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CNN Speaks to Republican Voters Ahead of Arizona Primary; Odinga Pulls Out of Presidential Debate Against Ruto; New Constitution set to Pass Amid Low Turnout in Tunisia; Pope Apologizes to Indigenous Canadians and Asks for Forgiveness. Aired 4:30-5a ET
Aired July 26, 2022 - 04:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:30:00]
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: And CNN has learned two top aides to former Vice President Mike Pence have testified to a grand jury in Washington. Marc Short, former White House chief of staff for Pence, one of the highest profile official from the Trump administration to offer insights into what was happening inside the Oval Office before and on the day that the January 6 riots.
U.S. President Joe Biden called out his predecessor Monday for failing to act on January 6. He made the comments while addressing a conference of black law enforcement officials. Mr. Biden praised the bravery of U.S. Capitol police but said Donald Trump didn't share their courage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And for three hours, the defeated former president of the United States watched it all happen as he sat in the comfort of the private dining room next to the Oval Office. While he was doing that, brave law enforcement officers were subject to the medieval hell for three hours. Face-to-face with a crazed mob that believed the lies of the defeated president. The police were heroes that day. Donald Trump lacked the courage to act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, in one week, Republican voters in Arizona will decide who they want on the ballot for the governor's race this fall. For many voters the decision hinges on whether they can accept the 2020 election results and what happened on January 6. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan went to Arizona to speak with some of them. And a warning, some of the language you'll hear may be offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WANDA SCHOENBERNER, TRUMP SUPPORTER FROM SOUTH DAKOTA: He didn't lose.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Say who?
SCHOENBERNER: He just didn't lose.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you believe the election was stolen. REX MCCRACKER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you have faith in elections now?
MCCRACKER: No.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?
CURTIS NEILSON, REPUBLICAN VOTER: No, I don't believe the 2020 election was stolen. I believe that there are aspects of the 2020 election that were unfair.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): In Arizona, a Republican Party at odds with itself, Trump and Pence holding competing events with two very different understandings of reality.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We need a landslide so big that the radical left cannot rig it or steal it, even if they try.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): At Trump's rally a bonfire of conspiracy theories.
O'SULLIVAN: Have you ever watched on January 6 hearings?
SCHOENBERNER: I have.
O'SULLIVAN: What you think?
SCHOENBERNER: I think they're a bunch of bullshit.
O'SULLIVAN: Why?
SCHOENBERNER: Well because you have both sides or are you getting one side of the story?
O'SULLIVAN: You mean like the side that attacked the Capitol?
SCHOENBERNER: You really believe that happened?
O'SULLIVAN: I was there.
SCHOENBERNER: OK. I have a lot of people that were there too.
O'SULLIVAN: And?
SCHOENBERNER: And saw things that it wasn't what they say it was.
O'SULLIVAN: But there's been hundreds of Trump supporters now charged. A lot of them have pled guilty.
SCHOENBERNER: So, do you think it's right for those people -- to have those people in jail and not getting the justice in our American system? Are you kidding me?
O'SULLIVAN: Do you think it was right that they attacked the Capitol? SCHOENBERNER: I know they didn't. That was an inside job, buddy.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The vast conspiracy theory that those who stormed the Capitol were not Trump supporters is widespread here.
O'SULLIVAN: Have you guys been watching the January 6 hearings at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
O'SULLIVAN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we saw it when it all went down. And then we saw like a lot of the BLM and Antifa people in the building as well. And it's just, it's just nonsense is all.
O'SULLIVAN: But I think like 800 people now have been charged, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah.
O'SULLIVAN: None of them are Black Lives Matter or Antifa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that doesn't mean anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not charging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn't mean anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. They have not been brought into court or their due process because they have not been arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hunter Biden hasn't been arrested.
O'SULLIVAN: Trump has told lies about the election and that, he said he didn't really lose. Do you think that all the lies about the election are damaging for American democracy?
MARDI MINX, TRUMP SUPPORTER: You believe he lied.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you not?
MINX: No, I do not. I don't. He won.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But these are no longer fringe ideas. A majority of Republicans do not believe Biden legitimately won the election.
O'SULLIVAN: Hey, guys, any of you want to talk to us?
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The Proud Boys who Trump once infamously told to stand back and stand by, now a regular fixture outside his events.
O'SULLIVAN: Any Proud Boys want to talk to us today? No? You're watching January 6 hearings?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're (INAUDIBLE) CNN, right?
O'SULLIVAN: CNN, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
O'SULLIVAN: My friends. OK. Thanks, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The former president here to campaign for a ticket of conspiracy theory spouting candidates who say they would have overturned results of the 2020 election in Arizona, like Kari Lake candidate for governor.
KARI LAKE (R-AZ) GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I know for a fact we will no longer accept rigged elections. Who's with me on that?
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Pence here campaigning for Lake's Republican rival.
MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Arizona needs Karrin Taylor Robson in the state house.
[04:35:02]
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Here, we met some Republicans who are done with Trump.
MITCH COMPTON, REPUBLICAN MIKE PENCE SUPPORTER: I voted for Trump twice. If Mike Pence runs, I'm voting for Mike Pence.
O'SULLIVAN: OK. So why is that?
COMPTON: I just think that, you know, everyone seemed the January 6 Committee. He stood up for democracy that day, you know, he's like, I'm not leaving the Capitol because I need to be here. And he was the one that was making phone calls to the military and trying to fix the situation while Trump was crying in the dining room.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But even among this crowd, there is sympathy for Trump's election lies and support for a 2024 run.
O'SULLIVAN: You're about to see Pence speak here. Trump's not a big fan of him right now,
JULIE FISHER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I understand that. I hear that he could have not certified those results, pending all the claims of the fraud. And I wish he would have done that.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Pence had no legal basis to do that. Also, among those here, Rusty Bowers, a lifelong Republican and speaker of the Arizona State House.
O'SULLIVAN: We're talking to a lot of people in here today who said they're not even, they're not watching the January 6 hearings, they still believe lies about the 2020 election. How do you -- what would be your message to them?
RUSTY BOWERS (R-AZ) HOUSE SPEAKER: I have no message for them. I can't help them. You don't want to look, you don't want to see, then you won't see. But I've seen enough to know. And I know that other people right in this room have done their best to count everything and do it all right.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): He testified before the January 6 Committee about Trump's efforts to get him to overturn the 2020 results in his state.
O'SULLIVAN: What is these conspiracy theories, these lies about the election about democracy. What is that doing to trust in this state?
BOWERS: It destroys it. It destroys it. We've got to let things go.
O'SULLIVAN: What would need to change for you to have faith in U.S. democracy?
MCCRACKEN: I don't trust our government, first of all, period. And if you don't have fair elections, well, good, are they?
O'SULLIVAN: Do you ever worry that you're wrong? Do you ever worry that --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, absolutely.
O'SULLIVAN: Never worry that maybe Trump has sold you a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. If you start researching and believe that you're the one who's wrong, and that you're crazy, which I did do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, maybe I'm wrong. And maybe I am being brainwashed and believing something that someone's telling me, but then you go in and look the other direction and you find lies after lies after lies.
COMPTON: It doesn't matter if it was stolen or not. If the Republicans want to take back the House and take back the Senate, and then eventually, the White House, they need to move on.
O'SULLIVAN: Almost two years since the 2020 election, more than a year since the attack on the Capitol and you see how pervasive those conspiracy theories are, many people going down very dark rabbit holes of disinformation online.
Donie O'Sullivan, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MACFARLANE: Now Indiana has become the first state to hold a special session aimed at restricting abortion rights since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last month.
Protestors chanting as lawmakers met to discuss the bill that would prohibit abortion unless it was necessary to save the mother's life. The bill would also include exceptions in case of rape or incest only if the pregnant person signs an affidavit attesting to the crime. Indiana's abortion law has been in the national spotlight since a 10- year-old rape victim crossed the state line from Ohio to get an abortion. State law currently allows abortions up to 20 weeks of pregnancy.
Now we're learning more about how long it really took police to arrive at the scene of the Texas school shooting. New body cam video shows a law enforcement officer was on the scene nearly five minutes earlier than previously known. The county commissioners have voted unanimously to hire an outside consulting firm to investigate the county sheriff's response to the shooting and schools will increase security for the coming academic year. Uvalde officials say ten additional police officers will be stationed across schools and metal detectors and bulletproof lining on windows will be installed.
Now Kenya's presidential election is just two weeks away and two former allies are facing off for the top job. A live report from Nairobi next.
Plus, the Pope addresses indigenous Canadians asking for forgiveness after decades of abuse. The latest on his tour of penance coming up.
[04:40:00]
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MACFARLANE: Welcome back. We're following two developing political stories in Africa right now. First, a top candidate to be Kenya's next president has pulled out of today's scheduled debates against his main rival. This comes just two weeks ahead of the election. Meanwhile, a new constitution granting Tunisia president vast new powers is set to pass. Critics say the birthplace of the 2011 Arab Spring protest is headed back toward autocracy.
Well, CNN correspondents are standing by to bring you the latest developments. David McKenzie was just in Tunisia but joins me now from Johannesburg. But we begin with Larry Madowo in Nairobi. Larry, with the current president backing his deputies rival to win these elections. How much are they shaping up to a referendum on President Kenyatta and his legacy?
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite a lot, Christina. In fact, one of the questions I put to Raila Odinga the former opposition leader, who now works with President Kenyatta, is that would a win for him be a third term for President Uhuru Kenyatta and he said nothing is further from the truth even though he has been working with President Kenyatta's government since 2018 after a famous handshake. He is going head-to-head with deputy president William Ruto who expects to be the next president of Kenya.
He calls himself the hustler-in-chief. It's a nod to his humble beginnings to a chicken seller to just a heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the land. So, it's been quite a climb.
There is supposed to be a presidential debate tonight organized by the Kenyan broadcast media, but Raila Odinga the opposition leader has said he will not show up for that because he refuses to share a platform with the deputy president who he considers has no decency, has no morals or shame and he will not -- he will not give him this opportunity for them to be on the same platform. Instead, he is promising to do a televised town hall in a different part of Nairobi if that happens. William Ruto will have 90 minutes in front of the whole nation on all major broadcast stations to sell his agenda. So, an interesting development there.
But the big thing in this debate -- in this entire campaign season has been about fighting corruptions.
[04:45:00]
Last year the President Uhuru Kenyatta claimed that about $16 million is stolen from the Kenyan government every day and they were promising to plug those loopholes and make sure that money is available for use for Kenyans. The big election is on August 9 and both candidates have told CNN that they will accept the outcome of the election if they lose as long as the process is free and fair.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and we hope that the elections proceed peacefully at the very least. Larry, thank you. I want to turn to David to talk about Tunisian elections. David, Tunisia have been voting on a new constitution put forward by their president which as we mentioned many fear will signal a return to autocracy. What powers will this give the president if it passes?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have spent many years developing a democratic constitution in Tunisia after the Arab Spring. The famous jasmine resolution. And this will undo much of that, it would give the president sweeping powers. Allow him to extend term limits if there is an emergency, and that is dictated by the president. He will be able to rule over Parliament, not as a co-equal branch, he will be more powerful than the judiciary.
And really the critics of the President Saied say this is the power grab which started exactly a year ago. His supporters though did come out in some numbers in Tunis in the very early hours of Tuesday morning. There was a low turnout as expected, but one exit poll that was quoted in state media suggests the very resounding success for the president which is what we expected. Here is one supporter of the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HICHEM EL-HIF, SUPPORTER OF NEW CONSTITUTION (through translator): Today the good news is that despite the heat and even with no political money people went and participated in the referendum. I did not vote for Kais Saied but in today's referendum I want to support him because I support the presidential regime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Well, the president said he wants to fight corruption. The new constitution if it passes will still ensure rights but because of the power of the presidency -- and people fear that this will be a slide back to autocracy. And really is, if that's the case, the final country of the Arab Spring more than ten years ago to return to some kind of autocracy and power amongst the supreme -- to a supreme leader. The coming days and months will tell whether that's the case.
But when we were in Tunisia a few days ago, there was certainly worry from activists about the democratic space about to drastically shrink -- Christina.
MACFARLANE: All right, David McKenzie there live from Johannesburg. Thanks very much, David.
OK, Pope Francis set to hold mass in Edmonton, Canada after his historic apology to indigenous people. The latest on his tour and analysis coming up.
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MACFARLANE: In the coming hours Pope Francis will hold a mass before tens of thousands of people in Edmonton, Canada. On Monday the pontiff formally apologized for what he calls the evil committed by so many Christians against the indigenous peoples. He was speaking to a largely indigenous audience in Maskwacis, Alberta. The community was the site of one of the now infamous residential schools, many of which were run by the Catholic Church. Children there were abused sexually and physically, separated from their families and forced to adopt white culture.
Well, for more on this story, we go to CNN senior Vatican analyst John Allen in Rome. He's also the editor of Crux, an independent site focusing on news related to the Catholic Church. John, thank you for joining us. This was a long awaited apology on a very emotional day for survivors who had endured so much of these abuses at these state- run schools. How was that apology received and was it seen as being enough?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, you know, Christina, since the era of Pope Paul 6, now St. Paul 6, in the 1960s popes have apologized literally hundreds of times for various sins of the church in the past and the present. But even by those standards, the Pope's language yesterday in that session with the indigenous leaders in Canada was remarkably forceful, I would say almost unprecedented. Let's give a quick listen to what the pope had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE FRANCIS (through translator): The memory of those children is indeed painful. It urges us to work to ensure that every child is treated with love, honor and respect. We want to walk together, to pray together, and to work together so that the sufferings of the past can lead to a future of justice, healing and reconciliation. I humbly beg forgiveness for the evil committed by so many Christians against the indigenous peoples.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: So, Christina, you heard the Pope there unambiguously use the word evil to describe what happened in those residential schools. My sense is that that apology was well received by the indigenous community in Canada, but by itself, Christina, frankly, it's not enough. They also want action.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and some are calling for reparations from the Catholic Church, you know. Are those steps likely to happen and what reparations would there be?
ALLEN: Well, first of all, I think what the indigenous are asking for, Christina, is transparency. They want the church to open its archives both this Canada and, in the Vatican, to try to get to the bottom of what happened to these roughly 150,000 children from indigenous families.
[04:55:00]
Who in many cases were forcibly removed and placed in to these residential schools. The problem there is that these archives are not centralized, they're scattered, often the records are missing. But they want a commitment from the church to do what it can to try to get to the truth. In terms of the reparations, the Canadian bishops had pledged to raise about $30 million. They want a commitment from the Pope and the church that they're serious about that -- Christina.
MACFARLANE: All right, John Allen there live from Rome. Thanks very much, John, for that analysis.
OK, American football fans now have a new way to catch their favorite games. The NFL has launched a streaming service starting at about $5 a month. The league has been the outlier among the four major leagues as the only one without a direct consumer subscription streaming option. The new NFL plus is only available on phones and tablets and users won't be able to stream games to TV through the service.
Now after nearly four decades on the market, the Choco Taco is no more. The beloved Klondike bar which consist of packaged ice cream served inside a taco shaped cone has been discontinued. The Klondike representative told CNN the company had to slim down their portfolio to help meet demand for their most popular items. That's not stopping some clients from trying to revive the Choco Taco. Reddit cofounder Alexis Ohanian offered to buy the rights to Choco Taco on Twitter.
Now financial planners have some advice for anyone who wins the next mega millions jackpot. They say keep quiet about it. It's at least until after you've hired an attorney, an accountant and a financial adviser. The jackpot for Tuesday night's mega millions drawing now stands at $810 million. That's the third largest in the game's history. So, shhh, keep quiet.
That does it for this edition of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London. "EARLY START" with Christine Romans is after the break. Stay with us.
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