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DOJ Files Photo Of Clearly Classified Docs Stored Among Trump Personal Items, Framed Magazine Covers; DOJ: Trump Team Moved & Hid Documents To "Obstruct" Probe; Jackson Mayor Optimistic Water Can Be Restored This Week. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 31, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:28]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of a brand new hour now on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

A blockbuster court filing from the Justice Department alleges that Donald Trump not only kept but concealed classified material at his Florida home. The DOJ offers a timeline of the many months the former president and his lawyers allegedly attempted to obstruct the FBI investigation into the mishandling of classified material. The filing reveals that more than 300 classified documents were found at Mar-A- Lago since Trump left office and not all of them in that unsecured storage room. The DOJ says three classified documents were found in Trump's desk drawer.

BLACKWELL: And as one former top FBI official put it, the new information obliterates claims that Trump and his lawyers had been cooperating and negotiating in good faith to return the records. The DOJ response raises the stakes for the courtroom tomorrow. A judge holds a hearing on whether to appoint the special master, the neutral third party to oversee the FBI's handling of the seized documents.

The Justice Department opposes it and says the special master is unnecessary and would significantly harm important governmental interest, including national security interests.

CAMEROTA: In the filing, the Justice Department also released this photo of some of the evidence found in the August search.

BLACKWELL: You see the documents here, that it's spread out on the floor by the FBI with some of the highest classification markings. Officials say these were kept in the container at Mar-A-Lago.

CAMEROTA: CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell joins us now. Josh, just break down what we're seeing in this photo, please.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's one thing to read what we've been reading in court filings about classified information at Mar-A- Lago, it's quite something else to actually see for ourselves. In this picture taken by the FBI, they laid some of these documents out, you see a ruler here for scale. Again, this is a typical evidence type photo.

But you see just a trove of classified information here. They also included a box of Time magazine covers. I think the point they're trying to show some of this classified information was commingled with other items. Now, just to walk you through what was found, we're talking about secret information and top secret information.

According to the U.S. Intelligence Community, secret information is that which could cause serious harm to national security if it is in the hands of someone without access. With top secret information, we're talking about grave damage to U.S. national security if that information were to get out to someone who didn't have a need-to-know.

Now, to show you what these documents are, this is what's called a cover sheet. It sits on top of intelligence reporting. It does two things. It tells the person holding the documents, what type of information it is. But it also shields that information for other - from other people who may not have a need-to-know.

There's one thing I really want to center on here, now, we don't know exactly what was in these records, what was behind these cover sheets, but we get a sense of the potential based on what's called a classification control. And just to show you what these documents potentially include, we're talking about human source information. These are spies that the CIA and FBI run overseas provide that sensitive information highly protected. There was also this listing of what's called special intelligence. This is information collected by the National Security Agency, think about wiretaps and signals, intercepts, again, highly classified.

But this here is really stunning, talent keyhole, which is not something that most people know about, the name itself. This refers to a highly classified U.S. government satellite program. Again, the type of information that was potentially here at Mar-A-Lago.

And one thing that's so fascinating is the Justice Department says that some of the FBI agents who were here on scene didn't even have access to this information. They had to be read in to additional compartments, additional programs, just to be able to see this evidence.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that we're not just getting a visual understanding of what was found there. We're also learning new details about the FBI and Justice Department investigation. I'll read you one quote here from this filing yesterday. It says, "The government also developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the storage room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government's investigation."

Two things I want to focus on here, developed evidence, that's lawyerly phrasing for someone who's talking to the FBI. They're getting some sense about how these documents were handled, which would be important to the investigation. And then lastly, the word obstruct. The Justice Department here signaling that this isn't sloppiness. You can't blame this on the movers, who took documents from the White House down to Mar-A-Lago. What they are alleging is that the Trump team actively worked to obstruct the investigation of the government.

[15:05:00]

Again, quite a claim. Trump, obviously, has denied all allegations but as we get more information here, as we get a sense of what was in these records, we see what they're laying out in this case that these documents that should not have been in a private residence and unsecured space were allegedly located at the president's Palm Beach residence.

BLACKWELL: Josh Campbell, thank you for all that context. It sets us up for this conversation now with Elliot Williams. He served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General and is now CNN Legal Analyst. Also with us Margaret Talev, Managing Editor of Axios and CNN Political Analyst.

Elliot, let me start with you. And that picture is remarkable, the details of the alleged evidence to conceal and remove and obstruct, we wouldn't have this if not for this filing for a special master and these additional like rolling reveals because of the dragging out from the Trump team. Is this evidence of a team that doesn't know the truth is incompetent or just thinks this is worth it?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What I think it is evidence of a Justice Department that's not fighting its battles and press releases. And fighting its battles, frankly, in court filings. If you notice, the Justice Department has said nothing publicly about this, but merely it's almost like a platitude when the Attorney General says we speak through our court filings. Well, he did.

And look, to Josh's point about those coverings on those sheets, those are alarming. He gave a beautiful explanation as to what those acronyms mean. The far more alarming fact buried in the document was that there were three classified documents found in a desk, anyone could have had access to them even assuming that the former president was entitled to the documents, which he wasn't. But even assuming that he was, think of all the people that might have come through staff at Mar-A-Lago who might have had access to that information and don't need to know.

So there are a lot of revelations there and it's a very well constructed document by the Justice Department.

CAMEROTA: But Elliot, can we just go one step further, which is, why did Donald Trump need those three classified documents in his desk drawer? That's where he makes phone calls from. He doesn't use email. He uses the phone. Why did he want those at his fingertips? The fact that they weren't in these sloppily stored boxes, they were moved to his desk drawer. I mean, does that tell you - does that speak to intentionality of something?

WILLIAMS: It can depend on how they got there, who put them there and why they put them there? And look, every one, every - of the various crimes that are talked about here depends on criminal intent, right, and was it willful, knowledgeable knowing and it's just going to depend on the statute. It may not be just the president and any individuals who assisted here, but it seems the Justice Department just reading this document on its face, they're building a criminal case against somebody.

BLACKWELL: Yes. My question was really about the Trump team in these filings if they think it's worth it to risk what's coming out every time there's this new filing from the DOJ. Margaret, let me come to you and it really now seems quaint that in the initial filing asking for this special master, that the Trump team lambasted the FBI, and they wrote this sentence: "To date, the government has failed to legitimize its historic decision to raid the home of a president who had been fully cooperative." That clearly, according to the DOJ's evidence, is not true at all.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Victor, I'm not an attorney or a former FBI investigator, but just as a layman, like let's go back three weeks and a couple of days to the day when the search was executed and kind of the instant reaction from defenders of the president and just a lot of Republicans who were like the public needs to understand what happened and demands an explanation like why did the FBI feel the need to do this.

This really answers that question and I think like a picture is worth a thousand words, that visual, you can't - if you tried it, you couldn't miss a bright yellow or bright red border with the markings 'secret' or 'top secret' or 'SCI'. And the procedure for this, and after months of requests to the Trump team to go through the documents to turn back anything that may have been overlooked, if you were thumbing through a box, you would see a bright yellow highlighted border or a bright red border, those cover pages aren't - like your 10-year-old could go through the boxes and find the cover pages.

And so I think that's obviously why those pictures ended up in evidence and why they're so valuable and kind of explaining to the public. You just need to visualize what's happening. You couldn't miss those cover pages if you tried and the fact that they were able to go in within a matter of hours and recover twice as many as had been turned over with apparent months of effort, it lends a lot of credence to the idea that they're developing some kind of an obstruction case against someone.

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But the question - one of the many questions is who, is it the former president or certainly there are people working around him and for him who presumably were tasked with going through and complying with the Justice Department's request and there are probably a lot of additional people in jeopardy because of this evidence that's now been entered into the court.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Elliot, 10 seconds, is the DOJ going to file charges?

WILLIAMS: Against somebody, I mean, I think the President of the United States, but even if it's for making false statements and citing those documents, attesting to things that ended up not being true, there's criminal liability here, possibly.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Elliot Williams, Margaret - Margaret, standby. Elliot, thank you very much.

Also, legal fallout from the FBI's Mar-A-Lago search may be affecting Donald Trump's timeline for announcing a 2024 presidential bid. He had been aiming for a launch on Labor Day weekend, we were told, but sources now tell CNN the former president is being advised to pump the brakes. CNN's Kristen Holmes is here with her latest reporting. Okay, so where does everything stand now?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn and Victor, this has certainly been an evolving timeline. First, it was July 4 and then it was Labor Day weekend. And now we are hearing that Trump is considering an announcement post the midterms.

Now, there are several reasons for this and one you noted is those legal issues. He is being told by advisers that he has to deal with his legal issues before he makes an announcement. They say that there are a lot of candidates that were handpicked, by the way, by Donald Trump who are performing weaker than anticipated particularly in those Senate races.

They say that if he does announce before the midterms that Democrats will weaponize his legal issues and then he'll be blamed for any potential Republican losses. And remember, it's not just the legal issues surrounding the search, it's FBI, Department of Justice, Fulton County, New York, et cetera, so that is one reason here.

Now, there is another reason why he's actually considering it this time around. Remember, for quite some time, there have been two sets of advisors, one saying announce immediately, the other one saying wait till after November. But now he really is considering it and we're told that's because he is happy the way Republicans have rallied around him after that FBI search.

You have to remember that part of the reason they wanted to do an early announcement was to clear the field in 2024. Essentially his aides and he believed to some extent the FBI's search did that. Trump has said in particular that his challengers or potential challengers in 2024 have supported him pointed out Ron DeSantis who Florida governor likely the most formidable opponent to Trump if they both run for president, compared the FBI's searched to banana republic tactics, so they're feeling a little bit more politically confident.

But one caveat here and this is always the caveat when it comes to Trump World, which is that this, of course, could change before November. He is the one who will ultimately make this decision.

BLACKWELL: All right. Kristen Holmes with the reporting, thank you.

Margaret Talev is back and joining us is Alice Stewart, CNN Political Commentator, former Communications Director for Republican senator, Ted Cruz.

Alice, let me start with you. In the days after the search, Trump was raising a million dollars a day, people were saying now is the time to go in. The party is rallying behind you. Do you believe that this rolling revelation of the search and the documents has changed the landscape?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Victor, Kristen was right in terms of a lot of people, Republicans, that were ready to turn their back on former President Trump are rallying behind him and they are supporting him and feel as though he is the victim in this case. I don't happen to agree with that synopsis of what is going on with him. But here's the thing, we can't support the candidate that can win a primary that's not going to win in the general election.

And look, I don't care about Donald Trump's legal troubles. I do care about the political troubles that he's causing his handpicked candidates. We're seeing in many of these key Senate races, these candidates are struggling because of their embracing of the election denials and their embrace of January 6 and we're seeing them scrubbing their websites, shifting their message and moderating to the middle because they understand that what might work for the base of the Republican Party and supporting Donald Trump is not a winning formula for a general election candidate.

So the more time we spend talking about Donald Trump and the frustrations of the past president and not the failures of the current president, we're losing time. We have 69 days between now and the general election. We need to be talking about the increasing inflation, increasing crime and the ongoing recession and not about the past president.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, I think that Kristen's reporting is very interesting, but since when does Donald Trump listen to conventional wisdom or listen to political advice? I'm just surprised that he would say, oh, okay, good idea. I won't announce until after the midterms. The Democrats are already using all of this against any Republican candidates as if they needed to.

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I mean they're also using abortion. Do you think that he is listening to advisers who say don't announce before midterms?

TALEV: I'm really struck by what we're not hearing in the public space right now, because in the opening days of the search, you couldn't look at Twitter or put on the TV and not see a Republican in leadership or in a prominent national position defending at least the idea of the president.

But that has changed over recent days and after the most recent DOJ filing, my colleague, Alayna Treene at Axios, has been reaching out across congressional leadership in the House and the Senate, she did hear back from Elise Stefanik whose team gave her a very detailed statement of the Russia hoax 2.0, Biden media conspiracy, like she's still defending Trump.

But Kevin McCarthy, no statement, Mitch McConnell, no statement, I heard back from another Republican aide who said, well, his boss doesn't have a statement because there's no news. Obviously, this is a huge news development. So I think there is a recalibration, a real consideration about not wanting to do damage to particularly some of these pivotal Senate races on which the control of the Senate is going to be won or lost. It's not a primary campaign anymore, it is the general election.

BLACKWELL: Alice, let me ask you a question, specifically, you're one of those prominent Republicans who right after the search defended the president. You said the day after the search that you accepted Donald Trump's word that he complied to some degree with federal authorities ...

STEWART: We need to make sure that they - to the degree they can over the next 69 days, distance themselves from him and start talking about the issues that the people are concerned with and that is inflation and crime.

CAMEROTA: Alice Stewart, Margaret Talev, thank you both.

STEWART: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: All right. Not enough water to drink in order to shower or even flush the toilets, residents of Jackson, Mississippi are now on day three of living in these conditions. One official say that the water could be restored that's next.

BLACKWELL: And CNN exclusive reporting, there's an increase of people using a tiny piece of plastic to turn a gun into essentially a machine gun. What's being done to stop it?

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BLACKWELL: The Mayor of Jackson, Mississippi says he is optimistic that water will be restored within the week. The capital city's main water treatment plant started failing on Monday. It's unable to maintain the amount of water pressure necessary for sanitation. Students are staying home, classes are virtual. A hospital cannot run the air conditioner and there's not enough water even to flush the toilets.

Take a look at this picture. Look up at the screen, this is what the water looks like. I mean, you wouldn't bathe in this water much less drinking. Joining me now is Rukia Lumumba. She is the executive director of the people's Advocacy Institute. She's also the sister of Jackson's Mayor, Chokwe Antar Lumumba. Thank you so much for being with me. What's coming out of your faucet now? Are you getting water? Is there pressure? What do you have access to?

RUKIA LUMUMBA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PEOPLE'S ADVOCACY INSTITUTE: Well, one, thank you for having me and for consistently lifting up what's happening here in Jackson. Right now in my household, I have a decent water pressure enough not to complain as I know that many residents across the city do not. I have absolutely experienced water looking like what you shown to viewers today and I've absolutely been without water.

This is not the first time that we've had water wells in Jackson. Last year in 2021, we had 225 days of boil water notices and had six weeks, nearly six weeks of being without water and it took the Governor three weeks to actually call for state of emergency back then.

BLACKWELL: We've had our reporter, Amara Walker, there at the water distribution site and that's great that there's no water there for people who can get to it. I think you understand where I'm going here. There are plenty of people who cannot drive in their car and wait an hour to get water or can't get to a grocery store.

[15:25:04]

On Sunday morning, we call them the sick and shut in, seniors, people who are disabled. What is the outreach from the city, from the state, from these organizations to go to people to take them water?

LUMUMBA: Yes. I mean, it's such a good questions. So one thing that I did want to highlight is that residents here in Jackson have been extremely patient and have worked collectively to take care of ourselves throughout every single water crisis that we've experienced this year and last year and many years passed.

And so we have a Mississippi Rapid Response Coalition that is led by the People's Advocacy Institute, but many more organizations, the Poor People's Campaign, One Voice Mississippi, the Immigrant Alliance for Justice and Equity, Alternate Routes, Mississippi MOVE, Operation Good, Mississippi Black Women's Roundtable, Strong Arms (ph), the Southern Poverty Law Center, I mean, over 30 partnering organizations across the city and the state that have come together to really respond during these times of crises to \Jackson's needs.

And this is paramount to understanding the people of Jackson, that throughout all of this, we haven't waited on the state to respond and to fix our problems. I mean, you go back to even 2013 when residents right here in Jackson said, we're tired of waiting for the state year after year asking for their intervention to help to fix this old plant.

Back in 2013, residents voted to actually tax themselves an additional 1 percent sales tax, so that we could actually see that money go directly to our water infrastructure needs. So it's been a long time that we've been dealing with this problem. And we've been responsible residents, we've been responsible people willing to take the matters into our own hands. But as year and year goes by, it's time that the state do what it's supposed to do and actually care for all of our - all of its residents and we're a part of that. We're part of that resident pool.

BLACKWELL: You're taxpayers and you're human, so you deserve clean and reliable water. Rukia Lumumba, thank you for your time. We, of course, will stay on this story that's happening in a Jackson. And if there are updates, I'll certainly bring it back. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Just incredible pictures there. Meanwhile, First Lady Jill Biden is taking on the nationwide teacher shortage. We have details on her plan next.

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