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Ukraine Denies Involvement in Car Bombing in Russia; Dangerous Flash Flooding; Violent Police Arrest Stirs Outrage. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 22, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Alisyn is on assignment today.

We're starting in the Southern U.S., where nearly 15 million people -- we're talking Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas -- they're living under a massive storm system. Torrential rains created flash floods in Dallas. Look at this. The water is moving so quickly here. Cars are being submerged. This is on the interstate, happened overnight.

People had to kick their way out of the vehicles. They had to break the windows and then just swim there to safety in the dark. You can also see here police, first responders helping them get to higher ground. Dallas Fire-Rescue has responded to more than 180 water- related emergencies.

Consider this. An entire summer's worth of rain fell on Dallas in just hours, as much as 10 inches since Sunday. One driver said her car got stuck in just minutes. And then the threat was not just on the roads. A woman woke up to knee-deep water flooding her apartment. She just moved in, a lot of her stuff ruined.

CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera joins me now from Dallas.

Ed, what are you seeing?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, as you have laid out there, it's been a brutal morning overnight here. This is a neighborhood in southeast Dallas County.

This has been some of the hardest hit areas, where, in some places, I have seen local weather reports say some people have received about 10 inches of rain in less than -- in less than 24 hours. That is the kind of rainfall that you would see over the course of an entire summer.

Look at the floodwaters here in this particular neighborhood. There's a small creek that runs several hundred yards behind these homes over here. All of the water coming out of there, rushing out of there. And this is an area where you have seen roadways that have been clogged by water turning into fast-moving streams and rivers, creating headaches and dangerous situations. We have seen emergency crews having to carry out water rescues. There

have been more than 100 different kinds of water incidents that emergency crews have had to deal with throughout the course of the day, Victor.

And, in fact, what emergency teams are saying now is, if you do not have to be on the roadways, they're asking people to stay out. But there is a sliver of good news here. In the last hour or so that we have been kind of in this general area, the water -- and since the rain has started to slow down a little bit, we're not seeing the torrential downpour that we had seen for hours and hours and hours.

Now that it's kind of starting to -- more of a low light drizzle, it feels like the water here is starting to recede. In fact, in the last 30 minutes or so, I feel like it's come down several inches, which is great news for these families, because that means they can begin the cleanup process.

It's hard to say just exactly how much water some of these homes have taken on, but it's been an unbelievable night of rainfall and torrential downpours for hours and hours here, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, some good news for that neighborhood.

Ed Lavandera for us in Dallas.

Let's see if that family behind you is prepared now to start cleaning up.

Let's go to meteorologist Tom Sater, who's with us.

Tom, has Dallas seen the worst of it and who's under it next?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I think so, Victor.

We're -- I will show you the radar. The back edge is kind of making its way toward the Dallas area and the warnings have now shifted southward, but any more rainfall is just incredible. I mean, what did your grandparents used to say? Careful what you wish for.

Thousands have been praying for rain, they just ended their second longest dry stretch in history. Dallas had a deficit since the beginning of the year, up 10 inches of rain. And they got it all in 24 hours. This is not how you want to plan it out.

It's such a drought-stricken area. You want days and weeks of light rain to penetrate that hard-crack soil. But this is what we had. And you mentioned it, over a summer's worth of rain falling in 24 hours, less than 24, really, second highest August rainfall, second most rain in a 24-hour period.

And it's falling on parched ground. When you look at the driest years on record, San Antonio, it's the driest, second driest, College Station, third, San Antonio, five, Dallas and Tyler. It's just hitting the ground. It's like concrete. So it's moving into the streets. It's submerging the cars. I was on

the air yesterday with Fredricka, and the models were showing exactly this, and feared for all the 911 calls.

Here's the back edge, the heavier in those brighter colors now sliding south of the Dallas area. They're less than a half-inch away, a half- inch of rain away from their wettest August in history, the wettest August, in 1915.

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So, this is what has fallen, Fort Worth/Dallas to the south. And notice all of it off to the east. On a larger scale, it gets concerning now for East Texas and parts of Louisiana, because that's where this is moving. The watches have been extended eastward, the warnings in red, but the watches now making their way toward Mississippi, because the stationary front, much, Victor, like we saw the historic flooding in St. Louis to Eastern Kentucky, it's down here to the south.

So it's just not moving anywhere. And it's got all the moisture it needs to feed that system in the days ahead. So it's not just over yet for Dallas Metroplex, but it's moving into Louisiana and Mississippi now.

BLACKWELL: All right, Tom Sater, thank you very much.

Russia is now claiming that it knows who's behind a weakened car bombing outside of Moscow that killed Russian television commentator Darya Dugina, the daughter of an influential and prominent supporter of Vladimir Putin.

Now, Russian media reports that the blast was detonated remotely by a Ukrainian woman. Ukraine denies any responsibility here.

CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow.

So, this investigation in Russia has begun. What do you know about it?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, the investigation seems to have moved extremely quickly in Russia.

In fact, after only a day of investigating, the Russians have now come out with saying that they know who's behind the killing of Darya Dugina. Now, they say that it was a Ukrainian woman who worked for Ukrainian special services who allegedly came to Russia with her very young daughter, scoped out Darya Dugina, then killed her in that bomb blast, and then managed to escape to Estonia.

So that's what the Russians are saying. But you're absolutely right to point out, Victor, that the Ukrainians are saying they have absolutely nothing to do with this, the Ukrainians hinting that they believe this might have been some sort of inside job. Of course, unclear what exactly happened. However, one of the things that we do have to note is that this could

lead to serious escalation or an even bigger escalation between Russia and Ukraine. There are a lot of Russians who are already speaking about revenge. And one of them is actually the father of Darya Dugina, Alexander Dugin, who, of course, is a very important ideologue here in Russia, some say very influential with Vladimir Putin as well.

I want to read you some of what he said in a statement today. This is the first time we have heard from him since his daughter was killed. He said -- quote -- "Our hearts yearn for more than just revenge or retribution. It's too small, not the Russian way. We only need our victory. My daughter laid her maiden life on her altar. So win, please."

So, essentially, he seems to be calling for Russia to be even more forceful in Ukraine. And there's a lot of voices, especially in the upper echelons of Russian Kremlin-controlled media, who are also calling for the same thing.

So, certainly, it's a situation of deep anger, if you will, here in large parts of the upper echelons here in Russian state media and politics as well, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Fred Pleitgen with the reporting, thank you.

Shawn Turner is the former director of communication for U.S. intelligence and a CNN national security analyst. David Sanger is White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times" and a CNN political and national security analyst.

Welcome to you both.

David, let me start with you.

And, first, there was a friend of Darya Dugina who said that this was likely an attack aimed at her father, Alexander Dugin. It was his vehicle. Is that your assessment going into this, that she is not a significant enough a player to target in this way?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that was the original thinking.

But it's also true that she was prominent on television, espoused many of the same views that her father did. You would think that the father, because of his closeness to Putin, would be the closer target. But what strikes me about this political assassination is that most of the assassinations we have seen in Russia have been aimed at critics of the Kremlin, not the Kremlin's allies.

The car bomb technique that was used is something we really haven't seen used very much in Russia since the 1990s, certainly not since Putin cracked down. And the FSB, the Russian intelligence agency that came back and said that she has moved to Estonia, that raises a new possibility here that there could be a strike at Estonia, which, of course, is a NATO member. And until now, Russia has avoided getting entangled with NATO members

because of President Biden's statements that he would defend every inch of NATO territory.

BLACKWELL: Shawn, let's talk about the claim from Russia that a Ukrainian woman is responsible. The Ukrainians say they have no involvement here.

Who are the likely suspects here, if you will? Are -- is this likely more domestic, considering the method of this assassination?

SHAWN TURNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes I think that, like David, I have a healthy dose of skepticism here with regard to whether or not the Ukrainians are responsible.

[14:10:07]

When I look at this, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Putin's interest will be of twofold. One, he would definitely want to know who was responsible, because he has to make an assessment as to whether or not someone is trying to send a message to him.

Look, Putin understands that a lot of those people in his orbit who have been sanctioned by the United States and Europe, they're not happy with the way things are going in Ukraine. So he will want to know the truth from that perspective.

But to the broader point, without regard to the facts, we understand, we understood from the very start that Putin would make an assessment as to what kind of narrative would be most valuable to him with regard to this bombing. Was he -- is he going to paint Russia as a victim and paint the United States or Ukraine as the aggressor?

So while it's unclear who exactly is responsible, there are two possible options. One is a message to Putin. And the idea that this is the Ukraine, I -- as I said at the outset, I have a healthy dose of skepticism that that might be the case.

BLACKWELL: And, Shawn, let me stay with you.

The potential impact on Putin's war in Ukraine? They have picked out who they say is responsible on the other side of the border. What do you think that will look like as they go for retaliation and revenge?

TURNER: Yes I think that I will be waiting to see what our own U.S. intelligence community says with regard to who's responsible here.

We know that, from the very start, that Putin has had an interest in moving beyond Ukraine. But my analysis is that he's not ready to do that yet. And so, while I think he could be laying the groundwork for attacks other places or at least laying the groundwork for the idea that it's not just Ukraine who, according to Putin, is being aggressive toward Russia, that it's others, I think that that is just the initial sort of groundwork.

I don't think he's ready to launch any sort of attack at this point. BLACKWELL: David, one more on Alexander Dugin.

Is he someone who is -- "Foreign Policy" magazine -- "Foreign Affairs" magazine, I should say, describe him as Putin's brain. Is he someone who is valuable because of his influence over Putin? Or is he a beloved figure across Russia? Is he someone who is nationally prominent?

SANGER: He's nationally prominent, but I'm not sure he's widely nationally read.

His writing tends to be relatively abstract. But as you saw in that statement that he issued, he is beyond a nationalist here. He is basically calling for Russia to expand the war and to go elsewhere, to go beyond Ukraine's borders, and has consistently. He's somebody who talks about the restoration, not only of the old Soviet Union, but basically the old Russia of the czars.

And so I think he's a prominent nationalist voice. And he will -- now that his daughter is a bit of a martyr to that cause, I think he will become even more prominent, probably, and Putin will make sure he does.

BLACKWELL: All right, David Sanger, Shawn Turner, thank you.

All right, this video is hard to watch, but it's important that we talk about it, this violent arrest captured on video. It appears to show officers repeatedly punching and kicking a suspect. We will talk about who's facing consequences.

Also, the deadline is approaching for the Justice Department to send: judge a proposed redaction of the Mar-a-Lago search affidavit. The judge now spells out his position about transparency and the evidence used for that affidavit.

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BLACKWELL: The three Arkansas officers under investigation after a violent arrest was caught on camera have now been identified.

Deputy Zack King, Deputy Levi White, and Mulberry Officer Thell Riddle have been removed from duty for the time being. The Crawford County sheriff said that he was concerned by what he saw on the video and vowed to see the investigation through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY DAMANTE, CRAWFORD COUNTY, ARKANSAS, SHERIFF: I give my word I will take appropriate actions, whatever they are. Whatever the outcome of the investigation is, I will do the appropriate thing and take those actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right, this video is difficult to watch, but it's important that we talk about it and see it here.

Here it is, two deputies and an officer repeatedly punching a man in the face, kneeing him in his back, in his ribs. You can hear a woman off camera say: "Don't beat him. He needs his medicine."

Now, the sheriff said the suspect was initially cooperative, but then tried to break free from the officers, and that led to the confrontation.

All right, let's get into the conversation now with CNN legal analyst and civil rights attorney Areva Martin and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. He is the former police chief in Washington, D.C., and Philly commissioner.

Chief, let me start with you.

Several of these conversations that we have had about this video have included, well, we don't know what happened before this. Is there a scenario in which this man could have done something that deserved this use of force, slamming his head onto the sidewalk?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. No.

No matter what took place before, it doesn't justify what you see in the video. Now, some level of force may have been justified, depending on the situation that led to that, he was resisting or what have you. But when you look at the video, particularly the punches to the face, lifting of his head, pushing it down into the concrete, kneeing him in the side, whatever he did, that's not called for.

[14:20:03]

An officer should only use that force necessary to make an arrest. That includes it has to be proportional based on the level of resistance that you encounter. And certainly, that individual, when you look at him, they're saying he's resisting. It looks to me like he's covering up because he's been pummeled.

So it's just a bad video, a bad situation. Those officers have a problem.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Areva, I mentioned that there's a woman heard on the video saying: "Don't beat him. He needs his medicine."

Now, we don't know who she is, how she would know, what medicine she's talking about. But this does suggest that there is possibly some mental health episode or challenge that this man was experiencing.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely, Victor.

And you have to wonder how, after George Floyd, a video like this could even surface, how actions like this, on behalf of police officers could even happen, how some individual like 27-year-old Randall could find himself on the ground being beaten by three police officers.

But it did happen. And we have to deal with it. It's horrifying from every perspective. And as the chief said, the level of force that officers can use has to be proportionate. If this individual, if Mr. Randall was at some point resisting arrest, he surely was not resisting at the point in which he's on the ground trying to ball himself up as if he's in the womb and covering his head.

Yes, there is allegations out there, Victor, that he suffered from some kind of mental health issues, and that he may have been involved in some kind of mental health episode. And we hear this witness who's screaming and trying to get the police to stop, very similar, again, to what we saw on the George Floyd situation.

There's allegations that the police were cursing at this witness or using expletives, telling her to mind her effing business, so many analogies to what we saw in the George Floyd situation, so many disturbing analogies, and, clearly, from what we can see, no justification for this kind of force and violence being perpetrated against 27-year-old Randall.

BLACKWELL: Chief, on that point of, "Don't beat him, he needs his medicine," if an officer hears that, is that relevant to their interaction in the moment? Should they apply that at all?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, he may certainly be on medication or whatever.

The real issue is, they're attempting to take him into custody, and how much force are they using in order to accomplish that? I mean, once he's safely taken into custody, then whatever medical issues he has can certainly be addressed.

But when you look at that video, there's no level of force that I can think of that is justified under those particular situations. I mean, you're talking about what we would call a level three use of force, which is potentially causing serious bodily harm or even death.

I mean, you can't just beat people in the face, pick their head up and drive it into the concrete, and then think that's a justifiable use of force. It isn't.

Now, there may have been some force that's necessary. I don't know if he resisted. I don't know if they had body cameras on or whatever. But whatever happened before doesn't justify what you saw on the ground.

BLACKWELL: Areva, Governor Asa Hutchinson mentions that this will be investigated. And the Arkansas State Police, they have confirmed that's going to begin. He said it will be investigated pursuant to the video evidence and the request of the prosecuting attorney.

Explain what that means. This is not that there will be charges. This is just a process that an investigation goes through, correct?

MARTIN: It was kind of an odd statement, Victor, when I saw that, that it will be investigated pursuant to a request from the prosecuting attorney. I'm not sure why the governor and every other elected official in that state didn't come out and express their outrage and shock in the same way that we are and saying that absolutely, positively there will be an investigation and that this -- make an emphatic statement about how this kind of conduct is never, ever acceptable.

Now, clearly, we saw the chief saying he wants to and will hold his officers accountable. But we did not hear the kind of forceful, emphatic statement that you think would be the logical response when you look at a video as horrifying as this one.

And we should also point out, Victor, this man was taken to a hospital. He was then released from a hospital. And he's, as far as we can tell, sitting in a jail cell facing upwards of eight or so charges that have been leveled against him, while these officers have been placed on administrative leave, no charges leveled against them.

But yet the man who was pummeled on this video is sitting in a jail cell facing charges, including terroristic threats. The irony of that is not lost and shouldn't be lost on any of us.

[14:25:03]

Again, I do want to say that the Arkansas State Police will be investigating this.

Areva Martin, Chief Ramsey, good to have you.

"The facts are reliable." Those are the words from the federal judge who approved the FBI's Mar-a-Lago search warrant. And now that same judge is speaking out on the legal battle over releasing at least parts of that affidavit.

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