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GOP Looks for New 2024 Candidates Amid Growing Fears of Trump Run; Oak Fire in California Tears Through 16,000-Plus Acres; Food Banks Face Skyrocketing Demand Amid Inflation. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 25, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. So glad you're with me today. I'm Poppy Harlow.

And we are following several major stories. First, new CNN reporting growing worries among Republicans over the January 6th committee's damning revelations about former President Trump has many in the party now openly cheering for other Republicans to jump in the 2024 race for the White House, that's even if Trump announces he will run. Also, anxiety building in the party in circles about the committee's new hearings in September and what impact they could have on the midterms, we'll have more on that in a moment.

Meanwhile, Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney says a subpoena for Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, is not off the table. All of this as today, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp is scheduled to testify by video before the Fulton County grand jury investigating whether Trump and allies illegally tried to interfere in the 2020 general election there.

We are covering all of the angles. Let's begin with my colleague, Melanie Zanona, on Capitol Hill. You have new reporting, Melanie, on Republicans pushing for other Republicans to jump into the 2024 race, notably even if former President Trump announces a run.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that's exactly right, Poppy. Republicans say they want options in 2024. John Thune, a member of leadership, says he thinks there will be other attractive candidates besides Trump. Dan Crenshaw, a conservative House member, says he hopes there's a competitive primary in 2024, and that he does not think Trump is going to be the automatic frontrunner just because he decides to jump in. And a Republican study committee, which is the largest conservative caucus on Capitol Hill, hosted former Vice President Mike Pence for a meeting last week, where they encouraged him to run and thanked him for his actions on January 6th.

Now, if Trump does run and becomes the nominee, most Republicans are going to fall in line. But, Poppy, I got to tell you, there is a light of anxiousness right now inside the GOP about Trump becoming their standard bearer once again. And one of the huge reasons for that are these January 6th select committee hearings that have been a lot more damaging than some of Trump's own allies even anticipated.

And the committee is promising more hearings ahead in September. Committee members say they're going to use the next month to pursue new leads, talk to new witnesses, collect more evidence. And one of the bug outstanding issues here is the Secret Service missing text messages. The committee is still trying to get to the bottom of that. And another big, outstanding issue is whether to subpoena Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who was emailing Trump officials about overturning the election.

Take a listen to what Liz Cheney, the vice chair of the select committee, told our Jake Tapper about that.

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REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We certainly hope that she will agree to come in voluntarily, but the committee is fully prepared to contemplate a subpoena if she does not. It's very important for us to speak to her, and as I said, I hope she will agree to do so voluntarily. But I'm sure we will contemplate a subpoena if she won't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: So, it is shaping up to be a busy month for the January 6th select committee, with no signs of slowing down, Poppy.

HARLOW: Melanie, thanks for the reporting. We appreciate it.

Well, today, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp will deliver a sworn, recorded statement to the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. This is in their investigation into former President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Our Kara Scannell joins me now. So, to-date, Governor Kemp is the highest profile Georgia official to be subpoenaed to testify before this grand jury. What more are you learning? And can you explain the difference for folks between sort of a live witness before a grand jury and then this recorded statement?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy. So, Governor Kemp is the highest profile person to-date to testify before this garage. And what he's going to do today is record testimony that the prosecutors will play in some future data before the grand jury. The prosecutor said that they did this to accommodate the governor's schedule. So, this will be played at some point.

[10:05:00]

And the reason why Kemp is of interest is that he's one of the top Georgia officials that former President Trump reached out to after the 2020 election. He was trying to pressure Kemp to convene a special session to convince the state legislature to overthrow Biden's victory. Trump also wanted Kemp to author an audit absentee ballots, to check their signatures. Kemp, a Republican, declined to do both of those. Now, this comes as this investigation is really ramping up. Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has been ordered by a judge to testify before this grand jury next month. Today in court, Republican Lawmaker Jody Hice is going to be in court trying to challenge and quash a subpoena for his testimony. And also this week, at least 12 of those fake electors are scheduled to testify before the special grand jury.

And just a reminder, this special grand jury is going to make a recommendation of whether the district attorney, Fani Willis, should seek an indictment of former President Trump or anyone else if they think they have enough evidence. So, we're still a few steps away from that ultimate decision being made. Poppy?

HARLOW: Okay. Thanks, Kara Scannell, very much for the reporting.

Let's talk about all these headlines with former Federal Prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers and Andra Gillespie, Associate Professor of Political Science at Emory University. It's great to have you both.

Jennifer Rodgers, let me begin with you. When we look today at Kemp's recorded testimony and then what will be played for the grand jury at some point in time, what is the key thing you believe that prosecutors are looking for him to answer and that this grand jury will assess as it pertains the Kemp?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the grand jury wants to know the communications back and forth, what did Trump say to Kemp and vice versa. Because, of course, we have the recorded call with Brad Raffensperger, which is so blockbuster, right? I mean, Trump is effectively saying, I need this exact number of votes, I want you to find them for me. Is that similar to what he said to Kemp? He asked for the legislation to effectively overturn the results of the election. Is that what he said? How exactly did that wording go and how much does that explain to us about Trump's state of mind as he was pushing for these actions in Georgia?

So, that is really what they are going to want to get at. And, unfortunately, we don't have a recording the way we did with Raffensperger. That would be the best evidence. But Governor Kemp telling the grand jury exactly what Trump asked for in Trump's words is the next best evidence.

HARLOW: So, Andra, let me read you the way The New York Times put it this weekend in their deep dive into this probe that I just thought was so telling in terms of how expansive Fani Willis' probe has been and at times talks about how it assembles quite a cast of characters here.

A United States senator, a congressman, a local Cadillac dealer, a high school economics dealer, the chair of the state Republican Party in Georgia, the Republican candidate for lieutenant governor in Georgia, six lawyers aiding Mr. Trump, including former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the president himself and a woman who identifies herself as a former publicist for Kanye West.

I just think it goes to how broad this has become, and I wonder what your take is.

ANDRA GILLESPIE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Well, I just see this as being exhaustive. When I read the subpoena, I read it as an academic who does work in mixed methodology. And so data for me is evidence for the D.A.'s office. And when you are trying to piece a story together, you may interview people, but primary documents are also really important. And that subpoena request was basically a document request for every type of written, digital, or audio piece of evidence that could possibly piece the story together. They'll ask Governor Kemp to provide some context, but the data itself speaks for itself.

And so I think that this is actually going to be a really comprehensive way of making sure that they understand exactly how all of the pieces fit together and for them to be able to create a compelling story for indictment.

HARLOW: In that reporting by The Times, Jennifer, there is a big section on racketeering because the D.A., Ms. Willis, told The Times that racketeering charges could be in play. And then The Times went to look at sort of her history of prosecution, and she's had a lot of past success in prosecuting high-profile folks on racketeering charges. What do you make of that as a potential charge for former President Trump and what would it take to prove?

RODGERS: Well, I think racketeering is interesting, because in states, it can be much more expansive and easier to charge than it is federally. Federally, there's no way racketeering would ever be charged here. It's just too limited in terms of the predicate acts you have to prove. But in Georgia, you can use many more underlying predicate acts to prove a racketeering enterprise, and, apparently, Ms. Willis has done that throughout her career.

So, I expect that these reporters are right, that she's looking to do that. I think she's even mentioned that as a possibility. And on Georgia, you have a lot of things to choose from, including these underlying solicitation to interfere with an election, some of these other underlying illegal charges that can be used if you have more than one of them in a pattern to show a racketeering enterprise.

[10:10:04]

So, I suspect that is what she will be looking to do.

HARLOW: We also, Andra, saw a significant change in this investigation in Georgia last week when 16 folks involved in the, quote/unquote, fake electors plot from Georgia went from being witnesses in this probe to potential targets, and they received those target letters. And they had already informed the head of Georgia's Republican Party that he's a target and a number of the other folks that I mentioned.

I just wonder how significant that is in your assessment of that in this state, that all of those folks, as it pertains to potential future charges, went from being their witnesses to potential targets? GILLESPIE: Yes. Well, I see this in two ways. So, one, there is the act of trying to create this fake electors plot, which fraudulent in and of itself. It does raise question of illegality that I think Jennifer speak to. But I think Jennifer can also speak to the fact that they may be using this target as a means to elicit more information. So, perhaps some of these people involved in the scheme may actually be willing to turn evidence and cop a plea deal.

So, I just see this as a way of, one, being transparent, letting people know kind of here is where the situation is, and then leveraging that for their own benefit to gain additional evidence.

HARLOW: And, Jennifer, quickly, there are high-profile folks in this probe who are trying to argue against having to testify because of the speech and debate clause. So, for example, former Congressman Jody Hice, Lindsey Graham, basically saying, what we were doing around the election was in our legislative role, in our job, and, therefore, you can't get us to talk about it in this respect. Are they going to have success arguing those grounds?

RODGERS: I suspect not. I mean, when you look at whether they were acting as a legislator or a Trump campaign surrogate, it's going to depend on the communications themselves. But I doubt that a judge is going to find that they were acting as someone just interested in overseeing elections, generally speaking, and not as a Trump campaign surrogate, if they're asking for votes, asking for audits, that sort of thing.

HARLOW: Okay. Jennifer Rodgers, Andra Gillepsie, thanks very much.

Well, this just in to CNN. We've learned that Senator Joe Manchin has tested positive for COVID-19. He said in a tweet this morning, this morning, I tested positive for COVID-19. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted and experiencing mild symptoms. I will isolate. I will follow CDC guidelines as I continue to work remotely to serve West Virginians. We hope he's doing okay. It sounds like it, wish him a fast recovery. We'll bring you any updates as we get them.

Up next, as growing wildfire in California has forced thousands of people to evacuate, we will be joined by the Cal Fire Battalion chief about efforts to contain the flames.

Plus, right now, the pope is in Canada apologizes for the church's abuse of indigenous children.

And relief is on the way this week for some Americans suffering in this heat. All those stories and more, ahead this hour.

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HARLOW: This morning, a huge wildfire is raging in Central California. It's grown again. The oak fire has now scorched more than 16,000 acres near Yosemite National Park since it started on Friday. Several structures have been destroyed, damaged, homes destroyed. Officials say, we have an update from last hour, this fire is now 10 percent contained, that is some progress.

I want to bring in Cal Fire Battalion Chief Jon Heggie to talk about it. He joins us on the phone. Chief Heggie, thank you for your time.

That is an improvement from what we heard from our reporter on the ground an hour ago, 10 percent containment, but you still got 90 percent to go here. How challenging are the circumstances right now?

CHIEF JON HEGGIE, CAL FIRE BATTALION: Yes, absolutely. 10 percent gain is a gain, and we'll take that. You know, it's very challenging. What we have seen on this fire is very indicative of what we have seen in fires throughout California and the west over the last few years. These fires are burning with just such a veracity and intensity. It makes it extremely challenging and extremely dangerous for both the public and for firefighters.

HARLOW: I was reading some reporting this morning, some of our CNN reporting of folks, you know, one young man talking about his parents having to flee their home with just the shirts on their back. And that made me want to know how quickly this is moving if folks -- some folks at least seem to not even have enough notice to evacuate ahead of time.

HEGGIE (VOICE OVER): Yes. So, the fire behavior that we're seeing on this incident is really unprecedented. It's moving extremely fast and the reaction time to get people out is limited, because that fire is moving so fast. So, we're doing our best to notify them and working with our cooperators, our law enforcement, to get those evacuation notices out. But the reality is it's moving so quickly, it's not giving people a lot of time, and they sometimes are just going to have to evacuate with the shirts on their back, but their life safety is obviously the most important thing. HARLOW: Of course, that's paramount. Your teams there on the ground

are also battling these horribly high temperatures. I mean, you've got temperatures set to be in the 90s today intensifying through the week. We saw how our hot weather is pushing out west. What does that do to your ability to get this under control?

HEGGIE (VOICE OVER): You know, we are what I consider industrial athletes. We're used to working in hot temperatures. Usually, we have a good understanding of the weather, and we're prepared for it. But it does make it challenging.

[10:20:00]

It's hard to work in this extremely physical job when it's hot out. But we take measurements to make sure everyone is hydrated, that they're getting proper nutrition and then the best amount of rest that we can provide.

HARLOW: This comes in the midst of a ten-year drought and the impact of climate change on the environment. And these fires seem to be happening more often and becoming more intense. What is the impact of climate change on what you guys are battling today and so much in recent years? HEGGIE (VOICE OVER): Yes. So, what I can tell you is this is a direct result of what is climate change. You can't have a ten-year drought in California and expect things to be the same. And we are now paying the price for that ten-year drought and that climate change. So, a lot of dead fuel throughout California that's not coming back, no matter how much rain we have, is available to burn. And that dead fuel that is result from that climate change and that drought is what's driving what we are calling mega fires. These are the fires that, you know, in years past had never grown in this rate or this size, now it's common for us. And that's directly correlated to the amount of dead fuel that's available.

And what this fire burning specifically is where we had a lot of the (INAUDIBLE) devastation. So, a lot of the large timbers were destroyed in this area, and all that is now dead logs and dead trees that are available to burn.

HARLOW: Cal Fire Battalion Chief John Heggie, thank you very much for your time, but, really, for what your teams are doing on the ground.

HEGGIE (voice over): Yes, we'll keep fighting. And just one thing I can add is that this is a problem for everyone in California. This is a society problem, and we're approaching and doing as best we can with prevention and we're fuel reduction projects, but everyone in California has to be aware and have some responsibility. HARLOW: Thank you very much, Chief.

Well, Right now, we talked about those high temperatures. Right now, you have got more than 60 million Americans under heat alert this morning. Temperatures in the northeast expected to cool off a little bit later today after several cities saw record-breaking heat over the weekend.

Our Polo Sandoval is live in New York City, where it's going to reach over at 90 degrees again today before cooling off. And there was at least one life lost as a result of the heat over the weekend.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was. According to the Medical Examiner's Office here, Poppy, in New York City, confirming that one individual who had preexisting health conditions did not survive that heat wave here in New York City, but it really speaks to the dangers that we experienced all weekend long.

Now, I have to tell you, having experienced that oppressive heat all weekend, there is certainly a light at the end of this tunnel here. We're kind of feeling it right now with no longer the potential of any record-breaking heat.

Look at the numbers that we saw though just yesterday next door in Newark, 102 degrees, Poppy. That made it five straight days of triple- digit temperature, that, Newark International Airport. That is the longest stint of temperatures over 100 degrees since it began, taking records there at that particular observation post in the 1930s. So, it certainly speaks to what we experienced.

And then just go down the board when you look at we saw in Boston, 100 degrees, 99 in Philadelphia, here at New York's La Guardia, 98. And, again, we do expect to see temperatures above 90 degrees. We'll speak to that constant stint that we have experienced the last seven days.

But, look, when you hear from meteorologists, look at the forecast, there's no longer the potential of any record-breaking heat that will certainly be met with by many people here in the northeast. But it's important to remember that with the high humidity levels today and the potential for severe storms, authorities are still recommending people that continue to be careful today and possibly into tomorrow.

HARLOW: Of course. Polo, thank you very much for the reporting, glad some relief is coming.

Up next, we're going to be joined by the secretary of Health and Human Services to talk about the spread of monkeypox and if the U.S. will declare it a public health emergency.

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HARLOW: So, long lines are back at food banks across the United States. Right now, the pandemic created an unprecedented need among families. And now, they're hit with more setbacks because inflation is making everything, your food, your rent, your medication, gas more expensive.

Gabe Cohen reports on food banks facing critical shortages again.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Jean Vaccarino has turned to food banks after months of choosing between groceries and her heart medicine.

JEAN VACCARINO, USES FOOD BANK: I would probably be homeless by next year because the rent has tripled.

COHEN: She said she's been living on disability for the past few years, making it harder to make ends meet.

VACCARINO: I can't buy clothes. I can't buy for my grandchildren. I can't buy anything, you know? It's day-to-day. And I just hope and pray for the best.

COHEN: With rising inflation, the average American is spending nearly $500 more per month, including $78 more on food, toughest for those living paycheck to paycheck. In a June poll, 60 percent of lower income households said grocery prices were a major problem.

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So, millions are turning to food banks for help. Some pantries say they're serving 50 percent more people than a year ago.