Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Trump Dismisses Affidavit Release, Possible Evidence Of Obstruction; Trump Attorneys Criticized Over Questionable Legal Advice; Zaporizhzhya Power Plant Reconnected To Ukraine's Power Grid; Rescue Work Near Russia's Rail Station Strike Ends; Questions Around Biden's Student Loan Forgiveness Plan; Mississippi Inundated With Excessive Rainfall; NASA's Artemis Set To Launch Monday. Aired 5-6a ET
Aired August 27, 2022 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[05:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hello and welcome to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world I'm Kim Brunhuber.
Ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, the U.S. Justice Department released the redacted affidavit behind the unprecedented search of Donald Trump's Florida home. They go so far as to say there's potentially, quote, "evidence of obstruction."
Plus, as unanswered questions swirl around the Biden administration's new student forgiveness loan, a look at disparity of relief for minorities.
And Ukraine's nuclear plant is reconnected to the national electricity grid. But President Zelenskyy says the danger isn't over yet.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: We're getting our clearest look yet into the U.S. Justice Department's investigation into classified documents kept at Mar-a- Lago. A redacted version of the affidavit the FBI submitted to obtain the search warrant details what federal investigators expected to find.
That includes improperly taken classified national security materials as well as evidence of obstruction.
In a court filing Friday, Donald Trump's legal team said the redacted affidavit, quote, "raises more questions than answers" and underscores why a so-called special master is needed to review the evidence taken during the search. Jessica Schneider has more on the key takeaways from the unsealed document.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Startling new details about the hundreds of pages of documents former President Trump kept at Mar-a-Lago for months as the National Archives tried to get them back.
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: The top secret stuff and compartmental can get people killed. It is completely alarming.
SCHNEIDER: The now unsealed affidavit revealing 14 of the 15 boxes the Archives revealed in January of 2022 contained classified information, 184 unique documents in all, 67 marked confidential, 92 marked secret and 25 marked top secret.
Prosecutors said of most significant concern was that highly classified records were unfoldered, intermixed with other records and otherwise improperly identified. Plus, some documents had HCS markings, particularly alarming to intelligence experts.
STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The HCS stuff basically means that there's information in those boxes in the basement of Mar- a-Lago that pertain to or possibly came from human sources. They usually get imprisoned. And if it's in a place like Russia or any other authoritarian society, were oftentimes simply executed. That type of information is just incredibly sensitive.
SCHNEIDER: The Justice Department redacting pages of information from the affidavit in order to protect witness information and other key details from the ongoing criminal investigation into classified material at Mar-a-Lago.
In particular, prosecutors writing in their legal memo to the judge, information in the affidavit could be used to identify many if not all of these witnesses. If witnesses' identities are exposed, they could be subjected to harms, including retaliation, intimidation or harassment and even threats to their physical safety.
ROBERT LITT, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: At the end of the day, this is probably a net plus for the government. The judges found that they have excised all information that would compromise sources and methods or that the Justice Department would be concerned about.
SCHNEIDER: But left unredacted is an email Trump Attorney Evan Corcoran sent to the National Archives in May claiming that Trump had the authority to keep the papers at his Florida home after he left office, saying Trump has absolute authority to declassify documents and presidential actions involving classified documents are not subject to criminal sanction.
But DOJ investigators weren't deterred. There was probable cause to believe that additional documents that contain classified NDI or national defense information or that are presidential records subject to record retention requirements currently remain at Mar-a-Lago.
And there is probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found.
HALL: What is a good explanation for why really anybody but certainly a former president included in that group would want that stuff or have this stuff stored in the basement?
SCHNEIDER: And about half of that 38-page affidavit is redacted. That's because the Justice Department's criminal investigation is still moving forward.
Prosecutors have revealed they're looking into violations of the Espionage Act, concealment of government records, also obstruction.
[05:05:00]
SCHNEIDER: So the next question is, will anyone ultimately be charged and, if so, who?
Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: CNN legal analyst Areva Martin joins us from Los Angeles.
Thanks so much for being here with us.
So much was redacted, so what did we learn here?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we learned, Kim, that Donald Trump is both petulant and dishonest.
Petulant, because he refused to turn over documents that the National Archives and the DOJ repeatedly asked him to turn over; and dishonest because he told them in January, when he delivered boxes to the National Archives, that was all he had, that he turned over all of the classified and sensitive documents that he took to Mar-a-Lago.
Now we know that to be a complete falsehood. So even though the affidavit was heavily redacted, names and other key pieces of information were not made available to the public, there was enough there to determine that Trump acted in a way that potentially could cause him to be in a great deal of legal trouble.
BRUNHUBER: That speaks to the mention of unlawful concealment in the first line of this.
How significant is that?
MARTIN: Incredibly significant. The whole case that the Department of Justice based this affidavit on was that he had documents that he was unauthorized to have removed from the White House.
He continued to retain those documents. He was in possession of documents that he was not authorized to have in his possession, documents that should have been nowhere near his private beachfront, unsecured property, miles away from the White House. When he was told that, he, rather than comply with the request and
turn over everything made available to him, he engaged in deception. He continued to make false statements to the Department of Justice. That's what causes many to believe he may be facing criminal charges himself.
BRUNHUBER: Now the affidavit said several of the documents also contain what appears to be Trump's handwritten notes.
One of the questions that occurs is, when were those notes made?
Can we infer anything from that if, for example, they were made after he left office?
What would that suggest?
MARTIN: That's a good question. What we're hearing from a lot of Republicans is that he somehow declassified all of these documents. And implicit in their arguments is that, because he engaged in these broad scale declassifications, that the documents belonged to him.
We know Donald Trump had the very distorted idea that government property was his property and he had the authority to do whatever he wanted, include handling them in such a negligent and cavalier way.
We don't know when he made those notations on the documents. What we do know is that surveillance tape was turned over to the Department of Justice and that they saw people going in and out of the storage facility.
They saw boxes of the documents being stuffed into containers. And there was lots of concerns about how safe, if at all, these documents were. We don't even know if duplicates were made, if photocopies were made, if pictures were taken of the documents, if they were uploaded onto some sort of computer system.
There's so much we don't know. But what we did learn today, Kim, is that Donald Trump removed documents that he was not authorized to do so and he remained in possession of them almost 18 months after he left the White House.
BRUNHUBER: From Trump's point of view, his lawyers responded to a judge's request that he elaborate on his request that a court appoint a special master to oversee the review of that evidence.
What if anything did we learn from that?
MARTIN: We learn that the legal team that Donald Trump hired to file that motion is incredibly incompetent. The documents that they filed, first of all, it was before the wrong court, before the wrong judge.
They didn't state a clear cause of action. There were issues with the service of the filing that was made by these attorneys and even this Trump-appointed judge said, look, demonstrate to me that I even have the legal jurisdiction to make a ruling, to make a determination consistent with what was requested in that motion. [05:10:00]
MARTIN: So it is very clear that he is having a difficult time finding competent counsel since he has left the White House.
BRUNHUBER: So many twists and turn in this story with serious implications. Really appreciate your analysis, Areva Martin, thank you so much.
MARTIN: Thank you, Kim.
BRUNHUBER: U.S. stock markets ended the week in negative territory. That was after investors got a warning about inflation from the Federal Reserve chairman. The Dow Jones industrial average closed down more than 1,000 points, some 3 percent.
The S&P 500 also fell more than 3 percent and the Nasdaq closed nearly 4 percent lower. All three indexes were down about 4 percent for the week.
Now Friday's speech from Fed chair Jerome Powell clearly weighed heavily on investors. Americans are already dealing with higher interest rates and prices for consumer goods. But U.S. President Biden is hoping to highlight some positive economic news as he campaigns for Democrats in the midterm elections. CNN's Phil Mattingly has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The economy is looking good so far.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House hailing a monthly drop in consumer prices.
BHARAT RAMAMURTI, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: A lot of good news in the economy. Our focus here is to support households, keep our eye on the ball on inflation and hopefully come out the other side with steady and stable growth.
MATTINGLY: With inflation still at a four-decade high and this warning from the Fed chair.
JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: While higher interest rates, slower growth and softer labor market conditions will bring down inflation, they will also bring some pain to households and businesses.
MATTINGLY: The deceleration presenting a glimmer of optimism for White House officials, buoyed further by a nearly seven-point jump in August consumer sentiment, signs of progress President Biden has pledged to deliver, capping a whirlwind month of legislative victories.
BIDEN: We've done all this but then our critics say, inflation. You mean the global inflation caused by the worldwide pandemic and Putin's war on Ukraine?
We're making progress.
MATTINGLY: And right as the White House hits the gas on Biden's midterm campaign effort, Biden traveling to reliably blue Maryland to unveil a fiery and aggressive new approach.
BIDEN: In 2020, you and 81 million Americans voted to save our democracy. That's why Donald Trump isn't just a former president, he is a defeated former president.
MATTINGLY: After 19 months beset by a crisis and his own COVID precautions, a true campaign-style rally and a clear effort to harness early signs of Democratic electoral energy sparked by the Supreme Court's decision to strike down Roe v. Wade.
BIDEN: The court and its opinion used the phrase that women have a right vote to change this. Well, guess what, MAGA Republicans don't have a clue about the power of women. Let me tell you something. They are about to find out.
MATTINGLY: But Biden also laying out the stakes in dire terms at a reception before that rally, pointing to the, quote, entire philosophy underpinning former President Donald Trump's political power, as, quote, like semi-fascism but the rally included only a single mention of Biden's latest seismic policy decision on student loans.
BIDEN: Thanks to our historic deficit reduction, we can afford to cancel $10,000 in student debt and $20,000 if you're on a Pell Grant for tens of millions of Americans making under $125. Now this is a game changer.
MATTINGLY: As officials continue to grapple with political backlash and continued questions over the cost.
BIDEN: Look, people need help. This is not going to cause inflation, number one. Number two, it will generate economic growth.
MATTINGLY: White House officials are keenly aware that a day, a week, even a month of positive data does not necessarily turn things around. There's a very long and potentially bumpy road ahead when it comes to these four-decade high price increases.
They only need to watch chairman Jerome Powell's remarks in Jackson Hole and watch the market reactions to those remarks. The chairman made very clear the Fed is going to continue to be aggressive on rate increases.
And the market reacting, down more than 1,000 points, the sharpest drop since May. As I said, a long road ahead, the White House officials acknowledge. But they are certainly optimistic about what they have seen recently -- Phil Mattingly, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: The images are nothing less than horrific at the site of a Russian strike at a railway station in Ukraine. And rescue workers now say their work in the train cars ripped apart by the Russian artillery is done.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We tried to keep away from them. It was scary. They walked around with machine guns and who knows what they could do?
At night they would get drunk, shoot in the air. People were scared.
BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Ukrainians tell us about their life under Russian occupation near the Zaporizhzhya nuclear plant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[05:15:00]
BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Civilians are fleeing even though the latest crisis at the plant seems to be averted. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: Well, what Ukraine's president could have led to potential radiation disaster appears to have been averted at the nation's largest nuclear facility.
The Zaporizhzhya plant is back online and reconnected to the Ukrainian power grid. It lost connection on Thursday after fires damaged a key power line. But President Zelenskyy warned the situation will be back to square one if the plant is disconnected again. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I want to emphasize that the situation remains very risky and dangerous. Any repeat of yesterday's event; that is any disconnection of the plant from the grid, any actions by Russia that could trigger the shutdown of the reactors, will again put the plant one step away from disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Meanwhile, Russia says it's doing everything necessary to allow inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency to go to Zaporizhzhya. The agency wants to determine the situation at the plant which is occupied by Russia.
[05:20:00]
BRUNHUBER: Now why was that disconnection from the grid such a big deal? Having an external power source is a must for nuclear plants, which need it to cool their reactors and prevent a meltdown. As Sam Kiley reports from Zaporizhzhya, other safety concerns didn't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: After a 24-hour period, in which the future of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant literally looked in possible doubt, there is now a sense of relief. But its problems are not over because it remains on a front line.
KILEY (voice-over): Ukraine's biggest nuclear power plant is making history that no one wants to read.
Its six reactors are the first ever to have fallen into enemy hands and the first to have the main power source for their cooling systems cut during combat. They're also the first to have triggered the emergency cooling system, to avoid meltdown and a radioactive disaster because of war.
ZELENSKYY (through translator): If the diesel generators hadn't turned on, if the automation had not reacted after the Blackout, we would already be forced to overcome the consequences of a radiation accident.
KILEY: Its only source of mainline electricity from government-held territory was cut. The government here says by Russian shelling. Russia captured the plant in March and has been using it as an artillery fire base for a month. It has been hitting civilian towns west across the Dnipro River.
Civilians have been fleeing to the town closest to the plant in fear of war and of a radioactive disaster brought on by it. Russian troops, they said, were ill-disciplined and dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We tried to keep away from them. It was scary. They walked around with machine guns and who knows what they could do?
At night they would get drunk, shoot in the air. People were scared.
KILEY: The power to cool the systems was restored yesterday and the reactors eventually reconnected to the Ukrainian grid on Friday, supplying up to a fifth of the country's electricity. But key fears that Russia may cut powers to the cooling system again as part of the alleged plant to steal its output and that would risk a meltdown.
Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant is only about 20 miles away from where I'm standing. There's a powerful easterly blowing at a moment. If there was a disaster there, radioactive material would be carried into the sun and into Europe.
International demands that Russia removes its forces from the plant and allow nuclear inspectors in are increasingly strident. In Ukraine, nuclear decontamination drills are just another part of war. KILEY: Now the plans of the International Atomic Energy Agency to visit the Zaporizhzhya power plant have moved up. They're saying they may be able to get there in a matter of days. That's much quicker than had been anticipated.
They still have to get to a location on a front line. And there are no indications at all from the Russians they will agree to any kind of demilitarization of this power plant. If that doesn't happen, it's hard to see how these safety issues, problems will go away, even in the longer term -- Sam Kiley, CNN, in Zaporizhzhya.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Ukrainian officials say rescue operations are over after a Russian strike on a rail station. Ukraine says Russia hit a civilian target, killing at least 25 people. Russia claims the attack killed 200 Ukrainian military members.
Meanwhile, Russia has blocked the final draft of a nuclear disarmament agreement negotiated at the United Nations. Diplomats say Moscow requested last-minute changes to the treaty.
The move came after the U.S. and dozens of countries issued a statement warning of the nuclear threat posed by Russia's takeover of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhya nuclear plant. For more on all developments in Ukraine, Nada Bashir joins us from London.
What more can you tell us about the train station?
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, as you laid out, Kim, we have heard from Ukrainian officials that that rescue operation has concluded as of Friday, a tragic few days since that incident on Wednesday.
But as you said, the Russian Federation continues to maintain the strike was targeting Ukrainian service men. They say they striked (sic) 200 Ukrainian servicemen and 10 equipment units.
That stands in contrast to what we have been hearing from Ukrainian officials, who say that there were no soldiers present at the scene and that at least 25 civilians were killed in the attack.
Now they described this as a targeted, terrorist incident. This isn't the first time the Russian Federation have denied allegations of targeting civilian infrastructure.
[05:25:00]
BASHIR: We heard from the United Nations expressing their condemnation, calling on both parties to respect their obligations under international humanitarian law to avoid the striking of and targeting of civilian infrastructure.
This comes as we see the U.N. special coordinator for Ukraine, Denise Brown. She is on her way to assess the humanitarian situation on the ground and the work of humanitarian aid organizations operating in Ukraine.
She has expressed her condemnation of the attack but also stressed that there needs to be a complete commitment to those obligations by both parties.
But of course, as we continue to see those attacks ramping up, there is real concern as to whether or not Russia will continue with this targeting of civilian infrastructure. It is becoming increasingly difficult to verify the facts on the ground.
BRUNHUBER: Some positive developments about the amount of grain that's been exported from Ukraine, which could be literally lifesaving for many people around the world.
BASHIR: Absolutely. It is lifesaving for those nations most dependent on Ukraine's grain exports. We have seen a real milestone being hit, some 1 million tons of grain and other agricultural goods being exported from Ukraine's southern Black Sea ports over the last month.
Since that Black Sea grain initiative deal was signed in Istanbul by Turkiye, the United Nations and delegations from Russia and Ukraine and, of course, yesterday, we also heard from that joint coordination center, which was established in Istanbul.
It outlined that a new maritime corridor has been opened in the Black Sea, allowing for the passage of grain and other agricultural goods to pass through safely through a corridor that is expected to shorten the transit time of those exports.
So there are some positive developments there. There is real hope, at least on the Turkish part, that this deal, the success of this initiative could lay the groundwork and framework for further talks between Russia and Ukraine, with the United Nations and Turkiye involved, of course.
There have been previous attempts for negotiations brought forth by the Turkish government. They haven't proved successful. But the success of the grain deal could prove to provide the environment for further talks. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. Let's hope so. Nada Bashir, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
U.S. President Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan is drawing praise and criticism.
But what impact will it actually have on millions of Americans struggling to make payments?
Many critics say the debt relief plan goes too far, others say it doesn't go far enough, especially for students of color. Ahead, why some say complete elimination of student debt is needed to change a lifelong racial wealth gap in the U.S. Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world, I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
There is still plenty of unanswered questions of President Biden's newly-announced student loan forgiveness plan, like when borrowers will start to see that relief and how the country plans to pay for it. CNN's Brian Todd is taking a closer look at the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vanessa Russell recently told CNN she is saddled with $48,000 of student loan debt.
VANESSA RUSSELL, STUDENT LOAN BORROWER: I can't afford my expenses. I can't afford my groceries. I can't afford my transportation, my rent and still try to put money aside for student debt.
MARC STEWART, BUSINESS JOURNALIST: It's one of the largest contributors to household debt and can haunt many students throughout their lives.
TODD (voice-over): Vanessa Russell likes President Biden's new plan, where borrowers can have $10,000 of their student loans wiped out if they make less than $125,000 a year or are married couples or heads of households making less than $250,000; $20,000 of student loans can be forgiven for those who received Pell grants, given to students from low and middle income families.
The president is also planning to extend the pause on all student loan payments, a moratorium put in place during the pandemic until January.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really excited. It's going to cut my loan almost in half.
TODD (voice-over): Others are critical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other people have other types of debt and those aren't being forgiven. So it's just tough to swallow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's enough to come out and say they're forgiving $10,000 to $20,000. It's just kind of ridiculous.
TODD (voice-over): What if you took out a loan but couldn't finish college?
MICHELLE SINGLETARY, "THE WASHINGTON POST": This broadbased loan forgiveness will cover people who took out debt but didn't have the degree.
TODD (voice-over): But not every borrower with take advantage of this.
SINGLETARY: It also won't benefit people who have private student loans. This is only offered to people who have federal loans.
TODD (voice-over): That's the bulk of borrowers, experts say. But critics are calling this plan unfair, a slap in the face to people who saved for college, who worked doggedly to pay off their loans or who went into the military or another field because they couldn't take on student debt.
Some argue that American taxpayers will be footing the bill for a benefit for people who don't need it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, not everybody that has student debt is rich. Disproportionately student debt is being held by people that have advanced degrees and pretty good income. And they can bear it a lot more than everyday Americans, that are seeing the cost of their gasoline and clothing go up.
TODD (voice-over): And there's still the issue of skyrocketing tuitions. The total cost of going to college now averages over $35,000 a year, closer to $55,000 a year at a private university, according to the Education Data Initiative.
SINGLETARY: I'm not sure that it is going to help the root cause, which is college costs too much.
TODD: And Michelle Singletary worries this new loan forgiveness program won't make colleges rethink their tuition hikes. She worries it will be just the opposite. If this program becomes popular, more people will rush to take out loans and colleges will continue to charge whatever they want -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Advocates for student debt cancellation argue loan forgiveness would help narrow the racial wealth gap because Black students are more likely to take on student debt, borrow larger amounts and take longer paying them off than their white peers.
But a model from the Urban Institute finds that, under President Biden's plan, 62 percent of the cancelled student loan dollars will go to white borrowers and just 25 percent go to Black borrowers.
This as the Brookings Institution estimates that, on average, Black college graduates owe more than $52,000 in student debt compared to white college graduates who owe $28,000.
[05:35:00]
BRUNHUBER: The average Asian borrower owes about $25,000 and Hispanic borrowers average about $30,000 in student debt.
Despite the disparity, president of the NAACP told CNN he commends President Biden for taking steps to help some of those most in need. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DERRICK JOHNSON, NAACP PRESIDENT: He's done a targeted approach, identifying individuals who are Pell grant recipients, the most neediest (sic) in our society and put a means test on top of it, something that we oppose.
But it makes sense because now we're talking about teachers. We're talking about federal employees. We're talking about state and municipal employees, individuals who make sure that our economy grow, that maintain the necessary services for our citizens and who really make democracy work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator, joins me from Cleveland, Ohio; she's also the cochair of Bernie Sanders' 2020 presidential campaign.
Thank you so much for being here with us. So we just ran through some of the disparities between white students and Black students.
Why is there such a big gap?
NINA TURNER, FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: Well, the gap is structural in nature. It comes from decades and decades of public policy.
And as difficult and sad as the notion that public policy in this country has been set up in a way to disadvantage particularly African Americans but other people of color, the working class, the silver lining is that that structural inequity can be changed.
And it should be changed. The whole notion -- and listen, the $10,000 worth of forgiveness that President Biden just recently announced is a great start. But it is not the end. It's the floor, it's not the ceiling.
And even as we know, I mean, the stats that you just displayed, the average debt for African Americans, particularly African American women, $52,000; the average white student between $8,000 and $12,000, that $10,000 hardly meets the need. So it is structural in nature. And it needs to be changed.
BRUNHUBER: So this is a small step but it is a step nonetheless.
How far will this new program help, do you think?
TURNER: It helps somewhat. It's means tested. That means that you're leaving a whole bunch of people out. And it should be canceling student debt for all so that nobody is left out, so that no one feels as though they did not get the relief that they deserve.
It is hurting working class and working poor. We know many students who start college don't even finish. So when you have people like the GOP using the working class, the truck driver, the farmer, assuming that a truck driver and a farmer did not go to college, a lot of those people go to college. A lot of their children go to college.
Why?
Because they're trying to obtain the American dream. And that is being doused because this debt is so -- you just can't keep up. I've heard stories of people paying on this debt over and over and over again and they can't catch up because the interest rates.
People owe more -- a lot of people owe more because of the interest rates than when they -- than what they borrowed. So the structure in this country needs to be changed and it can be changed. And not only --
(CROSSTALK)
BRUNHUBER: Let me just jump in because you talked about the Republicans' response to this. There are plenty of folks out there, not just Republicans, who said, listen, I paid off my student loans.
Why should these guys get a freebie and perhaps cynically just before midterms?
Mitch McConnell called this a slap in the face for every family who sacrificed to save for college, every graduate who paid their debt. And there's also the argument that you sort of talked about, people who actually didn't go to college there.
They're now paying with their taxes for student loans they never got.
So what do you say to that?
TURNER: Taxes are not going up over this. So it is a straight-up lie for the Republicans to be out there talking about tax dollars are going up. That's number one.
Number two, this us versus them is the problem. In the United States of America, we pay for K through 12 education. So for example, my son is no longer in high school. But guess what, my property taxes still go to pay for the education of somebody else's child.
Why?
Because it is indeed a public good. So we need a total paradigm shift in this country to go from pre-K to college as a public good, as a social right.
And lastly, for senator Mitch McConnell, I didn't hear all of this bravado when it came to the PPP loans being relieved. I didn't hear all of this bravado when it came to the Trump tax cuts that went overwhelming to the wealthiest people of this country, to the tune of $1.9 trillion.
We have an opportunity to give relief to 45 million people and their family and their closest friends.
[05:40:00] TURNER: Why wouldn't we make that kind of investment?
So that divide and conquer tactic the GOP is using, I'm hoping that the American people is not -- will not buy into it because it's not us versus them. We are them. And it is all of us.
BRUNHUBER: So you say, you know, this doesn't go far enough. You've been calling for all student debt to be cancelled here. But many Democrats say, you know, one-time debt cancellation doesn't solve the underlying problem, which is what you've been saying as well.
What do you think concretely can be done realistically to address that?
TURNER: And the people saying that are absolutely right. So it's a combination of things. Multiple things can be true at the same time.
While we cancel student debt, we must change the system by which people pay for higher education in this country. So part of that is making public colleges and universities tuition free so that we, the next generation, is not faced with this suffocating debt.
That is, in fact, the answer. Both of those things at the same time will give so much relief. And because our economy is 70 percent consumer economy in the United States of America, given that relief will trigger people to have more disposable income, which will feed into the economy and which will lift businesses in this country.
It could -- it will also close the racial wealth gap, Kim, in a way that has not been done in this country ever. We have a stagnant, a -- we have a severe racial wealth gap. The Black-white racial wealth gap is severe in the United States of America.
Canceling that student debt, all of it, not just $10,000, will go a long way in shrinking that wealth gap, so we're looking at a remedy that has both a class component and a caste component. In other words, a working class component and also a race component to it, especially for the African American community.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. It's such a huge issue but we'll have to leave it there. Thank you for your insights.
TURNER: Thanks for having me, Kim.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER (voice-over): No shortage of extreme weather lately. Mississippi included where officials are urging Jackson residents to get ready for more flooding.
Derek.
DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): Well, with all the rain that the Gulf Coast states got this week, that water has to go somewhere. The potential for flooding exists through the weekend and into early next week, with additional rainfall in the forecast. Plus, I'm monitoring formidable tropical activity across the Atlantic
basin. I'll highlight these in detail coming up after the break. Stick around.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:45:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: Powerful storms ripped through parts of Western Massachusetts Friday, bringing heavy rain and damaging winds. In the town of East Hampton, strong gusts knocked down multiple trees and power lines. Authorities say there were no reports of injuries.
The risk for severe weather continues for other parts of New England, including Boston and Bridgeport, Connecticut.
And Mississippi officials are urging some Jackson residents to get ready to leave ahead of more heavy rain and flooding. The National Weather Service says the Pearl River, which runs through the heart of Jackson, is expected to crest at 36 feet Tuesday, well above flood stage.
Jackson's mayor says those in flood-prone areas should be ready to evacuate within 48 hours.
(WEATHER REPORT)
BRUNHUBER: Now to Pakistan, where severe rains and floods have killed more than 900 people, affecting at least 33 million and left thousands homeless. Pakistan's minister for climate change called the floods unprecedented and the worst humanitarian disaster of this decade.
Pakistan says it is sending in the army to assist with relief and rescue operations. Pakistan armed forces say the troops are helping people find shelter and offering medical assistance to those affected by the floods.
U.S. space exploration takes another giant leap on a new mission to fly to the moon and beyond. We'll have a report after the break. Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: The U.S. is once again going on a mission to the moon. Have a look. This is a look here at the Artemis rocket at the Kennedy Space Center. It comes as modern-day space exploration is increasingly privatized. Kristin Fisher takes us inside the mission.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE & DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: It has been such a long time since NASA has had one of its own rockets designed to carry astronauts into space. It's been 11 years since the last space shuttle launch; 50 years since the last launch of the Apollo program.
But now Apollo's mythological twin sister, Artemis, is sitting at the Kennedy Space Center days away from making its first flight. Part of the reason NASA wants to go back to the moon is because, this time around, they want to leave a lot more than just flags and footprints. Here is NASA administrator, Bill Nelson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Fifty years ago, we went to the moon for a day, a few hours, three days max. Now we are going back to the moon to stay, to live, to learn, to build.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FISHER: When he says "build," he is referring to building lunar bases on the moon. Part of the reason that NASA and United States want to do that is because China has plans to do that, too.
[05:55:00]
FISHER: But first the Artemis rocket has to pass this critical test flight. It will launch Monday morning. If all goes to plan, the rocket will separate from the capsule. The capsule will then head to the moon on its own. It will orbit the moon for about 2.5 weeks, at times getting within 60 miles from the surface.
Then it will return to Earth, test out the all-important heat shield before splashing down in the Pacific Ocean. The reason the heat shield is so important is because it's designed to protect astronauts, who will be inside that capsule hopefully on future flights.
If all goes well, those first astronauts will be on Artemis II. That will likely be in 2024. It will orbit the moon and then the big one, Artemis III, that's when NASA intends to return American astronauts to the moon. This time they want to land the first woman and the first person of color -- Kristin Fisher, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: All right. And before we go, Oscar Meyer hot dogs have become cold dogs. The company has frozen flavored pops that even include a mustard swirl.
Oh, my gosh. It supposedly takes refreshing and smoky with umami notes. The company credits Instagram fans for the cool idea. It costs around 2 bucks but you have to travel to select pop bar locations in New York, Southern California or here in Georgia. We are lucky to get the frozen wiener Popsicle. A phrase I never expected to ever say on the air. All right. That wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. For viewers in North America, "NEW DAY" is next. For the rest of the world, it's "Mission Ahead."
