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White House Expected to Appoint Monkeypox Coordinator; New Information Emerges on Supreme Court Chief Justice's Efforts to Prevent Overturning of Roe v. Wade; Inflation Frustration. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired July 26, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Russia says it will be withdrawing from the International Space Station project after 2024. The leader of Russia's space agency says it plans to build its own orbital stations.

This came as a surprise to NASA. NASA officials say they have not received any official word from Russia about its decision to end what has been a decades-long partnership.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you back here tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thank you for joining us on this busy day in the NEWSROOM.

Inflation frustration has Americans pay more for just about everything. A new key report finds everyone is fed up, consumer confidence now down to its lowest level in 18 months, what it all means for you as recession fears rise.

Plus, he fought to the bitter end. Stunning new insight into Chief Justice John Roberts bid to save Roe v. Wade, why his effort to convince his fellow conservatives ultimately failed.

And Houston rushes out. The country that put the first man in space is quitting the International Space Station. The impact on future missions just ahead.

But, first, your money.

And CNN business reporter Matt Egan is here with us.

So, today's consumer confidence report was the first major data point in this critical week for the U.S. economy. What did it show?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, simply put, Ana, Americans are not happy with this economy, consumer confidence dropping for a third month in a row in July.

Put this into context, lowest level for consumer confidence since February of 2021. Not only is confidence well below the peak of last year. It's not even close to the pre-COVID levels. In fact, it's actually closer to the COVID lows, which is pretty amazing.

This is a telling stat here. Despite the very strong jobs market, just 17 percent of consumers say business conditions are good; 24 percent say conditions are bad. Now, this is a big deal because consumer spending is the biggest driver of the economy. If people slow their spending, all bets are off for the economy.

CABRERA: We didn't expect these numbers to be good. But these are actually worse than expectations. What's driving that?

EGAN: Yes, absolutely.

Listen, two big forces here. The first one, obvious, inflation. Cost of living is so high right now, 40-year high for inflation. It's not just gas prices, though. This is really across the board. Check this out. In June, record year-over-year price spikes on everything from beer and haircuts and cleaning products to men's suits and butter.

The other big force, though, is the fact that borrowing costs are skyrocketing. Check out this quote from the consumer confidence report. They said: "As the Fed raises interest rates to rein in inflation, purchasing intentions for cars, homes, major appliances have all pulled back further in July."

Now, this is the Fed's goal. They want to curb demand to try to get inflation under control. The problem is, if they do too much, they cause a recession. They don't do enough, inflation stays too high.

CABRERA: That last slide with all of the consumer feelings, with the inflation items, that one was what really got me with, looking at 26 percent increase for things like butter or 19 percent chicken, lunch meat. No wonder my grocery bill is going up. We're all feeling it, right?

EGAN: You're not imagining it.

CABRERA: How do all the numbers this week, I guess, start this big week that we have going? Where are we headed?

EGAN: The common theme here is inflation, right? Today, we learned how the high cost of living is making people upset about the economy.

Tomorrow, I will be in Washington for the Federal Reserve's meeting. They're widely expected to raise interest rates significantly to try to get inflation under control. Thursday, we have this big GDP report. That is expected to show that the cost of living is so high that the economy either barely grew during the second quarter or perhaps actually contracted for the second quarter in a row.

And then what more fitting way to end this pivotal week for the economy than another inflation report on Friday? It's expected to show that inflation remains way higher than the Federal Reserve wants it to be.

CABRERA: We all got to buckle up. Matt Egan, thank you.

EGAN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Let's bring in CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar for more.

Rana, first, your read on these new consumer numbers and what it signals for the week ahead.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Well, look, people feel like they're in a recession, whether they are or not.

I mean, there's a lot of debate about technical recessions. At the end of the day, Ana, you and I know it's about how you feel. Do you have money in your wallet? Are you buttoning up your pocketbook? And people clearly are. We have all felt the cost increases at the grocery store, at the pump, although gas price has gone down a little bit. That's one silver lining.

But folks are not feeling good. They are feeling in a pinch right now.

CABRERA: Some news from Walmart, supply apparently outpacing demand. They're not moving goods. So now they're pledging to cut prices.

Target is also dealing with a big backlog of unsold merchandise. How big of a deal is this? What does it tell us about the bigger inflation picture?

FOROOHAR: Well, I think that when you see a retailer like Walmart coming in with disappointing earnings or saying, look, we're going to cut prices even further because our customer, which is already a budget-conscious consumer, is feeling a pinch, you know we're in a new environment.

[13:05:11]

I mean, everybody's concerned about inflation. But when you look at how it affects folks, working people, it really takes a much bigger chunk out of their daily budgets. And so this is a snowball effect, right? You -- these big companies count on people to keep spending money. If inflation is biting, they're not spending money. That affects earnings. That affects jobs.

So it's a snowball cycle here. And that's what we're going to be seeing all this week as the numbers come in.

CABRERA: We do know inflation isn't just a problem in America. It's a problem around the globe.

Is the U.S. in better shape than a lot of other countries?

FOROOHAR: Yes.

In fact, I just got back from Europe. And I would say the U.S. is absolutely in better shape. It doesn't feel like that here so much. But we are absolutely doing better than Europeans. Their energy situation, of course, because of the dependence on Russia, is absolutely dire.

And the U.S. dollar is so strong right now that, in some ways, we're actually exporting inflation to the rest of the world, because there has been a greater pickup post-COVID in the U.S. than some other places. That might be changing now, but still the U.S. remains kind of the cleanest dirty shirt in the closet of the global economy.

CABRERA: Gas prices have been falling. That's another positive here. Today, the White House announced it is releasing even more oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

What impact will this have?

FOROOHAR: Well, you can feel it at the pump, right? I mean, there's not a lot that this White House can do, frankly, about the inflation picture. And I have to say the White House often takes the blame and the boon of a good economy or a bad economy.

They, frankly, deserve very little of either of those things, no matter what administration you're in. But one thing they can do is release that Strategic Petroleum Reserve. They're doing it. It has brought down prices. And I think that you're going to see more talk about can the government start stockpiling more reserves?

Should it be doing that in other areas, like grain food, et cetera?

CABRERA: When it comes to the housing market, a senior economist for interactive brokers says the U.S. is right now facing a perfect storm for a housing crisis similar to that of 2008.

We're seeing home prices continue to go up. Is that how you see where this is headed?

FOROOHAR: You know, I think housing is more nuanced than a lot of people think.

Absolutely, we're going to see some price falls in the frothiest markets as rates go up. That's normal. But I also think that the pandemic and work from home has changed the geography of this country. People have moved from the coasts to the South to the West.

And so I think that those markets still have room to grow. And I think that some markets could remain robust for another year or two, particularly as those supply chain issues work their way through the system.

CABRERA: Rana Foroohar, always great to have you here. You bring such important insight and context to the conversation. Thank you.

And now to a CNN exclusive, Chief Justice John Roberts and the effort he took behind the scenes to try to save Roe v. Wade.

CNN legal analyst and Supreme Court biographer Joan Biskupic has the scoop on this.

One fascinating insight here, Joan, Roberts, a conservative, tried to convince his fellow conservatives to not overturn the constitutional right to an abortion. How did this go down?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: That's right, Ana. Good to see you.

They voted back in December after oral arguments essentially 5-1-3, with the five conservatives to his right all saying not only did they want to uphold the Mississippi ban on abortions at 15 weeks, but they wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade completely, a question that was actually not before them when they first took this case.

The chief wanted to go partway to uphold the Mississippi ban, but not reverse precedent and show some judicial restraint here. Of course, the three remaining liberals on the Supreme Court did not want to disrupt Roe v. Wade at all.

So the chief begins to try to privately lobby one of those conservatives over to the middle ground to say, look, there will be time to have a full reconsideration of Roe. This is not the moment to do this. And he's working at it, working it. And it causes something to happen on the part of his other colleagues.

The far right conservatives start to get very anxious about what Roberts is doing. He's been able to pull off an 11th-hour switch in the past. He himself has switched his vote in the end, most famously in the 2012 Obamacare case. So they begin to get fairly anxious here.

Meanwhile, the liberals, who had such a big year of defeat, are starting to feel like maybe there's some hope that Roe will not be completely gutted. And then we get to May 2, and that's the day that Politico his obtained this 98-page draft of Justice Alito's decision fully overturning Roe and showing that Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett are on that decision.

[13:10:13]

Those were the two that the chief would have had the best chance of picking off. Likely, his best prospect would have been Brett Kavanaugh. And the chief continues to work hard behind the scenes. He did not give up. But at that point, everything's public.

He wanted -- he was previously obviously working secretively, looking at concessions that he could make and that he could draw out of his colleagues. But when everything's just so public, it's more locked in. And that's what happened.

CABRERA: And so if that was a key moment in locking in everybody's positions, do we know how the justices were responding to Roberts' lobbying before that leak? Were any of the conservatives swaying at all?

BISKUPIC: Well, now, Brett Kavanaugh had voted to overturn Roe, but he is known to send mixed signals and to have a lot of ambivalence.

And as I understand it, he was open to Robert's overtures, to an extent. I personally think that Brett Kavanaugh always is sending mixed signals and always giving hope to the other side, but typically ending up firmly in the right-wing camp. And that's what happened here.

CABRERA: The investigation into that leak continues. It began May 3.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

CABRERA: Any discoveries?

BISKUPIC: Yes.

OK, so what we found out, as we previously reported, the marshal of the court, Gail Curley, had already asked the one-year law clerks to sign affidavits related to the leak and to turn over cell phone information. I learned in doing this story, Ana, that she had also sought electronic devices from some of the key full-time staff in the justices' chambers.

They have been very aggressive toward these employees. And there's been really mixed responses, with some of the clerks especially feeling like their privacy has been invaded. They have all now moved on, but the court has made clear to them that they are -- the marshals office is still investigating vigorously.

But there's sentiment inside wondering whether the culprit were will ever be found.

CABRERA: Wow. It's so interesting.

Joan Biskupic, great reporting. Thank you for sharing it with us.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

CABRERA: Ahead for us, yet another sign the Justice Department's own investigation into the January 6 Capitol attack is revving up. Up next, why the grand jury wanted to hear from this man, who was chief of staff to former Vice President Pence.

Plus, as monkeypox infections continue rising, the Biden White House prepares to take more action. Will it be enough?

And, later, dramatic water rescues under way in St. Louis. When will all this rain let up?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:08]

CABRERA: As the January 6 Committee gears up for a fresh round of witness interviews, we have learned the Justice Department's parallel criminal investigation into events surrounding the Capitol attack landed its most high-profile witness yet.

The chief of staff for former Vice President Pence, Marc Short, appeared before a federal grand jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I can confirm that I did receive a subpoena for the federal grand jury, and I comply with that subpoena. But under advice of counsel, I really can't say much more than that.

That was my only appearance before the grand jury.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Short was in those White House meetings where Trump and others pushed for Pence to reject the 2020 results. He was also the one who alerted Secret Service that Trump may -- quote -- "lash out" at Pence on January 6.

He was right. And Short was with Pence on Capitol Hill when the vice president and his team narrowly escaped the rioters.

Let's bring in CNN chief legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. He's the author of "True Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Investigation of Donald Trump."

Jeff, thanks for joining us.

Short testified to this federal grand jury. Another top Pence aide reportedly testified as well. What does this tell you about where the DOJ investigation stands?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Ana, this is really a major, major development, because this is the first proof that we have that the Justice Department criminal investigation has reached into the Oval Office, that they are investigating people, potentially including Donald Trump, not just the rioters who were inside the Capitol.

There have been hundreds of prosecutions already of people who were involved in the actual riot at the Capitol. But there has been no definitive proof to date that the investigations of the higher-ups was actually going on.

Now we know it is. It doesn't mean anybody's going to get indicted, but it certainly is a sign that the investigation has reached a serious stage.

CABRERA: Yes, just to reiterate what you said, that is so significant that this puts prosecutors essentially inside the Trump White House for the first time that we know of.

You mentioned it could mean they're investigating the former president himself. Why do you think that's a possibility? Couldn't there be others who were in the White House that are also potentially legally in jeopardy?

TOOBIN: Potentially.

And, certainly, John Eastman, the law professor who was assisting the former president, would be in some potential jeopardy. But think about what Marc Short has testified about.

He's testified about the effort to intimidate and coerce Vice President Pence from doing his duty in counting the electoral votes. He's talked -- he's testified to the January 6 Committee about the scheme to put up fake electors.

[13:20:10]

He's testified about the effort to intimidate and change Justice Department officials who were not cooperative with the former president. All of that is potential evidence of criminality on the part of Donald Trump. It doesn't mean he's going to be indicted. Doesn't mean a crime was committed.

But that's what he testified about. That's now in the grand jury. So, clearly, it's something that's under investigation.

CABRERA: And we know what he might have testified about, because we all heard it publicly during the January 6 Committee hearings. We heard a lot from Short and their deposition that they did with him.

And he made it clear. They have made it clear they want their hearings to nudge along the Justice Department. Here's how GOP Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who's on the committee, reacted to this news about Marc Short testifying to the grand jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): There was a lot of frustration, just kind of personally, for the last, I guess, a year-and-a-half, like, what's DOJ doing?

I think our investigation, though it is not a criminal investigation, certainly has brought some things to light that DOJ is watching. And it seems like, between that and some of the search warrants that have been served and some of the other things we have seen, that they are moving forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: If you were to guess, Jeff, what's the DOJ's next move?

TOOBIN: Well, I think that they are going to investigate more people who were present at the White House on January 4, 5, and 6 in the lead-up to the -- in the lead-up to the riot at the Capitol.

Also, it's important to remember that these investigations rely enormously on physical evidence, as well as testimony. All of the text messages, all of the e-mails, any sort of memoranda that were prepared, all of that is going to be enormously important.

And any responsible prosecutor, I'm sure, including these Justice Department prosecutors, are going to want to collect all of that. Again, it also underlines another part of this investigation, why it's so important to recover those Secret Service messages that seem to have been deleted, because, especially now that there's a grand jury investigation, as well as a congressional investigation of January 6, those text messages really need to be recovered and disclosed.

CABRERA: Do you think the former vice president himself, Mike Pence, will be asked by the DOJ to testify?

TOOBIN: Gosh, that's such a fascinating question. I mean, I think the answer is probably yes. I mean, he has been in such a difficult, weird position.

I mean, here you have a man, a loyal vice president, who really was -- had his life endangered because Donald Trump incited an armed mob against him. Yet Pence has been extremely reluctant to say a cross word to his former boss, and he has never spoken out publicly.

They have endorsed different candidates. They have politically gone in somewhat different directions. But, as a simple human matter, Mike Pence could easily say to himself, this guy tried to get me killed. Why do I feel any loyalty to him?

But it's just a measure of Donald Trump's hold on the Republican Party that Mike Pence feels like he can't talk about Donald Trump except in the most respectful way. But it's just a very peculiar situation.

CABRERA: Yes.

TOOBIN: But to answer your question directly, yes, I think they will ask.

Both the congressional committee and the Justice Department will ask to speak to him. But whether Pence speaks, I don't know what the answer to that is.

CABRERA: Politics and power are powerful in terms of influences.

Thank you, Jeffrey Toobin. Good to have you here.

TOOBIN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come: The White House ways naming a monkeypox coordinator as that virus spreads.

Our next guest knows just how painful it is to have it. What he experienced and what he wants to see from the administration next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:09]

CABRERA: Right now, the White House is hosting a virtual summit on the future of COVID vaccines.

You are looking at live pictures of this summit under way at this meeting, including top representatives from Moderna, Pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies, as well as public health officials. Part of the discussion includes how the next generation of COVID

vaccines will be administered, whether it's nasal sprays, patches, or other methods.

The summit comes amid a surge in COVID infections over the past few months, with the 14-day average of new cases now topping 120,000.

Now to another public health threat, monkeypox. Health officials have identified nearly 3,500 cases here in the U.S. Remember, the first case here in the U.S. was discovered just two months ago.

We're learning the White House is now expected to name a coordinator to oversee the administration's response, a response that even Dr. Anthony Fauci says needs to improve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: There now has to be a balance between vaccines available.