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Daughter Of Putin Ally Killed In Car Bombing Near Moscow; At Least 30 Dead After Terrorists Attack Upscale Hotel In Somalia; State Of Economy Under The Biden Administration; No Regrets For Liz Cheney After Primary Loss; Actor Gary Busey Faces Sex Offense Charges At Monster Mania Convention; Trump Supporters Escalate Violent Rhetoric After FBI Search; Devastating Drought In Africa Pushing 22 Million People Into Starvation. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 21, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:24]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The daughter of an influential Putin ally killed by a car bomb on the outskirts of Moscow.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was a major explosion while she was driving on that highway. The car went up in flames and she was dead on the spot. The big question is, was she the actual target?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We would also like to see what documents were marked top-secret-SCI were in the president's possession at Mar-a- Lago. This is very serious business.

REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): Do any of us really believe that Donald Trump is like reading his nuclear secrets on his bed side at night?

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): No regrets. I feel sad about where my party is. I feel sad about the way that too many of my colleagues have responded to what I think is a great moral test and challenge of our time.

MATTINGLY: Some 160 people safely evacuated from a New Mexico national park after being trapped by flash floods.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The roads that are washed out and we can't pass through. They don't even know about food and water for us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's still raining. It's not letting go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington. Pamela Brown has the night off. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Investigators in Russia say the car bomb that killed the daughter of a key Putin ally was preplanned. A murder investigation is now under way after Darya Dugina died in last night's attack on the outskirts of Moscow. Her father is an influential Russian ultra nationalist. He's also considered an architect of the Ukraine invasion and often described as Putin's brain.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more.

PLEITGEN: Hi, Phil. Well, there's very little in the way of information coming out from that investigative committee as to where exactly things stand with that investigation. However, one of the things that we have heard is that the explosive yield they believe of that bomb was the equivalent of about 400 grams of TNT. They also say that they found parts of what they think might have been that explosive device and have sent those in for forensic investigation.

But of course a lot is still very much unclear, like, for instance, who might be behind all of this. Here's what we're learning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): A car engulfed in a massive fire ball on a highway outside Moscow. Police say the vehicle exploded and then crashed. The driver dead on the scene. That driver was Darya Dugina, a well-known commentator and supporter of Russia's invasion of Ukraine who was sanctioned by the United States and by the U.K. She was also the daughter of prominent right-wing idealogue Alexander Dugin who promotes Russian expansionism.

According to Russian state media an explosive device detonated Saturday night setting the vehicle on fire. Russia has opened a criminal investigation and the investigative committee says they believe Dugina was murdered. Taking into account the data already obtained, the investigation believes that the crime was preplanned and of an ordered nature, a statement said.

While forensic work continued the Foreign Ministry implied that Ukraine may be behind the attack. "If the Ukrainian trace is confirmed," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova wrote on Telegram, "then we should talk about the policy of state terrorism implemented by the Kyiv regime." The Ukrainians deny any involvement.

MYKHAILO PODOLIAK, ADVISER TO THE HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I emphasize that Ukraine definitely has nothing to do with this because we are not a criminal state, which the Russian federation is and even more so we are not a terrorist state.

PLEITGEN: But some in Russia believe Darya Dugina wasn't the actual target of the explosion but rather her father. Alexander Dugin also sanctioned by the U.S. remains highly influential in Russia as he calls for the annexation of large parts of Ukraine. An ultraconservative philosopher and TV personality with roots in the Orthodox church he's a champion of Russian expansionism. Some claiming he may have influenced Vladimir Putin's decision to further invade Ukraine.

In 2014 Dugin said Russia must, quote, "kill, kill, and kill" the people running Ukraine and that there should be no more discussion.

Darya Dugina was 29 years old when she was killed. Russian investigators say they are frantically working to find those responsible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: So as you can see there, Phil, the investigation is still very much in its early stages and as of right now we have not yet heard from Vladimir Putin on this topic at all.

[18:05:09]

However, when you look at for instance the upper echelons of Russian politics and especially Kremlin controlled media you do hear a lot of anger there. And of course this has had a chilling effect as well -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Fred Pleitgen, on a fast-moving, very fluid story in Russia.

In the meantime, emergency crews are searching through the rubble of a hotel where at least 30 people were killed by gunfire in Somalia. The battle there raged for more than 30 hours between Somali security forces and members of the al Qaeda linked terror group Al Shabaab.

CNN's Larry Madowo is covering the story for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It lasted more than 30 hours. An attack by Al Shabaab that's been described as one of the longest hotel sieges with the al Qaeda linked terror group in Somalia in over a decade. And there are signs all around the Hayat Hotel in Mogadishu of just how intense and prolonged the battle was.

Police say it began on Friday night when militants blasted their way into the building, shooting civilians as they tried to escape. Witnesses say the attackers barricaded themselves inside and blew up the stairs in order to trap some people on upper floors. Hour by hour, fierce gun battles erupted between the insurgents and elite armed forces who eventually regained control of the hotel.

Authorities say more than 100 people were rescued but one Somali police commander says it was hard fighting. He says, it's shocking that innocent people lost their lives here, and adds security forces were engaged in rescuing people one by one and then groups.

Police say the hotel is badly damaged and they are sweeping the debris for explosives that were left around the hotel. And they say they are still counting the dead as some relatives may have buried their loved ones instead of taking them to hospitals.

But the attack in the heart of the country's capital just months after Somalia's new president was elected shows just how dangerous Al Shabaab is and how difficult it will be to defeat them as the Somali government has promised to do.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: In the last few weeks the Biden administration has pulled off some remarkable, legislative achievements from climate change to gun legislation to a major expansion of veterans benefits. It's put the president on a much needed winning streak. And while inflation is still high, gas prices dipped to a national average of $3.90 today. That's 50 cents less than just one month ago citing consistently from their peak of more than $5 in July. Jobless claims also fell slightly this week and appear to have settled around the 250,000 mark.

What does this all mean for the Biden administration? Well, want to bring in somebody who hopefully can give some answers. I want to bring in economic adviser Jared Bernstein.

Jared, thanks for coming in. Good to see you in studio.

JARED BERNSTEIN, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Great to be here in studio with you.

MATTINGLY: Not on the North Lawn or via Zoom from your office. I want to start with kind of what's transpired over the course of the last three, four weeks. What a month it has been for the administration because if you track back, you know, you had, I take it six weeks ago, long time ago.

BERNSTEIN: OK.

MATTINGLY: Fears of recession.

BERNSTEIN: Two years in White House time feels like.

MATTINGLY: Exactly. Maybe longer than that. Fears of recession, inflation, obviously the Fed was moving very aggressively, kind of a dour state of things. Strong July jobs report. Tumbling gas prices. The big legislative wins. Inflation staying flat month to month in the latest CPI report. There seems to be some hope for the U.S. economy. A lot of what you were saying would potentially happen seems to be happening.

But there is an NBC poll out today. I'll pull it up right now related to recession. There seems to be a disconnect still between what's happening on the ground and what you guys are talking about, and where the American people are. And I guess what I want to know is, why do you think the disconnect exists and, two, is it concerning because this isn't just a political issue? From an economic perspective perceptions are important when it comes to how Americans operate.

BERNSTEIN: Sure. I think probably a good place to start, Phil, is that our marching orders from the president are to keep our head down and continue on working to implement and execute the agenda that President Biden has laid out. Now, look. At the top of that agenda is attacking what he has called the number one economic priority which is of course elevated inflation.

Now as you mentioned, inflation was flat in July. And that was very welcome for the month but it is still quite elevated year over year. And I think that's one of the reasons you're getting that poll result. Now the reason we got that downward trend in the rate of inflation for July was of course gas prices and this was one of the most prominent prices in our economy, down as you mentioned over a dollar since its peak.

[18:10:05]

Very important to recognize that the president's fingerprints are among the many on that trend so it is a global price. There's a lot that goes into it. But by releasing 180 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Reserves, President Biden played a role in setting that trend off. So I think one of the things that we continuously need to do whether it's the Inflation Reduction Act, whether it's our work in the ports, whether it's the strongest labor market in generation, is to make sure that the American people know just how hard we're working for them to achieve the kind of results that we have begun to see. Begun, you know, a little bit of crack of light there. No victory laps. Begun to see in the last week or so.

MATTINGLY: So when it comes to inflation obviously continually shows up as a huge issue for Americans in the polling right now. You noted it's still quite elevated at this point in time. Gas prices driving a lot of what we saw in July. The president had played a role but he is not the single arbiter of what gas prices do or how they move back and forth.

Is there concern right now that if China starts to come back out of the COVID lockdowns, its economy starts to move in a better direction than it has been, that some of what we saw inflation wise in July from a positive sense could turn back negative very quickly?

BERNSTEIN: Yes. So you asked if I'm concerned. I'm basically paid to be concerned about everything that could go south and so, you know, I sleep like a baby. I wake up crying every two hours. This trend in the gas prices, it's about 66 days old I believe. That's got some momentum. So, as far as we can see out, which isn't very far, a week or two, you know, we expect to see continuing trend downward.

But you mentioned China. China is obviously a very important player. Every time demand wiggles or waggles in China you see it in the oil price. We're also in a hurricane season. So we have to be mindful that there could be disruptions to this very favorable trend. And that's why our work, and I think the Inflation Reduction Act, comes in here, which was, you know, very much a legislative rabbit pulled out of a hat by congressional Democrats and the president, is so important here.

Because we're talking about lastingly reducing prices that family budgets face in the area of health care, in the area of health care premium coverage, in the area of clean energy. And doing so in a way that helps in the near term but also over the longer term. So lasting relief. I think that's also core to our anti-inflation mission. MATTINGLY: Can I ask you kind of broader, from a macro perspective? I

know you're digging through every piece of data that comes out on a daily basis, entire CEA is where you call home currently. You know, we saw the 30-year fixed mortgage rate slipped this week. The housing market had been red hot for a long period of time. What does that tell you right now based on what the Fed has been doing?

BERNSTEIN: Well, let me say something that you probably won't hear White House economists say all that often which is that the housing market is cooling and it needed to cool. This was a market where our goals of affordable and accessible housing were very much in contrast to trends that prevailed not just when we got here but, really, for 10 years. Hence, when the supply of housing was just really inadequate especially for middle and lower income folks.

And so in the Biden-Harris administration we recognize that our racial equity agenda is intimately tied to more affordable housing in the long run. And we have a set of policies and plans to get us there. In the near term when the Fed is in a rate hiking cycle like they're in right now, you're always going to see housing react first. And the cooling of that market that we're seeing on the back of these rising mortgage rates is actually something that is important for the overall economy right now.

MATTINGLY: You didn't say steady and stable. I thought that steady and stable was the message I expected to get that response.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look. I mean, steady and stable when it comes to GDP growth, but, you know, that housing market needed to cool. The Federal Reserve was well aware of that. And they did so. But again, that's a very near term cyclical thing. The structural problem, the long term supply deficit of moderate and low income housing, that is very high on our agenda and critical to realizing our equity goals.

MATTINGLY: Another issue that's high on your agenda but is also a near term issue is student loans. Obviously there has been a freeze on federal student loan payments since the pandemic. The president has extended the freeze several times. There is a deadline coming up on that freeze. I feel like there's been several weeks over the course of the last three months where we thought something was coming in terms of a decision of what's going to happen with that.

What's going to happen with that?

BERNSTEIN: Well, let me first tell you that I'm not going to make any news tonight.

MATTINGLY: Really? This is a great opportunity. We're on set.

BERNSTEIN: The reason I get to come here on set is because I don't get ahead of the president. And we will leave that announcement to President Biden when he sees fit to make it.

MATTINGLY: One thing, and everybody is watching that very closely. We're getting very close to that deadline. You know, I want to bring up, I want you to listen to what Republican Congressman Andy Barr said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): There is a reason why the American people are angry and anxious and that's because they are worse off under the policies of congressional Democrats and Joe Biden.

[18:15:07]

Yes, they are concerned about our country and the future of our country because we're in a recession because we've had two consecutive quarters of negative, economic growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Look, to be blunt, I don't really want to get into a semantic debate about --

BERNSTEIN: Sure.

MATTINGLY: -- NBER and recession and all that type of stuff, but what is your response to that? Because that is what you hear a lot of Republicans talking about on the campaign trail. And while things have been very good for the White House over the course of the last several weeks there are still headwinds facing you guys heading into a midterm election.

BERNSTEIN: No question. But there are also tail winds, and comments like the ones you just heard very much leave the tail winds aside. Now, look, I want to be clear that we've been very forthright even in our conversation about talking about head winds and inflation but let's not forget that we are looking at an unemployment rate that is 3.5 percent. That's tied for a 53-year low.

We just learned I believe on Friday that 22 states have an unemployment rate below 3 percent. That is a record and I'm not going to get into the technical definition of a recession. I will tell you that as a student of that technical definition those kinds of numbers are completely inconsistent with this being a recession in the here and now. So on a factual basis what you just heard was wrong.

Now, what is also true is that everybody's crystal ball is pretty cracked right now. And it's awfully hard to look out weeks, months, and quarters. But I can tell you from where we sit right now whether you're looking at the main factors that the group who actually calls the recession looks at, whether it's the retail sales number we just got, whether it's the jobs numbers we were just talking about, industrial production, personal consumer expenditures, those key economic variables are not in a recessionary territory at all.

But that doesn't mean we can sit on our hands and just be relaxed and forget. We have to continue to push to make sure. This gets away from that whole definitional thing. How are households doing? How is the middle class doing? How are low income households?

MATTINGLY: Can I ask you real quick, and real quick? BERNSTEIN: Sure.

MATTINGLY: Because we're already over time, but, you know, one thing we've talked a lot about this, but you guys are keeping an eye constantly on foreclosures, on bankruptcies.

BERNSTEIN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: On delinquencies which has given you guys some proof that the lack of scarring in the wake of the economic crisis is so much different than '08-'09. However, we're seeing credit card balances start to shoot up over the course of the last couple of months. Are you seeing any signs right now that it's potentially problematic and that inflation is really starting to eat away --

BERNSTEIN: So I'm glad that you raised the last period where we were coming out of a downturn which was of course the great recession at the heels of the housing bubble imploding back then. At that time, both business and household balance sheets were an absolute wreck. And so that kind of credit area that you're talking about was really damaged. There was no buffer there.

I just looked at these numbers today. I don't know what you do on a Sunday but this is what I was doing. That the historical average of debt servicing meaning how much households have to pay to service their debt bill is 11 percent of their income. 11 percent of income is the historical average. Right now it's 9.5 percent well below that average. And that has to do with household balance sheets in pretty good shape and the very strong job market that we're are talking about.

It's giving families a real buffer that makes this period much different than the one we were talking about after the great housing financial crisis.

MATTINGLY: Yes. No question about it. Inflation is real. Spending is real. It is a difficult economy to track. I appreciate you coming in and --

BERNSTEIN: A lot of moving parts.

MATTINGLY: A lot of moving parts. No question about it.

Jared Bernstein, appreciate it, my friend. Thank you very much.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right, and coming up no regrets. Liz Cheney in a candid interview after the bruising loss in Wyoming. Former Republican Congressman Will Hurd is here to discuss.

Also ahead new reporting from our Sam Kiley on the 22 million people in Africa facing famine because of drought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:22:59]

MATTINGLY: Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney just days removed from a crushing defeat in a re-election bid says she has no regrets. Cheney became a top target of former President Trump and his supporters after voting for his impeachment and for serving as the vice chair of the January 6th Committee. Cheney says her greater concern is the direction of the Republican Party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: No regrets. You know, I feel sad about where my party is. I feel sad about the way that too many of my colleagues have responded to what I think is a great moral test and challenge of our time, a great moment to determine whether or not people are going to stand up on behalf of the democracy and on behalf of our republic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining me now former Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas.

Congressman, thanks so much for your time. I kind of want to start there. You've made the point in several interviews since you left Capitol Hill that Trump supporters, the Trump support is fading somewhat in the party. They don't represent the super majority of the Republican Party. I look around what happened in primaries over the course of the last several months including Liz Cheney's where she for lack of a better term got smoked by Harriet Hageman.

Are you concerned about the direction of the party especially given the work that you're engaged in right now?

WILL HURD (R), FORMER TEXAS CONGRESSMAN: I've always been concerned with the direction of the party. And there are examples of ideals winning out in some races and there are examples of personalities winning out. I think right now at the core of the fight in the Republican Party is between ideals and personalities. I think when we talk about a competition of ideas we win. When we talk about a competition of personalities, that makes it difficult for conservativism to last beyond one election cycle.

Liz Cheney is my friend. Liz Cheney is a great American. She is going to go down in history as doing the right thing. I think her race is more of a reflection of Wyoming than is a reflection of the rest of the country.

[18:25:05]

MATTINGLY: You know, and you were known as one of -- I mean, you called yourself an idealist, you were known as an ideas guy on Capitol Hill when you were a member of Congress, when I covered you as a member of Congress. Who are the people with the ideas? Personalities seem to drive everything right now in the party particularly in the primary cycle.

HURD: Look, I agree with you. And here is part of the problem with the primary cycle. Not enough people vote in primaries. In the last election, 2020 election, in the presidential election 67 percent of eligible voters voted. But in the primary only 24 percent. When everything is done in this election cycle I'm sure those numbers are going to be pretty much the same. And people are talking to a very narrow group of voters.

And there's other voters that aren't being talked to or don't like what is happening. When you look at 80 percent of the country thinks the country is on the wrong track and that number has been growing. It started growing under the previous administration. It's been growing under this administration. The public is saying we need something different. And I do believe that when you put forward great ideas, when I look in my party, I look to someone like a Mike McCall, who is the chairman or going to be the chairman of Foreign Affairs committee, talking about what America's role in the rest of the world should be.

When I look at people like Brian Fitzpatrick and Mike Gallagher that are talking about how do we ensure that we're doing things that strengthen our national security, these are some of the folks that are putting forward some ideas. And guess what? When we take back the House in 2022 and the economy gets worse, the public is going to be looking for Republicans to have ideas on what we should be doing to deal with a recession and worsening inflation.

And so this is, for me, I want to make sure that we see conservativism grow for multiple election cycles and then we also got to get beyond debates like the 2020 election. That has already been litigated. Joe Biden won. Donald Trump lost. It was pretty clear. We need to be talking about how do we deal and operate in a dangerous world where you have Iran close to having a nuclear weapon. You see terrorist organizations.

There was a bombing in Africa recently that killed a number of folks. These problems are still existing. And if we want to make sure that this century stays an American century it's going to be about us putting forward good ideas.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's always been kind of your position on things. It was on Capitol Hill. But you mentioned, you know, you have the election, many of the people who won primaries were running explicitly on a rigged election. It's just a fluid time, an unsettling time to some degree. However, you've always been a very consistent voice.

Will Hurd, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming in.

HURD: Always a pleasure.

MATTINGLY: All right. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Actor Gary Busey faces sex charges after appearing at a Monster Mania convention. What we're learning about the legal trouble he's in now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:35]

MATTINGLY: We're now learning more about the circumstances that led to criminal charges being filed against actor Gary Busey. The 78-year-old is accused of sex offenses for his alleged behavior at a Monster Mania Convention in New Jersey earlier this month.

Jean Casarez joins me now. And Jean, what more do we know?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning that charges apparently were filed on Friday. Gary Busey has not been processed yet according to the Cherry Hill Police Department. It seems to be they're in the investigation phase. I do want to say that we are reaching out to the representatives of Gary Busey. They are not responding back to us.

But it was a week ago today and the Cherry Hill Police Department talk about this Monster Mania Convention that was being held in New Jersey. It's an annual event. Gary Busey was one of the celebrities that was there. And they say to us that they received a call to come to the Doubletree Hotel there in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, because of the report of a sex attack. And so they went there.

This last week apparently they were investigating. Charges came on Friday. Here we want to look at those charges. Remember, these are charges from the police department, not the district attorney's office at this point. Two counts of criminal sexual contact fourth degree. One count of criminal attempt. Criminal sexual contact fourth degree. One count of harassment, disorderly persons offense.

Now, they are not telling us exactly what the alleged conduct was that caused these charges, probable cause, right, that these crimes had been committed. But we do have something from the attorney that's representing the Monster Mania Convention. And they say that they are assisting authorities with an investigation that's happening right now. They say, quote, "Immediately upon receiving a complaint from the attendee, the celebrity guest was removed from the convention and instructed not to return."

Now, once again we contacted the Camden County Prosecutor's Office, the district attorney's office. They referred us back to the police department. They say there is a complaint. It has not been sent at all. But Gary Busey is being charged with these level F felonies. And according to New Jersey law that I'm reading the presumption is there is no incarceration. It is something that is a probationary offense -- Phil.

[18:35:01]

MATTINGLY: Still a lot of unanswered questions. But great breakdown as always. Jean, thanks so much.

Now Republicans pride themselves on unyielding support for law enforcement but some have been quick to attack the FBI after the Mar- a-Lago search. I'll talk to a man who served in three Republican administrations about how we got here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN HYDE (R), FLORIDA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: When they turned up at Mar-a-Lago and raided the home of President Trump, that was an assault on every one of the 75 million people that voted for Donald Trump. It was an assault on democracy. These people will stop at nothing. I wish they'd turn up at my home because they'd gone home in a body bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was Martin Hyde, a House GOP candidate from Florida. And while the campaign ad you saw was especially jaw-dropping and unsettling, Hyde isn't the only Republican to attack the FBI since the Mar-a-Lago search.

[18:40:02]

And it's not just the bureau that's under siege. Judges, police, other government officials and facilities have also faced an uptick in threats according to a joint intelligence bulletin that went out last week. My next guest warns that if the trend continues, quote, "it will not end well."

Peter Wehner served in three Republican administrations prior to President Trump. He is now a contributing writer at "The Atlantic" and senior fellow at Trinity Forum.

And Peter, thanks so much for joining me. You write in "The Atlantic" in your latest piece, quote, "In the same world of partisan Republican reaction to the FBI search of Trump's home would be something like we don't believe Trump did anything wrong. We're skeptical about the Department of Justice's actions but we'll wait to see the evidence before we make any sweeping claims or definitive judgments."

The reaction online in right-wing media even among some lawmakers has been far from what you describe. It's been unhinged, it's been ominous, is what you write. We all remember not that long ago when Republicans tended to be very supportive of the FBI. Unyielding in its support of law enforcement. Now you've got actual members of Congress, lawmakers saying things like it is a Marxist dictatorship calling FBI agents wolves. How did we get here?

PETER WEHNER, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: It's a long story and it's a dark story. The short version is I think that the Republican Party has become a party of malicious and malignant figures. There is a lot of resentment and grievances that have stirred up over the years. You have the right-wing media that has played a role in this. You have figures like Newt Gingrich come on the scene particularly in the '90s and to use a sort of playbook of children of light versus children of darkness, war language, and so forth.

So a lot of this is stirred. You know, there is a history on both parties but on the right of dark fringes. What's different I think now is that you have political leaders particularly presidents who kept those forces on the fringes. Now it's been main streamed and amplified by Donald Trump and, unfortunately, now it goes beyond Donald Trump. So in that sense the Republican Party is in a cult of personality that pathologist have spread and you're seeing it up and down the ticket and across the spectrum in terms of this kind of really, really dangerous and ominous rhetoric.

MATTINGLY: At the end of your article you write, quote, "This can't end well." One of the interesting elements of kind of this moment in time is you see a lot of these threats. You see the online discourse and the rhetoric. To some degree you're almost numb to it, right? It's been going on for several years now. I think the individual who tried to storm an FBI facility in Cincinnati has changed that a little bit. I think froze a lot of people.

What's your biggest concern as we see this rhetoric it seems like continue to escalate right now?

WEHNER: Widespread political violence. We already had political violence and that was on January 6th. So this is basically reaching for that playbook one more time. But it could be more widespread than this. Precisely because the radicalization of the Republican Party, which is not a conservative party anymore, it's a radical party, it's a deeply populist party. It's almost like a European far-right party.

But they've all bought into this and this is amplifying and it's amplifying on social media. But, you know, this stuff has hung around the dark fringes of the Webs for a long time. Again, the difference here is the main streaming of it. Not just of columnists and talk radio personalities but also political leaders. So political violence is my most -- is my deepest immediate concern. I would say beyond that, the effort to annihilate truth by these forces and factors in American life on a more fundamental level is something that really worries me.

Because if you lose truth and the basis of truth in a self-governing republic then it falls apart and there is no basis for persuasion, for debate, for argument. Then it's the will to power and when a country is being governed by an attitude of the will to power, a lot of really, really bad things happen.

MATTINGLY: One of the things I want to ask you about that was kind of along those lines, it was an eyebrow raising data point this morning. There was a new poll that finds that democracy has actually replaced cost of living as the top issue on voters' minds from that NBC News poll this morning. There's been a lot of discussion particularly in the Democratic Party how much do you make this an issue in a campaign where it didn't seem to resonate polling wise.

Presumably part of that number is Republicans who believe Democrats are stealing elections, though, as well. Do you think this idea on both sides democracy is constantly on the brink of collapse is actually helping to fuel some of the extreme rhetoric?

WEHNER: Sure, sure. You know, I would say that going back to your original question, what led to this moment for the Republican Party, I would say that this existential fear, the sense that sort of the Flight 93 moment as it's been called has fueled a lot of this.

[18:45:02] If you believe your country is, you know, two minutes to midnight on the edge of the cliff and so forth, then you will use means that normally you wouldn't endorse to fight for the country or fight for your cause. That kind of mindset is there.

I would say that in a -- I guess it's an ironic twist of things, the very fact that the GOP has imbibed this philosophy, made it a part of who they are, has in fact now turned into a real grave threat to the republic unlike anything we've seen in our lifetime and very rare moments in American history because what you have now is basically an entire political party committed to undoing an election and getting in the way of the peaceful transfer of power.

You have a man in Donald Trump who is I think by any reasonable standards a sociopath. That is a tragedy on an individual level. But when he takes that sociopathy and it spreads and spreads and spreads, and is embraced by others, not necessarily the sociopathy, per se, but the means, the mechanism that they use, then you are in a really, really dangerous moment.

And this is, I understand why the threat to democracy is near or at the top among voters. Again, we know what happened with January 6th. And the more we learn about what happened leading up to January 6th, and in the aftermath of it, we were lucky. We dodged a bullet. And it's good to be able to do that. But you can't depend on that. That's not a good pattern to get into. And the reality is that the Republican Party seems committed to doing this again and again. And it just has to be stopped for the sake of the country and for the sake of what's good and right.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's unsettling to say the least. On a large sphere of issues.

Peter Wehner, as always, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

WEHNER: Thanks so much for having me.

MATTINGLY: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. They're living through one of the worst droughts in decades. 22 million people in the Horn of Africa are struggling to find food. We'll show you, coming up.

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[18:51:45]

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DAVID BEASLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: So what you are seeing is Somalia, Ethiopia and Northern Kenya is just tragic. I saw dead animals, children dying before my very own eyes. They need help and they need it now.

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MATTINGLY: That was the head of the World Food Program on CNN today with a very dire warning. A disaster looms in the Horn of Africa. More than 20 million people across Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia, are facing extreme hunger amid one of the region's worst droughts in decades.

CNN's Sam Kiley reports on the impact of this crisis on the most vulnerable.

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SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not a coffin he is being measured for. This is an urgent effort to keep him from the grave. His arms so thin for his age and height, he's categorized as severely, acutely malnourished.

Arbolo need urgent help. He's about 2 and he can't walk. He's one of six million kids across the Horn of Africa the U.N. says are on the brink of starvation. There's food for her youngest. But nothing for Akuagok's other children. Except for a little wheat ground into a handful of flour. She says her husband died last year. She has not livestock. She survives by selling charcoal where she can. But food prices have tripled this year.

The evidence that humanity's ancestors lived here one and a half million years ago has been found in places like this. Now water the very source of life is being measured out in coffee cups. And 11.6 million people across northeastern Africa are short of water in the worst drought for 40 years.

Here in Ileret, Northern Kenya local officials say that at least 85 percent of animals once owned by Nomadic people are dead. And the U.N. says 1.5 million head of livestock perished in Kenya. Now the price of staple food like maize flour have more than doubled in many parts of Kenya since the disruption of global food supplies by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. In short, Europe's war may soon start killing people in Africa.

(On-camera): This community is marginal, it's living on the brink, on the very brink of survival, but so are millions of people right across the region. And critical to their long-term survival is the stability of Kenya, a country that is facing drought. It is facing massive increases in the price of fuel and food. Instability here causes chaos across the whole Horn of Africa.

(Voice-over): The increased banditry across the vast Marsabit County has led to dozens of murders and thousands of livestock lost in raids, and has now been met with military operations and a dawn to dusk curfew. Around 200 machine guns and other weapons were captured in one recent police operation here along with hundreds of rounds of ammunition.

Roadblocks screen travelers in daylights. Nomads are moving south in search of grazing into major towns like Isiolo. And they've invaded wildlife sanctuaries like Buffalo Springs, competing with protected and often endangered animals for food and water.

[18:55:07] The results can be fatal. Two men were recently killed by a female elephant near here. But it's violence between humans that's putting the most traditionally stable country in the Horn of Africa at risk.

FRANK POPE, CEO, SAVE THE ELEPHANTS: Any time you get people that are hungry without other options you've got a security situation. And Northern Kenya is -- you know, we're bordered by South Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia. All of which have had or are still in the grip of conflict that spews small arms into this ecosystem so you've got a lot of weapons up here and increasing hunger. So yes, I'd say that's a security concern.

KILEY: That concern will endure as long as this landscape continues to dry out and war in Europe chokes food supplies to Africa's most needy.

Sam Kiley, CNN, in Ileret, Northern Kenya.

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MATTINGLY: An incredibly important story. Thanks to Sam Kiley for that.

Tonight on CNN Hawaii's a paradise but for whom? W. Kamau Bell goes beyond those crowded beaches in Hawaii to explore the tensions between visitors and locals. An all-new episode of "UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA" with W. Kamau Bell airs at 10:00 p.m. here on CNN.

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