Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

More Than 900 Million Under Heat Advisories And Warnings Across The U.S.; Out-Of-Control Oak Fire Burns Thousands Of Acres Near Yosemite; President Biden Continues To Improve From COVID Diagnosis; FBI Probe Findings Raise Chinese Espionage Concerns; Pope Francis In Canada For Weeklong Penitential Pilgrimage; Record Rents Force Many To Crunch Numbers Of Home Ownership; Women Having Miscarriages Could Suffer Under New Laws. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 24, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We have broken over 200 high temperature records just this month. This is madness. And we've got more records today.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's it like in your apartment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hell.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It's like hell?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A major wildfire burns quickly out of control in California.

(On-camera): We're still at zero percent containment.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We're not finished yet.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): I certainly think there's evidence of crimes and I think it goes all the way up to Donald Trump.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The attorney general is committed to following the evidence wherever it may lead and it has led to Donald Trump.

CHENEY: He can never be anywhere close to the Oval Office ever again.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Biden in day three of COVID isolation.

(On-camera): The predominant symptom is a sore throat.

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR: This is a president who has at this moment have a mild respiratory illness. This is really good news. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Dangerous heat and a state of emergency. The Oak Fire explodes near Yosemite National Park in California. In fact it has devoured more than 14,000 acres and is zero percent contained since it erupted Friday. At least 10 buildings are destroyed and thousands more are in danger tonight. The wildfire rages as much of the country deals with extreme heat including triple digits in part of California.

More than 90 million people are under heat alerts. New York has registered at least one heat-related death. Some cities such as Boston and Newark, New Jersey, have seen a mercury hit or exceed 100 degrees.

We have our reporters and meteorologists covering the impact of this heat nationwide and the changing climate. Let's begin this hour in New York with CNN's Polo Sandoval.

Polo, how are coping with this dangerous heat?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, for another day, Pamela, New Yorkers can only do what they can to try to stay as close as possible here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, for the youngest of those roughly 90 million people who are affected by those people in alerts. This is the way they can stay cool right now. But it certainly has been a scorcher next door in New Jersey.

Newark recording a high of 102 degrees today according to the National Weather Service. That's now five straight days in a row that they've seen those triple-digit temperatures. That is the longest heatwave streak that they've experienced since the National Weather Service started record-keeping there since 1931.

It gives you a sense of why this is certainly concerning for so many health officials, not just here in New York City but down the Eastern Seaboard and towards the southern plains as well where you have seen those weather alerts in place. Philadelphia not far from here. They went out and extended their alerts as well to go all the way into this evening, hopefully allowing more of those cooling centers and those swimming pools to be available for the public because that's certainly one of the ways that they're trying to sort of counter the effects of that -- of this extremely hot, scorching weather.

Here in New York City we did get word today of at least one weather- related fatality. It was an individual that some preexisting health conditions. However, Eric Adams, the mayor of the city, saying he checked in with many of the hospitals here in the area here. They have not seen an extremely large amount of people suffering heat-related illness. So that to him, according to Mayor Adams, suggests that people are taking those warnings, staying indoors in the air- conditioning, and if they're going to be out and about, finding different and creative ways to stay cool.

Pamela, back to you. BROWN: All right. Polo Sandoval, thank you so much.

And now back to the Oak Fire burning out of control in East Central California. CNN's Camila Bernal is near the wildfire in Mariposa County.

Camila, what is the situation there right now?

BERNAL: Hey, Pam, we've been here all day watching as plane after plane has dropped that fire retardant trying to stop these flames here behind me. But I just spoke to a firefighter minutes ago who told me, I don't think they've made a lot of progress. And look, this fire has been particularly difficult for these firefighters for a number of reasons.

First, they say, the drought and the weather. They say this time, the afternoon is really the worst time for them because the temperatures are up, the humidity is low, and the winds start to pick up. Then they say the terrain is also difficult. It's very steep, so it's hard to get to some of the areas where the fire is. And finally, they say it's hard to get to the homes in this area because people live in big lots, say, five acres, and it's surrounded by a forest.

So a lot of it is overgrown and dry. So they say they have a really difficult time getting into those homes. There were more evacuation orders issued today. Thousands have left their homes already. But there are some who say they just don't want to leave. They're going to watch the flames and figure out how the situation develops. I talked to someone who's lived here for 20 years, John Mullen, and he says he's not leaving. Here's what he said.

[18:05:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MULLEN, MARICOPA COUNTY RESIDENT: I live on flat ground, I'm on top of the mountain over here, so I don't have a big threat. Like right here, we don't have a big threat. You know, but if it's wind- driven, you know, I don't want to give people the wrong information. If it's wind-driven, you know, you need to move.

BERNAL: But for you, basically you've got to see it real close?

MULLEN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Yes, so he says he's got to see it real close before he actually leaves his property. The fire is still zero percent contained. But authorities say it could move quickly. That's why a lot of these evacuation orders are in place. Now they are being optimistic about one thing and that's resources. They say yesterday they started the day with about 400 people working on this fire. Today there's more than 2,000.

So they do feel like in the next couple of hours, maybe in the next couple of days, we will start to see some progress in terms of containment here in this area -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

And let's take a look at the big picture here. Want to bring in meteorologist Tom Sater. He is here to walk us through all of this.

So, Tom, we saw Boston hit 100 today and break the daily record from 1933.

SATER: Right.

BROWN: Where else did records fall?

SATER: Well, the good news is it's short-lived so this extreme heat and these triple digits on the East Coast are going to probably fall off a little bit tomorrow. But it gets much better Tuesday. But the big picture, Pamela, is this. Look at all the red in North America. This heat dome which has been relentless in the Southern Plains, hottest summer ever for Austin, Houston, San Antonio, list northward in Oklahoma and Arkansas. Little Rock has had 13 days above 100 degrees. But then it slid to the east.

Now I'm going to end this segment by telling you what's going to happen in the Pacific Northwest and the news is not good. Now as Polo mentioned in his report, Newark. 102 degrees, five consecutive days at or above 100 since record started in 1931. There's Boston's record, 1933. LaGuardia tied a record from 2010. Albany, you get up to 97. But here's how it ends, and it always ends this way when you have extreme temperatures like this.

The thunderstorms that this heat is allowed to produce are extremely dangerous. More than your typical pop-up storms. Very damaging winds. We have a severe thunderstorm watch. Now as far as the winds, they knocked out power to a quarter million of people yesterday and last night. Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, some are still without power. So that's the concern.

We still see some warnings now. Severe thunderstorm warnings moving through Scranton. But it's going to get a little worse tomorrow afternoon. So it really spreads the entire Eastern Seaboard. So that'll be the problem. I mean, you're going to like the relief as far as the rainfall but you can do without losing your power. Again, it gets better, 85, Boston, New York, you're down to 85, Tuesday and Wednesday.

These were the advisories today. They've extended the advisory into Philadelphia and Boston for one more day. Look at the heat index values today. St. Louis, 110. Tulsa 108, Little Rock 105. Dallas has had 19 days above 100, their streak continues. The bad news is the Pacific Northwest now, Seattle, you're up to 92 by Tuesday. Only 44 percent of Metro Seattle citizens have air-conditioning. Portland, you're up in the triple digits for some time.

And Pamela, this is not what we want to see. This heat in the Pacific Northwest, not all this week, through the weekend but through most of next week as well. Unbelievable. BROWN: Wow. Yes. That's interesting. Only 42 percent you said in

Seattle have air-conditioning. Wow. Tom Sater, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it. We'll check back in with you.

Meantime, we want to update you on President Biden's condition after his COVID diagnosis last week. His physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, released a letter today saying Mr. Biden continues to improve significantly. His primary symptom is a sore throat. And Dr. O'Connor calls it a good sign that his body is clearing the infection.

Earlier today White House COVID Response coordinator Dr. Ashish Jha confirmed that the president has the BA-5 variant. It is the most prominent strain in the U.S. right now. And Dr. Jha pledged continued transparency about the president's condition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JHA: We think it's really important for the American people to know how well their president is doing which is why we have been so transparent, giving updates several times a day, having people hear from me directly here, directly from his physician. And obviously if he has persistent symptoms, obviously if any of them interfere with his ability to carry out his duties, we will disclose that early enough and with the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: In the meantime, the first lady tested negative again today. Jill Biden is not experiencing any symptoms and remains at the family home in Delaware.

Dr. Saju Mathew Mathiu is a primary care physician and public health specialist.

Hi, Dr. Mathew. So I know there is still a lot that we don't know about long COVID. You have seen many patients who have long COVID. But in your view does the president run added risk for that given his age and history of asthma?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: You know, the straightforward answer, Pamela, would be that yes, given the fact that President Biden is almost 80, he has asthma which as we all know is a lung condition that can increase your risk of severe disease when you have COVID.

[18:10:07]

He also has a heart condition called atrial fibrillation. But I think so far, you know, the personal physician of President Biden has done all the right things. Starting President Biden on Paxlovid early. One big mistake people make is, hey, I'll take Paxlovid with me and only take it if I feel really, really sick. You want to take it in the first day or two to prevent severe disease.

Long COVID, Pamela, is something that I see a lot of. That's why I really worry about the whole lifting of mask mandates. We know that repeat COVID infections after two or three repeat infections, your increased risk of brain dysfunction and heart problems are extremely high.

BROWN: Yes. And that is really scary. And so it sounds like you are of the view about bringing back mask mandates as infection and transmission rates spike again in many communities. But also, I mean, how do you sort of balance that with the fact that we keep hearing this virus is going to be around forever, we're going to continue to see variants and so forth and so on? I mean, how do you sort of balance the two?

MATHEW: You know, I've come to a really good balance, Pamela. I mean, so far, touch wood, I have not had COVID yet. There is an increased chance that I might get it. I'm living my life, I'm going to Paris tomorrow on vacation, I'm going to wear my KN-95 on the plane as much as I can, unless, you know, when I eat or drink.

But I'm living my life. My parents are living their lives. But this is what I tell people. Listen, if you get COVID after doing every single thing you possibly can to avoid it, that's one thing. But just living your life callously, not wearing a mask, walking into a train station or a coffee shop and not wearing a mask, I think all of that really increasing your risk.

I know that moving forward my chance is less and less to stay away from COVID but so far I have, and even if I get it, I'm still going to try to not get that second infection.

BROWN: All right. I want to switch to monkeypox. The World Health Organization has declared a global health emergency with more than 16,000 cases in 74 countries. The U.S. is currently reporting nearly 3,000 cases including two in children. But monkeypox hasn't been declared a public health emergency here.

What is the threshold for making that call and what should we make of that?

MATHEW: I'll be honest with you, Pamela, I think we should. I think we should go ahead and declare this a public health emergency. Listen, we have a lot of mistakes that we can learn from, from the way we dealt with COVID-19. We were always behind. And now if you think about it, even though it's specific populations largely that are getting infected, it has already spilled over into women and children.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. We are not really counting a lot of the cases because there's been a bottleneck with testing. In my field of work as a primary care doctor, we just got an e-mail last week, Pamela, saying, hey, listen, if you see a rash, this is the swab you need to use and this is the laboratory you need to send it to. That's good information, but a lot of primary care doctors are uncomfortable with the diagnosis, and I think that every single day that we don't put money and resources into this, this could be an infection that could take a strong hold in America and unfortunately it could be endemic.

BROWN: Just quickly, after 2 1/2 years of COVID fatigue, do you think the infrastructure and just the public will exist for another global health emergency?

MATHEW: Again, the honest answer would be no. I mean, I want to be realistic while I'm sitting here talking to you in front of the world, Pamela, that people are absolutely tired. We are in complete denial. But just like I tweeted five minutes before your show, I still think that the bottom line is, as a psychiatrist would say, we have to accept where we are. We are dealing really with two dangerous viruses.

We meet the viruses where they are. We be careful, try to get the vaccines if you're high risk, if you're a man having sex with other men, definitely know your risks. And let's deal with it. We do have therapies in both pandemics. COVID-19 -- sorry, the monkeypox is not a pandemic, but we do have treatments for both viruses. So we're in a very different stage today than we were a few years ago.

BROWN: Yes, And that's an important point.

Dr. Saju Mathew, thank you and have a great time in Paris.

MATHEW: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, we have a lot to cover tonight in the CNN NEWSROOM. Up next, a CNN exclusive, the FBI says certain Chinese telecommunication equipment could disrupt U.S. nuclear arsenal communications. We're going to break it down for you, tell you what that means.

Plus, to rent or to buy. The cost of getting that first home is getting more and more out of reach for some people. So what can you do?

[18:15:07]

And Arizona's primary vote hasn't even happened yet but one candidate is already stoking election fears. So how will the state's top elections official fight back against these baseless claims? I'm going to ask her, coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Exclusive reporting from CNN. An FBI investigation determined that Chinese tech giant Huawei has equipment in the United States that could disrupt highly restricted Defense Department communications, and that includes airwaves used by U.S. Strategic Command which oversees the nuclear arsenal.

Joining me now are CNN's Katie Bo Lillis and CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.

So, Katie Bo, I want to bring you in first. I mean, you have been working on this exclusive reporting for many months. What did the FBI find that has them so concerned?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so this all dates back into an investigation, a counterintelligence investigation that began at least under Obama and was ultimately briefed up to the Trump White House in 2019. [18:20:08]

The FBI knew that small, rural telecommunications providers in the Midwest were using Chinese made Huawei equipment on top of their cell towers in places like Colorado and Nebraska, where there are lots of sensitive military assets to include nuclear silos.

Now companies say that they were using this equipment because it's cheap, because it's reliable. What the FBI was able to determine in the course of their investigation was that the equipment had the capability to recognize, intercept and potentially disrupt restricted Defense Department communications, potentially offering China a really dangerous window into the command and control for America's nuclear architecture.

In addition to that, the FBI also realized in the course of this investigation that the leading regional provider Viaero had posted weather and traffic cameras on top of many of its towers in the region, that it was live streaming as a public service, which of course is great, right, if you want to see if you're getting into a traffic jam on your way to work. But for counterintelligence officials of course this was hugely concerning because they realized that China or any other nation state could be monitoring those live streams and would be able to track the patterns of sensitive military movements around the region.

So the combination of these two things was profoundly disturbing to counterintelligence officials. As one official familiar with the investigation described it to us, this goes into the BFD category.

BROWN: Yes. BFD. Wow. So, Juliette, then what are your primary concerns here?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this has been a long-term challenge. We call this technology dual use technology. In other words, it has totally benign purposes, weather, climate, satellite, visuals, our GPS. But it also can have nefarious. And so one of the challenges for both the FBI and the Commerce Department is how do you figure out what is being used for innocent or benign purposes and then what's being used for the bad purposes.

That's the dual use challenge. And there's an entire regulatory framework in the security arena that covers it. Right now these smaller telecommunications companies are supposed to essentially rip and replace the technology, the Chinese technology, out. That's quite expensive. The money is not there. And it's been a very slow process. In the meanwhile, we know that the Commerce Department has started an investigation into some of these larger counterintelligence and technology investigations in terms of whether this technology is being used for nefarious or spy purposes.

That Commerce Department and FBI investigation are ongoing. What we do know from this great reporting is that the FBI is opening up a counterintelligence investigation against China once every 12 hours right now. That's how pervasive this concern is. BROWN: And let's listen to the FBI director Christopher Wray talk

about just that. He spoke to my colleague Evan Perez recently, July 8th, about his concern with these foreign-backed companies using our telecommunications infrastructure. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We're concerned about allowing any company that is beholden to a nation state that doesn't adhere to and share our values, giving that company the ability to burrow into our telecommunications infrastructure. And I will point you and the public to our superseding indictment of the company, of Huawei for RICO, for being a racketeering enterprise. And that indictment lays out a pattern of essentially serial intellectual property theft.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So the FBI and the Justice Department are clearly concerned with Huawei and have been for a while. So then that raises the question, Katie Bo, how did Huawei gaining such a strong foothold in America's heartland?

LILLIS: Well, Pamela, these companies started signing contracts with Huawei to be vendors for their routers and sort of other equipment on top of these cell towers, many of these company CEOs have said, you know, look, this was a reliable alternative to more expensive sort of Western-made components. This was -- and it was cheap, it was affordable for them. And we spoke to one CEO of a sort of leading regional provider Viaero who said, you know, I had no idea that there were any national security concerns with this equipment when I was originally signing the contract. You know, this was news to them.

I think the bigger question is, as Juliette alludes to, is what happens now?

BROWN: Right.

LILLIS: The FCC in 2019 passed a rule that mandated that these companies rip and replace their Chinese-made equipment, Huawei's ETE off of their towers. The problem is that Congress has appropriated about $2 billion to do this. That's about $3 billion short of what it's actually going to cost these companies to get the job done.

[18:25:02]

And so here we are, three years after the FBI briefed the White House on the findings of this investigation, and three years after the FCC passed its rule, and nobody has even started removing this equipment yet.

BROWN: So that equipment is still there, Juliette, how concerning is that? And do you think that China has been able to get any data from this equipment?

KAYYEM: That we don't know. I mean, we have to assume that this is part of a long term strategic effort by China to, as FBI Director Wray said, to burrow into our critical infrastructure. So I compare this to Russia, for Homeland Security purposes I compare this to Russia which tends to be sort of chaotic, you know, sort of throw a bunch of things out there and see what happens in particular in the sort of, you know, social disruption space.

China takes the long view, which is, can they burrow themselves into our critical infrastructure in ways that seem benign, once again, this is dual use technology, and in ways in which it's much harder to get them out of our systems, because it was as, you know, as this CEO said, it was perfectly lawful at the time. Huawei was not on a black list when it started to infiltrate or started to sell to places like in the Midwest and other parts of America.

And so to un-burrow it takes a lot of time. And that also assumes that we have alternatives. That is the challenge here. This is a global economy. You know, this is technology, this is a world that also is so integrated in terms of, you know, U.S.-China partnerships, that it would be very hard to just simply say we're not going to use anything that comes from China. It would be ridiculous and overbroad.

So it's that sort of -- the challenge is sort of that chiseling aspect of this, how do you get these potential counterintelligence, intelligence and espionage threats out of our systems without just simply saying we're going to close our markets to China, which would hurt us as much as it hurts China.

BROWN: All right, Juliette, Katie Bo, thank you so much for both of you.

And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. Pope Francis begins a weeklong visit to Canada and he's calling it the trip in the spirit of penance. We're going to explain why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:31:38]

BROWN: One of the two American citizens who recently died in Ukraine's Donbas region has been identified as Luke Lucyszyn. His mother tells CNN the State Department informed her of his death.

And also today, Russia admitted to attacking the key Black Sea port in Odessa on Saturday just a day after Moscow and Kyiv reached an agreement to allow grain exports. A Russian military official said missiles were used to destroy military infrastructure. Moscow now says both Russian and Turkish vessels will escort ships carrying grain supplies from Ukraine while the U.S. is working on an alternate plan to get food exports out of that country.

And in Canada, a visit of reconciliation from Pope Francis. He is seeking to atone for the historical abuse of indigenous children at church-run residential schools. It has been reported that more than 4,000 kids died from neglect or abuse in these schools in addition to what's being called cultural genocide as the church stripped away identity and spiritual values.

CNN's Paula Newton is in Edmonton. So, Paula, tell us more about this important trip.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, you know, we've seen him for less than an hour and already the video was so striking, Pamela, I have to tell you. This is a Pope who is not in the best of health, he is 85, he is infirm, having those mobility issues. And yet he is coming here to Canadian soil after having already canceled other trips this year.

This is what he calls atonement, right. He calls it his journey of penance. He was asked, other Popes have been asked to come here, too, and make this apology for what as you just outlined is really appalling, appalling conditions that these children who were ripped away from their families, were put in these residential homes, they were abused emotionally, physically, sexually.

And more than that, Pamela, what has happened here is it has led to what we call intergenerational trauma. The survivors tell us they just never knew in their life how to raise their own families, how to behave, how to love, and were taught to be ashamed, really, for their own culture and their own background.

A lot of those schools, the vast majority in fact, Pamela, were run by the Catholic Church. And think about that, the abuse happened at the hands of priests, nuns, and school staff.

I want to show you now that he is going to be making quite a cross- country trek for a man who, as I said, is 85. He's arrived today, he's resting now. The big marquee moment of this trip will be tomorrow when he goes just a little bit outside of Edmonton and goes in fact to an indigenous community where he will speak that apology. He's already said it in Rome a few months ago but on Canadian soil, he will end up doing that.

And, you know, Pamela, before he left, again, he repeated in a tweet, saying please join me in prayer. And he established in his tweet really saying that, look, this is a journey of penance, and he means that with all sincerity. I think the issue is, Pamela, is how survivors are taking this right now. Some of them are gratified but so many of them that we've spoken to have a lot of ambivalence about him coming here and really want the Catholic Church to do more with atonement and a lot of that comes from financial settlements but also to let go of the impunity with which the Catholic Church has operated here in this country for so many decades.

BROWN: All right. Paula Newton, thank you so much for that report there in Alberta.

Well, the cost of a mortgage keeps ticking higher. Is the smart money right now on renting or buying a home?

[18:35:04]

The answer might depend on where you live. An expert is going to walk us through the math, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Well, this week the Federal Reserve is expected to hike its key interest rate by a robust three-quarters of a percentage point. And that will drive up mortgage rates among other things and it's going to add to the agonizing question tormenting millions of Americans, is it smarter to rent or buy right now?

Throw this into the equation. Rent prices surged to a record high in June, just under $1900 a month for housing. That's 16 straight months of record highs according to Realtor.com. And Danielle Hale is the Web site's chief economist. She's crunched the numbers in cities across the country.

Hi, Danielle. So with higher mortgage rates cooling off the housing market, how long should we expect home prices to be sky high?

DANIELLE HALE, CHIEF ECONOMIST, REALTOR.COM: Well, it's taken 10 years for them to get to these high prices, using 10 consecutive years of year over year gains.

[18:40:06]

This is a long time building. I think they are likely to remain high, even though mortgage rates are very clearly cooling off demand because we have a decade's worth of underbuilding in the housing market. So it's going to take a lot of demand cooling for us to get back to a place of balance where we might start to see something change with regard to the high price level.

BROWN: All right. So let's walk through the map that we have. First, where is it better to rent versus home buy?

HALE: So it's better to rent, as in your monthly costs are going to be lower as a renter than as a home buyer in tech markets, in blooming sunbelt markets, and in some of the largest cities in the country, so think Austin, Houston, Phoenix, Arizona, New York City, L.A., San Francisco, Seattle. These really big, well-established markets that people want to be in that have great job opportunities, those are where we find the monthly costs are lower for renting than for buying a starter home.

BROWN: And how about to buy?

HALE: Buying tends to be a little bit less expensive if you're in the Midwest or the south. It's where starter home prices are very affordable. They're relatively abundant, somewhat more abundant than the rental opportunities, so areas like Pittsburgh, Birmingham, Alabama, St. Louis, Missouri, stretching all the way over to Baltimore, Louisville, Virginia Beach, Virginia, and even into the Ohio area, Cincinnati, Kansas City and Indianapolis, Indiana.

BROWN: All right. So here is the combined map. Very generally in the snapshot. It makes sense to buy in the Central U.S. and better to rent in the northeast and out west. Are record rent prices the new normal or will they come down with inflation?

HALE: Well, the good news for renters is that builders have really been focused on multifamily construction. And those are units that are likely to become rentals. And so that should help increase rental supply, which will eventually help lessen the pressure that is on rental prices right now. Right now, however, vacancy rates are really low. That means there aren't a lot of units available for rent.

It means renters are out there competing instead of landlords competing for renters. And that means landlords have some pricing power. And because they're facing inflation, seeing their costs go up, that means that they're able to push those cost increases onto renters and rents are rising.

BROWN: Yes, I read today something like 5 percent vacancy rate in rental buildings. So for those trying to decide whether to keep renting or try and buy that first home, what advice would you give them?

HALE: I think the number one question to think about is how long you want to be in the home. The longer you're going to be in your home, the more financial sense it's going to make to buy, because you've got some big upfront costs as a buyer but they tend to spread out over the long run. And if you're buying with a fixed rate mortgage, your mortgage, the bulk of your mortgage costs will actually stay the same so you'll see some significant savings rack up over time.

In order to figure out what that break-even point is, you can go to Realtor.com, we've got a great rent-versus-buy calculator on there and you can put your numbers in and see how long you need to be in a home in order for buying to make more sense than renting.

BROWN: All right.

HALE: The shorter you're going to be there, the more likely renting makes sense.

BROWN: All right. So I got to ask you before we let you go. Has the peak for selling your home passed? Because there was this frenzy, right, for people trying to sell their homes at record high rates. Has that peak passed? And if so, if someone wants -- if they felt they need more space in their home is it better to renovate or is it better to try to buy another home?

HALE: That is a great question. So it really depends. I would say the peak of the frenzy of the urgency of the I'm going to put my home up for sale and it's going to be gone tomorrow, I think that has passed. But we know that prices are still high, there are still plenty of buyers out there. It might take a little bit longer to sell your home but it is very possible to sell your home right now.

Now as far as whether it's better to move or remodel, that depends. If you can find a home that's a good fit, that may be the easier option. But if you've locked in a really low mortgage rate and you want to keep that and you just want to make some relatively minor changes, you can take on a home equity loan, that small portion of your debt will be at a higher rate and that might be a way to make that financing possible.

BROWN: All right. Fascinating conversation, I learned a lot from this.

Danielle Hale, thank you so much.

HALE: Absolutely.

BROWN: Well, tonight an all new episode of "PATAGONIA: LIFE ON THE EDGE OF THE WORLD." It airs at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:57]

BROWN: As more states move to ban abortion, potentially life- threatening complications are emerging. In Texas, some women who have miscarriages say doctors are denying the care they need because of the strict antiabortion law passed last year.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen shares one woman's story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Marlena Stell and A.B. DeSilva have always wanted a little brother or sister for their daughter Adelina. Instead what they got was a nightmare because of a Texas antiabortion law.

MARLENA STELL, WAS REFUSED MISCARRIAGE TREATMENT: I get so angry that I was treated this way because of laws that were passed that by men who have never been pregnant and never will be.

COHEN: Stell's nightmare started out as a dream come true. After months of trying, she became pregnant late last summer.

STELL: We were super excited because we didn't think I could get pregnant.

COHEN: An ultrasound at seven-and-a-half weeks showed all was well. But at an ultrasound two weeks later --

STELL: She said there is no heartbeat, there is no viable pregnancy.

[18:50:03]

COHEN: Stell asked her doctor for a standard treatment, a surgery to remove the fetal remains. She says her doctor refused. That surgery, commonly known as a D and C, is the same procedure used to abort a living fetus.

STELL: She said, well, because of the new law that's passed, you're going to have to get another ultrasound for me to be able to even do anything for you.

COHEN: Overwhelmed emotionally and physically --

STELL: The pain would get so severe it would be hard to walk. COHEN: -- she went to get a second invasive ultrasound at an imaging

center, describing it later in a YouTube video.

STELL: Someone shoves a wand in my sensitive area and tells me, hey, you lost your baby again. I shouldn't have to go through that twice.

COHEN (on-camera): So you had to hear it twice that you lost a baby.

STELL: It's gut wrenching. I'm sorry.

COHEN: That's OK.

STELL: Because you already know what you're going to see. It's just like seeing it twice, being told you're not going to be a mom.

COHEN: Even after that second ultrasound, would your obstetrician give you the surgical procedure?

STELL: No. No.

COHEN (voice-over): Stell had to go get yet another ultrasound showing her dead fetus.

(On-camera): So you were walking around, carrying a dead fetus?

STELL: And just emotionally carrying it around and just knowing that there's nothing you can do, it just feels very -- it's like I can't grieve or move past it because I'm just walking around carrying it.

COHEN (voice-over): Dr. Lillian Schapiro has been an OB-GYN in Atlanta for more than 30 years.

(On-camera): When a woman is walking around with a dead fetus for weeks because she can't get a surgical procedure, what's the danger to her?

DR. LILLIAN SCHAPIRO, OBSTETRICIAN-GYNECOLOGIST IN ATLANTA: She can develop an infection that can make her sterile and never able to have children again.

COHEN (voice-over): Or even worse.

SCHAPIRO: When the baby dies inside, the baby starts to release parts of its tissue. It can get into the mother's blood supply. It can cause organ failure. It can cause death.

COHEN: In Texas and some other states, a doctor who does the right thing and surgically removes a dead fetus could be vulnerable to an expensive lawsuit.

STEPHEN VLADECK, LAW PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: Any private citizen can walk into court and say I think Dr. Smith performed an abortion.

COHEN: And citizens are incentivized to bring such cases. They can win more than $10,000. And even when doctors can prove the fetus was dead, the doctor still has to be responsible for their own legal fees.

VLADECK: They're going to lose even though they win. And that's the chilling effect. They face this specter of potentially endless, ruinous litigation that they just can't stop, they can't avoid, they can't preempt.

COHEN: As I spoke with Stell, I thought back to how between my second and third children, I had a miscarriage that was handled very differently.

(On-camera): They saw there was no heartbeat. They did a D and C. It allowed me to move on quickly and get pregnant again. And then I got pregnant again, too.

SCHAPIRO: Right, and that's great. And that is the story that we want to hear from people.

COHEN (voice-over): Stell was not so lucky. She did finally manage to find a doctor to perform her D and C but it took two weeks. She worries the nightmare could happen to her again.

(On-camera): Are you trying to get pregnant again?

STELL: No.

COHEN: Why not?

STELL: I'm worried about getting infected, have something happen to me, and then my daughter is left without her mom.

COHEN (voice-over): Now they're contemplating moving away from Texas, away from their extended family, just so they can try to get pregnant again.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Conroe, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: What a story. Elizabeth, thank you for that

Well, the push to codify same-sex marriage into law hits close to home for millions of Americans including Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. He has a message for Republicans who oppose it and the senator who called the vote a waste of time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: If he's got time to fight against Disney I don't know why he wouldn't have time to help safeguard marriages like mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:44] BROWN: The Senate is edging closer to codifying same-sex and interracial marriage protections into federal law but there still isn't enough Republican support to get the 60 votes needed. Today Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg invoked his marriage when calling on GOP lawmakers to act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUTTIGIEG: Our marriage deserves to be treated equally. And I don't know why this would be hard for a senator or a congressman. I don't understand how such a majority of House Republicans voted no on our marriage, as recently as Tuesday hours after I was in a room with lot of them talking about transportation policy, having what I thought were perfectly normal conversations with many of them on that subject, only for them to go around the corner and say that my marriage doesn't deserve to continue.

If they don't want to spend a lot of time on this, they can vote yes and move on, and that would be really reassuring for a lot of families around America including mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: He also fired back at Florida Senator Marco Rubio who called the vote a, quote, "stupid waste of time." Buttigieg saying, quote, "He's got time to fight against Disney. I don't know why he wouldn't have time to help safeguard marriages like mine."

And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We have broken over 200 high temperature records just this month. This is madness.