffer for the Trump campaign.

You know, you know all too well Trump has signaled he's made up his mind about running again, but that he's weighing when to make this announcement. You're still in touch with folks in Trump world. What's your sense of what Donald Trump is going to do and when he's going to make this decision? GAVIN SMITH, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, thanks for

having me, Jim. You know, what I'm hearing is will Trump run or not? And I'm not sure that he has made his mind up. And I'll tell you why I think that and what I'm hearing, is that simply, you know, a new poll that just came out from "Politico" and "Morning Consult" shows only 53 percent of Republicans want Donald Trump to be the Republican nominee.

Further, another poll that just came out shows that 51 percent of Republicans want Donald Trump to be heavily involved in the 2024 race. And that's down from 60 percent just a month earlier in May. So, what we're seeing is, you know, Donald Trump doesn't like to lose so, I'm not particularly sure that he has made up his mind. But instead, might rather throw his weight behind someone else that, you know, may can actually win.

ACOSTA: And the January 6th Committee showed text messages between two senior Trump aides condemning his failure to acknowledge the death of U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick in the attack. Tim Murtaugh, communications director for the re-election campaign said this, quote, "Also shitty not to have even acknowledged the death of the capitol police officer" to which Matthew Wolking, a campaign spokesman said, quote, "that is enraging to me. Everything we said about supporting law enforcement is a lie."

And then Murtaugh replies to that, "You know what this is, of course. If he acknowledge the dead cop, he'd be implicitly faulting the mob and he won't do that because they're his people." Gavin, you know, during your time, you know, out there with Donald Trump out on the campaign trail, how often would you observe staffers behind the scenes sort of expressing their disgust or rolling their eyes while presenting a different view publicly as that go on?

SMITH: Yes. Well, you know, I think that there were red flags that were always raised, but there are so many of us that are proud of the accomplishments of the Trump administration, but they more or less gotten -- lost in the noise of things like this, particularly the January 6th riots at our capitol.

You know, again, there are so many things that Donald Trump could be proud of, but they're getting lost in the noise. And I think that's where a lot of staffers are, is you know, we have so much to be proud of, but, again, it's just getting lost in the noise.

ACOSTA: And I have to ask you this. You know, what we saw during the January 6th hearings, we saw so many young aides, folks like yourself, you didn't testify, but there are young aides like Cassidy Hutchinson, Sarah Matthews, others who testified, and yet we saw a lot of older, you know, and let's just be honest about this, men, from the administration and from Trump world, people like Mark Meadows, Kevin McCarthy refusing to testify.

What does that say about some of these young staffers who are willing to speak out, in some cases, they were forced to speak out because of the subpoena and so on, while these older established figures here in Washington were, I guess, too afraid? SMITH: Yes. Well, you know, I think that it speaks to their tremendous

courage. I mean, I know Sarah and Stephanie Grisham and, you know, Cassidy Hutchinson, I know that they've gotten tremendous backlash from Trump world. And what I can tell you is that it's not easy being in Trump world and leaving Trump world.

You know, so, I think it speaks to their tremendous courage. And then as it relates to the individuals that have chosen not to testify, I have a message for them. And I think it's never the wrong time to tell the truth, and they still have that opportunity. It's not too late and I think that they should do that.

ACOSTA: Alright, Gavin Smith, hey, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

SMITH: Thanks for having me, Jim.

ACOSTA: Alright. And it's the buzz word on Wall Street these days, recession. Here is Vanessa Yurkevich with your "Before the Bell" report.

[17:44:58]

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jim. Amid warning signs of a recession, the Federal Reserve continues its fight against inflation. On Wednesday, the central bank is expected to raise interest rates by another 75 basis points. That matches the rate hike in June which was the largest since 1994. And it's a delicate balance for the Fed raising rates just enough to tame inflation without pushing the economy into a recession.

We get a snapshot on Thursday with the first look at second quarter GDP. But U.S. growth is expected to decline just like in the first quarter. That's a troubling sign for the economy. Two straight quarters of loss is a sign of a recession. And corporate earnings also continue this week and it's still all about tech with reports from Microsoft, Google parent Alphabet, Meta, Apple and Amazon.

It's been a rough year for tech stocks. The high value shares are less attractive to investors in a high-rate environment. The Nasdaq is down nearly 25 percent so far this year. In New York, I'm Vanessa Yurkevich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:00]

ACOSTA: Texas is one of only 10 states with no limitations on the amount of money an individual person can donate to a political campaign. The result, billionaires in the shadows shaping some of the most conservative legislation in the country. CNN's Ed Lavandera explores how influential this big money is for a new report here on CNN. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Wealthy people spend a lot of money to get policy made the way they want it and they get it.

UNKNOWN: Now to sign the law.

UNKNONW: The average voter doesn't know what's happening behind the scenes.

UNKNOWN: A Texas bill targeting LGBTQ+ children --

UNKNOWN: They want to keep it secret.

UNKNOWN: The Texas law banning abortions --

UNKNOWN: They really believe that they've been given a mandate by God.

UNKNOWN: He has set us free from the law.

UNKNOWN: They want to destroy the public school system.

UKNOWN: We are not contending against flesh and blood.

UNKNOWN: The money is all tied back to the same people.

UNKNOWN: Follow the money.

UNKNOWN: I am not comfortable with the transgenders.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: More than 90 percent of your financing came from billionaires.

UNKNOWN: I don't think he would have any comment.

LAVANDERA: We're going to go inside and see if he'll talk to us.

Is it about control?

UNKNOWN: Senator Ted Cruz.

LAVANDERA: And power?

UNKNOWN: It is a Russian-style oligarchy, pure and simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP

ACOSTA: Ed Lavandera joins me now. A Russian-style oligarchy, pure and simple. This looks terrific, Ed. It looks like you uncovered a lot of very important information. Tell us what you discovered.

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, the goal here is really to kind of peel back the layers and give people a glimpse into how the process, the political process, is really working, how elected officials get to the state legislature in Austin. This is a state that has been dominated by Republicans up and down the board for almost 30 years now, Jim, as you well know.

But in the last few election cycles and statewide elections, Democrats have been closing the gap. And so, you've heard for years that Democrats believe Texas is on the verge of turning blue. That hasn't happened, but you would think that the Republican Party, conventional wisdom would tell you that perhaps they would become more moderate. That also hasn't happened.

In the last year, we've seen the state lawmakers pass some of the most conservative legislation the state has ever seen. And there are some reasons for that. And so, we set out to explore what is going on there. And in large part, this is due to the work of two west Texas billionaires that operate totally behind the scenes, very below the radar and that's the way they like it and they are very effective at what they do.

ACOSTA: And Ed, you've covered Texas for a long time. I mean, how well-known is it that these billionaire oil tycoons affect everything from legislation on abortion to transgender rights? It sounds like they run the state.

LAVANDERA: Well, if you work in Texas politics, you know full well who these men are. But if you talk to average voters, as we will show you, they have no idea who Farris Wilkes and Tim Dunn are, and the extent to which the kind of power that they influence in elections all across the state.

So, you know, it's interesting. You would think that two people who have the kind of influence and have wielded the kind of influence that they have in elections for quite some time now, that they would perhaps be household names. But the fact is, they are not. They don't grant interviews. They don't talk much about what they do publicly. They operate behind the scenes.

And as I mentioned, they have done it very effectively for quite some time. And it is one of the main reasons why you have seen such a rightward shift in Texas politics even as the state here, Jim, has become perhaps a little bit more blue, you know. You can open up that can of worms for viewers. So, it really is a dynamic process that is happening right now.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly, if democrats can get back into power in Texas, what are the prospects that they can reform the way the state operates?

[17:54:57]

LAVANDERA: I mean, at this point, Jim, you know, first they have to win a statewide election, which they have not done in almost 30 years. So, you know, any talk of anything like that I think is probably premature. But, you know, that's where we're at right now.

ACOSTA: Alright, Ed Lavandera, big elections coming up in Texas, we'll see about all of that. But the special looks terrific, Ed. Great reporting as always. We appreciate it. Ed Lavandera with the CNN Special Report, "Deep in the Pockets of Texas," airs tonight at 8:00. Be sure to tune in. That's the news. Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. See you back here next Saturday at 3:00 Eastern. Pamela Brown takes over the CNN NEWSROOM live after a quick break. Have a great week everybody. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:59]