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IAEA: Shelling Hit Near Nuclear Reactor Buildings; Putin Offers Financial Benefits for Arriving Ukrainians; Artemis I Set to Launch in Hours; Pakistan Calls for Global Aid as Floods Impact Millions; At Least 32 Killed as Rival Militias Battle in Tripoli. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired August 29, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: Hello and welcome. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong, and ahead right here on CNN NEWSROOM, shelling near Europe's largest nuclear power plant is heightening concerns about the risk of a potential accident. And now, some residents in Ukraine are being given anti-radiation pills.

[00:00:43]

The countdown is on. NASA's historic mission to the Moon is just hours away. A big step toward the future of space exploration.

And a humanitarian disaster is unfolding in Pakistan, where deadly monsoon rains and floods are impacting millions of people.

And we begin in Ukraine, where fears of a nuclear catastrophe are growing larger by the day, as fighting continues around Europe's largest nuclear facility.

On Sunday, Russian and Ukrainian officials reported more shelling in a town about five kilometers from the Zaporizhzhia plant, both sides blaming each other for the strikes. A Russia-installed official says at least nine people were wounded.

It's the latest sign that fighting around the plant is not slowing, despite dire warnings from world leaders and international experts.

In a country still haunted by the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, those threats feel all too real. Authorities in a nearby city have even started handing out iodine pills, which can help protect against some effects of radiation.

This, as the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog prepares for a critical safety mission. The team of experts expected to visit the Russian-held plant in the next few days. We are also learning just how dangerously close some shelling has come to critical areas of the plant.

CNN's Sam Kiley is in Zaporizhzhia with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The International Atomic Energy Agency has now officially confirmed that a building inside the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant has been hit by shelling. They say that this occurred in the last few days, that it was what

they call a special building, possibly a building for water pumping, or maintenance. But the point is that was 100 meters, 100 yards away from the -- one of the reactors. And that is the issue that is really going to raise concerns, internationally, even higher, if that were humanly possible.

Now, here in Zaporizhzhia, the authorities, in reaction to the general threat against the nuclear power station, which is only 20 miles away from the city, the authorities are beginning to hand out iodine tablets, as a prophylactic against the worst effects of radiation, radiation sickness.

And also, the Ukrainian energy, atomic energy authority has put out a statement, effectively warning the Russians that if there were a disaster in that power plant, certainly at the beginning of this week, the meteorological signs are that the wind would blow the resulting radioactive fallout into Russian territory, that it would literally cause blowback against the Russians. Clearly, signaling to the Kremlin that any kind of danger that would affect the Russians as much as Ukraine.

And all of this against the backdrop of continuing shelling right across this extended frontline and indeed, in the last 48 hours, a number of people being killed in a village not very far from Zaporizhzhia.

Sam Kiley, CNN, in Zaporizhzhia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: And to the East, in Ukraine's embattled Donetsk region, two towns have come under shelling from Russia, as Ukraine fires back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSIONS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: Those rockets being fired by Ukrainian soldiers in a region that has seen intense fighting.

Early on Sunday, Russia targeted the towns of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. Now, the head of the Donetsk region military administration said that high-rise and residential buildings were damaged in both towns. So far, there have been no reports on casualties.

Ukraine has been urging residents to evacuate the Donetsk region, as Russian forces have been keeping up pressure in their push to gain more territory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The proud and glorious Ukrainian Donetsk is humiliated and robbed by Russian occupation. Russia brought the most terrible think there, total disregard for the value of any life; total disrespect for anyone. The invaders brought degradation and death. And they believed that they are there forever. But they are not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:05:07]

STOUT: Meanwhile, President Vladimir Putin has signed a pair of executive orders, providing financial benefits for Ukrainians who have entered Russia's Russia since the war began.

Now, the first order, according to the Kremlin, allow citizens of Ukraine, Donetsk, and Luhansk People's Republic to live and work in Russia without a work permit. But they have to meet certain requirements, like passing a drug test, and obtaining a medical certificate.

The second order provides a monthly pension of 10,000 rubles to citizens who have been forced to leave Ukraine since February the 18th. It also includes pensions for those who are physically challenged and a onetime payment to pregnant Ukrainians now living in Russia.

Masha Gessen is a staff writer at "The New Yorker." They join us now. Masha, thank you for joining us here on the program. Vladimir Putin is now offering incentives to Ukrainians to come to Russia and to stay there. Why's he doing this?

MASHA GESSEN, STAFF WRITER, "THE NEW YORKER": They say that he's offering incentives. I think it's a measure that is required to legalize, after a fashion, the staggering number of people who have been, with some measure of force, some measure of force in all cases, transferred from Ukraine to Russia.

So to explain what's been going on, basically, in the territories that Russia occupies, it tries everything it can to remove Ukrainians to the Russian side of the front line.

In fact, this happens before the occupation. As Russian troops advanced, they offer buses and safe-passage corridors to, first, the Donbas, the Russian-occupied parts of the Donbas, and then, into Russia proper.

And they do not allow safe passage to the unoccupied areas of Ukraine, and possibly, as many people want to do, for the West, for Western Ukraine or to central and Western Europe.

Now, why is Russia doing that? I think for a couple of reasons. One is to make sure that there are no Ukrainians who are trying to lay claim to the lands that Russia is occupying, right? So, they don't want people to be staying in places like Mariupol, or Kherson, or places, or other cities that Russia plans to occupy, because this is a colonization project. By the time it comes to negotiating about occupied territories, Russia

wants to make sure that it has colonized them fully, and that the people living there are Russian-born, Russian citizens. So it doesn't want to Ukrainians in other parts of Ukraine or in other parts of Europe to be asking to return to those occupied territories.

STOUT: Got it, so the business part --

GESSEN: This is also serving a propaganda purpose in Russia.

STOUT: Financial incentives are being used here to tie into Russia's economy, and it's contracting. It's in a downturn. It's only expected to deepen. Among Ukrainians who are being given this offer, why do they even consider it?

GESSEN: Because they have no choice, because they have been forcibly transferred, because it is extremely difficult for them to try to get out of Russia and to Western Europe, where they might be able to seek asylum. And it is actually practically impossible for them to get out of Russia and return to their own country, Ukraine.

They're forcibly displaced people. Calling this an incentive is buying into Kremlin propaganda. It's a legalization project for a war crime.

STOUT: And for the Ukrainians who are already in Russia, a huge amount of people from Russian-held areas of Ukraine have been deported, have been moved into Russia since the start of the war. Perhaps some out of their own volition but many, many others forced to move.

Again, Zelenskyy has called these deportations a heinous war crime. What will be the fate of Ukrainians who were forcibly deported?

GESSEN: Well, it depends on what the world does to help Ukraine fight this unprovoked war of Russian aggression. If Ukraine gets enough aid to win this war, then I hope that the people who are being held hostage by Russia are liberated and can return home, and that the world will help them rebuild their cities and towns.

If the world fails Ukraine, then the world becomes an accomplice in this war crime, that by the Russians' own count, has affected nearly 4 million people to date.

STOUT: Masha Gessen, thank you for joining us.

GESSEN: Thank you.

STOUT: Outgoing British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is blaming Russian President Vladimir Putin for the global energy crisis that is affecting many countries, including the U.K.

[00:10:07]

In a Sunday op-ed for a British newspaper, he blamed Putin for skyrocketing energy bills, and said the Russian leader wants European countries like the U.K. to buckle, remove sanctions, and beg for Russian oil and gas. He also tweeted this, quote, "We must not give in to Putin's

aggression," unquote. "The next few months will be tough, but Ukrainian and British people can win," he goes on to say.

Now, meanwhile, Austria's chancellor is urging other European nations deployment a cap on skyrocketing energy prices. They come as natural gas prices continue to soar in Europe since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. And still ahead, NASA is just a few hours away from its first big test for sending humans back to the Moon. We'll have the preview of the Artemis I mission and the launch site in Florida.

Plus, Brazil's court president and former president face off in the first debate of the general campaign season. We've got a live report, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STOUT: Welcome back. And we're just hours away from the scheduled launch window for the Artemis I rocket. Let's bring up live pictures of the launch pad at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

This unmanned mission to the Moon is the first of several in the years ahead for the U.S. space agency, NASA. And eventually, NASA's goal here is to send astronauts back to the lunar surface, for the first time since Apollo 17 in 1972. And ultimately, NASA hopes to Sunday land the first humans on Mars.

And although there's no crew for this test fight, there are several objectives that NASA hopes to accomplish before sending humans back to the Moon and beyond.

CNN's Rachel Crane has this preview of the mission.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RACHEL CRANE, CNN INNOVATION AND SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, weather is 80 percent favorable for a launch. And this launch window opens at 8:33 a.m. Eastern. And it's a two-hour launch window.

So, so far, Mother Nature is on our side, but folks on just keeping an eye on the weather, when it comes to this launch.

That's because this record behind me has never flown before. And several rehearsals of the SLS launch didn't go exactly as planned. Three wet dress rehearsals, as they're referred to, had many issues involving valves and leaks.

As I've said, this vehicle has never flown before. And it's a really important part of a NASA's Artemis program, that this uncrewed test flight is a success.

That's because NASA's several major objectives here. They need to test the heat shield of the Orion spacecraft before they put crew on board. They need to make sure, as they're putting up this brand-new rocket, it actually functions as planned.

They also need to go through retrieval of the Orion spacecraft. If this -- if this launch is successful, it will be a 42-day mission. And the Orion spacecraft will splash down in the Pacific, so they need to go and retrieve that spacecraft. There are some avionics on board that NASA is hoping to use on Artemis II.

[00:15:18]

Now, that will be the first crewed mission of the Artemis program. NASA hopes to achieve that next year. And hopefully, put humans once again on the Moon, the first woman, and the first person of color in 2025.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: Daniel Dumbacher is executive director of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. He was previously a deputy associate administrator at NASA, and he joins us now.

Thank you for joining us here at CNN. And I have to admit this first. As a child of the 'so, I remember watching, with tremendous excitement, space shuttle launches on TV. So I can't help but wonder, will this test launch help bring back, you know, the thrill, the excitement of space exploration, as we inch closer to going back to the Moon?

DANIEL DUMBACHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF AERONAUTICS AND ASTRONAUTICS: Well, Kristie, Artemis I ought to do more then bring back the memories of the shuttle, because this launch vehicle that we're launching, that NASA is hopefully launching tomorrow is going to actually be more than double the launch thrust that we saw with shuttles.

So it will be loud. It will get off the pad quick, and it will be quite a sight. We're all looking forward to it.

STOUT: Now, you oversaw the initial development of the space launch system, or SLS, during your time at NASA. It has been a very expensive program. And even though there are no humans on board, it is not without risks. So just how high are the stakes with today's launch?

DUMBACHER: Well, as with any test flight, we are -- we are here to learn. We want to make sure that we -- that the systems are prepared and ready for the next mission, with humans and the crew that we're going to take off to the Moon.

And so, this test flight, yes, it has a lot of risks to it, but that's why we do it as a test flight. That's why we do it -- that's why NASA does it without anybody on board, so that we learn and make things and improve things for the safety of the crew.

One thing I can say is there has been lots of ground testing done. There's even been an exploration flight test one for the Orion crew several years ago, so for the Orion capsule module. And -- and we know how things work in those environments.

And tomorrow, we start -- hopefully tomorrow, we start the mission to go off and test it out over the next six weeks to make sure that we're ready to take the next step with -- with astronauts and crew.

STOUT: And assuming that you're ready to take the next step, that today's launch is a success, what are the chances that the SLS, which is not reasonable, will soon be outmoded, would be outclassed by private rockets. Because, you know, Elon Musk has shown the world how to get reusable rockets into space at a fraction of the cost.

DUMBACHER: Well, and that's the advantage of -- of the -- of our industrial capability, is to go take those things like launch capability and to get things more and more efficient, based on -- and drive into the marketplace.

SLS, what we have with the space launch system in Artemis I, is unique in that we are re-establishing the launch capability that existed at the end of the Apollo program. We are getting that reestablished, so that this nation and all of our allies have the ability to put large volumes, large masses, large objects in space that we haven't had since the early 1970s.

And so this capability is key, and as we go through this, as commercial capabilities come online, I'm sure NASA will work, take advantage of it as appropriate.

But this capability that we're seeing tested tomorrow, in the first mission of Artemis I, is getting us that step we need to reestablish that capability that we've set aside many years ago.

STOUT: As you say, reestablishing that capability of the United States, and its allies. And I have to ask you about China. To what degree is this launch about the rivalry with China and securing an early lead in the race back to the Moon?

DUMBACHER: Well, this is -- we're not in a competition with China right now, like we were the Soviets back in the beginning of the space age.

But China has made it clear, with their space station work that they're building, their missions to the Moon, that they are serious about space exploration. And it's time that this country continue its endeavors, continue pushing forward, and continue that capability to be the leader in space that we have been over the decades. And we want to continue this, and Artemis I is a step in that direction.

[00:20:11]

STOUT: Well, Daniel Dumbacher, I understand you'll be attending the big launch later today, or Monday, your time. Enjoy the moment and best of luck.

DUMBACHER: Thank you. Looking forward to it. It's going to be a great day.

STOUT: Now the first presidential debate of Brazil's general election campaign took place in Sao Paulo on Sunday night. The contest was organized by a consortium of Brazilian media outlets, and every candidate participated.

But all eyes were on the current president, Jair Bolsonaro, and former president, Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, who is seeking to return to his old job.

They've got just over a month to campaign. Election day is set for October the 2nd.

So, how could this first presidential debate shape the race in Brazil? Our Stefano Pozzebon joins us now, live from Bogota, Colombia.

And Stefano, you've got Bolsonaro, Lula on the stage together with the other candidates, all eyes on them. They traded jabs in this debate, but who came out on top?

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, Kristie. Well, it's fair to say that, actually, neither of the two of them came out on top. Probably the most memorable moments came from Simone Tebet, a senator who is not polling among the highest. She's not one of the leading contenders in this race, but she could speak highly about her role in the management of the pandemic and was applauded and well-regarded by most analysts looking at the debate.

Bolsonaro, instead, stole if you want, stole the light, stole -- made the headlines with a cheap and sexist remark at a journalist who asked him a question about the distribution of anti-COVID vaccines during his presidency.

While Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, the left-wing former president, who is leading the race and is currently the front runner ahead of that historic election on October 2, defended his record of government in the years between 2003 and 2010, when he says standards of -- living standards improved for millions of Brazilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS INACIO LULA DA SILVA, FORMER BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): You say you didn't see those changes I'm talking of, well, your driver saw them. Your gardener saw them. Your cleaning lady saw them. Go ask her. She saw this country doing better. She saw her child could enter a university.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: So to sum it up, Kristie, it was quite a surreal moment, having a former president and a current president, who really represented two different visions for Brazil, both defending their record. Bolsonaro defending his management -- or actually, mismanagement -- of the COVID-19 pandemic, and Lula, the economic growth of those years, almost now -- almost 20 years back -- Kristie.

STOUT: Yes. Both of the leading candidates offering two radically different visions of what should come next for Brazil.

POZZEBON: Yes.

STOUT: Stefano Pozzebon, reporting live for us. Thank you so much.

Millions of people in Pakistan are being affected by deadly flooding. What we're learning about the scope and sheer scale of the devastation is next.

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[00:25:54]

STOUT: Welcome back to our viewers all around the world. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong.

The death toll continues to rise in Pakistan, where monsoon rains and flooding have killed more than 1,000 people, including more than 350 children.

The Pakistani army is helping with relief and rescue operations as the government calls for international aid. CNN's Sophia Saifi has more on the widespread devastation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Families scramble on dry ground to meet a waiting rescue helicopter. It's just one of many rescue missions taking place in Pakistan, parts of which have been deluged by floods, after weeks of unprecedented monsoon rains.

The Pakistani government says more than 30 million people across the country have been impacted by the floods. The operations by air, critical to transporting the stranded to relief centers and also dropping supplies to areas not accessible by boat or roads.

With Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif joining the effort over the weekend. The government says it needs international help to deal with the scope of the disaster.

Heavy rain and flooding have killed more than 1,000 people since mid- June, the misery felt all around the country.

In the North, tens of thousands of people were forced to evacuate this weekend after flash floods caused a river to rise, wiping out a critical bridge and cutting off roads.

And there are fears the rushing waters could wipe away more structures, even nearby villages. Many rivers in the region have already done so.

These families camped by the side of the road, and wondering where they will go next, say they narrowly escaped with their lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): First, the water level rose a little, and we brought the goods to the rooftop. We could not bring the household with us. We came out on the highway with our lives, children and cattle. Late night, the water level had risen until it was knee-deep.

SAIFI (voice-over): In Southeast Pakistan, many people are just trying to salvage what they can, after losing their homes to the floods.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are in dire straits. We are exhausted of moving our belongings here and there. Our homes and village drowned in the water. Most of the livestock died. We have suffered a huge loss.

SAIFI (voice-over): Those lucky enough to reach a relief center, which have been set up across the country, can get a meal and a bed. But with the flooding so widespread, Pakistan faces enormous challenges ahead.

Sindh province alone, which was badly hit by the flooding, has asked for a million tents to help with the displaced.

Sophia Saifi, CNN, Karachi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: The footage is just heartbreaking to watch. CNN's Anna Coren is tracking the Pakistan floods from here in Hong Kong. She joins us now live.

And Anna, flash floods washing away crops, even entire villages. What more have you learned?

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's extraordinary, isn't it, the images that we just saw from Sophia's package.

But Kristie, as we know, Pakistan is certainly accustomed to monsoonal rains and flooding every single summer, but nothing of this scale, at least in recent memory. The worst floods were back in 2010, when more than 2,000 people lost their lives.

Well, the death toll from these floods is around 1,000, more than 1,000. As you say, more than 350 children among that death toll. And, you know, as far as authorities are concerned, that death toll could very well rise.

Pakistan is going through its eighth monsoonal cycle. It normally has about three or four each summer. So you're talking about double the amount of water.

And I want to show you some satellite images that have come to us. The Indus River, it basically runs the length of Pakistan. And you can see these -- these communities, before and after. Absolutely submerged by the water that has now just spread across the country.

[00:30:17]

Hundreds of thousands of homes destroyed. As we saw, roads and bridges washed away. You know, farming fields inundated with water. And then there are these communities that have been cut off and stranded. The military have been mobilized. They are flying the helicopters in to evacuate people.

The National Disaster Management Agency -- Authority, I should say -- has the herculean task of providing, obviously, not just rescue but -- but relief. You know, emergency accommodation, tents, food, medical assistance.

But as we saw from those images, you were talking about millions of people who have been displaced and millions of people who are now homeless.

The Pakistani foreign minister, Kristie, he is pleading for international assistance. I mean, the government is completely overwhelmed. That is extremely clear. He's -- he's asking for agencies, the IMF donors to come to their aid.

Let's have a listen to what foreign minister Bhutto Zardari had to say a bit earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BHUTTO ZARDARI, PAKISTAN FOREIGN MINISTER: They're absolutely devastating. I haven't seen anything -- any destruction or devastation of this scale. I find it very difficult to put into words the phraseologies that we're used to, whether it's monsoon rains Their flooding doesn't quite seem to encapsulate the ongoing devastation and disaster that we're still witnessing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Now, the government is blaming this squarely on climate change. They have a designated minister, Kristie. Her name is Sherry Rehman. And she has, you know, made some pretty bold statements. She has said, quote, "This is a climate-induced humanitarian disaster of epic proportions."

She admits that the government and the rescue and relief operation are completely overwhelmed, and said, we need all the help that we can get, Kristie.

STOUT: Yes, total devastation across Pakistan, and it's been recognized inside the country's part of a greater global crisis. Anna Coren, we thank you for your reporting.

Now, conflict between rival militias is fueling some of Libya's worst fighting in years. The country's health ministry says at least 32 people were killed in clashes in Tripoli over the weekend.

And the International Rescue Committee says it had to suspend some of its humanitarian services for migrants and refugees, due to the violence.

CNN's Nada Bashir has more from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, these are some of the worst clashes Libya's capital has seen in at least the last two years. And there are real concerns that this could push the country back into a state of sustained conflict.

This latest round of violence comes on the back of a monthlong political standoff between two rival factions.

In the capital, Tripoli, you have the U.N.-backed and internationally recognized government of national unity, led by prime minister Abdul Hamid Dbeibeh.

And in the East, you have a rival administration, which has, essentially, appointed its own prime minister, Fathi Bashagha.

Now, tensions between these two factions have been simmering for months now. Back in May, Bashagha and has allied forces launched a failed attempt to seize control of Tripoli. And over the last few weeks, we've seen Eastern forces mobilizing around the capital.

But over the weekend, those tensions really came to a head, with forces allied to Fathi Bashagha, once again attempting to seize control of territory in Tripoli, entering the capital from several directions, using small arms fire, and heavy machine guns, and even mortars in central areas around the city.

But while there is real consent this could push the country into further political turmoil, these latest clashes have already had devastating consequences.

At least 30 people were killed and more than 150 people wounded in the fighting, according to the health ministry. The U.N. has called for an immediate end to the violence and a return to political dialogue.

We also heard from the GNU leader, Abdul Hamid Dbeibeh, speaking on Saturday night to his allied fighters in the capital. He commended them for, in his words, defending the city, and he paid his respects to those who have lost their lives, stressing the GNU remains committed to democratic elections.

But he also issued a stark warning to members of the opposition, saying the time for political coups is long gone. And also, warning that any actors looking to take control of the country by undemocratic means would meet his fighters in the field.

Nada Bashir, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: Joining me now is Emadeddin Badi. He is a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council. Thank you for joining us here on CNN NEWSROOM.

[00:35:03]

A long-simmering power struggle is flaring up in Libya. What led to the current outburst in violence, the violence we witnessed in Tripoli over the weekend?

EMADEDDIN BADI, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: This is, by and large, the result of the presence of the two governments and the international ambiguity, let's say, towards which is legitimate. Since March, that has fostered an ecosystem of competition, which has, by and large, resulted in these clashes.

The ambiguity with the policy that was reflected, of sharp differences over Libya, internationally, with Egypt, I would say, Russia, and ironically France, actually, the main backer of the parallel government -- parallel government that was set up by the rival administration in Eastern Libya.

STOUT: We have parallel governments with international backers. We have a violent power struggle between Libya's interim prime minister, Dbeibeh, of the U.N.-backed GNU, and the rival prime minister, Bashagha. Can these two parallel governments reach a political resolution?

BADI: It would be very difficult for these two now to actually reach a political resolution, unfortunately. It is hardly reflective of a lot of these domestic, let's say, factions agreed (ph).

But at the same time, it also -- also is reflective of the continuous international differences over Libya. I think there are several countries that still have a vested interest in backing a rival administration, whether this administration or coalition be under Fathi Bashagha or not.

And the ingredients, let's say, for further violence, are unfortunately, still there in Libya at the moment.

STOUT: You have these foreign influences, and you also have the very influential militias inside Libya. Will the political future of Libya be determined, you know, not by the people, or any sort of political process, but by the strongest militias, the strongest armed cartels, and its favored head of state?

BADI: I think the past, let's say, four or five years have proven that none of the armed factions in Libya can singularly dominate the entirety of the country.

Unfortunately, I think that things go way beyond, then, just exclusively, the domestic scene. The main solution at the moment for Libya to stabilize would actually be to harmonize both European policy towards Libya, so bridging differences between and within Europe. And also, aligning that with U.S. policy towards Libya.

Let's not forget that a lot of the international -- international differences over Libya are very important in fueling the dynamics in the country. And this is also partly a proxy -- a proxy conflict, where domestic factions benefit from lavish funding from foreign backers, benefit from weapons smuggled inside the country, and also, diplomatically benefit from a lot of cover, let's say, whether it be at the level of the U.N. Security Council, within the European Union, or even bilaterally, within both global and regional powers. STOUT: International policy needs to come together, and hanging in the

balance, as you have the fate of $7 billion people, amid a time of deep suffering with the drought and power outages, et cetera. You talked about a need to harmonize international policy.

Is that taking place? Is enough being done on the international stage to stabilize Libya?

BADI: I think, ironically, the latest bout of violence could be viewed as an opportunity, in terms of aligning both the U.S. position with the European one. There are several vehicles that could be used to then channel that into a coherent and milestone-based process that would culminate in elections in Libya, free, fair and democratic elections in the country.

However, I think that before that, the work that needs to be done, it needs to be done internationally. The Libyan people have already spoken. They want those free and fair elections. And it's not good enough to nearly pander, I would say, to the desires of either the domestic Libyan elites, or their foreign backers, or the authoritarian countries that don't want to see elections held in Libya.

We need those, and we need those desperately. And it's -- but it's now time to push for that. And the latest fashions are to be viewed as an opportunity rather than as a setback.

STOUT: Absolutely. Emadeddin Badi, thank you so much for joining us and for untangling the crisis in Libya.

BADI: Thank you.

STOUT: CNN NEWSROOM continues after this quick break.

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STOUT: Welcome back.

Now, the last known member of an uncontacted indigenous group in Brazil has died. This is according to Brazilian officials. And this is the last footage taken of the man, only known as the man in the hole, back in 2018.

He lived in complete isolation for nearly 30 years in the Amazon rain forest, after his tribe was wiped out by outsiders wanting to claim their land.

Officials believe he died of natural causes, something forensic experts hope to confirm.

In India, authorities have demolished two high-rise apartment buildings, after a court ruled that they were built illegally. And crowds watched from nearby rooftops as the towers were taken down by controlled explosions. India's supreme court ordered the demolition after a long legal battle

determined the towers violated several regulations, as well as fire safety rules.

The buildings were knocked down on Sunday outside New Delhi. and demolitions like this are rare in India, despite widespread illegal construction.

Now, did you ever wonder if that old baseball card collection you had as a kid would ever be worth anything?

Well, this baseball card from New York Yankees legend Mickey Mantle's rookie season in 1952, it sold for a record $12.6 million. It is now the most expensive piece of sports memorabilia in history.

The card was last sold in 1991 for $50,000 before selling at a 25,000 percent increase on Sunday. Wow!

Well, thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. Do stay with us. We've got WORLD SPORT coming up next.

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