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Cheney Concedes And Vows To Keep Up Fight Against Trump; Sarah Palin Seeks Political Comeback In Alaska House Race; Alaska Sen. Murkowski Challenged By Trump-Backed Tshibaka; Giuliani Under Orders To Face Georgia Grand Jury; Biden Signs Sweeping Climate, Tax, Health Bill Into Law; Explosions Rock Russian Ammunition Depot In Crimea; Odinga Formally Rejects Kenya's Presidential Election Results; Top Presidential Candidates in Brazil Officially Launch Their Campaigns; Hackers and Election Officials Test Voting Machines. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired August 17, 2022 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:00]

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause. This is CNN Newsroom.

And Donald Trump's purge of the Republican Party has claimed its biggest wins so far, an overwhelming primary defeat for Liz Cheney, the congressional representative for Wyoming and the highest-ranking Republican lawmaker to vote to impeach former President Trump over the insurrection on Capitol Hill.

Cheney overwhelmingly lost the party's endorsement Tuesday to the Trump back candidate Harriet Hageman, who has embraced Trump's false claim that the 2020 election was rigged and has been sharply critical Cheney in the January 6 Congressional investigation. A defeat for Cheney would have been unthinkable two years ago. She comes from one of those prominent political families in Wyoming. Her father Dick Cheney served as U.S. Vice President.

But after the insurrection at the Capitol, Cheney began a self- declared mission to ensure Donald Trump would never again serve in the Oval Office, a message she had once again during her concession speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: We must be very clear eyed about the threat we face and about what is required to defeat it. I have said since January 6, that I will do whatever it takes to ensure Donald Trump is never again anywhere near the Oval Office and I mean it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And in Alaska right now, polls are either closed or like closing. Incumbent Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who also voted to impeach Trump is facing Kelly Tshibaka, who has been endorsed by the former president. And an attempted political comeback from former Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin. She's running for Alaska's at large House seat. We'll bring you the latest results and projections as soon as they become available.

But back in Wyoming, Cheney's Congress -- concession speech, I should, say was more like a call to action, wanting freedom must not die and cannot die. And we must -- sorry, and a warning that we must take action to ensure that freedom lived on.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny picks up the story from Jackson.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Congresswoman Liz Cheney in Wyoming concedes defeat in her congressional primary race. But as looking ahead, now the real work begins. In a sweeping speech outside of Jackson, Wyoming on Tuesday night, the congresswoman talked about the threats to democracy. She talked directly about former President Donald Trump saying she could have won reelection had she followed the path of election lies. She said she was simply not willing to do that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: Two years ago, I won this primary was 73 percent of the vote. I could easily have done the same again. The path was clear. But it would have required that I go along with President Trump's lie about the 2020 election, it would have required that I enable his ongoing efforts to unravel our democratic system and attack the foundations of our republic. That was a path I could not and would not take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: The speech from Cheney was infused with history. She's a student of history, a historian in her own right, talking about the young and fragile democracy that the United States indeed has. She talked about the need to bring Americans together. Republicans, Democrats, Independents, she urged them to join her.

What she did not say is join her for what exactly. She tiptoed to the line, clearly making the case. She's going to be involved in the fight ahead for democracy, but didn't say in what form that would take. She did not talk about a presidential run of her own, as many supporters at her event certainly would like her to do. But she did talk about the urgency facing the country and the imperative nature of Republicans and Democrats and Independents to come together against Donald Trump. She said her greatest goal is still keeping him from the Oval Office.

Jeff Zeleny CNN, Jackson, Wyoming.

VAUSE: Once again, we're joined by two Republican strategist Alison Stewart -- Alice Stewart, rather, a CNN Political Commentator, host of the podcast, hot mics from left to right. She's also the former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz. Also with us, Doug Heye, a three-decade long veteran of Republican politics, includes time served as Communications Director for the Republican National Committee. Thanks for you both coming back. DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, John.

VAUSE: OK. So Alice, first to you, what was really noticeable about Liz Cheney's campaign for this primary, was the fact she didn't actually have one. Most of time in Washington working on the January 6 investigation. It seems early on, she made this decision that her stand against Trump were pretty much cost her party's endorsement.

STEWART: Surely and she acknowledged that tonight in her concession speech, saying that no position is worth sacrificing the principles that we are elected for. And she understood that. And while she acknowledges that this may be the end of her time in Congress, it's the beginning of her battle to take it to Trump.

And look, Donald Trump was successful and keeping her out of her congressional seat. Now she is going to begin her battle to keep him out of the Oval Office and she made that quite clear.

[01:05:01]

And we heard in Hageman's victory speech is that she says this was about she represented the people of Wyoming and she says if people aren't listening to the people of their area or their district, they're not going to be elected.

So Hageman went into this, denying the election results, buying into Trump's claims of election fraud and that was victorious for her. And that was successful for her based on what the people in Wyoming wanted. I do not see that as a winning formula in every state, in every congressional district. But in a very red state like Wyoming and Donald Trump won by more than 60 points in 2020, this is a way to win a primary.

It certainly will win the general election in Wyoming. I don't see it as a blanket victory for the general election and all of these races across the country.

VAUSE: And, Doug, to you, what does Liz Cheney do now? Because she gives up a very powerful position in Congress, and especially on the January 6 committee, you know, a voice, you know, basically a megaphone, if you like, for her views against Trump. What does she do after that? Where does she go? How can she be effective?

HEYE: Yes, well, we don't know specifically what she's going to do but she's certainly hinted at this as the next step. And there's a lot of conversation, John, in Washington right now as to whether or not Liz Cheney has now become an Obi Wan Kenobi figure and that if you kill me, you only make me stronger.

If she was reelected, she still has her job to do as a member of Congress. Now she's free to do other things. And her speech tonight reminded me of Ronald Reagan in 1964, in his speech, a time for choosing. Liz Cheney made that choice very early on. This dictates what her future is, and it's why you've seen her on her team. Typically, when you know that you're going to lose an election, whether you know, you're going to lose it by five points, or by 50 points, what that does is it really affects how the candidate campaigns and what the team does. They're lethargic, they're going through the motions. They're not running the campaign through the tape like they normally would. That's not what happened with Liz Cheney. That's why her remarks tonight, really show that grace under pressure that Ernest Hemingway called courage.

VAUSE: And the person who defeated her, Harriet Hageman, Alice, you've mentioned this had her victory speech. She almost sort of channeled Donald Trump that, you know, the language that Trump uses, in describing Liz Cheney. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIET HAGEMAN, WYOMING REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR U.S. HOUSE: Wyoming has drawn a line in the sand that if we put you in power, you will be accountable to us, she will answer to us and you will do what is in our best interests. And if you don't, we will fire you.

Wyoming has put the politicians on notice, not just here, but all across this great country, that our representatives work for us and not the other way around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And Alice, you mentioned that that may not be a winning strategy in most races, but in this one, it seems it will be because Hageman, election denier, someone who's very critical with Cheney, she will be going to Congress just simply because of the overwhelming Republican, you know, majority in the state.

STEWART: Oh, without a doubt, and this is a state where you can get away with that and you can win successfully by doing just that. And look we even saw leading up to today, a lot of Democrats who were willing to vote as a Republican for Liz Cheney, simply for the fact they respected her and admired her for standing up to Donald Trump. And standing up to those that were election deniers.

Obviously, they would not vote for her in the general election. But they saw what Liz Cheney was doing as the right thing to do in terms of showing support for the integrity of our election. And she was a kamikaze pilot in there. She understood that this was not going to be a winning race long ago.

Tonight at her election party, she didn't even have television screens up where you could see the election results because they understood how this was going to play out. But she knew, made the decision some time ago that she was going to move full speed ahead not just with her vote on impeachment, but with her continuing efforts in the January 6 Commission to show that Donald Trump was wrong to incite the riot act on January 6.

And her goal moving forward is to make sure that he doesn't get back into the Oval Office. How she does that whether it is a presidential run herself, or continuing to push the narrative and hold Donald Trump's feet to the fire, again, she has only begun that battle.

VAUSE: Also looking at primaries in Alaska, the results coming in from there at this hour, and we'll get them to you since we have them. But there we know that former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, also former vice presidential nominee from 2008, trying to make a political comeback. For those who do not remember Sarah Palin as vice presidential nominee in 2008, here's a reminder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, THEN-U.S. REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There are next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.

They say the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull, lipstick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:10:04]

VAUSE: Those were the days. Doug, so to you, what are the chances that Palin here making some kind of comeback and, you know, in many ways, Palin was considered here sort of Trump -- pre-Trump, if you like.

HEYE: Yes, she was really that kind of salvo blow that was by John McCain who ended up a big Donald Trump opponent, obviously. And, you know, it's very hard to figure out exactly what's going to happen in Alaska. They're doing ranked choice voting for the first time, which is confusing for people to analyze. It's confusing for voters quite often.

So it's it's unclear how that's going to resolve itself. There's also a very big Senate race happening right now in Alaska, where Lisa Murkowski, who in 2010, lost her primary and then ran as a write in and ultimately overcame that and won her seat for reelection is up again and facing a very real challenge. Why? Because as our whole conversation has been about, she voted to impeach Donald Trump.

VAUSE: And Alice, you on that tell Lisa Murkowski, she's been sort of a storied representative within the Senate from Alaska with you in bringing that right and campaign to begin with back in 2010. And she's been there ever since.

STEWART: Yes, she is someone that you'd never want to rule her out, because she has, as Doug said, the five yards in the past. But the only thing with her that may cause her some setback is that not only does she vote for impeachment against Donald Trump, she has been not as consistent on the conservative votes in Washington as others have on certain issues that are important to the people of Alaska. So it might be more than just her opposition to Donald Trump, but also some of her policy votes that could come back to haunt her in this election.

VAUSE: Quickly to Doug, I mean, Liz Cheney, her 93 percent record of voting with Trump or voting for Trump policies, you know, wins before the January 6 insurrection, so how much does that actually impact, you know, who gets the primary and who doesn't?

HEYE: Yes, we define conservatism now as as how do you stand for or against Donald Trump. And, you know, William F. Buckley, who founded National Review used to say that a conservative is somebody who stands up toward history and says, stop. By that definition, Liz Cheney is the most conservative Republican in the party right now.

VAUSE: And we'll see what happens. Doug and Alice, thank you both for coming back and being with us.

HEYE: Thank you.

VAUSE: Appreciate your time. Take care.

STEWART: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: Well, the 2022 primaries take place the investigation into Donald Trump's efforts to overturn Georgia's election results in 2020 is now wrapping up. A judge ordering former Trump Attorney General Ellis to appear before the grand jury in Georgia vitiating the former president's election schemes. Fulton County investigators believe Ellis helped Trump and his associates push claims of election fraud in Georgia after Trump lost to Joe Biden court date is yet to be decided.

Meantime, Trump's former personal attorney Rudy Giuliani expected to appear before that special grand jury later today in Atlanta. Prosecutors informed him on Monday. He's now a target of a wide- ranging investigation into whether Team Trump broke any state laws while attempting to have George's 2020 electoral results overturned. And Team Trump's legal troubles do not end there in what is now a criminal investigation.

Two of the former president's most senior aides have been questioned over the handling of classified documents, which were found at the sprawling Mar-a-Lago state. CNN's Jessica Schneider has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New revelations that former President Trump's two top White House lawyers interviewed with the FBI about classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, and his deputy Pat Philbin were Trump's designated representatives to the National Archives when Trump left office.

They could have insight about what was taken to Mar-a-Lago and why 11 sets of classified documents remain there until last Monday, when FBI agents searched Trump's Palm Beach home. The new details come as the court fight for more information about the search is looming. A federal judge announcing he'll hold the hearing Thursday on whether to publicly release the affidavit that provided the basis for last Monday search.

The Justice Department seeking to keep it secret saying any release would reveal highly sensitive information about witnesses, specific investigative techniques, and it would serve as a roadmap to the government's ongoing investigation. CNN and other media outlets have asked the judge to unseal the affidavit and Trump himself must weigh in on whether he wants it released by tomorrow.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think it says there are very significant problems here for President Trump and many of his advisers post presidency.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Trump has repeatedly railed against the search, calling it a witch hunt, and accusing FBI agents of stealing three of his passports. But Trump's attorney said they'd been returned by Monday night with the FBI putting out a statement to make clear they were simply swept up in the search as his routine.

In executing search warrants, the FBI follows search and seizure procedures ordered by the courts then returns items that do not need to be retained for law enforcement purposes.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP'S LAWYER: Whether you're a Republican or Democrat, this is not a machine you want counting your votes.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Meanwhile, Trump's former lawyer Rudy Giuliani has officially become a target in another criminal investigation. This one being led by an Atlanta area prosecutor into efforts by Trump and his allies to flip election results in Georgia claiming it was rigged.

[01:15:05]

GIULIANI: The recount being done in Georgia will tell us nothing because these fraudulent ballot will just be countered again.

They look like they're passing out dope, not just ballots. It is quite clear this feeling hoax.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Giuliani is scheduled to appear before the grand jury, but it's still unclear if he will answer questions or plead the fifth.

GIULIANI: The statements that I made of -- are either attorney client privileged because they were between me and him, or they were being made on his behalf in order to defend them.

BOLTON: President Trump may be right behind him in terms of liability. If Rudy is in trouble as the target of an investigation, then I think Trump almost certainly is as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And as for the Justice Department, they're making clear in a court filing this week that that classified information investigation is still ongoing. In the meantime, the battle is escalating between two top House Democrats and the DHS Inspector General. Members of Congress, Bennie Thompson and Carolyn Maloney, they're accusing IG Joseph Cuffari of obstructing their investigation into the missing Secret Service text messages.

That allegation was in a letter released on Tuesday afternoon. There's no response from the Inspector General's office just yet. Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.

VAUSE: The White House and Democrats celebrating a major legislative victory, President Joe Biden signed the $750 billion Inflation Reduction Act into law Tuesday, calling it one of the most significant pieces of legislation in U.S. history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Too often, we confuse noise with substance. Too often, we confuse setbacks with the feet. Too often, we hand the biggest microphones or the critics and the cynics who delight in declaring failure. All those committed to making real progress do the hard work of governing.

Making progress in this country is a -- as this big and complicated. Ours clearly is not easy. It's never been easy. But with unwavering conviction, commitment and patients, progress does come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: This legislation includes almost $370 billion to fight climate change. Also it gives Medicare the power to negotiate some drug prices, caps Medicare, out-of-pocket drug costs at $2,000. Extends the Affordable Care Act subsidies for another three years. Also imposes a 15 percent minimum corporate tax on the largest U.S. companies.

Much more to come here on CNN, our coverage of critical primary races in Wyoming and Alaska, that's next. Also Russia blaming sabotage of explosions ripped through another military base in occupied Crimea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:21:39]

VAUSE: For the second time in a week, explosions have rocked a Russian military base in Crimea. Local officials say Tuesday's blasts and ammunition depo wounded at least two people. The Russian defense ministry saying it was sabotage.

Ukraine though not claiming responsibility for the incident. But President President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has vowed to retake Crimea, which Moscow illegally annexed in 2014. More details now from CNN David McKenzie reporting in from Kyiv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Explosions peppering the horizon in Russian occupied Crimea. Just a few miles away, commuters reacting in shock filming the blasts with their mobile phones. Even the buses moving they say, 6 kilometers away. The bus is shaking.

The blast at an ammunition depot in northern Crimea, causing damage to power lines, a power plant railway tracks and residential buildings, branded sabotage by Russia's military. Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the incident, but a Ukrainian presidential adviser called it demilitarization inaction.

It's the second major security incident in Crimea in just one week. Last Tuesday, massive explosions at a Russian airbase on Crimea's west coast, close to beach going tourists, a major psychological blow. The Russian Defense Ministry blaming it on accidental detonation of ammunition.

On the southern battlefield, inspectors from the Atomic Energy Agency still unable to get into the massive Zaporizhzhia power plant to ensure its safety.

Russian officials blaming the U.N. for the delay, the U.N. denies that saying it's ready to provide security and logistics. Russia and Ukraine blame each other for dangerous strikes near the plant which has continued to operate.

President Volodymyr Zelensky Monday calling on the world to introduce tough sanctions as a response to Russia's, quote, nuclear blackmail.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): The provocative shelling of the territory of the plant continues. Undercover of the plant, the invaders are shelling nearby towns and communities. The Russian military hides munitions and equipment at the facilities of the plant.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCKENZIE: Now Ukrainian officials still haven't commented directly on those blasts in Russian occupied Crimea. But late Tuesday, President Zelenskyy did warn Ukrainian nationals to keep away from Russian military assets in Crimea.

David Mckenzie, CNN, Kyiv.

VAUSE: And for the first time since the Russian invasion, a shipment of humanitarian food aid bound for Africa has left Ukraine. The U.N. Charter ship is headed to Ethiopia. Onboard more than 23,000 metric tons of wheat. Part of the World Food Program's response to a devastating drought and food crisis in the East African country. Shipment should arrive in about two weeks.

Still to come, score another win for Donald Trump's Republican Party. One of his most fierce critics in Congress, Wyoming's Liz Cheney goes down in flames, the GOP primary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:29:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: This primary election is over. But now the real work begins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: 29 minutes past the hour. Welcome back, everybody. Liz Cheney there, one of 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump. Now she's the eighth who will not be returning to Congress next year. CNN projects she will lose the Wyoming Republican House primary to Trump-backed attorney Harriet Hageman.

Cheney in her role as Vice Chair of the January 6 committee has been outspoken in her condemnation of Trump, while Hageman has embraced Trump's false claims about election fraud in 2020. The last polls have also just closed in Alaska. Incumbent Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski is expected to advance to the general election against three other candidates.

[01:29:20]

And former governor and vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, looking for a political comeback. She's running for an open House seat.

Some Republicans, though, are talking about a potential presidential bid for Liz Cheney in 2024. For now, she says she is committed to keeping Donald Trump out of the Oval Office. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: This is a fight for all of us together. I am a conservative Republican, I believe deeply in the principles, and the ideals on which my party was founded. I love it's history, and I love what our party has stood for. But I love my country more.

So I ask you tonight to join me. As we leave here, let us resolve that we will stand together -- Republicans, Democrats, and Independents -- against those who would destroy our republic. They are angry, and they are determined. But they have not yet seen anything like the power of Americans united in defense of our constitution and committed to the cause of freedom.

There is no greater power on this earth. And with God's help, we will prevail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Harriet Hageman says voters will no longer tolerate representatives who do not represent them. She fired up a raucous crowd of supporters at her victory party in Cheyenne, Wyoming and that is where she put the elites on notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIET HAGEMAN (R), WYOMING CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Wyoming has spoken on behalf of everyone who is concerned that the game is becoming more and more rigged against them. And what Wyoming has shown today is that while it may not be easy, we can dislodge entrenched politicians who believe that they have risen above the people they are supposed to represent --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: David Siders is a national political correspondent for Politico and he joins me from Sierra Madre in California. Welcome back.

DAVID SIDERS, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Good to be here.

VAUSE: Ok, is there a way for Cheney to run in the Republican Party's primary in 2024 that would not divide the anti Trump vote and essentially hand Trump the nomination?

SIDERS: I think the only way for her to run successfully as a Republican candidate, is if he can clear out the rest of the field. So I'm talking about the Hogans of the world, the Maryland governor who is also a Trump critic. But if that wing could consolidate to one, that's one big if. And if Trump is weak enough or not running so that there are a lot of mini Trumps running.

Then you could see a scenario where Cheney even pulling 35 percent of the vote could stack up some primaries. That is a scenario that could happen, it's a long shot but it's a possibility.

VAUSE: It's really been quite the winning streak for the former president and the candidates he's endorsed. Are we looking though at another weak (ph) moment, you know, back in 2010, when you know, crazy candidates were nominated. More nuts than a bag of (INAUDIBLE) someone said at the time. And Republicans really paid the price for that in the midterms?

SIDERS: It's possible. I mean certainly there are some signs I think in the last couple of weeks that what looked like a wipeout for Democrats in the fall is maybe not going to be so bad. I don't think any even Democratic, especially at this point, that Democrats will hold on to the House.

But I do think the landscape has shifted some, in part, because of the candidates Republicans are nominating in some swing states. Not juust -- Wyoming is going to have a Republican congresswoman, whether -- you know, it's not going to be Cheney but they have a Republican.

But in some of these swing states, who they are nominating means that they will have some tough elections and Democrats will pick up some wins. So it's possible Democrats end up with, you know, less than traffic catastrophic losses of the House and that they keep the Senate. And that would be I think a successful midterm here for them.

VAUSE: And obviously, you know, Donald Trump's voice matters a lot, and the "Washington Post" looked at just how influential he is in primaries held in 21 states so far this year. Every race for federal or statewide office with power over elections, 469 contests in all, more than half of the Republican winners about 250, they'd embraced Trump's false claims about his defeat two years ago to Joe Biden.

And if you look closer at Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, all battleground states -- 54 winners out of 87 contests have embraced those claims about the election being rigged as well.

You know, there is a lot in that story. But, what is interesting is that if you look at Pennsylvania, the nominee for governor there which has the most influence over the results of any election is an election denier. He was at the January 6 insurrection on Capitol Hill. He has not denied it. There is video of him there.

This is Doug Mastriano, this is a guy who has embraced QAnon in some ways. He is somebody who can actually have a direct influence over whether the votes were counted because he says he has his handpicked secretary of state.

[01:34:51]

VAUSE: And then there is a similar situation too in Arizona. So there is a situation brewing here with all these election officials up and down the ballot where there will at least be chaos, possibly, in any sort of close election for 2024.

SIDERS: I think that's exactly right, and I think that's what people need to be bracing for is the possibility that some of these Republicans -- Mastriano is trailing pretty badly right now in Pennsylvania. There's somebody who sent passes (ph) to the Capitol or organized them anyway that the Republican nominee Dan Cox in Maryland as you mentioned, Kari Lake -- at the state level, there are election deniers being nominated, not just for governor, but for secretary of state as well. Some of these are leaders of the cause.

And so I do think that if democracy was tested, American democracy was tested in 2020, and it clearly was. Depending on what happens in the midterms, the test in 24 may just be that much greater. And I do think there is reason for a real sober kind of thoughtfulness about that election coming up.

VAUSE: We're looking at a situation now that the checks and balances that held or worked in 2020 will not be there in 2024 or they'll be greatly weakened than they were.

SIDERS: Certainly, if you look at the, you know, the number of Republican Congress members who were unwilling to vote to certify the election, I mean you imagine if the House is held by Republicans, that will be a lot different. Now well start long before the election will be kind of a justification for some -- you know, they'll have power in that way.

But then at the state level that's also significant in the courts. I mean you can imagine a scenario where in 2020, if you're a Democrat looking at this being alarmed, you see 2020 as a test run where Trump came close to maybe overturning an election or at least in some people's estimates at least. And now there's much more time to prepare.

And so you can see a scenario in 2020 where you have -- or 2024, where you have 50 cases going up to the Supreme Court. And then who knows what this court rules.

So I do think there is reason to be watchful and that these elections matter. I mean there's a reason you and I are talking about secretary of state races for goodness sakes or even gubernatorial races which normally wouldn't get a lot of attention. But they are clearly very important this year.

VAUSE: Yes absolutely. David, thank you for being with us. David Siders there from Politico.

SIDERS: Thank you.

VAUSE: Well a contentious political fight underway in Brazil. The stakes in this year' presidential election could not be higher. We'll have those details after the break.

[01:37:24]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'DONNELL: Kenya's opposition leader Raila Odinga is refusing to accept the results of last week's presidential election. The Electoral Commission declared his main rival William Ruto winner and the country's next president. But in public remarks Tuesday, Odinga formally rejected the outcome of the vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAILA ODINGA, KENYAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I will totally, and without reservations, reject the presidential results announced yesterday by Mrs. Chebukati.

I want to commend our supporters for remaining calm and achieving the peace. I asked them to continue to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Odinga is now planning a court challenge. Officially Ruto won by a slim margin, just over 50 percent but a number of election commissioners disagreed with the tally, calling it mathematical absurdity.

And now to Brazil where the presidential campaign season is underway with two very different candidates leading the pack.

And CNN's Isa Soares has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The presidential campaign has only just started but many are already afraid of how it may end with hundreds marching on the capitol in defense of Brazilian democracy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened in the United States of America and it is happening in this country. The constant attacks against our democratic institutions.

SOARES: The man that they say is stoking this fear is incumbent president himself, who has been repeating baseless attacks on the electoral system, promising his opponents a tough fight as he launched his bid for a second term. JAIR BOLSONARO, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We are the

majority, we are the good ones. And we are willing to fight for our freedom and our homeland.

SOARES: For over a year, Bolsonaro has been criticizing electronic voting saying, without any evidence, that it is open to fraud. His call for printed ballots to be used alongside electronic ones. And in doing so, has his eyes fully on the presidential prize.

BOLSONARO: I have three alternatives for my future -- jail, death, or victory.

SOARES: It's a rhetoric that both his staunch supporters and party fully back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe President Bolsonaro's criticism to be valid. We have a portion of society, around 15 to 20 percent, which also doubts electronic ballots.

SOARES: But what his party says is a quest for transparency, many argue is dangerous rhetoric. Even prompting civil society figures to sign a letter for democracy, a manifesto in defense of democratic values.

Judge Luis Barroso was the president of the Supreme Electoral Court until the beginning of the year, helping organize elections at a national level. He tells me the need for a manifesto shows some are afraid for Brazilian democracy.

LUIS BARROSO, BRAZILIAN SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: The number of times that people asked me if I fear a coup d'tat, means that there is something strange going on.

SOARES: And for the man vying for Bolsonaro's job, the perceived threat on democracy has a clear origin.

LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every day he offends the Supreme Court. Every day, he offends an electoral justice. And every day he offends those who do not like him.

[01:44:59]

SOARES: Returning to the ballot after more than a decade on the sidelines, and after being convicted for corruption, the former president and Bolsonaro's main opponent says he wants to focus on Brazil's post pandemic recovery.

DA SILVA: I am older but I am much better. With much more strength and with much more courage to make this country succeed.

SOARES: But Brazil's success is dependent on a smooth election. Despite the rhetoric from populist President Jair Bolsonaro, Judge Barroso tells me the electoral system is strong enough to handle the criticism and says there is some good news.

BARROSO: Around 80 percent of the population trusts the system despite all of the attacks we have been suffering. And our role is to assure that whoever wins in the October elections, will be inaugurated on January the 1st and the plane is going to land safely.

SOARES: Still, as the campaign kicks off and the rhetoric hardens, political turbulence cannot be ruled out. And the ride could still be bumpy.

Isa Soares, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Still to come, election conspiracies are alive and well in Brazil but born in the United States where election officials and hackers are working together to secure voting machines ahead of this year's midterm elections. We'll have a report from Las Vegas when we come back.

[01:46:23]

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VAUSE: Hackers and election security officials have gathered in Las Vegas with two goals -- to test the security of voting machines, also not stoking election conspiracy theories.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRI HURSTI, ELECTION SYSTEM EXPERT: So the conspiracy claims, all the time evolve. Once one the head of the hydra is cut down, the second head pops up.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've had two years of nonstop conspiracy theories about the 2020 election many of which center around these -- voting machines. That they were in some way hacked and used to steal votes and to steal the election.

We are here at DefCon in Las Vegas, for what some people have called hackers summer camp and hackers are doing their very best this weekend to break into these voting machines.

Isn't what you're doing here by tearing these machines apart, and showing that they can be vulnerable. Is that not just going to play into more of the fears, more of the conspiracy theories about the election?

CAT TERRANOVA, DEFCON VOTING VILLAGE ORGANIZER: I think a lot of these fears and conspiracies really thrive in darkness. Here, we have like a clear box model where we opened things up, we're able to look inside. And you're actually able to get your hands on these voting machines yourselves.

It's not that there are not vulnerabilities within these machines that need to be addressed. Just because there are vulnerabilities doesn't mean that they were manipulated or exploited in the way that certain parties are saying that they are.

O'SULLIVAN: Harri, you spent the weekend tearing apart voting machines. You talked a lot about vulnerabilities. But have you ever found evidence that vulnerabilities have been used to change the results of an American election?

HURSTI: Never. Same comments with all the other experts. We've also said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. We've never seen that kind of evidence.

CHRIS KREBS, FORMER DIRECTOR, DHS CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY: Vulnerabilities exist in almost all software, regardless of where you find it, even in, you know, nuclear power plants you'll find that.

There are a system of defenses and protections to make sure that a bad guy can't get to them. And those exist in voting systems as well.

O'SULLIVAN: Chris Krebs oversaw election security at DHS for the 2020 election before being fired by Trump for speaking out against conspiracy theories.

KREBS: The biggest vulnerability in democracy is the people. It's the brain. It's the perception hack.

O'SULLIVAN: Cyber experts here say the big challenge in the 2022 midterms is not the machines, it's misinformation.

HURSTI: I'm afraid that even when I know vulnerabilities of the systems, I'm more afraid about misinformation claiming an attack which actually didn't happen, and which will get then a hold in people's minds.

NATE YOUNG: We want to focus on pushing security forward, and instead we're responding to death threats.

O'SULLIVAN: Nate Young and Michael Moore know all about conspiracy theories. They're part of the election security team for Maricopa County in Arizona, a ground zero of election lies.

They're here to work with hackers to make elections more secure, by exposing vulnerabilities and getting them fixed.

NATE YOUNG, DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY, MARICOPA COUNTY RECORDER: We have not seen a single accusation or conspiracy theory that has produced any actual, tangible results.

O'SULLIVAN: Conspiracy theories like those being posed by the likes of My Pillow guy, who baselessly claims countries like China have hacked American elections and changed votes.

MIKE LINDELL, CEO, MYPILLOW: No, just forget about the evidence. If I'm right, they are trying to take our countries right now. Do you care? Would that bother you?

O'SULLIVAN: How does that feel as a voting systems expert? Listening to people like Mike Lindell?

HURSTI: It makes me sad. It makes me sad from the fact that all of the resources, all of the energy which could've been used for something beneficial, improving is now misused.

O'SULLIVAN: Misused to perpetuate misinformation that undermines American democracy.

KREBS: The further an edit (ph) goes on, the firmer it gets set in stone. You know, people lie long enough and many times it becomes kind of that reality. Their reality.

Ultimately, this comes down to the voters. What do people want? Do we want to be a democracy? And if the answer is yes, better start damn acting like it.

[01:54:52]

O'SULLIVAN: And while many of the machines you saw there in that piece are used in the U.S., they're also used in the countries all around the world. And we saw hackers putting them to the test there.

One thing that is just very important to underline is that as the expert said in that piece, you know, they're hackers. They want to be able to break into systems, to poke holes in them, to find flaws.

They said they have not seen in the U.S. any kind of vulnerabilities at the scale where votes would be changed in a way that would overturn an election despite what the Pillow guy, and despite what the former U.S. president is saying. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Thanks to Donie O'Sullivan for that report.

Now meme stocks are back in a big way. Shares of home goods chain Bed, Bath and Beyond surging on Tuesday. At one point the stock was up more than 78 percent, before giving back a lot of those gains at the close of the day up 29 percent.

Trading was halted multiple times because of volatility. An army of traders coordinating on social media sites like Reddit, have been buying shares. And the stock received a big boost, after revelations that activist/investor Ryan Cohen made a major bet on the stock price going up. Currently he's chairman of GameStop, another meme stock favorite.

Thank you for joining us for this hour. I'm John Vause.

CNN NEWSROOM with my colleague and friend Rosemary Church after a very short break.

I'll see you back here tomorrow.

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