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Fight over Mar-a-Lago Documents; Glenn Gerstell is Interviewed about Trump Documents; Weekly Jobless Claims Fall; Williams Upsets World Number Two; Amy Bass is Interviewed about Serena Williams; U.N. Inspectors at Nuclear Plant in Ukraine. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 01, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:35]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Thursday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us.

Just hours from now, a crucial hearing. A Florida judge will hear arguments from former President Trump's lawyer and the Justice Department over whether a special master should be appointed to review those documents seized by the DOJ at Mar-a-Lago.

SCIUTTO: In a filing just last night, Trump's lawyers pressed their argument that an independent review is needed. This despite the Justice Department saying it is already parsed through those documents, which is with what is known as a filter team to look for any privileged communications. Trump's lawyers acknowledged that classified material was found at Mar-a-Lago, but argued that should not have been a cause for alarm and should never have led to the search of Trump's home. Trump's lawyers insisted the National Archives should have expected to find classified material because they were presidential records.

HARLOW: Let's begin this morning with CNN correspondent Kara Scannell.

Kara, you are there. You are waiting for this hearing to begin. What more can you tell us about the filing that came in last night right before the deadline? Their main arguments. And, notably, what they didn't say, what they didn't argue.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Poppy.

So, last night, the Trump team had submitted their filing, 19-page filing, where they were asking the judge to appoint a special master. That's this third-party person to review the materials that were seized at Mar-a-Lago not far from here. And they say that the FBI filter team that was in place and reviewed these documents had unchecked discretion when they were reviewing them. They're arguing that the judge should impose someone who is neutral to review the materials.

But he also pushed back at the FBI and the Justice Department's filing on Tuesday, where they said that they had uncovered twice as many classified documents when they went in and seized the material at Mar- a-Lago, just three weeks ago, twice as many that they had gotten from the Trump site in a subpoena. And Trump's lawyers saying that there should be no surprise that any of this material was sensitive.

Here's what they wrote in the filing. The purported justification for the initiation of this criminal probe was the alleged discovery of sensitive information contained within a 15 boxes of presidential records. But this discovery was to be fully anticipated given the very nature of presidential records. Simply put, the notion that presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm.

Now, one thing that is not in this filing is any discussion about whether Trump had declassified any of these documents, the 320 records that DOJ has retained from Mar-a-Lago. He has made that pitch publicly in a lot of his social media posts, but his lawyers not making that argument today.

Now, of course, the Justice Department pushing back saying there's no need for a special master, that their filter team has already done this review, and that these records actually belong to the government, not the former president. So, he shouldn't receive access to these records and he shouldn't be able to review them himself.

Jim. Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Kara Scannell, the fight goes on. Thanks very much.

So, joining us now to discuss, Glenn Gerstell. He's former general counsel of the National Security Agency, serving, we should note, during both the Obama and Trump administrations.

Glenn, good to have you back, particularly with your experience here.

So, one note in Trump's response on social media at least, he looked at this picture that the FBI agents took of the evidence they've gathered there at Mar-a-Lago and said that they took them out of cartons and spread them around on the carpet. Saying, in effect, he did have those classified materials there. And we should note again, this is after there had been repeated requests to return them and after his lawyers had said that all the classified materials had already been handed over to the government.

From a legal perspective, is that public admission by the president relevant? Is it evidence of potential criminality?

GLENN GERSTELL, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY AND CENTRAL SECURITY SERVICE: Jim, it's certainly a shocking admission. The story has changed from the documents weren't there, we gave them all back, they were declassified, to now some rather startling admissions by the - by the president and his lawyers in his legal filing.

You know, the fact that that picture was displayed that way, President Trump seems to indicate that it was staged or something unusual, that this isn't - this isn't how he stored the records. They weren't stored on the floor.

Well, there was no thought that the records were stored on the floor. This was a photograph typically taken by law enforcement after they collect evidence.

[09:05:01]

And think of all the photographs we've seen of -- after a drug bust or a raid of guns displayed on a table by the local police department or the drugs arrayed, that's exactly what this photograph was, it was - it was something that the FBI does to preserve a sense of what range of evidence they collected. So it -- there was no -- nothing inappropriate about the photograph at all.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Glenn, thanks so much for joining us, especially given your experience at the NSA.

And I just wonder if you expect the argument laid out in these 19 pages from Trump's legal team that nothing to see -- basically nothing to see here, folks. This should have been expected. He was president. It would be no surprise that he would have documents like this.

How would you expect that to potentially move Judge Aileen Cannon in either direction today?

GERSTELL: It's true that there's no surprise that the Trump - that President Trump would have had access to sensitive and classified documents. Of course, that was his job. But he wasn't supposed to take them home with him. That's a big difference.

So, I don't think that particular point is going to be persuasive with the judge today at -- at today's hearing. The judge is going to be considering their claim for the appointment of a special master, which is something that is in the discretion of the judge. The judge doesn't have to do that. And I might add, it's generally disfavored. This is not a common step. But it could be done. The judge could decide to sort of bend over backwards in the interests of giving the former president every possible opportunity and go ahead and go ahead with the special master, even though legally it's on very shaky ground.

SCIUTTO: You wrote in a recent op-ed for "The Washington Post," I'm going to quote here, that the intense politically charged focus on criminality deflects attention from the far more pernicious danger that we fail to appreciate the national security risks posed by casually tossing government documents into moving boxes.

You, of course, served as general counsel again for the NSA, one of the intelligence agencies. Explain the national security risk here. And also, if you could, if an NSA employee or another government employee current or former, right up to director level did the same, would they be prosecuted? GERSTELL: So, the significance here is that these documents, and we

saw that they're top secret, we saw that they may contain information about human sources, spies, other very, very sensitive secrets. This is all information that our adversaries, Russia, China, other countries, would love to get their hands on, either to see the substance of it or to figure out how we got that information. That could be really dangerous to us if those adversaries found out about that information.

So, we need to do some kind of damage assessment, to figure out, what are the chances that they access this information? And if they did, maybe we need to take steps to deal with it. If you - if you lost your keys to your house, you would wonder if you have to change all your locks in your home. You'd worry if -- excuse me, if someone else got into your house while you weren't there, what else did they see?

Well, the same principle applies here. We could have to do anything from pull agents out of foreign countries because we think they might have been compromised. And, again, we're not going to take the risk. If we just think there's a possibility but can't rule it out, we're still going to have to go ahead and possibly take action in that regard.

And as your latter quick point, look, if any government employee, whether high ranking or low ranking, violates the laws, takes home with them out of a secure facility classified documents that are required to be handled in a very specific way, then, if the elements of a crime are met, then, yes, indeed, they would be prosecuted, absolutely.

HARLOW: Glenn, thank you so much for this insight on all of this following the filing from Trump's team.

GERSTELL: Thank you.

HARLOW: We really appreciate it.

GERSTELL: Thank you.

HARLOW: Also, this just in to CNN, weekly jobless claims dropping again to 232,000.

SCIUTTO: It's an interesting economy, is it not, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. Totally.

SCIUTTO: Because you certainly have inflation news, which is alarming to all involved, even as it slows down somewhat. But the job market remains strong.

We should note, however, that several big companies, including Snapchat, Bed, Bath & Beyond and Ford have announced some layoffs.

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with more.

Christine, tell us big picture, where does the job market stand in an economy that folks are watching very closely right now?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you guys are right, it's like a split screen, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROMANS: We're concerned about inflation. We're concerned about the Fed raising interest rates. The worries about a recession. And, on the other hand, you have these job numbers, these layoff numbers that continue to be very good.

Weekly jobless claims fell this week. They're now the lowest since June. They fell last week too. They revised them down last week. You guys, you know, I always say it, the trend in economic numbers is your friend. And that trend is very, very significant. It is showing that companies want to hold on to their workers.

Yet, this week, you're right, there have been some notable companies that are starting to right size after getting too big during the pandemic. And in other cases, starting to shift gears as the economy changes.

[09:10:01]

We heard from Wayfair, which is laying off 900 positions. It's talking about a post pandemic world. Remember, that was really popular during the pandemic when we were all stuck at home.

Ford is pivoting to more electric vehicles. That's going to change its kind of cost cutting in some areas so that it can invest there.

Walmart we heard recently, some corporate layoffs there at Walmart.

Bed, Bath & Beyond, the big one yesterday, closing 150 stores. Falling sales and supply issues the problem there.

And Peloton, that's one of those pandemic winners that is now having to re-adjust.

You know, you talk to CEO. PricewaterhouseCoopers surveyed CEOs and they do expect to start having to cut jobs over the next six to 12 months. Fifty percent of firms anticipate some sort of reduction in head count.

But you're not seeing it really here yet. And the folks who track layoffs over at Challenger, Gray & Christmas, they say that they expect to see the automotive sector start to lead here. And, why? Because you're going to see these companies starting to really retool for electric and for renewable. You've got the Inflation Reduction Act, which has incentives for that. You've got California moving aggressively to wean itself off of gas engines. And so there is a big incentive for companies to start beefing up their workforces in different ways.

So, very complicated and interesting economy, you're right, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Christine Romans, thanks very much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

HARLOW: In the last several hours, a team of international nuclear monitors have arrived at Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia power plant despite, we should note, significant danger. One of the reactors there has been shut down this morning and the mayor of a nearby town says the Russian shelling right near that plant has been relentless.

SCIUTTO: Also ahead, Sarah Palin has lost her bid for Congress. This after the votes rolled in under the ranked choice system there. Why this race could be another sign of potential midterm trouble, or at least reduced expectations, for Republicans.

And Serena Williams wins big in her second match at the U.S. Open, knocking off the number two seed. What she said about how she's playing and why she invited Tiger Woods.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:13]

HARLOW: Serena Williams sure isn't playing as if she is going to retire after the U.S. Open. Last night she beat the second ranked woman in the world. The crowd was -- just listen - a raucous crowd, cheering her on. Now she advances, Jim, to the third round.

SCIUTTO: Yes, she beat the number two seed. It's no small thing in the second round. The 23-time - 23-time grand slam champion says she is playing with a freedom she hasn't felt on the court in more than 20 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA WILLIAMS, 23-TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMPION: I'm super competitive. I'm - honestly, I'm just looking at it as a bonus. I don't have anything to prove. I don't have anything to win. And I have absolutely nothing to lose. And, honestly, I never get to play like this since '98, really. Literally, I've had an x on my back since '99.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN sports correspondent Carolyn Manno was there. We ask you these questions jealously this morning, Carolyn.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean it's amazing to hear Serena Williams say, you know, I'm super competitive, which, of course, is, you know, we knew that, man, and you've shown it. Tell us - tell us what it was like to be there last night.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that sound bite really says it all. What it's felt like, it's felt more like a boxing ring than a tennis court. I mean the atmosphere has been unbelievable.

But this is the final bow that the greatest the sport has ever seen deserves. And the fact that she feels so mentally free to embrace this moment and try to enjoy this moment, while also performing at the level that we're seeing her perform at, is just incredible.

I mean, when you think about her career, Jim and Poppy, spanning nearly three decades at the professional level, spanning five American presidents, and you talk about the grand slam singles titles and the four Olympic gold medals, there are so much to what she has been carrying that it's been so heavy for her and we're getting that insight now finally. She's been so honest about being a wife, being a mom, being a professional athlete, being a global ambassador, being a role model for women, helping minority communities. She takes on the world and has given her life to tennis. And there are very few people that can understand what this has felt like for her to perform at this level for as long as she has, and that's why she credited Tiger Woods with really helping her get through this.

Take a listen to what she said about Tiger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERENA WILLIAMS, 23-TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMPION: One of the main - one of the reasons I'm here, one of the main reasons I'm still playing, so we - we talked a lot, and he was really trying to get me motivated. And there's a few people. But, you know, he was -- we were, like, OK, we can do this together, you know? And when you can rely on someone like that, I mean, my goodness, he's Tiger Woods. It just was really helpful to get clarity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: She feels supported right now, Jim and Poppy. And that has freed her up on the court. It has helped her calm down. And that translates to everything. That translates to her serve being there. That translates to her being able to dictate what happens on the court against her opponent. She made a coaching change in Rennae Stubbs and Rennae has really been focused on preparing her mentally. She has told me all week, I'm telling her I love her. I'm telling her everybody loves her. So it's that mental piece that you guys noted that is so key, that is ultimately making the difference.

And this is - this is what she deserves. And I am not going to count her out against her next opponent or the one after that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And you didn't, by the way, yesterday, on this program, you called this, Carolyn. So, glad you could be there to see it actually happen. Thanks so much.

MANNO: You're welcome.

HARLOW: Joining us now is Amy Bass, author and professor of sports studies at Manhattanville College. This week she wrote an opinion piece for cnn.com, where she writes, quote, while so many bill this as her last hurrah, her swan song, her farewell, Williams played it as something different, another chance to win.

[09:20:10]

Amy, it's great to have you.

AMY BASS, PROFESSOR OF SPORTS STUDIES, MANHATTANVILLE COLLEGE: Thanks so much.

HARLOW: And all I kept thinking in Carolyn's reporting is talking about how many people are supporting her, telling her they love her, building her up. That, combined with feeling free and like there's nothing to lose, seems like that's everything for her right now.

BASS: Yes, it almost feels like it's her and 30,000 people watching her in that -- in Arthur Ashe Stadium, willing her forward, but also willing her opponents to lose. I mean we're seeing something - you know, we're seeing a little bit of bad behavior, a little bit of bad etiquette going on, you know, cheering for double faults on her opponent. But, you know, what we're seeing is someone showing up who's not ready to just do the pomp and circumstance of good-bye, but she's there to win.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we should note this for her opponents, tough to play in these circumstances, right?

HARLOW: Sure.

SCIUTTO: That was the number two in the world. Has her own career and own talent.

I do want to ask you about that comment, her saying she's been playing with a target on her back. Now, some of that is natural. I mean she's been the best in the world, right? Arguably the best player ever, right, you know, who played this game. But what do you think she was revealing there? Was she revealing part of the toughness of what she has gone through in a way?

BASS: A hundred percent. I mean, amidst all of the symbolism and ceremony, I think some of it is reading as a veiled apology for holding her and her sister Venus at arm's length, or much, much worse, for so much of their careers. You know, we think back to Indian Wells in 2001, you know, vocal racial slurs being hurled at them, reaction to them, and everything else. You know, critiques of their bodies, they're too bold, they're not bold enough, they're too muscular, they're not ladylike, they're too distracted by things, you know, like venture capitalism. So, I think that amidst the farewell, there is also sort of a bringing her completely in and I would call it a little bit of an apology.

HARLOW: So, I love that. I love that her daughter, Olympia, you know, has gotten to be there and really take it in. And she's five, so she like gets it. She gets what mommy's doing. She gets how big this is. Olympia turns five today. What do you make of seeing that because I think, importantly for

everyone who's a parent, Serena's been really outspoken about not just the upsides, but the hardest parts of it too.

BASS: Yes, I think she's been very vocal about what female athletes have to deal with that their male counterparts don't have to deal with. I think her piece in "Vogue" put that front and center rather than sort of hiding motherhood as something else.

HARLOW: Yes.

BASS: And I think that, you know, Monday night was perhaps the greatest take your kid to workday we've ever seen. You know, there's her child, five years old, camera in hand, white beads, right, paying homage to her mom at 17, winning her first open, it was - it was a pretty perfect circle of work/life balance, which we know doesn't exist, but she was there.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, what a -- first of all, what a cute little girl.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I love the beads. A special moment for her, special moment for the sport. Thanks so much for helping put it into a sense of history for us.

Amy Bass, thank you.

BASS: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the emergency system activated and a reactor actually shut down now at the Zaporizhzhia Ukraine nuclear power plant, the largest in Europe. This as dangerous shelling continues to rock the area around it. CNN will be live in that region coming up, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:21]

SCIUTTO: A team from the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA, has now arrived at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. This after a three-hour delay - and we should note -- in the middle of ongoing shelling at Europe's largest nuclear facility.

HARLOW: Our Melissa Bell is in Kyiv, Ukraine.

Melissa, the director of the IAEA admitted this - this is a mission that is, in his words, quote, not risk free but one that has to happen. What do we know about what the inspectors will be doing there over the coming days?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the end, Poppy and Jim, it was even more fraught than they'd anticipated since what we saw around the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant as Rafael Grossi and his team were setting out were some of the worst shelling this Russian-held town has seen, says its mayor, since the occupation began in March.

With all of the dangers to the plant, as you mentioned, one of those reactors has now been turned off. It is a single reactor that is now functioning at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. And that is the context, Poppy, in which they set off this morning, very bravely saying that they would carry on and get there nonetheless.

It took them much longer than it should have, as Jim mentioned, three hours they were stuck with the Ukrainian energy minister making a claim that once they crossed that Ukrainian line, once they cross the front line into Russian-held territory, and that's where the power plant lies, Ukrainians couldn't be responsible for their safety. It gives you an idea of the risks they've taken.

The question is, of course, as you say, what they will see, what they will find. The very fact that they are there, good news, but it is unclear exactly what they're going to have access to.