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Today, Hearing on Trump Request for Special Master to Review Documents; Trump Acknowledges Top Secret Documents Found Inside His Home; Jackson Residents Now Four Days Without Water to Drink, Flush Toilets. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 01, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim SCIUTTO.

We are just three hours away from a critical hearing, one more, in Florida, where a judge is expected to decide, to finally make that decision on whether to appoint a special master to review documents seized during the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago. This hearing comes just hours after President Trump's lawyers responded to the DOJ's damning filing on Tuesday.

HARLOW: In their response, Trump's lawyers pressed their argument that an independent review is needed despite the Justice Department saying it had already filtered out any privileged documents.

Trump's lawyers also acknowledged that classified material was found at Mar-a-Lago, but say there was no need to be alarmed, that Trump's home should never have been searched for this.

And while we still don't know what was in the 320-plus highly classified documents that were recovered, we do know that the Justice Department believes Trump attempted to obstruct the FBI's investigation into the potential mishandling of classified material. So, there's a lot to digest.

Let's begin this morning with CNN Correspondent Kara Scannell in West Palm Beach, Florida. You're there outside of the courthouse. This hearing is going to start at 1:00 Eastern Time today. Can you walk us through what plays out now?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy. About three hours from now, lawyers for former President Trump and the Justice Department will appear before a judge in the courthouse just behind me. And Trump's lawyers are going to make the case that they need a special master, a third party, to review the 320 classified documents and others that were seized when the FBI executed that search warrant at Mar-a-Lago three weeks ago.

Now, Trump's team saying that the FBI's filter team, that's separate from the investigators, had unchecked discretion when they reviewed these materials. They want the judge to put an independent person in place.

Interesting in the court filing that the Trump team put out last night, they make no mention of an argument about declassifying these documents, something that Trump has said publicly that that was not an issue. In the filing instead, they kind of takes a swipe at the Justice Department's investigation and saying, so, you noted that there should be no surprise that they were sensitive information materials.

Here is what they write. The purported justification for the initiation of this criminal probe was alleged discovery of sensitive information contained within the 15 boxes of presidential records, that this discovery was fully anticipated given the very nature of presidential records. Simply put, the notion that presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm.

Now, the Justice Department opposes the appointment of a special master. They're saying that their filter team has already reviewed these documents. There's a limited set that could be covered by privilege. And there're already protocols in place that a judge has signed off on for the review. Those materials, they are also saying that these records belong to the U.S. government, not former President Trump. He's trying to get a copy of all of the materials that were seized and they're opposing that.

It's about three hours from now. This will appear before the judge. She has said -- she's a Trump appointee. She has said that she is inclined to grant the special master. But since she said that there's been a number of new filings, a lot more material that's been made both public and private under seal, we'll see where she comes out on this today after arguments. Jim and Poppy?

SCIUTTO: No question. Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

So, what is the law? Joining us now to discuss, former New York City Prosecutor Paul Callan and former CIA Intelligence Officer david Priess.

If I can begin with you, Paul, lots of developments yesterday, some inside the courtroom, some out. So, outside the courtroom, Trump on his social channel taking issue with this photo that showed the evidence the FBI collected, said, well, no. I mean, we didn't keep it on the floor. We kept it in cartons, which is the president acknowledging that the classified documents were kept, and we should note after his lawyer said they returned everything. Is that material to the ongoing investigation?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is material in a sense that it's confirmation that he had in his possession these highly classified documents. And even if he waved a magic wand over them and said they're not classified, they're still defense and military information, and there are statutes making it a crime for somebody to hold or conceal those documents. [10:05:02]

And I have to say, Jim, the question that people have been asking me all day yesterday after this is, what in the world was he doing with over 300 pages of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago after he's left office? Is he going to use it for wallpaper there? I mean, is he going to show it to friends and family who dined with him? Why should an ex- president of the United States have sensitive classified documents like this in unsecured areas of his personal residence? That's an answer I think maybe we'll see when we have a hearing later today.

HARLOW: David, you are a former CIA intelligence officer, so you clearly have a deep understanding of the importance of classification, the different levels of it. Some of these, as we saw on that photo, were near the top of the classification list.

The Trump legal team argued in this filing last night, quote, simply put, the notion that presidential records would contain sensitive information should never have been cause for alarm. They're essentially saying, no problem here, completely disregarding the fact that these are not the former president's documents. They belong to the country, to the American people, to be stored with National Archives. What do you make of this argument?

DAVID PRIESS, FORMER CIA INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: They seem to have ignored the government's arguments in the motion that was filed previously, because they made very clear, these are subject to the Presidential Records Act. When President Trump left office and became private citizen Trump, all of those documents are the property of the United States government. And the National Archives and Records Administration is supposed to be handling those. The president shouldn't have them at all.

So, the defense that, well, you could expect to have some highly sensitive things because these are presidential records, they're basically admitting that he was holding on to presidential records that he should not have had.

And we don't know how the judge is going to read all this. Remember, this is a different judge than the judge who authorized the search warrant. So, this is a judge who had not seen the full affidavit and the full description of everything that had happened. But the government motion made very clear that these were government records, that private citizen Trump had no right to be holding on to them in the first place.

So, the entire Trump legal argument that it's okay to have sensitive materials because they're part of presidential records inherently, it doesn't hold any water in this case.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Paul Kallan, another legal question for you, because, of course, there's the evidence and there's prosecutorial discretion as to whether they charge given all the political implications here. But there are, as I understand it, aggravating factors that factor to that decision. And I wonder, what efforts to conceal the continued presence of classified documents in Mar-a-Lago, neither not report them, not hand them back or conceal them in another way, would that be an aggravating factor as prosecutors consider that decision?

CALLAN: Yes, Jim, it would be. And there was a lot of evidence that was presented by the Department of Justice in their filing suggesting there was a willful effort and deliberate effort to deceive prosecutors on the existence of more material than was initially turned over.

And, remember, you had a custodian appointed of these records who filed the documents saying that all classified material and all records being sought had been turned over. And when this search warrant was executed, it turns out that was entirely untrue. There were documents found not just in the famous storage area, where these things were supposed to be kept under lock and key, but even in the president's -- he calls it the 45 office, where he has a pretend intrepid desk, just like the one in the White House. And in the drawer of that desk were classified documents sitting next to his passports.

So, the representations made by his lawyers and by this custodian that everything had been turned over turned out to be false. Now, that could be viewed as an obstruction of a governmental investigation, very, very serious crime under federal law.

HARLOW: David, the consistent argument by Trump has been, I declassified these in a sweeping manner before I left office, but his lawyers didn't argue that in this filing. And I wonder how significant that is.

PRIESS: Yes. The lawyers didn't argue that, and they also said in their most recent motion that will be discussed today that, well, we will agree that the special master, if appointed, should have a top secret SCI clearance. Well, there's a contradiction there. If these documents were declassified, as the president and a few others around the president have claimed, then there would be no need for the special master to have a top secret SCI clearance.

If, in fact, the special master, if appointed, would need that clearance, then the claims of these few people are obviously ridiculous, as most other observers claim and as many other people who were around the Trump White House at the time claim because there was no knowledge of any such order.

[10:10:08]

And if there's no knowledge of an order and it was not executed by anybody, then it probably didn't happen.

HARLOW: Paul Callan, David Priess, thanks very much for the insight this morning.

Well, the Department of Justice investigation into those classified documents is just one of seven investigations Trump is currently facing.

Our CNN Correspondent Tom Foreman is keeping track of them. Tom, thank you. Jim and I always talk about the fact that it's hard for anyone to keep this all straight. So, lay it out for us. TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is quite a constellation of investigation swirling around the former president. Let's start with those DOJ documents you were just talking about. The hearing is today, of course, and this issue of a special master. He's just added another new attorney to help deal with that, hundreds of classified documents removed, as Paul noted a minute ago. No answer from the former president as to why he even has them, let alone the way it was stored down there at the Florida resort. And, of course, the Department of Justice has argued that, essentially, the Trump team, in some manner, was trying to obstruct the FBI efforts to retrieve these documents. That's one matter he's facing.

There's the Department of Justice January 6th investigation. This is a huge, biggest investigation in their history, into hundreds of people who stormed the Capitol. Initially, that was a focus. It has expanded beyond that. Now, they're looking for more records that address the idea of how much this was planned by people in Trump's orbit, maybe by Trump himself, how fundraising, transportation, all sorts of things were worked out before this attack on the Capitol. Subpoenas are outstanding for some people very close to the president who might be able to say that they have direct knowledge of Donald Trump's investigation of this -- involvement of this, if he was indeed directly involved.

The January 6th committee helped push that idea forward. You've seen all of the hearings we've had this year. One more is expected this month. They can make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice, not clear if they will, but in terms of the court of public opinion, very important. Their hearings went forward. And just about a month ago, our survey found a really whopping majority of Americans now believe that Donald Trump acted at least unethically and maybe illegally in the events that happened that day, and a very sizable majority believe that he did spark violence on that day, political violence in this country.

And then there is the Georgia probe. This is the state of Georgia, referring way back to that famous phone call with Brad Raffensperger, secretary of state down there, where Trump was saying to him, I need you to find these votes. Find these votes for me in Georgia. And then Lindsey Graham making his own calls down to Georgia asking about it. Well, he's not a senator from Georgia. This is moving forward.

Many people think that this has, right now, maybe some of the sharpest legal teeth out there. It's a little bit on hold because, basically, what's happened is the courts have said, look, we want to get past the November midterm elections. We don't want this to be the deciding factor on how people vote but this could be a big issue here.

And I will note that this is basically a state saying what Republicans have said all along, states have rights. They want to say states have a right to do things. This is the state of Georgia saying, we have a right to protect our election from interference, from a president, from a former president, from a senator who is not our senator.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, great to have that, Tom, because it is difficult even for us. We're doing this every day to keep track. And we should note that that doesn't even list the other ones going into his tax and business practices. Save that for another time.

FOREMAN: We will.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour Jackson, Mississippi, residents, are still without safe drinking water, understandably angry as they wait for promised water distributions as well as a longer term fix. Now, the governor is warning that while there has been some progress at the water treatment plant, more disruptions are unavoidable.

HARLOW: Plus, the major city taking a step to curb gun violence. Watch this.

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MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NEW YORK CITY, NY): I never thought from the days of watching cowboy movies, as a child, leave your gun at the door and become a reality in the state of New York.

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HARLOW: As part of a New York state law, New York City is now enforcing so-called gun-free zones. We are live to see how they will enforce this.

And later, if you are worried about delays and cancelations this Labor Day weekend, double check your airline policies. The major airlines laying out clearly, some of them improving also what they are going to offer you if you're left waiting at the airport.

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SCIUTTO: Remarkable. In this country today, today marks the fourth day in a row that more than 150,000 people in Jackson, Mississippi, state capital, are without safe drinking water. Yesterday, car after car, lined up hours to get bottled water.

HARLOW: The governor says a new rental pump has been installed at that failed water plant but he cautioned there will be more water system interruptions ahead, calling this unavoidable.

Let's go back to our colleague, Amara Walker, who joins us again this morning in Jackson. This facility, Amara, is awaiting new parts to be shipped so crews can work at the various pumps. But as we wait for that to happen, truck loads of water, right, continue to be brought in and residents are up in arms.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're extremely frustrated about the entire situation. Look, it's another busy day for people looking for drinking water. We're here on Beasley Road, where the Salvation Army is distributing water again for the second day in a row.

[10:20:03] They also have a second tractor trailer out in the community here. We're in northern Jackson, Mississippi. They are bringing these cases of water to the homes so many people can avoid waiting in these very long lines. And if you look closely behind me here, these are inmates, low-security inmates, with the Mississippi Department of Corrections, who are also helping in these efforts.

I got to tell you, it's been heartbreaking hearing some of these stories from the volunteers. I spoke with a major with the Salvation Army who said, when you look inside these cars, it almost looks like they are living out of their cars. Because what you're seeing are kids sitting in the backseat. They are in virtual learning right now, doing homework for hours on end, while the parents are waiting in line to get some drinking water.

I spoke with a woman by the name of Anita Shaw. She's 63 years old living with her elderly mother. She tells me she is extremely upset for several reasons. Listen.

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ANITA SHAW, JACKSON RESIDENT: I'm angry about this water crisis because this makes no sense. We had no water for two months almost. So, you can't avoid to buy water when you (INAUDIBLE) and nobody on this side is giving any water. No, they are doing nothing. What are they doing with our tax dollars? You have got to pay the water bill but you can't use the water. That doesn't make sense. I have got a $100 water bill that I just paid.

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WALKER: Now, according to the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency, MEMA, there are now going to be seven mega-distribution sites set up starting today with 36 truckloads of water being brought in daily. And we know that up to 4,500 National Guard troops have been activated to help in this effort. Jim and Poppy, back to you.

SCIUTTO: Amara Walker, good to have you there, thanks so much.

Well, we're joined now by Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker. Senator, thanks for taking the time this morning.

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): Hey, Jim. Thank you for calling attention to these problems.

SCIUTTO: Well, I want to ask you because, of course, you've been paying a lot of attention to this problem as well, and you visited the area during the flooding. The first question is, is there relief in sight?

WICKER: Well, this has been a long-term problem and permanent relief is going to take a while. I will say this. We need to realize there's a flooding problem that's been going on for decades. And then there's the water and sewer problem that has also been a problem.

This city has been under an emergency order from the EPA on safe drinking water for two years. This is the tenth year now under a consent decree about water and sewer -- about the sewage treatment system. So, it's been a long time getting here.

We have solutions to the flooding the problem that are really on the five-yard line right now. We had the Corps of Engineers here last week. It happened that they were here during the flooding time. But they see the problem and we can get that approved by EPA and the Corps of Engineers, say, within five months. That would be part of the solution.

SCIUTTO: Okay. As you mentioned, this has been going on for years, decades, even some residents say there. Who failed these people? It's remarkable to see this taking place in the year 2022 in America. Is it the city? Is it the county? Is it the state? Is it the federal government or all of the above?

WICKER: Look, I really like to look forward, but needless to say, there have been tax-based problems with population decline. There were some businesses that have moved out. But the fact remains, we have money in the pipeline. The bipartisan infrastructure bill provided Mississippi $429 million for water and sewer treatment. So, this is part of it. A large portion of that will be available in this coming fiscal year. So, there's help on the way.

But I'll tell you, this is an emergency. And the American people are seeing this. They've been very responsive. And we're going to need additional federal help to salvage the lives and homes and futures of our major city. I have six grandchildren that live inside the city limits of Jackson. So, this is personal to me but it's also my capital city.

SCIUTTO: You're among the Republicans who voted for that bipartisan infrastructure plan. I think it's often hard for people to understand how long that will take to make a difference. Can you give folks who are watching perhaps from the area now a sense as to, okay, when there will be a longer term fix here?

WICKER: Well, there's going to be a short-term fix in terms of this rented pump. And then I think within a matter of months, we can get this one pump fixed. But we've known for a while that the problem goes much deeper.

[10:25:01]

We have pipes under the city that are crumbling after decades and decades. So, it will be a long-term fix.

But we need to get the fixes approved by Washington, D.C., by the EPA and the people who have the ability to say yes to solutions that will come up that have been arrived at on a bipartisan basis locally.

SCIUTTO: Got you. And we do wish those people the best of luck. I'm sorry to see them going through this.

I do want to ask you about another tactic given your role on the Senate Armed Services Committee, Ukraine. Ukrainian forces have now begun a significant offensive in the south. Is it your view that they have the capability, the manpower and the weapons, particularly from the U.S. and the west, to take back and hold significant amounts of Russian territory?

WICKER: The Congress has authorized sufficient money to give our commander-in-chief the ability to help Ukraine. And I think that's being done right now. As you know, there's a bipartisan delegation over in Ukraine right now, Senator Klobuchar and Senator Portman.

I think what we're supplying them has basically sidelined the Russian navy in the Black Sea. That is huge. I think the fact that we're hitting on (ph) depots in Crimea is a good sign.

And let's just remember this, Jim, that Ukrainians are fighting for their own land. They're fighting for their own country against an invading force. And when people are fighting for their homeland, they're much more likely to succeed.

My hat is off to the Ukrainians, to their leadership. I'm glad they've come together as a nation. And all they're asking us to do is to supply them with the missiles and weaponry, continue being successful. I think they can be. And my heart is with them on this counteroffensive.

SCIUTTO: Yes. We've been watching it closely from the beginning, and remarkable considering what the predictions were at the start of it.

If I could ask you quickly before you go, and, again, this is -- again, given your service on the Armed Services Committee, where you have security clearance, just in the most simple terms, should a former president or any former government official keep highly classified materials in their possession, particularly if they leave their role? Is that a safe thing to do?

WICKER: Generally speaking, you are asking me a general question, and that is not a safe thing to do. I do not know what is declassified. But I do like the idea of a special master coming in, someone who both sides can agree doesn't have a stake in this. Get someone who knows what they are talking about to come in and give the public some clarity and insight and transparency.

I also would like just to point out there. There has been a double standard when it comes to investigating members of the Democratic Party. If we're going to start looking into public officials at the highest level, there's been some looking away on the part of investigating Democrats. I just have to say that.

SCIUTTO: Senator Roger Wicker, part of a larger conversation, we appreciate you joining us this morning.

WICKER: Thank you, Jim.

HARLOW: Well, a symbol of hate on display at West Point. What the military academy is saying about this plaque that features Ku Klux Klan imagery and why it is allowed to stay for now.

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