Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Organization CFO Pleads Guilty; Will Mar-a-Lago Affidavit Be Unsealed?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER ESCUDERO-KONTOSTATHIS, LIGHTNING STRIKE SURVIVOR: I have been reminded that they have never had a patient that has kind of survived and gone through what I have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: It's an amazing story.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you back here this time tomorrow.

Busy news day. Stay with us. Alex Marquardt picks up our coverage right now.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Alex Marquardt in Washington, D.C., in today for Ana Cabrera. Thank you so much for joining me.

Now, what led to the search? Today, a critical hearing now under way in Florida that could decide how much the public learns about the FBI's unprecedented move at former President Donald Trump's Florida home.

Several major media outlets, including CNN, are pushing to unseal the affidavit that was used to justify that search. But the Justice Department argues that releasing that key information, which include the identities of witnesses, could hurt its investigation, all of this as the former president's fight with the FBI could be on the verge of a new escalation.

CNN also learning that some Trump allies are pushing him to publicly release surveillance video of that FBI search.

I want to get straight to CNN's Jessica Schneider, who has been following today's hearing.

Jessica, the Justice Department has warned that making this affidavit public would cause significant and irreparable damage to this ongoing criminal investigation.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is high stakes for the DOJ, Alex. And his hearing has just started. We're seeing that the federal judge has just taken the bench. So what we expect in this hearing is that Justice Department prosecutors, they will be arguing forcefully to continue to keep this affidavit out of public view, keep it sealed.

Media organizations, on the other hand, including CNN, they're asking for the unsealing of this affidavit, saying that, in their filing, it's in the public interest to get more details surrounding the Mar-a- Lago search. Notably, they said, it hasn't been since the Nixon administration, that government used its power like this to get records in such a public fashion.

So the Trump team did not respond to this. They have not argued any which way. We do know, however, that Christina Bobb, a Trump team attorney, she is in the courtroom not expected to speak, but could respond to the judge if requested.

This will play out with the federal judge here peppering both sides, the media and the DOJ, with questions here. And we know quite clearly the DOJ is going to be pressing forcefully against. This DOJ has said this really could derail their investigation if this material gets out there. They said it contains information about investigative techniques, highly sensitive information about witnesses.

So, Alex, there will be a lot of forceful argument from DOJ, but also from the media side as well, since these are the two interested parties. We will see if Trump team actually speaks up here.

MARQUARDT: Yes, very interesting that they appear to be sitting this one out, for now.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

MARQUARDT: Jess, I just want to ask you quickly, DOJ has said very forcefully they do not want to unseal this affidavit, but they said that they are willing to reveal a few more details. What would those be?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, in this motion from the DOJ asking to keep the affidavit secret, they kind of threw out a little bit of a bone, if you will, saying, all right, Judge, if you need to unseal anything, there are a few things that you could unseal that wouldn't jeopardize our ongoing national security investigation.

So they listed three things that really don't have much meat to them. It would be the cover sheets associated with the search warrant application, the U.S. government's motion to seal the affidavit to keep it out of public view, as well as the court's eventual sealing order that actually did keep this affidavit under seal.

So it's really nothing substantive here. A lot of this would just be maybe procedural information if it was released, but the Justice Department, in putting this in their filing, saying, look, Judge, everything in the affidavit needs to stay secret. If you need to release anything, just release these three other sort of minor documents, if you must. MARQUARDT: All right, Jessica Schneider, we know you will be

following this hearing very carefully. Thank you so much.

Now, CNN has new reporting that former President Donald Trump is considering releasing a Mar a-Lago security camera's -- camera footage showing the FBI search and seizure from last week. The potential risks and rewards have divided Trump's inner circle, we're told, and more importantly have added alarm to the FBI, whose agents are already facing threats and intimidation from Trump supporters around the country.

I want to bring in CNN's Gabby Orr, as well as security correspondent Josh Campbell, who served, we should note, as a senior special agent with the FBI.

Thank you both for being with me today.

Gabby, I want to start with you.

Trump's youngest son -- sorry -- youngest son from his first marriage, Eric, says that his father will absolutely release the tapes -- quote -- "at the right time."

Is the decision to release those surveillance tapes, that footage as definitive as that?

GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Alex, no, it's certainly not.

[13:05:00]

And what we have learned overnight is the former president is facing pressure from allies to release those surveillance tapes. We're not even sure if former President Donald Trump has even seen the footage in full yet. It's been kept so close in his inner circle, primarily to his attorneys, that most of his aides have not seen it.

And yet they are telling him that he could benefit from releasing that CCTV surveillance footage, possibly even including clips of it in campaign ads, as one person told us.

But that has drawn mixed reactions inside the former president's circle. There are some advisers who, of course, think that this could benefit him, that giving his supporters a visual of FBI agents actually on the ground at Mar-a-Lago would further assist this narrative that he's trying to create that he is a victim of political persecution.

There are others, though, who think that this could backfire, that actually releasing that footage might not help the former president, Alex.

MARQUARDT: And, Josh, these tapes, they would show presumably FBI agents combing through the property.

The FBI has gone out of their way to say that they did this appropriately and politely. It was not a predawn search. They weren't wearing those famous FBI jackets. They weren't armed. So why would this be so concerning to the FBI if these -- this surveillance footage was released?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a normal situation, this wouldn't be an issue at all. I can tell you, having executed multiple search warrants in a former life, it's a somewhat dull and tedious process.

And so, again, in a normal world, OK, you release the video, big deal. The problem here is that there's an issue of agent safety, officer safety, if the faces of these agents are actually shown. We know that, after that Mar-a-Lago search, two of the agents who are listed in court documents that were released, they received an unprecedented number of threats, sources tell me at the FBI, the FBI having to protect its own because of this vitriol that they saw online, their personal information being blasted out.

And so that is the key point here. If the team Trump releases this video, and these agents' faces are out there, they could then be put in harm's way, Alex.

MARQUARDT: Yes.

I want to note that we're being told that this hearing is officially now under way.

But, Josh, I want to pick up on that point. We have seen or heard that the -- that FBI agents are now facing what sources are telling us are an unprecedented number of threats. We have heard the concern from the very top of the bureau, from the director, Chris Wray. As we noted at the top, you are a former special agent yourself. You spent years within the FBI.

I'm sure you have been speaking with former colleagues. How disturbing is this moment, when so many senior Republicans are saying things like defund the FBI? How disturbing is this to the rank and file?

CAMPBELL: FBI people are very disturbed.

I have been talking with a lot of former colleagues over the last week-and-a-half. And it is striking to hear the measures that are being taken to ensure their own personal safety. I mean, agents that are going to work each day, I'm told that they're carrying additional weapons, additional ammunition.

We're also told something as simple as going to lunch outside the field office now requires an added layer of situational awareness. One agent even told me that he leaves his house early every day to allow him time to actually circle the field office to scan for threats before he actually makes his way to the parking lot.

So you can imagine the psychological impact that this is having. But we know it's not just rhetoric. This is also real in a physical sense. One week ago today, there was an attack at the FBI field office in Ohio. I have been reporting on that, looking through that suspect's social media. It is a torrent of lies and election conspiracy theories.

So it shows that there are people out there who actually believe these lies that are being peddled. The question is, could those people then resort to violence? That is the big issue.

Finally, I just want to point out -- I have been saying this for years on this network -- it's important to note the FBI is not above criticism. It is an incredibly powerful institution. It can literally deny people their liberty. And so they have to be held to account.

But what we're talking about now is not accountability. We're talking about threats of violence. And for the men and women inside the FBI, it is very real at this moment. These threats continue.

MARQUARDT: Yes, that incident you were talking about was in Cincinnati. There was another less violent one in Phoenix, Arizona, when people showed up with guns at the FBI office there.

Gabby Orr, Josh Campbell, thank you so much.

CAMPBELL: Thanks.

MARQUARDT: Now, new today, Donald Trump's longtime chief financial officer has pled guilty to a 15-year tax fraud scheme. But Allen Weisselberg did strike a deal, reducing his potential sentence from 15 years in prison to just a few months in exchange for testifying in a potential October trial of the Trump Organization.

CNN's Kara Scannell is outside the courthouse.

Kara, this is someone who has been at Donald Trump side for decades. His loyalty does appear to be showing now. What are the terms of this deal that he struck?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alex, that's right, Allen Weisselberg pleading guilty today to 15 felonies all relating to him not paying income tax on a number of corporate benefits he received, including a company apartment, two luxury cars, and private school tuition for two of his grandchildren.

[13:10:10]

Now, as part of this deal, Weisselberg has agreed to cooperate in this investigation of the Trump Organization that is heading to trial. So, as part of the deal, he will pay back $2 million in taxes, fines and penalties. He will also have to testify at this trial scheduled for October.

But that trial is just about the Trump Organization as a corporation, with no other individuals' liberty at stake. Now, if Weisselberg does meet these conditions, he's agreed to serve five months in prison. And, like you said, that's way down from the 15 years he could have been facing on the high end.

The judge telling him today he -- really affirming to him he needed to meet these conditions, or else the judge would again look at the sentencing. And Weisselberg will be sentenced after his cooperation at the Trump Organization's trial.

The Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, issuing a statement today, saying: "This plea agreement directly implicates the Trump Organization in a wide range of criminal activity and requires Weisselberg to provide invaluable testimony in the upcoming trial against the corporation."

What this deal does not do, it does not require Weisselberg to cooperate in the long-running criminal investigation into the Trump Organization's finances. As you noted, this does show some of the loyalty here, and the Trump Organization itself coming out in support of Weisselberg today, calling him a fine and honorable man, saying he's harassed, prosecuted and threatened.

Now, they also affirming that they are not going to cut a deal, that they are going to trial in October -- Alex.

MARQUARDT: But, Kara, he's willing to cooperate, but not when it comes to Donald Trump the man or his family. This is about the Trump Organization.

So is it the company that is it most risk here?

SCANNELL: Yes, Alex, that's right.

So the only other person or entity charged in this indictment with Allen Weisselberg was the Trump Organization, two corporate entities of theirs. So he will be required to testify at the trial. That will be a significant aid to the government, because explaining a tax fraud case to a jury can be very complicated.

And Weisselberg will be admitting his own role in this, admitting what he had done, and explaining in simple terms how this scheme worked. That is a significant gain to the prosecution. And what's at stake for the Trump Organization, if the company were to be convicted -- of course, they have to convince a jury -- they could end up being fined what back taxes they owe, as well as penalties and interest.

But no one individual from the Trump Organization will face any individual consequences as a result of his cooperation today.

MARQUARDT: All right, a very interesting plea deal.

Kara Scannell in New York, thank you very much.

Now, much more on all of this with our legal experts, that's coming up ahead.

Plus, the punishment just got stronger for embattled Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson. He will pay even more and sit out even more games.

And who is the real queen of Christmas? Mariah Carey now facing a tough fight to trademark that title after she has been challenged by other singers.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:29]

MARQUARDT: Right now, all eyes on that Florida courthouse you see right there, where a federal judge is holding a hearing to discuss requests to unseal the Mar-a-Lago search warrant affidavit.

Now, several media outlets, including CNN, want to have it made public. But the Justice Department says that could compromise their case.

Let's discuss all this with Nick Akerman, a former Watergate prosecutor and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer. Nick, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jennifer, I want to go to you first.

How do you see this playing out? Do you think there's any chance that the judge is going to unseal this affidavit?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so, Alex. That would be highly unusual.

These affidavits stay sealed for a reason. That's to protect ongoing investigations, witnesses who've been speaking to authorities and the like. So it would be incredibly unusual for the judge to unseal it. And given the Justice Department's representations that their investigation I ongoing, and there are witnesses who need to be protected, I think the judge will refuse that request.

MARQUARDT: Nick, this is, however, an unprecedented situation. It's unique. It's involving a former U.S. president.

There have been howls really for more transparency. Do you think any of that will play into the judge's decision?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: I don't think so.

I think what's really going to play into his decision is the past conduct of the Trump people with respect to witnesses before the January 6 Committee. We know from what Liz Cheney said at the end of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony that there were people among the Trump group that were trying to basically tamper with the witnesses and influence the witnesses that were appearing before that committee.

I don't think that -- that track record is going to play heavily on this judge, knowing that people are out there looking for who these witnesses are, and who is possibly in danger of being approached if this should come out, if the affidavit is released.

So that, in itself, I think, would be a very powerful argument on behalf of the government, where they have a track record now of what the action has been towards witnesses in the January 6 Committee. So I think that the judge is going to be well advised to keep it right where it is and to let the Trump people keep guessing who amongst them are the snitches.

[13:20:00]

MARQUARDT: Yes, the judge -- or the DOJ, rather, has argued that revealing this would lay out their road map that gets to their probable cause argument for why this search took place at Mar-a-Lago.

And, Jennifer, they argued earlier this week that releasing this affidavit could chill future cooperation by witnesses, as you just mentioned. What impact do you think it would have on people who might otherwise or who are otherwise speaking with the government?

RODGERS: Well, listen, no one wants to be the subject of threats. No one wants to be the subject of intimidation.

So I think people would stop talking to authorities if they knew that their names would be released publicly. I mean, we just had a situation, not only what Nick was talking about with the January 6 witnesses, but where the documents that the Justice Department asked to be released redacted the names of FBI agents involved in the search, and Trump himself released his version of those documents with unredacted names.

And those agents immediately faced threats to their lives. So witnesses, no one wants to be under that kind of microscope and facing those kinds of threats. So, sure, people would think twice about talking to authorities if they knew that their names would be publicly available for all of these Trump supporters who think that making violent threats against people is OK.

MARQUARDT: Nick, what do you make of the fact that the Trump team hasn't said one way or the other whether they want this affidavit unsealed? They're there today, but they are there as spectators.

AKERMAN: Well, probably whatever they say, isn't really going to make a big difference.

I mean, they're the ones that would actually misuse all of the information that's in that affidavit. So they're probably best just sitting there saying nothing and let the news organizations make the argument that there's a public interest here.

I mean, that is the strongest argument that's there. This is the first time a president has ever been the subject of a search warrant. I don't think it's going to win. I don't think the judge is going to buy it. But he certainly wouldn't buy the Trump Organization trying to get that kind of information, when there is this background of witness tampering, and also trying to protect the integrity of an investigation with respect to who they are looking at, what evidence they have.

They just don't want evidence destroyed. They don't want people tampered with. So they're probably playing the smart move. That is, the strongest argument here comes from the media, but I don't think that's going to win the day.

MARQUARDT: Only the government in this case has the affidavit. The Trump team doesn't have it.

But one thing that the Trump team does have still in their possession is surveillance video, security footage of the search at Mar-a-Lago. We understand from sources speaking to my colleagues that there is some discussion, debate among the Trump inner circle about whether that should be released. There are both pros and cons.

Jennifer, what do you think the ramifications would be if the Trump side put that video out?

RODGERS: Well, I think, again, we would see threats to the FBI agents whose faces could be seen, and so they could be identified.

I mean, normally, it's OK for people to record interactions with the police. That's how, frankly, we have -- like, for example, in the Derek Chauvin case, with the murder of George Floyd, you saw bystander videos play a really important role, even if the police don't want those things taken.

So it's not that there is video or in theory that it be released. But, here, where there's such a violent atmosphere and threats already out there -- I mean, the FBI agents whose names are on the affidavit paperwork that was released have already faced threat. So, when that's the issue here, that's a very strong argument, I think, for either not releasing the tape or for obscuring the faces of FBI agents involved, so that they not be identified.

MARQUARDT: And no one's saying that they would put out the full tapes in their raw form. But if they were to, the public would then see that more than 20 boxes of classified documents were being carried out. And, of course, that might not be a good look for the former president.

Nick, before we go, I want to ask you about the former president's CFO of the Trump Organization, Allen Weisselberg. Just hours ago, he pled guilty to criminal charges tied to a 15-year fraud scheme. He is now expected to testify, not against anybody in the Trump family, but against the Trump Organization, in an upcoming trial.

So explain to us how the CFO of the Trump Organization could testify against the company, but not implicate anyone who has run the company in the past few years.

AKERMAN: Well, I think the way he does it is simply to admit everything that the indictment says he did, because the company is basically liable based on his actions.

To me, the big question here is, why did they enter into this deal, give him basically three months in prison, which is a cakewalk, rather than really press hard, try and get him convicted, get him a 10-year sentence, and really force him to testify against Donald Trump? [13:25:12]

I mean, it's not like this case isn't overwhelming. They have got a second set of books, and they have got all kinds of documents with Weisselberg's handwriting on it. So, to me, that's the big question.

Or did possibly Weisselberg provide other information to the DA about Trump and direct them to other evidence that may lead to an indictment? We don't know the answers to those questions. But the fact that he got such a sweet deal raises a lot of questions.

MARQUARDT: Yes, it certainly does, just a few months in prison, instead of the up to 15 years that he could have faced. So, hopefully, we will get some answers to those questions very soon.

Nick Akerman, Jennifer Rodgers, thank you both for your time and your expertise today.

Now, the White House is ramping up its response to the monkeypox outbreak. More on those plans to meet growing demand for a vaccine.

Plus, a bigger suspension and a bigger fine. Details on the new punishment for Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson.

Stay with us. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)