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Today, Judge Hears Arguments on Unsealing Mar-a-Lago Affidavit; Suspect in Salman Rushdie Stabbing Indicted; White House Ramping Up Fight Against Monkeypox. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 18, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bianna Golodryga.

Right now, the Biden administration intensifying its efforts to slow the spread of monkeypox. Starting Monday, HHS will make an additional 1.8 million vaccine doses available. The administration also taking steps to offer protection for the most vulnerable populations, making more vaccine available for places hosting large LGBTQI-plus events.

Now, this comes as the CDC reports more than 13,500 monkeypox cases across the country.

We're also following a critical day in court in South Florida. A federal judge will consider requests to unseal investigators' probable cause affidavit for the FBI search of former President Trump's Mar-a- Lago home. The DOJ opposing its release, saying that keeping the information secret is vital to this investigation.

SCIUTTO: Let's begin today in South Florida, CNN Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz is there, she's been covering this for some time.

We spoke to a lot of lawyers leading up to this and they say the chances of the judge ruling the release this are low, but, listen, we never know. So, what can we expect from today's hearing and do we expect a decision today?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right. You never know. But today, what we are really doing in court is we are listening closely to what the Justice Department has to say about this investigation into the handling of potentially classified materials, presidential records.

The Justice Department let on a little bit so far since this search warrant was released about what this investigation is about. They said it implicates highly classified material, that they want to protect witnesses both past and in the future. They've said that there is an ongoing grand jury criminal investigation, it could result in indictments.

So, they are arguing today about secrecy, the Justice Department wants secrecy. They want it specifically to remain over this affidavit, this confidential narrative that would have been written by the Justice Department, presented to the judge, to justify why they needed to go into the former president's home, Mar-a-Lago, and retrieve all of these boxes last Monday.

But on the other side, the media, we have been in court, CNN included, arguing for transparency in the public interest here because of this historic nature of this set of events. This is what the media has written so far in court. Not since the Nixon administration has the federal government wielded its power to seize records from a former president in such a public fashion. So, that's the argument presented to the judge.

Jim, there could be a decision from the judge in this case today, or they could come -- the judge could come back at a later date, making a decision later, taking a little bit of time to think through all of the implications here. There is a lot of political implications.

We also are waiting to see what Donald Trump's team has done. They have not taken a position as of this morning in court, in any written materials. They are potentially coming to court today. We could see them make an argument before the judge, but this really is about the confidential protects, balancing that against the public's need for an explanation here.

And we do know that Republicans have tried to use secrecy as a reason that they are arguing against the leadership of this administration of the Justice Department. There have even been calls for defunding the FBI from some Republicans, but the White House, President Biden, have pushed back firmly against that, that's not on -- even on the table right here. Jim and Bianna?

SCIUTTO: Well, of course, CNN will be covering that decision live as it comes.

[10:05:02]

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

In a separate case, in New York, the former Trump Organization CFO, Allen Weisselberg, years of a relationship with the former president, is expected to plead guilty today to a 15-year long tax fraud scheme. He arrived in court, you see the pictures there, just moments ago. CNN has learned that the long time Trump loyalist is expected to receive a five-month prison sentence.

GOLODRYGA: CNN Correspondent Jean Casarez is following the story. So, Jean, Weisselberg would not sign up to cooperate with the investigation, but we now know that doesn't mean that he won't be forced to cooperate sometime down the line.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think that's an interesting part of all of this. We want to tell everyone we believe this hearing in New York City is beginning right now. And we do believe that he is going to plead guilty to a 15-count indictment alleging tax evasion. It has to do with the former CFO of the Trump Organization, perks that he got while he was employed for so many years, such as a Manhattan apartment, two Mercedes-Benz, private schooling for two of his children, and they amounted to, according to prosecutors $1.7 million.

But the whole point, they wanted him to cooperate. They wanted him to flip in the investigation of Donald Trump and the family that is going on right now. No charges at this point, but there is an investigation. What he will agree to do is to testify for the prosecution in a criminal trial that is actually set for October against the Trump Organization in all of this. And, right, the Trump Organization has been charged criminally, also in a 15-count indictment, so legal fiction, you can't send a corporation to prison, but you can do this. And he's agreed that he will testify if asked.

Now, the original indictment called for 15 years in prison, but if this plea agreement, if he pleads guilty, which we think he will, it would be five months in prison, which would amount to actually 100 days, in reality.

GOLODRYGA: Jean Casarez, thank you.

Well, joining us now to talk about all of this is Elie Honig, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former Assistant U.S. Assistant for Southern District of New York. Elie, always great to see you.

So, it appears that Weisselberg is attempting to thread a needle here, willing to implicate the Trump Organization, perhaps, but not the former president himself.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Bianna. This is halfway cooperation and this is really in the big picture good news for Donald J. Trump, the individual. It is bad news for the Trump Organization, as jean said. There is a trial coming up of the Trump Organization. That's not a human being. If they're convicted, nobody will go to prison because of that. They could be hit with major financial penalties. That could even result in sort of the closing of the Trump Organization.

But the fact that Allen Weisselberg is not going to cooperate against Donald J. Trump or any of the Trump children is really the big news here. And it means that it is increasingly unlikely that we will see criminal charges out the Manhattan D.A. against individuals based on the Trump Organization.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Another case, and there are a lot to throw at you today because it's all in the news, the ongoing investigation of Trump's handling of the classified documents, top secret and otherwise, down at Mar-a-Lago.

The phrase that continues to stick out to me, ongoing grand jury criminal investigation, as the DOJ describes it. Does ongoing mean just that they're considering whether there is criminal liability involved by the president and others, or that they're still looking for more documents or both? HONIG: Both, Jim. We used to say that your investigation is ongoing until the minute the jury comes back with a verdict. You're always continuing to look for more information as a prosecutor. And, yes, I think there are sort of two lanes here.

There was some question about, well, did DOJ go in and seize those documents from Mar-a-Lago just because they wanted to retrieve the documents for national security or are they looking at potential criminal charges? The thing to remember is you can't get into a property, a private residence based on a search warrant unless you prove by probable cause, less beyond a reasonable doubt, but that you have probable cause of a specific federal crime. So, this is really both of those things, Jim.

GOLODRYGA: So, okay, Elie, from New York to Florida, now let's to Georgia, and that investigation there by the Fulton County D.A., Fani Willis, into the attempt to overturn the election there. The Republican governor, Brian Kemp, is asking the judge to throw out the subpoena requiring him to appear before the special grand jury and here is how the Fulton County D.A. responded to that letter and said that they are hoping to focus on Producing records to the grand jury that includes any documents explaining what Trump or allies were thinking or doing, any logs of calls, emails, letters, documents by Trump or others trying to influence election results.

It got a bit heated, though, because the two exchange letters, I guess it wasn't the governor itself that the D.A. was attacking, but perhaps his attorney in his rationale for not appearing before the jury.

[10:10:09]

Explain all this to us.

HONIG: Yes, Bianna. So, this is a heated exchange really between the governors, representatives and the D.A.'s office. We have seen a reoccurring pattern here in this case where the D.A. has been subpoenaing powerful people, Senator Lindsey Graham, the Georgia governor, Brian Kemp, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and others. And they have uniformly pushed back and said, I should not be subject to this subpoena and they, thus far, have uniformly lost. And I think the lesson is it is really hard to brush off a criminal grand jury subpoena.

We saw plenty of people casually brush off congressional subpoenas from the January 6th committee with no real consequence. This is different. This is a grand jury criminal subpoena, it's very difficult to sort of wriggle out of this.

The dispute between the D.A. and the governor here really has to do with timing. The governor alleges you time this intentionally to coincide with the upcoming elections, it is political, the D.A. says, no, you have been dragging your feet, you're the one who is resisting just coming in and testifying, which is all we're asking you to do with this subpoena.

There is some truth both ways. It took the D.A. a year-and-a-half to even start the grand jury. That is a fair point for the governor. But the governor has been resisting this and I think, ultimately, he will lose and be ordered to come in and testify.

SCIUTTO: So, Elie, I'm going to ask you a question I get asked all the time, and I'm sure you've been asked as well. There are a lot of investigations under way, some may go nowhere, we saw that with one of the New York investigations. Which of these, in your view, is furthest along towards some sort of conclusion?

HONIG: Well, it is clear to me that using the documents that Bianna just cited, that the Fulton County D.A. Is the closest one to some sort of conclusion, and of the various investigations, the most likely to end up in an indictment of Donald J. Trump. I'm not saying that is certain. I'm not even saying that's more likely than not, but of the four or five pending investigations.

But it is really important that we keep in mind with the Fulton County investigation, with the DOJ investigation, you name it, an indictment is one thing. That would be a very big deal, momentous instance in the United States history to have a former president indicted, but, boy, oh, boy, a conviction and upholding that conviction through appeals and all the appellate processes is a totally different story altogether.

SCIUTTO: Yes, specifically when jury trials are involved. Elie Honig, always good to have you on to break it all down.

HONIG: Thank you, both. Appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Just in to CNN, the suspect in the stabbing of the author, Salman Rushdie, has now just been indicted. Details from the courtroom are just ahead.

Plus, the White House laying out a new plan to get more people vaccinated against monkeypox. We are going to speak to a doctor who is treating monkeypox patients and has had the vaccine himself actually.

GOLODRYGA: And later, a record drought out west is leading to new water cuts. We have new data this morning on just how dire the situation is, and the drastic measures that may be coming.

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GOLODRYGA: Well, this just in to CNN. The suspect in the stabbing of Author Salman Rushdie has just been indicted. 24-year-old Hadi Matar is accused of brutally attacking Rushdie on stage before a lecture last Friday.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's just a brutal, shocking attack in public.

CNN Correspondent Brynn Gingras joins us now with details. Brynn, tell us what is in this indictment and what happens next.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Bianna. We are getting this confirmed by Matar's attorney. He says his client has been indicted. In fact, we are still efforting the paperwork that gives the details of exactly what those charges consist of. But this, of course, is very significant as this means that there is going to be no preliminary hearing in this case and it goes straight to an arraignment, which we expect to happen this afternoon.

Of course, the details of the indictment are always interesting as we learn possibly more details of what was motivation possibly behind this horrific attack last week, whether or not FBI agents or federal agents were able to seize anything from Matar's home, did he make any statements to authorities. So, it is possible he might get a little bit more detail about that once we get that court paperwork. But, again, we're still efforting that.

I will say that there was an interview by Matar's mother -- with Matar's mother by The Daily Mail over the weekend, and she kind of talked about how she was shocked about this happening and learning that her son was all a part of this, saying she did know in 2018 he did go to the Middle East for about a month long, came back, became somewhat reclusive, wouldn't talk to his family. She wondered if that had anything to do with this. So, maybe we'll learn more detail about that.

Interesting also to know, as far as Rushdie is concerned, you know what, he's doing better. He's still in critical condition, we're learning from his family, but he has been able to talk to investigators. So, we'll see if that's also part of this court paperwork, which we're waiting for. But, guys, we'll stay tuned to that arraignment that is expected to happen up there in the court in Western PA -- yes, in Chautauqua County at 1:00 this afternoon, guys.

SCIUTTO: Yes, some of the details, classic details in radicalization stories, the trip abroad, coming home, more withdrawn, et cetera. It would be interesting to see what we learn.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. The good news there, though, is Salman Rushdie does appear to be and a long, long road to recovery but he does appear to be doing better. Brynn, thank you.

Well, the White House is announcing new policies aimed at increasing the supply of monkeypox vaccines across the U.S. The CDC reports there are currently more than 13,500 cases of monkeypox in the country.

SCIUTTO: So, the new strategy, it involves providing 1.8 million additional vaccine doses, targeting release of the vaccine at events within high risk communities and making antiviral treatments more widely available.

Joining us now, Dr. Saju Matthew, he's a primary care physician and public health specialist.

[10:20:00]

Good to have you on, Doctor.

So, first, let's talk about this plan. 1.8 million new doses, is that enough? And when you look at the distribution plan, where it is targeting, does that make sense to you?

DR. SAJU MATTHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Yes, good morning, Jim and Bianna. I think that it is exciting that the CDC is really being aggressive with trying to get more vaccines. Listen, the biggest problem is getting vaccines into arms. The problem is not the number of people who are willing to get vaccinated.

A lot of my patients are so anxious. Just last week a group of five patients had to travel to Dalton, Georgia, just to get vaccinated because there are not enough vaccines. So, it is a good start by the CDC, but we're going to need a lot more vaccines, because let's remember, it is two shots given four weeks apart. So, we need quite a few vaccine doses available now.

GOLODRYGA: And, Saju, you have been forth coming in disclosing you yourself had just received the vaccine. You not only see patients, but you yourself have been vaccinated last week. Talk about that process and what you're hearing from your patients when you hear just a recent poll, for example, finding that nearly one in four women were concerned about contracting monkeypox, that's compared to just 15 percent of men? Does that correlate with what you're seeing amongst your patients too?

MATTHEW: Well, I think, really, the big drive right now, as we know, that over 95, 96 percent of patients who actually contract this virus are men having sex with men. So, what I'm seeing at work anecdotally are a lot of my gay patients that are absolutely anxious.

But I think the word is getting out there, Bianna, that you don't have to be gay, it's not what you do in the bedroom, it really is about your social network, who you hang out with, that this can be transmitted from prolonged respiratory exposure to somebody who has monkeypox and skin to skin contact.

And, yes, I was absolutely excited. I'm gay myself, I'm part of the LGBTQ community, Bianna, and it was very important for me to get vaccinate vaccinated. It wasn't easy to find a vaccine. I was lucky enough to get one. It was done the traditional way, which is basically into the fatty layer and not underneath the skin. And I'm scheduled for that second dose in four weeks, and no side effects.

GOLODRYGA: Good.

SCIUTTO: Living by example there. Let me ask you this, big picture here, right? Here you have another -- outbreak is too strong a word, but another disease spreading in the country. To that point, it requires close personal contact, therefore, it's different from COVID in terms of scale and so on and no one has died from it and there is a vaccine and it works. So, folks at home can understand just how worried to be about this, you know? Can you describe how you would describe it to patients and folks who are asking you for advice?

MATTHEW: Yes, that's a really good question, Jim. First of all, we should not be alarmed. I definitely don't want to be an alarmist. This is not like COVID-19, like you said, there have not any fatalities in the U.S. Having said that, there is a lot of community transmission and we shouldn't have the same mistake be made with COVID-19. I think we need to be aggressive in letting people know that everybody is at risk. But at the same time, we should take responsibility in the gay population, limit our partners and get vaccinated ASAP.

But, overall, the risk is low to most people. But I think it is important that we don't stigmatize this as a gay person's disease. You know what happened during the HIV epidemic, we made a lot of mistakes and we cannot make that same mistake again.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Absolutely. And let me get your response finally to the effectiveness of another strategy that the government will now be unrolling, and that's to make more vaccines available in areas where there are large LGBTQI events or where those who are most likely at risk will be together as a group. What is the effectiveness of vaccines being available in those venues and do you think that Americans and people that are going to be participating will actually take up those vaccines and get one themselves?

MATTHEW: You know, one of the biggest differences, I think, with the rollout of the monkeypox vaccine compared to COVID-19, is you're going to have a worried audience, in gay people and bisexual men, who are absolutely wanting to get vaccinated. So, I think meeting people where they are, these large LGBTQ events, is going to be key, having the vaccine available is going to be key.

And I think what is interesting, Bianna, is a lot of gay people definitely are so worried about getting this virus that they are aggressive. They're making appointments, they want to get it. In terms of the new FDA proposed route of administration, underneath the skin, just one point about that, Bianna, is as long as it is done correctly, I think that it will make more doses available. But that does involve some skill.

[10:25:00]

So, it is important that the FDA and CDC make sure that people are trained correctly at these big mass vaccination sites in order to do that in the right way.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Well, Dr. Saju Mathew, thanks so much for helping clear up a lot of big questions out there.

MATTHEW: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: It is a silent disaster having a widespread impact. I'm going to speak to the man in charge of managing the water supply in Southern Nevada amid what is a historic drought. His warning about what could happen if the west doesn't start conserving more water.

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