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U.S. Intel Chiefs to Assess Security Risks from Seized Documents from Mar-a-Lago; Texas Has Bused Almost 9,000 Migrants to NYC and DC Over Governor's Criticism of Biden Administration Policies; Janet Petro, Director, Kennedy Space Center, Discusses Historic Artemis I Voyage to Moon & Monday's Test Launch. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 27, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST (voice-over): -- fetus was diagnosed with a fatal condition

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY DAVIS, DENIED ABORTION FOR NON-VIABLE FETUS: I want you to imagine what it's been like to continue this pregnancy for another six weeks after this diagnosis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The woman at the center of the controversy shares her story.

Meantime, NASA's most powerful rocket set for Monday's moon mission launch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASA ANNOUNCER: The Tiger has landed.

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BROWN: Artemis is on the launch pad and ready to fly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Now we're going back to the moon to stay, to live, to learn, to build.

BROWN: And a Missouri school district reinstates paddling as punishment. But would you want your children spanked at school?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's something that we don't anticipate using frequently. This is an opt-in-only option for parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin this hour with questions of national security and Donald Trump's stash of top-secret documents in Mar-a-Lago.

Just one day after the Justice Department released the redacted affidavit that led to the search of his Florida resort, the U.S. Intelligence Community is now assessing whether national security was put at risk.

And new tonight, a federal judge has scheduled a Thursday hearing to consider Donald Trump's request for a special master to oversee the FBI's review of evidence seized from his Florida home.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is here to break it all down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Pam, we are learning that the director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, confirmed to lawmakers on Friday that the Intelligence Committee is working together with the Justice Department to review all relevant documents retrieved from former President Trump's Florida home, Mar-a-Lago.

In a letter and House Oversight and House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Haines said her office and DOJ are conducting a classification review of relevant materials, including those recovered during the search of Mar-a-Lago earlier this month.

She also noted that the Intel Community will conduct, quote, "an assessment of the potential risk to national security that would result from the disclosure of the relevant documents."

The letter came after several lawmakers called for the Intelligence Community to carry out this kind of damage assessment. And notably, it was sent the same day the FBI affidavit was released.

That revealed that Trump kept documents at his home that appear to include information about human sources, and other extremely sensitive intel sources and methods.

Now, according to that affidavit, the FBI's preliminary review of 15 boxes that Trump returned earlier this year revealed that 184 of these documents contained classified markings. Including 67 that were marked as "confidential," 92 marked as "secret" and 25 marked as "top secret."

Some of the documents retrieved even had "HCS" markings, which, according to the office of the director of National Intelligence, are designed to protect, quote, "exceptionally fragile and unique human intelligence operations and methods."

Now, Trump and his allies have given numerous and sometimes conflicting explanations for why he kept the documents, including that the former president has issued some kind of blanket declassification order before he left office.

The FBI did acknowledge that argument in the affidavit but the rest of that section is redacted so it is not yet clear why they cited it -- Pam?

BROWN: All right. And as you mentioned there, Natasha, the redacts the affidavit, 38 pages long, much of it blacked out, but much of it also very illuminating.

Teams of CNN reporters, producers and researchers have been sifting through it. Here are some of the key takeaways.

As Natasha pointed out, the 184 classified documents retrieved in January contained files that were marked "confidential," "secret" and "top secret."

And there also markings on some of the documents indicating that they were about CIA sources and spies. Markings about NSA programs and the collection of intelligence and FISA -- that's foreign intelligence -- counterintelligence and other surveillance.

The affidavit, the FBI said, quote, "There's also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the premises."

So what led the FBI to believe that there was evidence of obstruction? That's redacted. The FBI did not disclose that evidence in the affidavit that we can see.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with James Clapper, former director of National Intelligence. And he says there are plenty of concerns about classified documents in a public place like Mar-a-Lago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I would imagine it's kind of a physical security nightmare in terms of preventing unauthorized access, since they really can't control who's in and out of the place.

And complicating this further is, I think, is not knowing exactly what the chain of custody has been for these documents, since they left the White House.

How were they transported? How were they protected? Who's had access to them at Mar-a-Lago? Has someone, perhaps, reproduced these documents or taken pictures of them?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:05]

BROWN: Let's continue this conversation. Joining me now is Steve Hall, CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russian operations. Also Loni Coombs, a CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor for Los Angeles County.

Steve, first to you.

What are your thoughts on the U.S. Intelligence Committee conducting the damage assessment?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I think it's entirely appropriate. I mean, we need to get to the bottom of not only what documents are there, what the classification were.

But getting away from the classification and legal issues a little bit, we need to know what was there and if bad things happened with that information.

In other words, if it were shared, as Jim Clapper just talked about, the chain of custody somehow involved, somebody who shouldn't have seen the documents seeing those documents.

The Intelligence Community, via the DNI, needs to do a damage assessment. Say, worst-case scenario, if some of this information somehow got out, was improperly used, or ruffled through, something like that, we need to know what the worst-case scenario is.

And the DNI and Intelligence Community has done this a number of times on a number of occasions. They're well set up for it. But it really it needs to be done just so they know what the worse-case scenario might be.

BROWN: And, Loni, presumably, this assessment will be done on a different track from the FBI investigation.

But did Donald Trump's legal case get more complicated with the Intelligence Community getting involved here, depending on what it finds?

LONI COOMBS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Pamela, I do think they're separate. I think the Intelligence Committee essentially is looking at the fallout. Right? If these were disclosed, if they did have exposure, what's going to happen there? Who's at risk? People at risk, technology at risk.

Really, what the DOJ is doing in this affidavit is going through how the documents were handled. If they were disclosed, how that happened.

I think, looking at this affidavit, even though it's highly redacted, it shows a clear path to the Espionage Act as well as obstruction of justice charge.

Looking at the Espionage Act, we know that is, if you have in your possession national security documents and you're asked legally and lawfully to turn them back over to a government agency and you don't do so. You retain them.

Clearly, in this affidavit, it laid out this timeline, starting back in May of 2021, where the National Archives started asking Trump for these documents for months and months.

They turned over some in January. There's 184 classified documents there. They continue to ask for these documents.

And, Pamela, even two weeks ago, after the search warrant, we see there's still 11 classified documents there at Mar-a-Lago.

It's very clear from this timeline, very damning as to Trump's behavior had he continued to hold onto the documents in violation of the Espionage Act.

As far as the obstruction of justice charge, this goes to the letter the Trump attorney sent to the FBI after they had this one-on-one meeting at Mar-a-Lago where they talk about the documents. Said, OK, we're done. No more classified documents here.

Then served the search warrant and they find, indeed, there are classified documents. So that letter there might be the basis for the obstruction of justice charge.

But clearly, there's a lot more to go into this investigation. They need to decide, find out why he kept the documents, what the purpose was, what his intent was, who they were shared with.

And that will determine who is charged and what they'll be charged with.

BROWN: A quick follow-up before I get back to Steve.

We talked how the intelligence assessment will look at the fallout. If it finds there was fallout, right, there really was a risk to national security, a tangible risk, could that not be used in a potential legal case to prove there was a violation of the Espionage Act and national security was put at risk because of this?

COOMBS: Yes. Pamela, a very good point. The Espionage Act they cited so far is just retaining the documents. There are other sections to the Espionage Act.

If you take the documents and you share them, right, with other people, with other countries, you're talking a whole other level of penalties under the Espionage Act. That would be something that may come out in that investigation.

What actually happened with those documents? Did Trump or any of his team do something intentionally to expose those documents to other places that would put our country in danger?

BROWN: And we don't know a lot here, Steve, in terms of what exactly these documents revealed, what was in them. We just know about how they were marked, according to the affidavit, that there was information that contained clandestine human sources.

Do you fear that these documents put lives at risk? Or do you think that that is a stretch?

HALL: No. I don't think it's a stretch at all. And I like your use of the phrase "fallout" because I think that's worth focusing on for just a second. At one level, as a former CIA person involved in human collection,

human intelligence, you're always concerned about the sources that are essentially extremely secrets, breaking laws overseas making sure the American government has the intelligence necessary to protect its own interests, its own national security.

[20:10:06]

But it's not just those people we're worried about. Not even the CIA people who might have been involved or the NSA people involved in the collection.

We're talking about American citizens. We're talking about troops on the battlefield, who collect on all of that sort of thing, who collect on counterterrorism information.

When you talk about fallout, we're talking about protecting the homeland. We're talking about not destroying necessarily, but I think there's a possibility of significant erosions in our national security.

So the legal stuff is critically important. We live under the rule of law. People need to be held responsible to legal standards.

But the fallout is really about national security. It's about protecting Americans. That's really what concerns me.

BROWN: Do you have a worry that -- as we know, some documents contained information about our foreign spies helping the United States. Are you worried there's already damage done?

As the U.S. government tries to give people, informants in other countries, to talk to it, to help with national security, people might be more reluctant to help.

Because they'll say, well, if you're a president, you can walk out of the White House and have documents in your storage unit, my info could be put out there, why would I put myself at risk like this?

HALL: That sort of commonsensical approach is exactly right. I think whenever the friendly intelligence services that we work hand in hand with overseas.

Again, whether it's counterterrorism information, whether it's a Russian attack on Ukraine or Iranian nukes, you know, the relationships that we spend so many years building with friendly foreign intelligence services.

When those folks start hearing things like, well, the United States is conducting a damage assessment on its handling of sensitive information, that, of course, will cause all of these services to say, well, hold on a second.

What did we pass them during this particular period of time? Will it damage our interests, our spies? And do we need to be a little more careful with the United States in the future? Now, I think it's gotten better since Donald Trump was president

because there were several incidents where I think a lot of our foreign allies were extremely concerned. It's a little better now.

But still, when they hear the words "damage assessment," that sends a chill up a lot of our foreign partners' spines.

BROWN: Steve Hall and Loni Coombs, thank you both.

Turning to the nation's border crisis, nearly 9,000 migrants have now been shuttled from Texas to U.S. cities in the northeast.

Despite complaints from Democratic mayors in New York and Washington, as well as the Biden administration, the Republican governor of Texas doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

CNN's Polo Sandoval has the latest from New York this evening -- Polo?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, the number of families arriving in New York in search of asylum is a figure that continues to grow constantly.

The more you hear from the families, who are in the middle of this, they'll tell you they are quickly learning that the hardships they have experiences are far from over, even after they arrive at a destination.

(voice-over): To give merely an idea what many of the people stepping off these border buses in New York City have experienced, just look at the images they're willing to share.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: This video taken by a woman and her partner earlier this summer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: The young couple kept a video diary during their two-month, 10-country journey from Lima, Peru, to New York City.

They carried only a few belongings on their backs and occasionally their 6- and 9-year-olds as they were trekking through the infamous Darian Gap linking South and Central America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: It's a place where the northerly path for many migrants often ends in tragedy, but not this family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: During the rest of their journey north, they swaddled their dog, Max, still a pup at the time, like a baby to sneak him on to buses and into hotels, fearing they would be separated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: But the actual blood, sweat and tears were all worth it for this moment, as they recount, the day they waded across the Rio Grande --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: -- and onto U.S. soil for the first time, officially requesting asylum.

After a brief stop in Texas, it was onto a bus and the three-day drive to New York City where they wait for their asylum cases to be heard.

(on camera): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

What was your first impression of New York?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Annabelle tells me reality set in reaching the urban jungle, their new home.

But as much as they want to start earning a living they can't.

[20:15:58]

You see, they're among the thousands of recently arrived migrants who have to petition for a work permit after submitting asylum applications. It's a process taking up to a year, according to New York City leaders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SANDOVAL: This man says he hopes the government can help him be a better provider for his family.

But more than anything else, he's pleading for the federal government to free his hands of the red tape that's keeping him from working legally.

MANUEL CASTRO, COMMISSIONER, NYC MAYOR'S OFFICE OF IMMIGRATION AFFAIRS: Most of the families I have spoken to want to get to work. They tonight want to stay in shelters. They want to contribute to society.

SANDOVAL: Immigration affairs commissioner, Manuel Castro, an immigrant himself, echoing calls for a fast-track solution.

CASTRO: Immigration advocates across the country are calling on the federal government to make it easier and make it quicker for asylum seekers to obtain work permits. That's by far the biggest obstacle.

SANDOVAL: This family says they won't risk their asylum cases by working off the books. They'll have to depend on the city's already strained shelter system

until they can get the government's green light to start living their American dream.

(on camera): New York Governor Kathy Hochul echoes calls for a speedy solution for getting these people the documentation they need to get to work. She's calling on the federal government to issue some sort of executive action potentially from President Biden that would allow her to help the migrants get permits and get to work.

But time and time again, Pam, when you hear from these families, they say they understand that the sooner they can provide for themselves, the sooner they can get themselves out of the city shelter system that is already at capacity -- Pamela?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: All right. Thanks so much, Polo.

Up next, 50 years since humans first stepped on to the lunar surface, NASA has a new mission to return to the moon. Kennedy Space Center Director Janet Petro joins me live to talk about Monday's critical test launch.

Also ahead for you tonight, a woman from Louisiana says she's being denied an abortion, even though the fetus that she's carrying has a fatal condition. She shares her story in a moment.

And would you want your child spanked in school? The debate on discipline in Missouri that not all parents are against. We're going to have the results of our Twitter poll here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:22]

BROWN: More than 50 years after the last Apollo mission, NASA looking to get another craft to the moon. That starts on Monday with the launch of the Artemis I mission. It's a 42-day unmanned journey around the moon and back.

Here's what NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said at NASA's pre-launch briefing earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON: Well, here we are, going back to the moon but we're going to live and learn and develop new technologies because we're eventually going to Mars.

It's no longer the Apollo generation. It's the Artemis generation. And that brings new discoveries, a whole new world of discoveries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me now is Janet Petro, director of the Kennedy Space Center.

Hi, Janet.

So there won't be any humans on this flight. What is the goal of this first mission and what makes it so spectacular?

JANET PETRO, DIRECTOR, KENNEDY SPACE CENTER: Good evening, Pam. And thank you for having me on tonight.

I'm going to start by saying how excited I am. I grew up here on the space coast. And as Bill was mentioning, my dad worked on the Apollo program. So to be here on the cusp of the first test flight of the Artemis generation, I'm not only excited but it's very, very personal for me.

So Artemis I, as you mentioned, will be launched from the Kennedy Space Center on Monday. It will loop around the earth. It will go out to the moon. Go around it. And then it will end up splashing down in the Pacific Ocean about 42 days later.

As you mentioned, it's uncrewed. It's a test flight. And so we expect that, you know, not everything might go as planned.

But, you know, with the space launch system, the rocket piece and then the Orion, the capsule, flying together for the first time in the extreme environment of deep space, we expect to learn a whole bunch before we put our astronauts on it to go land on the surface of the moon.

BROWN: And, of course, the plan is to get humans back on the moon in two years and Mars beyond that. Why are we doing this now so long after the last Apollo missions?

PETRO: So what I like to say is, you know, the Apollo missions, if you think about how long astronauts spend on the surface of the moon, it was really around, like, 30 days.

And we've been living and working in low-earth orbit aboard the International Space Station well over 20 years now and learned a lot of technology, learned how to live and to work in low-earth orbit.

Now it's time to go back into deep space and go first to the moon, the lunar surface, where, again, we will learn an awful lot of science, learn a lot about how to develop technologies that we need in deep space to live and work there. And then we can go on to Mars.

BROWN: Why is it so important to eventually get humans to Mars?

PETRO: So, you know, in our DNA, as humans, we're all about being explorers. And so, you know, we're here on earth. The technology we develop helps all of humanity down here on earth.

And as we explore further and further into our solar system, we learn more about how the earth was formed, and what may have happened to it over the years. And so getting to Mars is the next natural step in that exploration on the surface. It's our nearest planet. It's very, very interesting from both a science perspective. And so getting humans there is the ultimate goal for us.

[20:25:00]

BROWN: All right, Janet Petro, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate it.

PETRO: Thank you, Pam. And go Artemis!

BROWN: All right. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. California plans to ban the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2035. How realistic is that idea? I'll ask CNN's chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, up next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Drone footage from Pakistan shows the aftermath of what is being called one of the worst humanitarian disasters of the decade.

The country's minister for climate change says at least 33 million people have been affected by catastrophic flooding in recent weeks, nearly 1,000 people have died, thousands more are now homeless. And earlier today, Pakistan authorized its army to assist with relief and rescue operations.

[20:30:00]

Well, China's facing the opposite problem, a record-breaking heatwave over the past two months at the same time as record low rainfall. The lack of water are now forcing major Chinese cities to impose rolling blackouts, some areas going without power for more than 10 hours a day.

So let's get to CNN's chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir. So, Bill, China is a clear but alarming example of the domino effect of climate change, right? You have rising temperatures, bringing a drought, drought disrupting the energy supply. The next thing you know, electricity is being rationed. And China's making it all worse by burning more coal. Is there a solution?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, wow. This is the trillion dollar question, Pamela. Unfortunately, there's no easy solution. If it would be, we'd have figured it out. I think right now, it is a great example of a country with so many people well over a billion people and trying to pull energy really from whatever resource they can. They are leading the world and putting new solar online but they also are leading the world and putting new coal online.

And, yes, the irony of some of their coal mines being flooded by sort of freakishly unnatural disasters, which slowed that production. The drought, as you mentioned, drying up the Yangtze River, the worst drought on record in China. And again, this is the world's leader in carbon emissions right now. The United States, historically, has been the biggest emitter of sort of planet cooking pollution. But China, by far, is the leader now.

And if they are up against, you know, drawing down their carbon footprints, what does that mean for the developing countries? So it is a really tense time. But that's just one little snapshot of the globe, we're seeing the same sort of trends, as you know, play out here, America, Europe, part of Africa, all at the same time.

BROWN: Yes. I mean, there's severe drought in the Western United States, it's causing water levels at Lake Mead to get so low that people are discovering bodies placed in a lake all the way back to the 70s. Lake Mead provides water to 25 million people across seven states. This is what it looks like right now, we're going to show you. Where does the threat of water shortages rank in the list of threats posed by climate change?

WEIR: I think it's the biggest one that not enough people are really talking about, because the fountains are still, you know, blasting water in front of the casinos in Vegas, the tap still turned on in Palm Springs or Los Angeles, unlike other parts of the world, northern Mexico, which shares the Colorado River, they are trucking in water in some communities, things are so dire down there.

But again, in the United States, I think a lot of the climate shock is insulated from the average person. And -- but it's going to become more obvious. Now the first ever tier-two evictions kicked in as a result of Lake Meads' scary low volume. It should actually be lower than it is, but they're using some creative math counting water that was left up in Lake Powell as if it was in Lake Mead in order to avoid triggering mandatory cuts to California, which is the biggest consumer of Colorado River water, agricultural areas, mainly.

And so cities and tribal nations are next on the list to get mandatory cuts. And there's no really relief in sight. We're in the 23rd year of this mega drought, Pamela, and it can't make more. The snowpack year to year is getting smaller. And so all you can really do is conserve and a lot of -- lot can be saved that way. But it takes a different mindset about every precious drop, you know, making the most of that whether you need a lawn or not, you know. Some -- in some places, people shower with a bucket in the shower, so the extra drips can go to water your plants. I mean, it's going to get to that point as -- the longer this thing goes on.

BROWN: Wow. I mean, just putting it in perspective. It's just -- it's alarming. And I think you're right, I think people are not paying enough attention to this and what this could look like months years down the road. I want to ask you about something else and what's going on in California where regulators, this week, voted to ban new gasoline cars by 2035. It's one of the first bans worldwide. At least 15 states followed California's previous zero emission vehicle regulations. How influential do you think this new ban will be?

WEIR: It could be a complete game changer. Absolutely. As for the reason you said, Washington State already just this weekend said, we're going to follow their lead. We're going, you know, zero emissions by 12 -- 2035 next couple of years or so.

[20:35:01]

What's interesting about this story, you know, California tried this about 30 years ago and it failed miserably because, really, there was no appetite for electric cars at the time. There are only a couple models, the car dealers fought it in court, but it's a different world right now. Not only there's this huge demand, there's -- you know, the waiting list for an electric F-150 pickup truck is years long now.

And there's all these new incentives in Inflation Reduction Act as 10 years of sort of consumer incentives built in there as well. And it's what the world is going. Europe says they're going to go this way. The smallest province in China allow us to go gas free by 2030, but it's hugely ambitious in the time scale. Because of all the materials needed to build an electric car, you need lithium, and you need rare earth minerals, and you need semiconductors, and things that are in short supply now and only going to be in bigger demand as we go forward.

But the optimists who believe in California's idea, this was promised by the governor who said two years ago, we're going to wean the state off of gasoline eventually. They think that this could be the tipping point, because it's such a huge car economy, 31 million gas vehicles right now in California, way more than the next few states, I think, Florida and Texas combined.

And so the influence of that -- because General Motors and Ford, they don't want to have five different production lines for the same vehicle, you know, based on the pollution laws of different states. Henry Ford figured out that uniformity is the key to mass production of automobiles. And so unlike for three years ago, General Motors says they share a zero carbon future, zero emissions future with California. Ford says they're spending billions on this area. Honda warns that this is a benchmark, but we're going to need to figure out the production supply chain, not to mention the charging stations that need to be built out, the new power grid transmission lines to carry clean energy to charge all these new vehicles.

But again, the optimist would say, eventually, there's going to be a day -- there already -- there's a test program or the first 100 some of the -- one of the early adopters of the Ford F-150 will be paid 25 bucks a month off their car payment, if their local power company can take energy from their idle truck, maybe in the middle of the night.

And so the idea that your car can not only be your transportation, but your energy storage of the future is an exciting idea for a lot of people, but there's a lot of hurdles to get there. And it will be piecemeal. There's a lot of dates, you know, that don't believe in this, as we know the politics in the United States these days. So it'd be really interesting to see how this plays out, especially since they want to ramp up the 35 perfect electric just in the next couple of years.

BROWN: Yes, yes.

WEIR: I don't know if we can, you know, we can get there practically.

BROWN: Well, Bill Weir, always great to have you on and you're passionate energy as well. I know we could go on and on about this topic. Thanks so much for your time tonight.

WEIR: You got to tell me to shut up, Pam. I love it. Thanks for having me.

BROWN: No, no, no. I love it. I'm into it as well. No, not at all. I was enjoying the segment. I hope our viewers were to. Thanks so much, Bill.

WEIR: I hope so. All right.

BROWN: Well, a woman from Louisiana says she has been denied an abortion, even though the fetus that she is carrying couldn't survive once it's born. You're going to hear from her, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:23]

BROWN: Laws banning or severely restricting abortion have now gone into effect in about a dozen states and their residents are starting to feel the repercussions. And one of these states, Louisiana, a pregnant woman, Nancy Davis, says she was denied an abortion at a Baton Rouge hospital, even though the fetus she's carrying has a fatal condition called acrania.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY DAVIS, CLAIMS SHE WAS DENIED AN ABORTION IN LOUISIANA: Basically they said I had to carry my baby to bury my baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Acrania is a rare disorder in which the skull does not form inside of the womb. Now, the hospital Davis went to says laws pertaining to, quote, medically futile exceptions for abortion are complex and hard to navigate. She now plans to travel out of state next week for the procedure.

And earlier tonight, I spoke with Nancy Davis her, fiance, Shedric Cole, and her lawyer Benjamin Crump. I asked Nancy what the hospital told her once she had reached that agonizing decision to get an abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS: What the hospital pretty much told me because of the Roe versus Wade and by me living in Louisiana, they will not be able to do it. And I would have to go out of state to get it done.

BROWN: What was that like for you to learn about that the hospital wouldn't grant your wife's wishes? SHEDRIC COLE, NANCY DAVIS FIANCE: I was -- I was confused. I was -- we all, we're in a dark place. Didn't understand what, you know, fully what was going on. When we initially got the diagnosis that the baby had acrania, it was completely unfamiliar to us. And so we started to educate ourselves about it, going through the process. And -- but we've been continuing to pray and -- first and needing all family for financial support. And we've been trying to make the best of it.

BROWN: Yes. This is certainly not a situation you ever want to find yourself in, no doubt. And, Benjamin, you also said in this press conference that Louisiana lawmakers are causing quote unspeakable pain, emotional damage and physical risk to your client because there is confusion with the trigger laws. What is the legal path forward for Nancy in your view?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR NANCY DAVIS: Well, the hope is that the legislature and the governor in Louisiana would put people over politics, whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, you would all have to agree that making Nancy Davis carry this baby just to bury this baby is inhumane.

[20:45:08]

And so we are calling on the governor or the Senate leadership in Louisiana to have a special session to address these vague and ambiguous laws to make laws that are clear and laws that protect their citizens. So the medical providers will know what is legal or not legal. Can you imagine them having to make this decision said, I may lose my medical license and worse, I may have to go to prison if I give medical care to this woman who is in medical need, and that's what this is about women. Women today is massive, tomorrow, it can be any woman in America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Our thanks to Benjamin Crump, Nancy Davis, and Shedric Cole, for speaking with me earlier tonight. And we want to read you more of the statement from Woman's Hospital in Baton Rouge. A spokeswoman told CNN, "We look at each patient's individual circumstances and how to remain in compliance with all current state laws to the best of our ability, even if it's -- if a specific diagnosis falls under medically futile exceptions provided by the Louisiana Department of Health. The laws addressing treatment methods are much more complex and seemingly contradictory."

Well, you were in the CNN NEWSROOM. This could be the deadliest year in recent memory for migrants crossing into parts of Texas. We're going to take a closer look at the human toll.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:07]

BROWN: Well, this year has been one of the deadliest in recent history for migrants trying to come to the U.S. from Mexico. CNN's Rosa Flores continues to follow this story for us, but we do have a warning. Some of the video you're about to see is graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This 22-year-old Mexican construction worker crossed into Texas with his brother last week, authority say.

CORRINE STERN, WEBB COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: They'd been walking for three days without any food.

FLORES: The patches on his body.

Did he get medical attention?

STERN: He did.

FLORES: Signs paramedics tried to save his life. Migrants have tried entering the U.S. southern border a record-breaking nearly two million times since October. And this man's tragic story is far from unique. Webb County Medical examiner, Dr. Corinne Stern, says this year is on pace to be the deadliest year for migrants crossing into this region of Texas in recent memory.

STERN: I'm seeing an extreme increase in the number of border crossing deaths compared to other years.

FLORES: So much so, Stern recently did something she says she has never done in her 20-year career. She told officials in the 11-border county she serves that her office is at capacity.

STERN: And so we're asking them to store them at their funeral homes until we have a space available.

FLORES: And in Maverick County, one of the deadliest county, says Stern, a funeral home there tells CNN they're at capacity too. And with the medical examiner not taking the deceased, they are now burying unidentified migrants.

In the back of the county cemetery, there are 16 fresh graves. There were no funerals, no family, no flowers. All the graves are marked with partial crosses made out of PVC piping. All of these are migrant Jane and John Does, except for one. There's a baby John Doe.

STERN: Plus 16, 83 (PH).

FLORES: Stern says she has 260 deceased migrants in her custody. The majority died this year from drowning or hyperthermia and are pending identification.

TOM SCHMERBER, MAVERICK COUNTY SHERIFF: This is part of where (INAUDIBLE)

FLORES: Despite the dangers, Maverick County Sheriff, Tom schmurder, says, the arrival of migrants is not stopping and neither are the deaths. He shows us post-mortem photos, some too graphic not to completely blur including of a child of just some of the migrant deaths in the past seven months. SCHMERBER: This is a crossing area.

FLORES: And it's every day that you're finding bodies.

SCHMERBER: Every day.

FLORES: And then shows us. A 3-year-old in this area?

SCHMERBER: This area.

FLORES: Where a 3-year-old drowned Monday.

SCHMERBER: And I was informed that he was taken out and gave him CPR but he died.

FLORES: Tuesday, our cameras were there as another body was recovered from the Rio Grande, this time, a man. Yards away, dozens of migrants who had just crossed the river waited for Border Patrol, including two Cuban women in their 20s who did not want to be identified for fear it could impact their immigration cases.

How deep was the water for your daughter? She shows us it was about waist deep and then got emotional.

When asked about children dying on the very river she had just crossed.

She says it was a tough decision for her daughter's future.

Most likely, the same hopes and dreams this man had, his, cut short, but Stern says he was fortunate not to die alone.

STERN: His brother stayed behind and was with him at the time Border Patrol found him.

FLORES: Which means unlike the hundreds of other unidentified migrants in her custody, he will reunite with his family soon, says Stern, and has this message for anyone thinking about crossing the border.

[20:55:02]

STERN: Politics aside, all these deaths are ruled an accident, an accident by definition is preventable 100 percent. Stay home.

FLORES: Rosa Flores, CNN, along the U.S.-Mexico border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, a school board and Cassville, Missouri has approved the return of spanking at schools. One hour ago, we asked you if you wanted your child spanked in school. Well, here are the results of our Twitter poll, 90 percent said no. They do not approve, 1,400 people voted. Just so you know, I'm in the capital N-O column as well.

Thank you so much for watching. I'm Pamela Brown. Have a good night.

[21:00:00]