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U.S., China Exchange Threats Over Taiwan; Russia's War on Ukraine Continues; Ukrainians Struggle to Rebuild their Lives; Deadly Flooding in Kentucky Leaves People Dead; U.S. Markets Close Up More Than 1 Percent Thursday; Pope Francis To Visit Nunavut, Canada As He Wraps Up Trip; Dead Spider Turned Into Roots That Can Grip Objects. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired July 29, 2022 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber.

Ahead on "CNN Newsroom," a marathon call. Tension is rising. The leaders of the U.S. and China exchange warnings on Taiwan, but was any real progress made?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: I don't want to live here anymore.

UNKNOWN: You don't?

UNKNOWN: Uh-hmm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Why people in one Ukrainian city say they can't take much more of the Russian war.

And devastating flooding in the U.S. state of Kentucky. The governor calls it the most significant and deadly the area has ever seen. We will check in live.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: We begin with a stark warning from Chinese President Xi Jinping to his U.S. counterpart, Joe Biden: If you play with fire, you get burned. The Chinese leader making clear his anger over Washington's relations with Taiwan, including a possible visit by U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The U.S. calls the warning standard and fair from Beijing and described the two-hour, 17-minute phone call as direct and honest.

The president also discussed the war in Ukraine, the need for China to be transparent about COVID-19 and its human rights record. They also agreed to start planning for a face-to-face summit, possibly later this year, in Indonesia or Thailand. But Taiwan was the central focus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON: The president was clear, nothing has changed about our policy, it stays the same, and nothing has changed about our desire (INAUDIBLE) the status quo between the (INAUDIBLE). Upset by unilateral force or unilateral action, either way. The president has been nothing but consistent. There is no reason for this (INAUDIBLE) conflict because our One China policy has not changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Let's go live now to Beijing and CNN bureau chief Steven Jiang. So, Steven, what do you make of the language in that Chinese warning and the message behind it?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: You know, that strong warning from Xi Jinping to Biden is an eye-catching hot line, but that was actually not the first time Xi has said the same phrase to Biden. He used the same phrase actually last November when the two men talked.

The key difference, of course, is the timing of this latest phone call. We are now only some three months away from that major Communist Party Congress where Xi Jinping is (INAUDIBLE) to assume a precedent- breaking third term as China's top leader, paving the way for him to potentially rule for life.

So, at a time when he is facing a lot of domestic challenges, he has to project this image of strength, power, and resolve on the issue of Taiwan. That is what making any of the promise to Chinese countermeasures all the more unpredictable and potentially more forceful.

So, the hope is after the two men now having this lengthy conversation, they would have gained a better understanding and some clarity on where each stand on this potential Pelosi visit to Taiwan. So, they and their teams could better contain the fallout of this visit if Pelosi decides to go ahead.

But really, the two sides are also very keen to address issues beyond Taiwan, trying to highlight the wide-ranging of their conversations. For the Chinese, if you read their readout, one thing that is interesting is they are trying to drive home the point that Xi Jinping telling Biden that the U.S. has been reading China wrong, that the U.S. perception of China as a strategic competitor in a long-term rival is simply wrong.

This is important because the Americans ever since Biden came to power, of course, have been saying, their aim is to set guardrails in this relationship to prevent things from getting out of control.

But from the Chinese perspective, of course, if the whole U.S.-China policy is heading to the wrong direction, what is the point of setting any so-called guardrails?

Equally interesting, of course, is what the Americans have said after this phone call with a U.S. official telling reporters that despite all the saber-rattling from Beijing, on a working level, officials from both sides have been meeting up and following up on both presidents' previous discussions and commitments, and they have made progress in some areas.

So, one thing both sides seem to agree is the necessity of the importance of these regular presidential level exchanges, especially at a time when there is so much tension -- so many tensions and also fiery rhetoric being thrown back and forth in public.

[02:05:04]

JIANG: Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, absolutely. All right, Steven Jiang, live in Beijing, appreciate that.

So, for more on this, let's bring in now Amanda Hsiao. She is a senior China analyst at the International Crisis Group. She joins me from Taipei. Thank you so much for being here with us.

So, let us start again with that warning and how much stock you put in that? I mean, China was clear that there will be consequences and will react to Pelosi visit to Taiwan. So, what are the risks here?

AMANDA HSIAO, SENIOR CHINA ANALYST, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Yeah, thanks, Kim. It's very possible that, should this trip go through, Pelosi's trip to Taiwan could lead to the next big U.S.-China crisis, particularly if Washington and Beijing don't manage this moment well.

As you said, we have seen pretty clear messages coming out of Beijing that China does intent on responding forcefully if this visit goes through. And I think those signals should be taken quite seriously.

The fact that they have said these multiple times in public means that they will have to follow through in some sort of visible way. So, this means we are likely to see an increase in military activities around Taiwan should the visit happen.

BRUNHUBER: So, I mean, in some visible way, is that -- you know, we have some reporting that china, for example, could shadow Pelosi's military plane with fighter jets or send aircraft flying, as you say over Taiwan itself. Obviously, this all would be a very volatile scenario with the possibility for miscalculation.

HSIAO: Yeah, absolutely. So, I think in order to get a better sense of China's possible responses, we do have to remember that because China does not want to a crisis or to enter into a military conflict with the U.S., it will want to show military strength in ways that avoids direct confrontation with the U.S. Military.

So, in other words, the Chinese military escorting Pelosi's plane, preventing her plane from landing, these responses that we have seen discussed pretty publicly in the media, I think, are unlikely to happen.

At the end of the day, they still want to have a relationship with the U.S. and that is pretty clear from the statements that we have seen from both sides out of that Xi-Biden call that took place yesterday. A lot of the content was focused on communications and identifying ways to cooperate.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. Let me follow up on that. I mean, the White House says those phone calls with Xi are important to maintain our personal relationship with China, to avoid future conflicts. So, do you think that phone call actually achieved that? Did it lower the tensions? Do you think that it helped to get to some of those other issues like, for instance, the Trump-era tariffs and the escalated Chinese military activity in the South China Sea?

HSIAO: Right, I think that the call has helped to defuse tensions over Pelosi's trip to Taiwan. The statement show really that the two sides are stepping back from that specific issue and looking at the overall relationship. There was a lot of emphasis on cooperation in the face of global challenges, including on climate change, food and security, et cetera.

And so, really, the two governments are sounding a signal that they do hope to work together down the line, which all of which really helps to diminish the importance of this one trip.

You know, and I think it's important that this call happened because it was an opportunity for the two leaders to directly state their existing positions on Taiwan. And that is incredibly useful right now to have clear signaling of intentions.

But while it's an important step, it is really just a first step towards diffusing tensions. The two sides should be doing more right now to ensure that this trip, if it goes through, doesn't escalate into a crisis.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, but one possible impediment of that, you know, Biden heading into midterms, President Xi going for his third term, and the economy in China is struggling. So, what role do you think domestic Chinese politics play here?

HSIAO: Yeah, absolutely. So, with the 20th Party Congress around the corner, you know, that domestic factor, I think, really pulls Beijing's calculus in two directions, opposing directions, really.

One, it will prompt Xi Jinping to want to appear strong and resolute in the face of what Chinese nationalists will see as U.S. bullying. And so, it pulls in that direction in the sort of, we must respond resolutely with force, with military strength in that direction.

[02:10:02]

HSIAO: At the same time, because it is a pivotal, political transition, and that transition is the key priority right now, there will also be a preference on the part of the leadership to have a more stable external environment. They don't want a crisis right now. And for that reason, they will also want to ensure that their response doesn't lead into some massive escalation with the U.S.

BRUNHUBER: All right. We will be watching for the fallout. Amanda Hsiao in Taipei, thank you so much, really appreciate it.

Ukraine says there are no reports of casualties so far after a Russian strike on the center of its second largest city. The mayor of Kharkiv posted on Telegram that the city was hit twice Friday morning. He says that a two-storey building and an educational institution were hit. He also says emergency crews are on the scene.

Now, in the south, work appears to be underway by Russian to restore its supply routes that in part -- that are part of Ukraine. Ukrainian artillery damaged to key bridge, preventing heavy weapons from crossing. But Ukraine says the Russians are now building a pontoon bridge.

Meanwhile, Ukraine says a number of other cities came under Russian artillery fire on Thursday, including this town in the Donetsk region where a missile strike damaged a five-storey building and killed two people.

President Zelenskyy addressed the nation on Ukraine's Statehood Day, saying Ukrainians will fight till the end. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): We will not stop until we free every measure of Ukrainian land. We will not rest until we free our last village, last home, last well, last cherry tree, and last willow. This is the only way it's going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Meanwhile, life is far from easy for Ukrainians even in the places liberated from Russian forces.

CNN went to Irpin, which was held by Russian troops in the early days of the conflict. Jason Carroll finds out residents are still struggling to put their lives back together.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADIA KUBRAK, FORMER IRPIN RESIDENT: We lived here, yes, in this apartment, and this is our neighbors.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nadia Kubrak says there are times it is hard to recognize that this is the place where she and her husband, and their son, called home for 10 years.

KUBRAK: This is the place where our son slept usually. So, we were very lucky not to be at home when it happened.

CARROLL (voice-over): It is when the Russians fired missiles on the town of Irpin during the early days of the war, destroying pockets of the city located about 45 minutes northwest of Kyiv. The Russians occupied Irpin for about a month until the Ukrainians forced them out and stopped the Russians' march toward the Ukrainian capital.

Kubrak's town became a symbol of strength and resistance. World leaders stood outside her apartment complex and praised the heroic actions of the Ukrainians. But now, the intention is gone. What is left are those wondering if they will ever be able to go home again.

(On camera): Do you have any help at all, any assistance?

KUBRAK: Not really. But, you know, the government is busy currently with the war. So, they don't have time for people like us. So, I think they told us, try to -- try not to die. And after the war is over, we will rebuild everything. But still --

CARROLL (on camera): Do you believe that?

KUBRAK: No. I think we have to do it by ourselves.

CARROLL (voice-over): According to the Ukrainian government, the war has displaced millions of Ukrainians, all with uncertain futures. People such as Irina Ochorenko (ph) now forced to live with friends. She used to live in the same complex as Kubrak.

(On camera): Do you still want to come home?

(Voice-over): Of course, of course, we want to come back home. We lived here for seven years. We really like it here, she says.

As for Kubrak, the family now lives in the country, farther away from the missile strikes. She still has home videos and pictures to remind her of what it used to feel like to be at home. As for their future,

KUBRAK: I don't want to live here anymore.

CARROLL (on camera): You don't?

KUBRAK: Uh-hmm.

CARROLL (on camera): Too many too sad or just --

KUBRAK: Yes, it's too difficult, because we have built our apartment by ourselves, by our own hands, and we have food to eat, a lot of power, love, and our efforts, and now it is all gone. I don't want to do it anymore.

CARROLL (voice-over): Jason Carroll, CNN, Irpin, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:15:00]

BRUNHUBER: An American request for a high-profile prisoner exchange isn't getting any traction in Russia. At least not yet. Moscow says its top diplomat is busy and will decide whether to discuss the trade with the U.S. secretary of state when time permits.

The Biden administration has offered up notorious arms dealer Viktor Bout, who was once one of the world's most wanted men, in exchange for American basketball star Brittney Griner and former Marine Paul Whelan. U.S. officials are apparently frustrated by Russia's slow response to the proposed swap.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: The fact that now several weeks later, we are where we are, I think you can read into that as being reflection of the fact that this has not moved to the extent we would like. And we want to make very clear to the Russians directly in this case, in a conversation with Secretary Blinken, the priority we attached to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Analysts have suggested the Kremlin may wait until the trial for Griner is over before deciding on the (INAUDIBLE). Viktor Bout's American lawyer also suggested that is what could be causing the holdup. He spoke to CNN's Laura Coates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE ZISSOU, VIKTOR BOUT'S ATTORNEY: I don't think this is anything more than what the Russians and the foreign ministry have been saying for some time now, which is, we are going to wait until the judicial process in Ms. Griner's concludes. When it is over, we are not going to interfere with the judicial process. We're going to let it happen. And when it is over, we will figure out what to do next.

So, I don't think this minimizes their interest in getting Viktor home. They have been clear about that for, frankly, for more than a decade. He has been in jail for almost 15 years. He is ready to go home. They are ready to bring him back. But they do have a judicial process there and that is what they have said.

And I should say, Ms. Coates, they have been saying that and they've done that with other cases in the past. They wait until the judicial process is over, and then they figure out what they're going to do next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The resumption of Ukraine's grain export is taking longer than originally expected. The United Nations says it was hoping the first grain shipment would leave as early as Thursday. The negotiators are still working out the final details needed for the safe passage of the vessels, including the exact locations of the safety corridors.

Last weekend, the U.S. and Turkey -- the U.N., rather, and Turkey (INAUDIBLE) deal to resume grain exports from Ukrainian ports, but one U.N. negotiator says the devil is still in the details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN GRIFFITHS, U.N. UNDERSECRETARY GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: We needed to have the elements of the proposal in place or be considered that would lead to a commercially viable operation. And we need to keep checking with it. If this happens, is that okay? Will that work with you?

Will safe channels be sufficient? Will safe channels with guidance by such and rescue talks and pilots from Ukraine, is that an added need, and so forth? So, those contacts have been throughout the negotiation. Largely reassuring, but then, as you, let's see the implementation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, one way that Vladimir Putin is beating western sanctions is by plundering the resources of compliant nations. CNN's Nima Elbagir and her team investigate Russia's involvement in Sudan's gold production and how it could be helping support Russia's war in Ukraine. Have a look here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deep in Sudan's gold country (ph), miners toil in the searing heat. Barely surviving in what should be one of Africa's richest countries. Providing gold for a war a continent away.

We investigate a force more powerful than Sudan's government. Controlling its gold. Subverting Sudan's destiny. Threatening me and our sources (ph). And forcing democracy to evade sanctions in Russia's war on Ukraine.

Russian manager is on his way, they say.

We uncover the extent of Russia's grip on Sudan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And you can watch Nima Elbagir's full report starting Friday at 3:00 p.m. in London and 6:00 in the evening in Abu Dhabi, only here on CNN.

Devastating floods ripped through Kentucky. The governor calls it the worst disaster of its lifetime. We'll have more on that after the break. And deadly flooding across Southwestern Pakistan. We will have an update on the rescue efforts there. Stay with us.

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[02:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: At least eight people have died from flooding in Eastern Kentucky, and the state's governor says that number is expected to rise. More than eight inches of rain fell on parts of the state from Wednesday into Thursday morning, overwhelming creeks, streams, and rivers already full from earlier rain. The governor warned it could take years for families to rebuild, calling it the worst flooding disaster of his lifetime.

CNN's Joe Johns is in Kentucky with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A race to rescue those still stranded in Eastern Kentucky, and what the governor says will end up being one of the most significant deadly floods in years.

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Unfortunately, I expect double-digit deaths in this flooding. That is something that we rarely see.

JOHNS (voice-over): The water so high you can only see the roof of this home. Many others submerged up to the windows.

A relentless stalled storm front dumped more than eight inches of rain in the area overnight. Raging waters swept away homes and cars.

JODY BUTLER, BREATHITT COUNTY RESIDENT: I didn't think it would get, you know, that high.

JOHNS (voice-over): This couple barely got out of their home in time.

BUTLER: He said, you better be getting some clothes, get you backpack because we got to get out of here. And by the time we got out to the neighbors (INAUDIBLE), it was -- we went from the back of the trailer to the carport.

JOHNS (voice-over): The creek side town of Hindman appears to be submerged in water. Governor Andy Beshear declared a statewide state of emergency and announced the first confirmed deaths, a woman in her 80s in Perry County and at least two others. Later in the day, the governor said the death toll had reached at least eight.

BESHEAR: We expect the loss of life. Hundreds will lose their homes. And this is going to be yet another event that is going to take not months but likely years for many families to rebuild and recover.

JOHNS (voice-over): Flooded down phone lines kept residents from getting help immediately overnight.

UNKNOWN: I can't get home. Nobody can get home.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Have you ever experienced anything like this?

UNKNOWN: No, this has never been this bad.

JOHNS (voice-over): Floodwaters rising over the bridge in downtown Whitesburg. Many roads in the area are impassable. While the National Guard has been mobilized to rescue people and provide aid, hundreds are expected to lose their homes.

BUTLER: It happens. I mean, it's bad enough. The first time, we had insurance. This time, we don't. But we will make. We always do with God's help. So, just had to pick yourself back up and that's all we can do, you know.

JOHNS (voice-over): Joe Johns, CNN, Hazard, Kentucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: For more on this, I want to bring in Jerry Stacy, who is the emergency management director in Perry County, Kentucky. He is joining me now live by phone from there. Thank you so much for being here with us. I mean, we have seen the pictures of just incredible homes underwater, car, you know, floating away, people rescued from the tops of roofs. What is the latest there where you are?

[02:24:56]

JERRY STACY, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR, PERRY COUNTY, KENTUCKY (via telephone): Yes, that has been -- this has been one of the most devastating things that I have seen in my lifetime. We have just had so many families across Eastern Kentucky. I'm the Emergency Management director in Perry County but there are so many counties across Eastern Kentucky that -- you know, families have lost not just part of what they've gotten, they lost everything. It's devastating.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, and it's not just property. I mean, we've heard just now that -- the governor there saying that he is expecting deaths in the double figures. I know some have died in Perry County where you are. Why has this been so deadly?

STACY (via telephone): Just the amount of rain in such a short period of time. When you start talking about seven, eight, nine inches of rain in a matter of three or four hours, it is just -- the water comes up so fast that it just overwhelms and surprises and destroys. It's something else.

BRUNHUBER: We heard -- I mean, hundreds of people may lose their homes. How have you been personally affected by this?

STACY (via telephone): Well, I have had some damage as well (INAUDIBLE) one of the small communities that was hit very hard. But not nearly as bad as some of my neighbors. I'm praying for my neighbors that have just absolutely lost everything. Some even their life. It's heartbreaking.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, absolutely, it is. You know, as emergency management director, what is the biggest challenge for you right now?

STACY (via telephone): Well, we are really focused on just search and rescue. The high level of water makes that very, very difficult. But, you know, we've got a good group of volunteers, volunteer at fire departments, that have worked around the clock to try and find and help our people.

BRUNHUBER: And you talk about people, you know, coming together, volunteers and so on. They are helping. I know there have been lot of people who have poured in donations as well. Talk to me about the community sort of rallying together in this time of need.

STACY (via telephone): That's one of the things you can -- one of the things I really love about being part of the community here in Eastern Kentucky. We are really one big family. We've already gone through this situation. We really wrapped around each other and pulled together. Our people would do that again. This is something that lasts a long time here. It's going to be a very difficult thing to overcome. But our people will rally around each other as always.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. Well, listen, I want to wish you all the best as you deal with sort of the immediate effects of this, the search and rescue, trying to save people as best as you can, as well as the long- term impacts. As the governor said, this will last for years and years to come. So, we wish you the best, and I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us now. Jerry Stacy, thank you so much.

STACY (via telephone): Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: Monsoon season is proving deadly across parts of Southwestern Pakistan. At least 106 people have died and 62 have been injured, according to the National Disaster Management Authority. Many families are stranded without food or water.

The Pakistani Army says two helicopters with relief supplies have been dispatched to the region, but rescue efforts have been hampered by ongoing severe weather. And more heavy rain and storms are expected in the coming days.

More to come here on CNN. We will look at the U.S. GDP data released Thursday and talk to an expert about whether the country is heading for recession. Stay with us.

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[02:30:00]

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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. stocks closed up for a second day in a row, despite data showing the U.S. may be headed for a recession. All three major U.S. indices ended up more than 1 percent and Wall Street hopes that economic contraction could actually mean lower interest rates down the road or the slowing of rate hikes. According to data released earlier Thursday, U.S. gross domestic product fell by nine-tenths of a percent on an annualized basis from April through June. It's the second consecutive quarter of economic contraction.

Now, usually, that's an official indicator of a recession but economists and U.S. officials say GDP numbers alone aren't sufficient to make that determination. White House officials insist the economy is fundamentally sound. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Most economists and most Americans have a similar definition of recession, substantial job losses, and mass layoffs, businesses shutting down, private sector activity slowing considerably, family budgets under immense strain, in some, a broad-based weakening of our economy. That is not what we're seeing right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And for more on this, let's bring in Ryan Patel, who's a senior fellow with the Drucker School of Management at Claremont Graduate University. Thanks so much for being here with us. So hard to know what to make of all this, I mean, we just heard the Treasury Secretary say we're not in a recession. You know, Moody's Analytics chief economist says he's absolutely sure he's done a recession -- a recession. He said we created too many jobs. So let's start with the obvious question here that everyone's asking, recession or no recession?

RYAN PATEL, SENIOR FELLOW, DRUCKER SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: Well, everybody talks about well, we're not in a recession yet. But let's -- I don't even want it. Let's just throw the definition out for -- right now for the audience's sake. Let's just talk about is the economy growing. Answer to that question, GDP is going down, so it is not going in the right pattern. Where we're getting caught up in the conversation, which is true, jobs growth -- are growing, but there is this mix. You know, we have this intendancy of comparing the recession to the last recession where the mortgage rates were going crazy, and people couldn't afford it.

So right now, as of today, and I think if you notice everyone's keyword, well, I don't think we're in the recession today. Well, let me tell you this if we keep heading toward, the GDP keeps going down to where it's supposed to, interest rates are going to go a little bit higher, you're going to start seeing some people panic, and you're going to start seeing auto and the homes not being able affordable. And then we start looking at consumer confidence and spending. In two months, people are going to be saying, well, it's coming down now. We're seeing that trend trajectory.

BRUNHUBER: OK. But then, in a way, I mean, some of the dropping numbers, they're a measure of success, right? The Fed wants to slow inflation, but they wanted to do that without creating a recession. So are they threading the eye of the needle here so far?

PATEL: 100 percent. It's because they're behind the eight ball. Kim, you and I talked about this, the transitioning comment that the Fed made last year is why we're here today. Do you think that they wanted to put a 75 basis point in back-to-back meetings? No, that's not what they wanted to do. And they're trying and they set up in the Fed meeting for the next meeting to say, well, we're only going to -- hopefully, we will have to do 50 basis points.

[02:35:04]

They don't -- you know, I think they need to, you know, having put in the pressure and being aggressive, they had no choice. I mean, there are great aspects, I don't want to there is an obviously with, you know, consumer spending and in the household spending, and obviously, with, you know, the ability for the economy to continue to grow. But we are seeing some mixed signals. And that's where the real conversation came. That's why you and I are having this is because it -- there's mixed signals behind this and we can't ignore that.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. I mean, these mixed signals, it's very hard. The messaging has not been very good on this from the -- from the get-go, as you say, and we've been talking about this. The influence of the domestic politics here, especially with a midterm coming, you know, we heard the Biden administration sort of downplay and spin the current difficulties. How much faith should we have in them when they -- when they got inflation so wrong?

PATEL: And, Kim, you're right, like we're getting caught up in the word recession. I mean, it's just the facts, right? Unemployment rate held steady at 3.6, which is great. It's a pre-pandemic low. We were seeing the job market growth, but we're also seeing, you know, 70 percent of all economic added, you know, that activity of household spending is barely keeping up with inflation, right? And so we're at this kind of brink of a point where you know you can't ignore these pressures and we can't ignore there are business -- I mean, there's some businesses are doing well, like we saw on Amazon and Apple had their earnings, but there's other businesses that are closing because of supply chain issues.

And don't forget, we also have these other X factor variables that go around the world that we are interconnected. And so for me, I like to be cautious -- aggressively cautious to go. Yes, there's some great signals, but there's also other signals showing that we are not going on the right path and there need to be some changes.

BRUNHUBER: I want to tap into your global expertise here. Obviously, what happens to the U.S., it makes a huge international waves affecting other economies, so what do these latest figures augur for the rest of the world?

PATEL: Well, I think it's clear. I think, for me, the biggest thing that comes out of it is that we are contracting on a global scale, or we saw the IMF come out and say the same thing. That cannot be ignored. Why can't be ignored as you can't grab this growth in the -- you know, a flick of a switch? You're going to have to, you know, bend more ties with other countries with agriculture. It's going to take time. So what that means is, Kim, we're going to see a slower recovery.

You know, Wall Street, as you can see today's thinking and hoping we don't -- I mean, there's going to be a recession hopefully by the end of the year, earlier. I mean, I know they don't want to a recession but seems like we're going and going down that path of some sort of conversation that's going to be slow down. But for me, it's a global recovery. It's super clear that the U.S., you look at China, you look at what you have going on in Europe right now, with inflation as well there, that if everybody's not firing on all cylinders, how can you expect for everyone to be back to normal to pre-pandemic levels? It's going to take time and we got to come to that realization.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, plenty of pain still ahead, unfortunately. Appreciate you speaking with us, Ryan Patel in Ahmedabad, India. Thank you so much.

PATEL: Thanks, Kim.

BRUNHUBER: The pope is expanding his apology tour through Canada and addressing deep wounds caused by sexual abuse. But are his words enough? Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: In the coming day, the pope will travel to Nunavut in northern Canada, a final stop on his pilgrimage of penance. On Thursday, for the first time since arriving in Canada, Pope Francis apologized for the sexual abuse of minors by members of the Canadian Catholic Church. He called the crimes, evil, but blamed church members, not the institution. During his tour, he has also apologized to indigenous communities for Canada's residential schools abuse scandal. Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher has a reaction from Quebec City.

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DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: A small disturbance at the beginning of the papal mass here at the Shrine of Sainte-Anne-de- Beaupre in Quebec, when the pope was on the altar, and the rest of the priests proceeding in, two protesters unfurled a banner, which said rescind the doctrine. They held it up for about less than a minute and then took it down themselves.

So many people in the church didn't even notice the pope was unable to see what the banner said. But it was a reference to a 15th-century doctrine at the Vatican, in which the papacy said that those colonial powers who went to the new world had the right to take the lands. And it has been a point of contention for indigenous people that the Vatican and the pope rescind and denied, cancel this particular papal doctrine from the late 14th century.

Now, the Vatican has said previously that this doctrine has already been superseded by a subsequent doctrine in the 15th century, which says that indigenous people have a right to their land and to their goods. Nonetheless, papal spokesman Matteo Bruni says that there is a study underway at the Vatican, and there is historical research will -- which will put all of these different Papal documents in order -- in order to clear the record. He said that won't happen obviously during this trip, but he hopes that it is forthcoming.

Delia Gallagher, CNN, Quebec.

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BRUNHUBER: Well, have a look at this. It sounds like something out of a horror movie. Scientists have found a way to give new life to dead spiders by turning them into robots. Yes, you heard that correctly, robots that can pick up objects. Engineers from Rice University in Texas use the so-called Wolf Spiders for the study. So here's how it works. They pump air into a dead spider's legs, then using a needle and superglue they're able to trigger the opening and closing of the legs to pick up objects. Now, researchers say the zombie spiders will be very useful in a lab because they can carry more than their own body weight. Two words, you and why. Think of that.

All right, thanks so much for joining us. "WORLD SPORT" is next

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