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Trump Offers Shifting Explanation for Why Classified Docs were at Mar-a-Lago; U.S. Lawmakers Make Surprise Trip to Taiwan; Renowned Author Off Ventilator After Stabbing Incident; CDC's Rollback of COVID Guidance Angers Some Medical Experts; Biden Administration Looks to Capitalize on String of Legislative Wins; Ice Shelves Melting even Faster than Expected. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 14, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:26]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): One of his followers tried to kill FBI agents. This is the kind of things that result when you've got a president that attacks law enforcement.

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I'm hoping that it was not a fishing expedition. Releasing that affidavit would be important to share with the American people why they did this.

BLAKE ESSIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Despite escalating tensions between Beijing and Taipei, this is the second time just this month a U.S. congressional delegation has made this surprise visit to Taiwan here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The acclaimed author has started to speak again. He was stabbed more than half a dozen times.

RALPH HENRY REESE, INJURED DURING ATTACK ON SALMAN RUSHDIE: To not only to assault his body but to assault everything that he represented.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: An armed man drove his car into a barricade outside the Capitol building, firing several shots in the air before taking his own life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mega-flood is coming to California. And it could be the most expensive natural disaster in history unlike anything anyone alive today has ever experienced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I am Kate Bolduan in for Pamela Brown. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Thank you so much for being here. We begin with the waiting game playing out after the search of former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago home with lawmakers trying to fill in the gap between what we know and still don't know about the seized documents. Allies of the former president are now trying to shift the pressure on to Attorney General Merrick Garland. The top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee wants more information from Garland and also evidence that the documents could threaten national security if they fell into the wrong hands.

We know the Justice Department removed 11 sets of classified documents in their search this past week. That includes materials marked with one of the highest levels of classification. Democrats on the House Intel and Oversight Committees say that they want a congressional briefing and an assessment on potential damage to national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Some of those documents were marked top secret, sensitive compartmented information. That is among the highest designation in terms of the extremely grave damage to national security that could be done if it were disclosed. So the fact that they were in an unsecured place, that is guarded with nothing more than a padlock or whatever security they had at a hotel, is deeply alarming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Jessica Schneider is following all this from Washington for us.

Jessica, former President Trump today, he's also making a new claim if you will about the documents taken by the FBI. What are you hearing?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Kate, Trump is now claiming that the documents are protected by executive privilege, also attorney-client privilege. But the reality here really is they still aren't his documents to keep. Under the Presidential Records Act they do belong to the National Archives. And then you add to that the fact that 11 sets of these documents have various levels of classified designations, including top-secret.

Democrats are now demanding that the director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, conduct an immediate review of these materials because of the national security implications of what was found at Mar-a-Lago. And of course concerns that it really could cause grave damage if that information fell into the wrong hands.

Then on the flipside here, you have Republicans and they are demanding more details. Some of them are now speaking out saying they want to see that affidavit that laid out the basis for that search warrant. The reality there, though, is it's highly unlikely to be unsealed because really the delicate information and the sources that investigators likely disclosed in this affidavit to get the judge to sign off on the search warrant.

You know, the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee, Mike Turner, he is also putting pressure on the Attorney General Merrick Garland to release more to justify last week's FBI search. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Attorney General Garland needs to provide these materials. You have bipartisan calls to do that. Put the materials in a room, let us see them, and then we can tell you what our answer is and what our, you know, discernment is of whether or not this is a true national security threat or whether or not this is an abuse of discretion by Attorney General Garland.

KEILAR: Do you take home documents marked special access?

TURNER: No.

KEILAR: And yet you're casting doubt on whether or not --

TURNER: And, you know, quite frankly --

KEILAR: Sorry. Go ahead.

TURNER: I've been in the Oval Office with the president. I'd be very surprised if he has actual documents that rise to the level of immediate national security threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:05:03]

SCHNEIDER: So still some questions out there as to what exactly these documents entail. But regardless tonight there are calls from both sides of the aisle for more information. All of these questions loom here, Kate. You know, what comes next for the former president? Maybe some of his top aides? The warrant in this all said that FBI agents were looking for possible violations of several criminal statutes. Sections of the Espionage Act, obstruction of justice, also the criminal handling of government records.

Now in addition to his executive privilege and attorney-client privilege claims, Trump has also defended his actions over the weekend saying that he declassified all of this material while he was in office. But, you know, we haven't seen any evidence of that, any documentation. And notably here, Kate, you know, none of these three statutes, none of them require that information be classified.

They only need to prove, you know, that there was intent to injure the United States or even that there was destroying or concealment of a document that would interfere with an ongoing investigation here. And we knew that there was an ongoing investigation. So a lot of questions tonight about what kind of potential legal jeopardy the former president or any of his aides actually might be in -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Jessica, for laying that out. I really appreciate it.

Joining me right now for more on this is CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen. He was the Democrats' special counsel during Trump's first impeachment trial, and CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, former special assistant to the George W. Bush White House. It's good to see you both. Thanks for being here.

Norm, you heard what Congressman Mike Turner suggests now that he and other Republicans, they would like access to these documents and to assess whether or not the documents pose a true national security threat, is how he puts it. What do you think of that? Who decides? Is that reasonable?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Kate, thanks for having me. No, I don't think it's reasonable. The attorney general has already taken the step of unsealing the warrant. The supporting materials. We know there were 11 sets of classified information that were taken out of there. There is no assurance that if you put that affidavit, which may have the names, for example, of informants in there, other national security information, that that won't leak out.

At some point you need to allow the government to investigate what appears to be a very serious violation of multiple laws. So I think that the defenders of the former president and the Republican Party are never satisfied. And you know what, Kate? If he gives them the affidavit they'll ask for something else. So he has to be firm about investigating this.

BOLDUAN: Scott, you're suggesting that this is like some strange form of when you give a mouse a cookie. I mean, like many Republicans they ran to the president's defense really immediately without any information. Then when the warrant was unsealed, it didn't help make the president look any better.

What kind of position are Republicans, those specific Republicans are out defending the president so forcefully, what kind of position does this put them in now?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it depends on what kind of Republican you are. I mean, if you're a diehard, ultra-MAGA to use the Democrat terminology these days, I mean, you die on every hill. I mean, when the president is attacked by Joe Biden or Merrick Garland or the media, you run up the hill and you prepare to die on that hill. So they're in their box.

The interesting thing that did happen this week, Kate, for me is that a lot of Republicans that I know who voted for the president twice, supported him, wanted him to succeed but now think it's time to move on, they did have a moment of reflexive defensiveness of Donald Trump this week because they weren't quite sure what was happening. And so you do hear a little bit of that. And I do think temporarily this has somehow given him a few points boost in the Republican Party.

I actually think Representative Turner, by the way, has a reasonable request here. I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive. I think the government can investigate what they are investigating. Obviously they are. And these members of the Intelligence Committee can take a look at this information. These things could be dual tracked. I don't have a problem with that. And it appears there are people in both parties who want to see these documents. What Republicans want to know is, was this raid justified? Was it

justified to go into the house of a former president and a probable future presidential candidate? That's really the question of the day. And I guess we'll find out the next few days whether people get more answers than they have right now.

BOLDUAN: Well, it seems like there are just more questions the more answers we get, though. I mean, until an investigation is done, that's how it's going to be.

I mean, Norm, so far we have seen -- heard a lot from the former president about this. He argued first and foremost that if they wanted the document all they had to do was ask. But then they also -- he suggested the documents could have been planted by the FBI. Clearly that is baseless and there's no reason to believe that. But also then that the documents were already declassified by him. And now this morning he says that the documents need to be returned because he claims there's privilege issues there. How does this hold up, Norm?

EISEN: Well, Kate, Donald Trump has a long history of lying. And this constantly shifting explanations coming on top of the evidence that we know that the government asked again and again.

[19:10:06]

They subpoenaed. They reportedly got a false written statement that all the classified was released. And then they had to do a search warrant in order to get these classified documents. It just doesn't hold up. I was in charge of these rules in the White House. I explained them to the then president and vice president. Everybody from on down. These are very serious rules because the information goes to our national security.

Kate, one last point. The president's statement today about the attorney-client and executive privilege documents, to me that's a hint that what might have been collected relates not just to these alleged document crimes but to the other investigations of obstruction of an official proceeding in Congress and of conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Those are the kinds of documents that the January 6th Committee has been fighting with the former president about. So we'll see. But he may have tipped his hand that there's more that could incriminate him.

BOLDUAN: Scott, you mentioned that you believe that the president got a temporary -- at least temporary boost with the former president, got a temporary boost when, as this all happened because people were -- Republicans were quick to jump to his defense. But you also say that in your mind, this can only end in one of two ways. Either former President Trump has to get indicted or Merrick Garland has to resign. When I heard you say that, I was wondering, why are there only two ways out of this in such an extreme way?

JENNINGS: There is no going back now. I mean, we're all at the circus now. We're under the big top and Merrick Garland is going to have to produce a clown on stilts juggling flaming bowling pins at this point. I mean, we're here, we're waiting, they have taken the unprecedented step of raiding the home of a former president and probable candidate. And they have said to the world we think maybe this guy violated up to three different laws, not including the laws they might be investigating him for on January 6th.

At this point how do you go back? How do you put the toothpaste back in the tube? If you don't indict him now you basically will open up the Department of Justice's credibility here for an attack that's like, well, I guess you did it for political purposes. To me, the credibility of the bureau and of the Department of Justice is on the line. The steps they've taken so bold to go after these documents and to accuse possibly the president -- former president of violating these laws. I just don't know how -- the Rubicon is crossed. How do you go back?

BOLDUAN: I mean, if we're talking about credibility, clearly the credibility of the former president is also on the line here with what he said in this whole thing.

JENNINGS: Of course. I totally agree with you.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

JENNINGS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Gentlemen, it's good to see you. Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

EISEN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, police, they are investigating an incident that occurred near the U.S. Capitol early this morning. And it is wild in details. After an armed man crashed his car into a barricade, fired multiple gunshots, then killed himself as officers approached. According to Capitol Police, no one else was injured and it doesn't appear any members of Congress were targeted, but still authorities say they don't know why the man chose the Capitol area.

Now to tensions between China and Taiwan and the United States in the middle of it. The Taiwanese military says that it detected 22 Chinese aircraft and six Chinse vessels today in the Taiwan Strait. This was before a group of U.S. lawmakers arrived in Taipei for a surprise two- day visit. You see a picture right there.

CNN's Blake Essig is in Taipei with more.

ESSIG: Kate, for the second time this month a U.S. congressional delegation has made an unannounced visit here in Taipei. Nearly two weeks ago it was House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. This time it's a delegation led by Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey.

Now during their two-day visit, Taiwan's Foreign Ministry says that the group of U.S. lawmakers will meet with the democratic island's president, foreign minister, and will discuss security and trade issues with members of parliament. Now despite escalating tensions between Beijing and Taipei as a result

of visits like this, Taiwan's Foreign Ministry took to social media to thank Senator Markey and his delegation for their timely visit and unwavering support. Of course, the timing of this visit has come as a bit of a surprise especially after China reacted so strongly against Speaker Pelosi's visit. That reaction involved at least six days of wargames surrounding Taiwan that marked a significant escalation in tensions.

Following the completion of those live fire drills, Beijing also issued a new version of its white paper addressing the, quote, "Taiwan question." In it, China proposes a one country, two systems model for unification which is similar to the one used in Hong Kong. The paper also didn't rule out using force against Taiwan to achieve reunification.

Now we don't know how Beijing will react to this latest congressional visit. But it's fair to say that China will respond, although it could be scaled back.

[19:15:01]

That's because the lower profile nature of this current delegation which includes one senator and four members of the House compared to House Speaker Pelosi who's third in line for the U.S. presidency -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Blake, thank you so much for that.

Coming up still for us, a truly tragic ending for Anne Heche as her family makes the very difficult decision to take her off life support.

Also ahead, Salman Rushdie, off a ventilator after he was violently attacked on stage. I'll speak to an eyewitness to that attack.

And the dire consequences of Antarctica's crumbling ice sheets. NASA's lead scientists in an eye-opening new study joins us live.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: A car crashing into a fundraiser for victims of a house fire has left one person dead and 17 others injured. Police say that the driver may actually be responsible for a second crime nearby. It all happened Saturday evening in Berwick, Pennsylvania.

[19:20:01]

And police say after plowing into the crowd, the suspect took off and then ended up beating another woman to death in a separate incident. A 24-year-old man has now been arraigned on two counts of homicide. And police say right now they still don't have a possible motive.

Want to turn now to this, though. We are learning more this evening about how author Salman Rushdie is doing after being stabbed during a speech in western New York. Rushdie's family says that he is now off a ventilator and has been able to say a few words at least but remains in critical condition.

According to the Chautauqua County D.A., Rushdie was stabbed 10 times with multiple wounds to his neck, stomach, and a puncture wound to his right eye that we are told could cost him his eyesight. The 24-year- old suspect remains behind bars after pleading not guilty to attempted murder and other charges. A man who was also injured in the attack spoke with Brian Stelter this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Can you take us to that Friday when you're on -- Friday morning, you're on stage, about to have a conversation. When did you first know something was wrong?

REESE: It was very difficult to understand. It looked like a sort of bad prank. And it didn't have any sense of reality. And then when there was blood behind him, it became real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I want to bring in another witness to this attack. American University professor Carl Levan. He's with us now.

Carl, thank you so much for taking the time. Can you describe for me what you saw as the program was getting started and this happened?

CARL LEVAN, WITNESSED STABBING ATTACK ON SALMAN RUSHDIE: Sure. Glad to be here, Kate. Well, I was sitting about 12 or 13 rows back and settling in for the morning lecture. The 10:45 a.m. lecture is always one of the biggest draws of the day. And many of us were expecting it to be a very widely attended lecture because Salman Rushdie is of great interest.

The amphitheater or the amp as we call it in Chautauqua seats about 5,000 people. And, you know, we were settling in and listening to the first host discuss the program and what was going to happen the rest of the day and so forth, and make various announcements as we usually hear. And instead we saw somebody run onto the stage. And from where I was sitting I could see this individual viciously and repeatedly stabbing Salman Rushdie.

And there were gasps of shock and people crying out in the audience. And many people stood up and then we looked at each other and quickly tried to figure out what the right thing to do was.

BOLDUAN: I'm sure like so many people, I mean, even the man who's on stage said he thought it first was maybe some kind of like weird prank. I'm sure it was almost impossible to believe what was happening before your eyes.

LEVAN: Yes, that's exactly right. You know, I mean, Chautauqua is a place where there's also sometimes, you know, theater. And a prank was, you know, a very brief possibility, but, you know, that was dismissed immediately when we saw people rush to the stage and urgently try to help. Chautauqua is a very caring, empathetic, compassionate community. So it was also no surprise to me to see doctors and other, you know, ordinary individuals rushing to the stage to do what they can to help him.

And it's a great testament to the Chautauqua community that the attacker was subdued, that Rushdie was saved and that they're courageously moving forward.

BOLDUAN: Yes. You sent a tweet after the attack, Carl, and part of it you wrote, "What courage will be expected of us next? To defend even the smallest freedoms." What do you mean by that?

LEVAN: Well, what I mean is that, you know, we as readers, as neighbors, as Americans are now at risk of hearing fewer and fewer voices if we allow extremism to silence those voices. And we're in a place in America where, I think, tolerance of difference should not require such great courage. You know, this was not just an attempt on Salman Rushdie's life. This was an attack on freedom of expression itself.

And Rushdie has courageously created space for so many authors and creative thinkers over the course of his career for them to express themselves and to have voice for their own experience. And because of that we're able to enlighten ourselves and learn about other cultures, and that's very much the intellectual tradition that Chautauqua aims to honor.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and it's -- talking about Chautauqua, it's worth noting. I mean, Rushdie's agent says like he's off the ventilator now. He begins now his long road to recovery but the fact that he has lived so many years with a fatwa against him and then he's attacked on this idyllic New York lecture hall. I mean, how do you reflect on that?

[19:25:09]

LEVAN: Well, you know, I think because he's lived so long with this cloud hanging over his head or this danger, you know, lurking in the shadows behind him, I think it made it a little bit harder to assess the risk. You know, the Chautauqua Institution, in order to encourage open exchange of ideas and intellectual diversity, you know, also fosters a truly trusting atmosphere. And so, you know, certainly somebody like Salman Rushdie, you know, with so many years of avoiding, you know, danger himself, you know, it's hard to imagine that it would happen there.

Of course, there have been other incidents, you know, early on after the fatwa was issued, you know, when he was engaged with a Japanese audience and elsewhere, but, you know, we certainly never would have imagined this in a place like Chautauqua.

BOLDUAN: The good news this evening is that he is beginning a road to recovery because after the injuries that you witnessed him sustained it was a big question of how this was going to end up.

LEVAN: Indeed.

BOLDUAN: So, thank you so much, Carl, for coming in. I really appreciate it.

LEVAN: My pleasure. Great to be here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Also this an update here. A representative for actress Anne Heche tells CNN that she will be taken off life support today. The 53-year- old was declared brain dead on Friday but was kept alive until an organ recipient was found. The LAPD says it's also ending its felony investigation into the car crash that nearly injured a woman inside the home that Heche crashed into at very high speed.

Coming up still for us, the CDC rolling back its guidance on coping with COVID-19. And it comes just as kids are going back to school. Next, I'm going to talk with the doctor about what it means for you and your family.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:31:28]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: The CDC scales back its guidance just in time for the new school year saying that there is no need now for social distancing or quarantines and that students who have been exposed to COVID, they don't need to test negative before returning to their classrooms.

Some prominent health officials disagree with this move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: I just think that CDC is sending the wrong message, and to be honest with you, I think CDC has caved into public opinion and not science.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: When I see the CDC sort of tell people don't worry about social distancing anymore. To me, it's like they've thrown their hands up in the air.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But it's not just about COVID anymore. The appearance or reappearance if you will of other pathogens like monkeypox and polio are raising fresh concerns about the country's -- the Federal government's ability to adequately respond to all of these public health threats.

Let me bring in right now Dr. Jeanne Marrazzo. She is a Professor of Infectious Diseases at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Your expertise more needed now than ever, Doctor? What do you think the CDC is saying in offering this new guidance?

DR. JEANNE MARRAZZO, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: Yes, great to be with you, Kate, as always. I think that the CDC with this guidance is bowing to reality in a way

that I don't find indefensible, as some others have stated, for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's not really fair to say that CDC is saying "Don't worry about it."

If you look at their guidance, it's actually quite detailed. They do talk about specifics regarding vaccine, they've been very clear that vaccination is a way that can help prevent severe disease, if not infection, particularly with the latest variant, BA.4 and BA.5.

So I think that they are just walking a line between recognizing the seriousness of COVID, we still are having over 400 people a day die, so it's not over. But also recognizing that we really do need somehow to get back to our lives and that's especially important for kids going back to school. We know how hard it was for kids to completely have that disrupted.

So they are between a rock and a hard place, to be honest. And I think they are doing the best that they can given the challenges we're facing.

BOLDUAN: And so then the next challenge coming up is, is this growing problem with monkeypox, more than 11,000 cases right now, and there is growing concern that college campuses could become, if you want to call them, hotspots or real problem areas this fall. How concerned are you about this virus especially as kids are heading back to campus right now?

MARRAZZO: So it's a great question, and the reason we are seeing such an explosive incidence of monkeypox, particularly in community of men who have sex with men, is largely related to sexual contact, right? And monkeypox is just transmitted through close skin to skin contact.

It doesn't have to be sexual contact, which is why we're seeing it in children. In particular, we've had several cases now in the United States, and in places where monkeypox is endemic, meaning that it's been around for a long time. Kids are affected just because there is skin to skin contact.

So I think the concern is that the virus is going to spread out of what we call the sexual networks that involve men who have sex with men, to people who are not necessarily in that category. I think it's a possibility. Is it something to be extremely concerned about? I think it's something to be vigilant about and I think we should be educating the people who are coming back to college and talk about things that can prevent all sexually transmitted infections, not just monkeypox.

[19:35:15]

MARRAZZO: So I think it's an opportunity to educate people and hopefully get them back into a more sexual health positive framework.

BOLDUAN: I really like the way you think and it is an opportunity, which is, I think, an important way that a lot of people should think about. You know, there's a new piece that was in Bloomberg exploring this

idea that COVID-19 is -- the way they put it is, "COVID-19 is just the beginning of the war on viruses." And the point they kind of explore in this piece is that global warming will actually lead to even more spillover, if you will, of diseases between animals and humans.

What do you think of that? I mean, how do you see this?

MARRAZZO: Well, I think it's a great -- monkeypox and COVID are great examples. It's not just global warming, it's really destruction of an environment that has protected these animal reservoirs from us disrupting them for a really long time, right?

When you are destroying habitat, when you are disrupting natural animal reservoirs, you're going to be coming into contact with these things more frequently. That's almost certainly what happened with SARS-CoV-2, right? And with all of the viruses that have emerged, particularly in the markets, for example, in China, because people are doing this.

With monkeypox, probably the origin came from direct contact with monkeys exactly as you would expect. There's something called bush meat, people do eat these animals, they're in contact with them, and so it's actually very easy if you go into these environments and continue to sort of confront these animals in their natural habitat that you're just going to be in contact with them.

We're also seeing climate change affecting the range of other infections, even in the United States. There are some fungal infections that we have only seen traditionally in the Deep South, and we're now seeing them move north because of climate change.

So clearly, it's something we're going to have to grapple with, and another reason to think about the effects of climate change on health.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Another aspect of it for sure.

It's great to see your Dr. Marrazzo. Thank you.

MARRAZZO: Thanks, Kate. Bye-bye.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, and up next, the White House looking to turn President Biden's winning streak into midterm momentum. We've got brand new reporting from CNN's Isaac Dovere on how they plan to do it when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:34]

BOLDUAN: Biden's major climate health and tax bill is headed to his desk for signature. It is part of a string of legislative victories that Democrats hope can give them a much needed boost heading into the midterms.

Joining me right now CNN senior reporter, Isaac Dovere. It's good to see you, Isaac.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Hi. How are you, Kate?

BOLDUAN: Biden's team is looking to capitalize on this recent success along a stream of successes, really. The big unknown is can they capitalize on it in time before voters actually have their say. Are you sensing any new feeling what the sense is from your sources close to the President on this?

DOVERE: Look, when I was in the White House last week, they are obviously in a much better mood than they were a couple of weeks ago. The polling had been really bad for Biden. It got so bad. There is a report in this piece that he was behind in Delaware.

But the White House feels like they can go forward now and say to Americans, look, this was Joe Biden getting these things done. This is his theory of the presidency. Congress can still work. Bills can still get passed. Prescription drugs, the politicians have talked about lowering the price on for decades, that's now done.

Other things that are in this climate bill -- electric vehicle credits, real investment in doing things about climate that, again, Democrats have talked about for decades, not just the prescription drug prices, but all of this stuff on top of all these other investments. They think that they can say, this is why Joe Biden is the President and you should rethink how you've been thinking about him for the last year.

BOLDUAN: You also have reporting as well that some of the West Wing are circulating a quote from Biden's South Carolina primary victory speech to remind everyone. Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To all those of you who have been knocked down, counted out, left behind, this is your campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That is -- that arguably was the moment of the Biden campaign. That was the moment Biden's campaign turned everything around. Is that what the White House thinks this moment means as well?

DOVERE: Basically. Look, I was there that night in Columbia and South Carolina. He had come in fourth in Iowa, he had come in fifth in New Hampshire, came in a distant second in Nevada, and then had this resounding victory in South Carolina and about 10 days after that, he was the presumptive nominee. That's the kind of thing that the Biden folks think might be happening again.

There are echoes of that, that there is this feeling that Joe Biden gets knocked around, he gets through the rocky times, he perseveres, and he pulls it out. And we'll see if that's what they can do here. But I was talking to one Biden adviser who said to me, look, this is the kind of record that you run on, thinking not just about the November midterms, but looking forward to those questions about Joe Biden's future and whether he will indeed run for President in 2024. They say there's no question about that, that this is where we're headed.

BOLDUAN: Yes. First and foremost, quieting all of those questions about if he will be running again in 2024. That's probably first on their order of business.

It's good to see you, Isaac. Thank you so much. Great reporting, as always.

DOVERE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a new study shows that ice shelves holding back glaciers are melting even faster than expected. That means sea levels around the world are under even greater threat right now. The lead author of an important new study joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:49:24]

BOLDUAN: There is concerning news about crumbling glaciers right now the ice sheets holding them back are melting much faster than expected and it is leading to more events like this.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

BOLDUAN: Awe-inspiring and terrifying. That is what a crumbling glacier looks like. This happened in Alaska two years ago. But new information shows that these events are happening more frequently in Antarctica. That's because the ice shelves there are collapsing at a faster rate than scientists even expected.

Ice shelves are permanent floating sheets of frozen freshwater. They take thousands of years to form and they act like buttresses holding back glaciers, preventing sea levels from rising too fast.

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BOLDUAN: A new study shows that in Antarctica, the shelves have been reduced by 12 trillion tons since 1997. That's twice the previous estimate.

And the amount of total ice sheet loss from glaciers calving alone is almost twice the size of Switzerland.

Chad Greene, the lead author of that study, he joins me live right now. He is a glacier scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab.

Chad, you can put numbers to a lot of this, but I feel like people almost get lost in how big the numbers are. Can you just put in perspective, first and foremost, what you were looking for? And what you did find in this study?

CHAD GREENE, GLACIOLOGIST, NASA JET PROPULSION LABORATORY: Yes, well, the scale of Antarctica is just something that is -- it's hard for me, I've been there multiple times. I've seen it with my own eyes. I look at it in data every day, but the scale still escapes me. So it's hard to remember sometimes that Antarctica is one and a half times the size of the United States, pile of miles thick with ice. So it has a tremendous amount of ice stored up and ready to contribute to sea level rise if it were to all melt, which this isn't an alarmist report so much as it is just that that is the end-member scenario.

BOLDUAN: We're looking at pictures, you probably can't see, but pictures of you and some of your time in Antarctica. It's good to see kind of you out in the field there.

Talk about -- it is a simple question, but it gets to the heart of what you were studying, finding, and looking for and found what the real world danger is of rising sea levels, Chad?

GREENE: Well, it's a slow, slow process. So the real world danger is that for life just becomes more expensive and more uncomfortable along the coasts, and so that pushes people inland further and creates more catastrophic storm events, such as what those we've seen recently.

BOLDUAN: The question is always, is there -- when you see the data that you put out, the findings you have and the more and more examples we see, the real question does become, is there time to turn this around? What do you think?

GREENE: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's absolutely time to turn this around. So one thing that we know is that greenhouse gas contributes to global warming. It is the number one reason we have global warming and as long as we keep pumping more greenhouse gas into the atmosphere, we're going to expect to have more and more global warming.

BOLDUAN: Congress just passed the biggest climate action ever taken by Washington in US history. Climate scientists all over the place have been applauding this from all corners that I've been speaking to.

Recent estimates do suggest that this bill could lower the US greenhouse gas emissions by as much as a billion tons per year by the end of 2030. That's clearly progress, but is it clear to you how much of a difference this would -- this will make -- would make considering what you're looking at with ice shelves collapsing at the rate that you're now saying?

GREENE: Well, the bill does aim to cut greenhouse gases by about 40 percent by the end of the decade, and so that is a significant and meaningful reduction in greenhouse gas. It is part of the way there.

It's not everything, if we want to completely do as much as we can, but yes, so anything we can do will reduce the amount of global warming and sea level rise that is expected from Antarctica.

BOLDUAN: This study that you put out is grabbing a lot of attention and it should, what are you looking at and studying next, Chad?

GREENE: Well, so what we found was that the glaciers of Antarctica, the ice shelves are kind of crumbling away at their edges. And when this happens, ice shelves get weaker. And when ice shelves weaken, these massive glaciers behind them speed up and contribute to sea level rise.

So the next big questions are, where are we going to see crumbling events or even total collapse events like earlier this year, we saw the collapse of Conger-Glenzer ice shelf.

One of the most interesting places to study right now is the Thwaites Glacier in West Antarctica. Thwaites is this huge glacier, it's about the size of Florida, miles thick with ice and what we've been finding is that its ice shelf has been crumbling away, retreating and every time this happens, the ice shelf gets weaker, and the glacier responds by speeding up and adding to sea level rise.

BOLDUAN: I fear and also look forward to what you come up with next in what you're studying, and so thank you so much, Chad. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your work.

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GREENE: Okay, thanks for that.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Coming up for us. There are new warnings tonight about threats being made to the FBI in the wake of the search at Mar- a-Lago.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is going to be joining us live with the very latest.

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