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Former Pence Chief Of Staff Testified Before Grand Jury In DOJ Probe; Both Trump And Pence To Speak In D.C. Today At Different Events; Cars Submerged, Rescues Underway As St. Louis Faces Historic Flooding; California's Oak Fire Scorches Over 17,000 Acres; White House To Name Monkeypox Coordinator. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 26, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:31]

JOHN SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow, we're glad you're with us. Well from running mates to potential 2024 rivals. Former President Trump and former Vice President Mike Pence, both in Washington today expected to deliver highly anticipated speeches with dueling messages on the future of the Republican party while getting ready for their own potential runs for the White House. At any moment, the former vice president will speak at a National Conservative Student Conference. In an earlier speech that was postponed due to weather, he was expected to argue quote "conservatives must focus on the future", closed quote. (Inaudible) his former boss, for former president's false claims about the 2020 election.

SCIUTTO: Remarkable to have a vice president who served under that president to then challenge him. A spokesman for the former president tells CNN, he will use his speech today to focus on law and order. This as the Justice Department inquiry into the Capitol attack widens. Pence's former Chief of Staff Marc Short confirmed to CNN that he testified before a DOJ grand jury investigating the January 6th insurrection making him the highest profile witness known to have testified so far in the criminal investigation. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR FORMER V.P. MIKE PENCE: Our secret service did a phenomenal job that day and their job was made more complicated candidly by the fact that the Capitol had been breached, and truthfully that, you know, they wanted to evacuate the vice president but it's been covered the vice president didn't want the image of the 15 car motorcade fleeing the Hallmark of Democracy for the world to see. I candidly think that, you know, if -- if the rioter had gotten any closer, likely there would have been a massacre in the Capitol. It wouldn't have been secret service agents though who had been the ones harmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean, just remarkable to hear him say that. Our -- our Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us now and Evan, Marc Short, you know, is also we now know provided testimony. We knew previously that a House Select Committee but now we know he's provided testimony to the Department of Justice grand jury. That's significant. No?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Oh yes. It is a huge deal, what this does Poppy and Jim is for the first time we know, you know, publicly because Marc Short confirmed it to Erin Burnett last night. We know for the first time that prosecutors and investigators all of the January 6th, you know, the January 6th investigation of the Justice Department have now reached into the Trump White House. Marc Short and the Wall Street Journal is also reporting Greg Jacob, who is the -- the general counsel of -- for-- the counsel for the former vice president, both have testified before this grand jury.

And this is the grand jury guys that is looking broader at the issue of the effort to -- to stop certification of the -- of the election, which was an effort -- obviously that was focused on Congress, as well as the effort to get these fake electors, who would essentially be the people who could vote in Donald Trump and keep him in office. Obviously, the Justice Department investigation is -- has -- is -- is going a lot more slowly perhaps than members of Congress and some of the critics would like. But there's been a lot of activity behind the scenes that they've not been able to detect. Listen to -- to Representative Adam -- Adam Kinzinger express some of that frustration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): There was a lot of frustration, just kind of personally for the last, I guess, year and a half, what's DOJ doing? Obviously, we have two different interests. Ours is to get the bottom of what happened, put out recommendations. The Department of Justice is to look at any possible criminality. I just have to ask, what have they been doing for the last year a half.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: Jim and Poppy, they've been doing a lot, I think. Perhaps the member of the Congress and even us, you know, in the media. We've been a little mystified as to what was going on behind the scenes. We know that the -- the -- the Attorney -- the Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco told us in January that they were doing this inquiry into the electors. We know that that has expanded since then. We also know now that, you know, at a minimum, prosecutors, Justice Department officials had to have a discussion about the implications for Donald Trump.

Donald Trump and John Eastman were in a meeting on January 4th, where they were trying to persuade Mike Pence that he had the power to discard the Constitution, to discard election results, which of course he ended up not doing. So this is why this is a very important piece of testimony that we now know the grand jury has -- has received. Jim and Poppy.

[09:05:00] SCIUTTO: Evan Perez, thanks so much. Let's speak now to CNN Chief Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. So Jeffrey, and again to be clear. This is --this is not the January 6th Committee testimony. We've had senior testify there. Some of them publicly. This is the DOJ criminal investigation. So the importance of having someone at that level with that kind of vision inside the Trump Administration, particularly into that plot to pressure the vice president, right, to reject valid votes. What does that tell you about the status of the DOJ probe?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: They're looking at whether Donald Trump committed a crime.

I don't think there's any alternative to that -- that interpretation, and these are central questions that-- that have emerged. You know, was there improper pressure on Mike Pence to -- to reject the election returns? You know, was the -- what was the involvement of the White House in the fake elector scheme and was a crime committed there? Was there corrupt pressure put on the Justice Department?

Both the -- both Pence officials who testified know about all three of those questions and that's all about whether Donald Trump and perhaps also John Eastman, the lawyer who was working with him committed a crime.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Toobin, do you -- do you think that Adam Kinzinger's question of where has the DOJ been is the right one? Or should we be looking at this through the lens of it's better to get it right than fast, or faster?

TOOBIN: Well, I'm going to give you a different answer. I mean, I -- I think as Evan said, you know, we don't know exactly how the Justice Department has been conducting its criminal investigation so far. Grand jury investigations are by definition secret. We as journalists try to find out what's going on and we find out some things but they just happen to see the -- the -- the Pence officials coming out of the grand jury yesterday.

But we don't know what they've been doing and now clearly, they are investigating the White House and it's also worth remembering a year and a half, two years to indictment. That's what it took in Iran- Contra. That's what it took in Watergate. These White House scandals take a long time to do a criminal investigation.

HARLOW: Wise words. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much. At any moment former Vice President Pence will speak to young conservatives in Washington.

SCIUTTO: Let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes. So Kristen, you've been covering this for some time. His remarks come right before President Trump's speech, also his return to D.C. at the America First Summit. Tell us what the two messages are expected to be from -- from the former president and the former vice president?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, if these speeches look anything like what we've seen from the two of them in recent weeks, there will be markedly different. Now we'll talk about former President Trump first. This is being billed as a policy speech focused on law and order. Remember Republicans believe that high crime rates are one of the driving factor that will bring people to the polls in November, and allies around Trump tell me that he hope he actually uses this opportunity. One, to set the Republican agenda ahead of the mid-terms and two to actually lay the groundwork in a real way for 2024, looking forward, not setting up these rallies where he just essentially airs his grievances for hours on end.

They hope that he can actually focus on this and focus on the future, which so far, he has been unable to do. That is quite different from his former-Vice President Mike Pence who aides formally refer to as on message Mike. He has been hammering home the same message for the last several weeks which is the future. Republicans should be the party of the future. Republicans should stop looking at the past and Poppy as you mentioned, a lot of the (inaudible) thinly veiled jabs at his former boss, President Trump, who continues to harp on that 2020 election. And while neither of them have yet to announce a 2024 presidential bid -- bid, excuse me, it does see as though they're setting up for this epic showdown between these two men who served side by side in the White House.

SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, thanks very much. Joining us now to discuss, CNN Political Commentator S.E. Cupp and former Republican Congresswoman from Utah, Mia Love. Good -- good to have you both on. You cannot underestimate the significance of having a former vice president, four years later challenge a former president. Right? So -- so openly here, but I wonder, well we have a GOP pollster Sara Longwell on later on the show who says that in focus groups, that -- that she's been doing, the GOP voters that she speaks to have no interest in -- in a Pence candidacy. They see him as "Old Guard". So I wonder, is this battle that we're describing there taking place generally among GOP voters or --or really just in a tight bubble of D.C. and political commentary? Mia Love, I'll go to you first.

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK. Well, OK. Well I think that this is actually an important debate that is going to happen and it's, you know, I just have to say that Pence's message can be summed up with this.

[09:10:06]

His remarks this morning that are going to be focused on the fact that he said I believe that conservatives must focus on the future. Where former President Donald Trump's message has been focused on himself and certainly not the American people or the future. He has -- he has -- he is fighting his past grievances where I believe that Mike Pence is going to talk about conservative policies moving forward and he needs to talk about conservative policies moving forward. He has an opportunity here because the failed policies of Democrats have not worked. They -- people are suffering. They're suffering. They're focused on putting food on the table, where we need a positive message going forward, how we're going to make American lives better.

HARLOW: So there's some really interesting S.E., CNN polling, sad but the reality is only 29 percent of Republicans are confident in elections in America today reflecting (inaudible) the people. Only 57 percent of Democrats, neither of those numbers are what you want. You want people to trust elections. This is a lot because of the continuing election lies by Trump and his allies, but I wonder given those numbers, given that reality. Is Pence's, sort of, not focusing on the past message going to resonate with all these folks who think it was stolen and it wasn't?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well a couple things, listen -- Pence's existential crisis is how do you court voters who wanted to hang you? And let's be clear, Mike Pence still goes and speaks at conservative conferences, he's called a traitor. He's jeered and heckled by -- by people who make up the base of the party. That's -- that leaves him with, I think, a very narrow pathway to the Republican nomination. It's also though, really hard to talk about the future when the Republican party is rolling back protections for women, gay marriage, banning books and really, I mean, almost as a -- as a-- as a block, as a party returning us to the 1950s. So I think for Mike Pence, the future just means, forget about the last four years where I covered, you know, carried Donald Trump's water. Forget about the fact that he's still barking about rigged elections. Let's just forget that that all happened. That's what he means by the future. It's pretty -- it's convenient.

SCIUTTO: S.E. Cupp, I wonder -- this goes beyond Pence and Trump right? Because there are other Republicans who are one, either directly calling out Trump or at least tipping their toe into the water of a potential run. DeSantis, for -- for example, Nikki Haley, tweeting about that kind of thing. I -- I just wonder where you see the race for the party. Yes, Donald Trump is still popular but perhaps if you speak to some of the pollsters, less so than he was a few months ago. Where does it stand? I mean, are we -- are we looking for a wide-open Republican race for the nomination in 2024?

CUPP: Yes, well the thing is that so far no one who's really, you know, like very different from Donald Trump has decided to run yet. You've got Pence and DeSantis and Nikki Haley all flirting with it. I would -- I would say that they're Trump-like. I mean, they certainly supported and defended Donald Trump a lot. You don't have someone yet like an Adam Kinzinger. Right? Someone who's painted a very strong contrast between him and -- and -- and Donald Trump. So they're all sort of versions -- versions of Trump and I think that means that all of them will be kept in a cluster for some time.

HARLOW: Congresswoman Love, respond to this. Marc Short, former Pence aide, made a whole lot of news on CNN last night when he talked to our colleague Erin Burnett and -- and really notable was what he said in response to Congressman Matt Gaetz saying quote, "Mike Pence will never be president. That Pence wasn't a leader." Here's what Pence's former aide Marc Short thinks of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHORT: I don't know if Mike Pence will run for president in 2024, but I don't think that Matt Gaetz will have an impact on that. In fact, I'd be surprised if he was still voting. It's more likely he'll be in prison for child sex trafficking by 2024 and I'm actually surprised (inaudible) law enforcement still allows him to speak to teenage conferences like that. So I'm not too worried about what Matt Gaetz thinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean, that's quite a statement but it's from a Republican who worked at a very conservative -- worked for a very conservative Republican, Pence, against another conservative, though very different Republican Matt Gaetz. What do you think big picture?

LOVE: Well I think big picture, as long as Matt Gaetz continues to talk about Mike Pence, it's better for Mike Pence because there's a clear contrast there. Listen, Mike Pence has shown that he can be trusted with the Constitution. He has under the worst circumstances, was able to stand and do his job and keep our democracy from descending into chaos.

[09:15:07]

So he has earned the trust of a lot of Republicans and I think -- I think the jury is still out. Let people continue to go and talk about their message and we will see who has the best message for conservatives going forward.

HARLOW: Congresswoman Love, S.E. Cupp, thank you very much. Still to come, the White House is expected to name a monkeypox coordinator soon. This as criticism of the Federal response grows. What Dr. Fauci said this morning about the virus and new CNN reporting also this morning, fascinating reporting from our Joan Biskupic on how Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts tried and, in the end, ultimately failed to lobby his fellow conservative justices to preserve some abortion rights. Details on how it all unfolded behind the scenes.

SCIUTTO: Plus dangerous flooding in St. Louis this morning, cars submerged, water rescues now underway. The most rain the city has ever seen in a single day with more rain expected this morning. We're going to have a live update next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:11]

SCIUTTO: This morning major flooding in St. Louis which prompted a flash flood emergency. Officials say it's the wettest day ever recorded there and it's still raining.

HARLOW: Wow, our meteorologist Chad Myers joins us. The wettest day on record in almost 150 years of record keeping. Wow.

CHRIS MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And it's only 8:20 in the morning.

HARLOW: Yes.

MYERS: Yes. They still have hours and hours of rainfall to go to make that number go higher and break 8.06 inches of rainfall overnight. That's the problem. It just all came down one storm after another. We call it training. Just one storm right on top of the same train tracks that the last storm just went on by. Look at the stripe across this area. All of that purple, that's 10 inches of rain or more. We still have a couple up here that are being added up, 11 inches, 10 and a half and some of these areas are still going to pick up another one to two before it finally stops.

It was a stationary front, like a stationary bike. They don't move. The heat and humidity down here, bumped up against that stationary front and it just rained all night long and it could rain for the rest of the day. Maybe not as heavy but in the heat of the day, these storms could get going again. So there go the storms from this morning but watch what happens back out here, along I-70 we get the worst storms developing in the heat of the day.

Like they do, they get bigger in the heat of the day and then finally down to the south more showers and storms. Possible flooding into parts of Kentucky, not for the next couple of days. This isn't moving because, like I said, it's a stationary front and it refuses to do anything except generate that much rainfall and that many problems for the people there around St. Louis and to the northwest.

HARLOW: Jeez. Rooting for -- for all of them, but that's got to be devastating to a lot of homes, businesses, et cetera. All right, Chad, thanks very much.

MYERS: Your welcome.

HARLOW: From floods to fire. The Oak Fire in Mariposa County, California has now scorched more than 17,000 acres. Officials say the fire burning near Yosemite National Park is still only 16 percent contained.

SCIUTTO: CNN National Correspondent Camila Bernal is at the scene there. So now Camila, officials say the blaze moving northeast. I just wonder what areas are the -- is this now threatening and -- and can they get it under control?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well they hope they can get it under control Jim, Poppy, good morning. They say they're doing everything they can, working 24/7 to work on that containment which, as you said, is now at 16 percent. But what officials here say is that the fire is moving at unprecedented speeds and that's because, in part, the ongoing drought here in the state of California. Everything is dry, so you have things like a -- a bark beetle and it has killed and essentially destroyed many, many of the trees in this area. So you have all these dead trees, all the dead material and that causes the perfect storm for this fire because it helps it spread really, really quickly and that's when you have people trying to leave this area and not having enough time.

Already more than 17,000 acres have burned and officials say it's a direct result of climate change. There are 55 structures that are destroyed as crews continue that assessment, those numbers continue to go up but they do say they're making progress. They say yesterday, they were able to dump 300,000 gallons of water. We now have a lot of resources here. They have 24 helicopters, 302 engines, 82 bulldozers, 68 water tenders, 2,991 personnel and 61 crews here on the ground. So that has helped a lot. A lot of the crews are working to control the fire, to keep those fire lines to put out the hot spots. So you're seeing the work in the air and on the ground. Jim, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, such a familiar story. Sad one, Camila Bernal, please stay safe there on the scene. Thank you. Well the White House will soon name a coordinator, a monkeypox coordinator as cases rise in the U.S. How far does this go? Who should be most concerned? We'll ask those questions coming up.

HARLOW: We are also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures slightly lower this morning. General Motors and Walmart, two stocks moving lower in pre-market trading in their quarterly earnings reports both companies said that they're preparing for an economic slowdown this year. Maybe a recession, we'll explain ahead.

[09:24:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:24]

HARLOW: So news overnight that the White House is going to name a monkeypox coordinator as the outbreak grows in the U.S.

SCIUTTO: The CDC shows that now about 3,500 confirmed cases across the country, though that number is expected to rise as testing increases. CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. So Elizabeth, what do you know how broadly this is affecting the country but also who's most vulnerable?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So this is affecting mostly, really 99 percent men who have sex with men. It is still centered in that community. And I think them naming this coordinator is a sign that, what sources are telling me is, look, we can get a handle on this. We can get this under control with testing and vaccination, but we really do need to act now.

[09:30:08]