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Student Test Scores Plunge; Mississippi Water Crisis; Ohio Police Shooting; Mar-a-Lago Case Court Hearing. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 01, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

At this moment, Donald Trump's lawyers are arguing in court for the first time about the FBI search of his home. A federal judge in Florida is holding a hearing to respond to Trump's request for a special master. That's a neutral third party who would review the hundreds of government documents the FBI retrieved from Mar-a-Lago.

The Justice Department is arguing against a special master, saying it is unnecessary and could harm national security. Last night, Trump's lawyers submitted a filing claiming the DOJ could not be trusted to vet the document.

BLACKWELL: Now, Trump's attorney said the filter team that the FBI is using to review the seized papers has virtually unchecked discretion in addressing potential privilege disputes.

The judge presiding over today's hearing was appointed by former President Trump and has already indicated that she is leaning toward a special master. Now, that was before the explosive brief from the Justice Department. It laid out the months-long effort by federal investigators to get back the government's classified records.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is tracking all the developments. He is joining us from Washington.

So what's happening so far?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, we don't really know much about what's going on in court. We can't get any updates until the hearing is over, Victor and Alisyn.

But what we know is that the Trump team is going to -- is trying to present to the judge this idea that it is no surprise that there were what they said sensitive documents that were found in these records that were retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. It's basically an admission that indeed there were classified documents found there.

They're just saying it's not that big of a deal. I will read you just a part of what they say in their brief last night. It says that: "The purported justification for the initiation of this

criminal probe was the alleged discovery of sensitive information contained within the 15 boxes of presidential records. But this discovery was to be fully anticipated, given the very nature of presidential records. Simply put, the notion that presidential records would contain sensitive information should never have been cause for alarm."

What the Trump team doesn't -- their lawyers do not really confront is the allegation from the Justice Department that what they believe is happening is an obstruction of this investigation, that boxes that were never supposed to have been moved from this -- the storage room were moved and not moved back. That's one of the key allegations in the court filing.

The other part of this is that Trump himself and his team got a subpoena back in May. And they were told to turn over all documents with classification markings. That did not happen, clearly, because the picture you're showing right there is from August 8, when the FBI conducted the search, Victor and Alisyn. And, clearly, you can see there's markings on those documents.

They are colored papers of different significant -- signification -- the significance of them, meaning that they're classified top secret and others, other classifications. So, clearly, they did not comply with that subpoena. And that's part of why the Justice Department says there's an effort to obstruct their investigation.

CAMEROTA: OK, Evan, so now on to a different investigation into Donald Trump. We know that two of his White House counsel are about to appear before a federal grand jury.

Just remind us which -- what that investigation is all about.

PEREZ: Right. It's hard to keep them all straight.

But this is the investigation that is looking at the former president's efforts to impede the transfer of power. This is what the Justice Department is looking at. And this is the Friday grand jury that we have been tracking, Victor and Alisyn.

This is the one that is looking at this effort to seek these fake electors and trying to throw the election to Donald Trump. Pat Cipollone, the former White House counsel, his deputy, Patrick Philbin, are both now expected to appear before this grand jury tomorrow.

And they're going to be answering questions from the prosecutor who's leading this investigation. What we're not clear about is whether they're going to claim some sort of sort of executive privilege on some of the -- on some of the questions that they're asked, and how that's going to go with the Justice Department. We're waiting to hear more about that tomorrow.

CAMEROTA: OK, Evan Perez, thank you very much for explaining all of that. Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. He's a former

federal prosecutor.

Elie, great to have you here.

So, the arguments are under way right now as we speak in this courtroom. What could we possibly know today about the what the judge decides?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, Alisyn, this is happening in federal court, first of all, so that's why there's no cameras in the courtroom, there is no live feed.

[14:05:01]

The federal courts are very old-fashioned. Even though these are public proceedings, it's not easy for the public to get access. The judge will hear the arguments from both sides. And then this could go several ways.

Sometimes, judges hear arguments and say, thank you parties for all of your arguments. I will be issuing my order soon. That could be later today. That could be tomorrow. That could be next week. It's up to the judge.

Or the judge may give a full ruling from the bench, and then our reporter will come running out and tell us what it is. Or, sometimes, judges give partway rulings. The judge may say, I am or am not going to grant the special master. And my full order, my full reasoning will follow soon.

So it's going to be one of those three scenarios probably sometime fairly soon.

BLACKWELL: Should we expect new arguments beyond what was filed by the DOJ and the Trump team?

HONIG: I don't think we're going to see new arguments that we have not heard before. You're actually supposed to limit your argument in court to what you have already put in your brief.

You're not supposed to have surprise attacks, things that you haven't said before. But, invariably, the parties, the lawyers will articulate things in different ways. And it wouldn't at all surprise me if we hear, particularly on DOJ's side of the argument, Well, there's new details, there's new nuance, there's points that they're stressing in different ways.

CAMEROTA: Here's what we know about the Trump argument. And this comes from one of Donald Trump's lawyers who went on FOX TV last night...

HONIG: Right.

CAMEROTA: ... and explained why this is much ado about nothing. So let's listen to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA HABBA, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I have been down there. I'm down there frequently. I have never seen that. I have never, ever seen that. That is not the way his office looks. Anybody that knows President Trump's office, he has guests frequently there.

It is -- it's just a joke. They literally must have gone in and taken out documents they wanted or cover letters, as it is, and put it about so that the public believes that this is top secret documents that were on his floor. It's ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He has guests frequently there. We know that he had three of the classified documents in his desk drawer.

What did you think about that argument?

HONIG: Well, the point she makes is half-right.

She is correct to note that -- and FBI and DOJ have not made any bones about this. The documents were not splayed out across the carpet, like we see there. That's not how the FBI found them. What the FBI did here, and they have said this, and what they do normally, if you find something that may be evidence of a crime, and it's concealed, it's in a box, it's in a suitcase or whatever, first, you photograph it in its natural state as you found it.

And then you will do what it appears the FBI has done here, which is lay it out so that it's more visible as close as possible to whatever the conveyance is. So it's important to know that. That's a fair distinction to draw.

Ultimately, though, I don't know how much of a defense it is, because the point is, you have clearly marked red and yellow, big all-caps letters, classified documents. I don't think it's a defense to that point.

BLACKWELL: Part of what we heard from the Trump team in this filing that came last night -- and let's put it up on the screen about that specific photo.

"The government's response gratuitously included a photograph of alleged classified materials pulled from a container and spread across the floor for dramatic effect."

How much of that is a valid point? Were all of the details that we appreciated receiving about the investigation, were they necessary in opposing the request for a special master?

HONIG: So, it's such an interesting point, because the bottom line legal ask here, we want a special master, is really not sensational. It's fairly mundane. It's bureaucratic.

Yet both sides really have escalated this into this massive battle. I mean, Trump's initial filing was out of control. He buried the request among all these really conspiracy theories and outrageous claims. DOJ, for its part, fired back aggressively. Remember, they asked for double the amount of pages. They attached a photograph. That photograph wasn't, strictly speaking, necessary to make their legal arguments.

I think they're trying to stress that how visible these classified documents were. But they put that photo in there for us, for the media, and the public as well. Trump's brief last night, I think they actually got -- some better lawyers seem to have taken hold here. There's several oversteps and, I think, misstatements in that brief, but the tone of that brief is much more focused on the bottom line, which is, we just want the special master.

CAMEROTA: What about one of the arguments from the DOJ, which is that when the FBI went to retrieve these classified documents, Donald Trump's lawyer and representative who was supposed to be the liaison for any presidential records never said that anything was declassified and never said there was executive privilege?

HONIG: Yes, so, there's a couple of things on this.

One of DOJ's main points here is, we were slow-played and strung along and ultimately lied to, and that's one of the main reasons we had to go get a search one.

I mean, one of the things that was so telling to me is that, when DOJ served a subpoena saying, hey, please, we're doing this nice, we're not going to send agents in, just bring us all the documents you had, they got a certain number of documents and then said, that's it. No more classified documents.

DOJ says, when we did the search warrant, we immediately found double, double that number. And I think it raises questions potentially about obstruction. We know obstruction is one of the statutes that they're looking at, and this intentional knowing mishandling of defense information.

BLACKWELL: All right, Elie, we are standing by to stand by.

HONIG: We're here. Let's go. Let's do this.

BLACKWELL: Waiting to find out what's happening inside that courtroom in West Palm Beach.

CAMEROTA: You're on retainer now.

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: And as soon as we get some answers, we will bring you back.

[14:10:00]

Thanks, Elie.

HONIG: All right. CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile, officials are using an emergency pump

to try to get the water flowing at that damaged water treatment facility in Jackson, Mississippi.

But the mayor there says there are new challenges with the water chemistry and sanitation. Today is the fourth day that homes and businesses have been without full water service. But the problems have persisted for much longer than that.

BLACKWELL: A restaurant owner tells CNN every time she goes to the tab, there's a different result.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANYA BURNS, BRAVO! RESTAURANT: Like, I cannot push that any further against the wall. That's fully turned on this morning.

And the issue is, there is an inconsistency in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Even before this latest crisis, some people say they were under a boil water advisory for drinking water for weeks.

CNN's Amara Walker joins us now live from Jackson.

And you have been speaking to people. What's the degree of, I guess, hope that this is going to be over soon?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think, for the most part, people are quite hopeful, but they're not expecting things regarding this water crisis to get better anytime soon.

Victor, the governor, Tate Reeves, he gave a news conference that wrapped up about 20 minutes ago. The purpose was to announce the seven state-run water distribution sites, including this one here at the Mississippi State Fairgrounds.

And he also gave us an update on the repairs that are being made to that main water treatment facility. He said that the pumps there are operating at a higher level, especially after the newly rented pumps were installed on Wednesday. And, as you mentioned, there have been some issues since then, including regarding the water chemistry, but also the water pressure, the governor saying the water pressure now back to normal.

I do want to mention this as well, because, Victor, you asked me about this yesterday regarding the coordination between the city and the state. Mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba was present at the governor's news conference. When he stood up there, he said, listen, I'm here to show a unified front. This is a symbol of unity to show that we are putting people above politics, we are working together to find a solution as quickly as we can.

Of course, people are grateful when they get their cases of drinking water or non-potable water. But I can tell you, a lot of people we have been speaking with are simply fed up. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANITA SHAW, JACKSON RESIDENT: I am angry about this water crisis, because this don't make no sense. We ain't had no water for two months almost. So you can't afford to buy water when you -- and nobody on this side to us give any water.

No, they ain't doing nothing. What are they doing with our tax dollars? You got to pay a water bill, but you can't use the water. That don't make no sense. I got a $100 water bill I just paid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Yes, a lot of emotions we have been saying the last couple of days.

Here at the Mississippi State Fairgrounds, we have been seeing a steady stream of cars for the last couple of hours. They need water, clearly. And also the National Guard, we know that 600 National Guard troops have so far been activated -- Victor and Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we can understand her outrage, two months without water, and, as she says, she's a taxpayer.

Amara Walker, thank you very much for the latest from there.

For more information about how you can help the Jackson water crisis, you can go to CNN.com/Impact.

BLACKWELL: An unarmed black man is shot and killed in his bed by Ohio police serving a warrant. And now the man's family is calling on immediate reform for the Columbus Police Department, which is already under scrutiny.

CAMEROTA: And new data shows that students' scores in math and reading plunged during the pandemic. The challenge now of reversing this trend -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:10]

BLACKWELL: A police officer in Ohio is on leave after shooting and killing an unarmed black man in his bed. Officials in Columbus released body camera footage of the moment the 20-year-old Donovan Lewis was fatally shot overnight on Tuesday.

This happened while officers were carrying out a search warrant. We want to warn you that this video is upsetting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to send that dog in.

Hands. Hands. (GUNSHOT)

(DOG BARKING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got something in his hands. He's got something in his hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's Brynn Gingras is following this story for us.

My gosh, it's very hard to watch that.

So, the Columbus police chief said that the responding officer thought that Lewis something in his hand. What have you learned?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they have they have discovered that it was not a weapon. It was a vape pen.

I want to put this whole story, though, into context for you, because it's very important. According to the Columbus Police Department, they say that they were executing this search warrant about 2:30 in the morning.

Now, just so you know, that is within policy. That's not also unusual to be conducting those search warrants at that early morning hour. They said they were outside that apartment for about eight to 10 minutes trying to get into the apartment. When they finally did, they knew that someone else was inside.

And that's when they sent that dog in. that's why you see that dog. Now, the big issue here, though, is that frame where you see him firing that shot. And you had just seen that 20-year-old standing up on the bed. That's the big question. Why was that shot fired so quickly?

The other side of that, though, law enforcement saying, is, why did that person not come out? So these are all things that are part of this ongoing investigation. And it's going to be looked into now by the state. It's an independent investigation.

That officer, in the meantime, a 30-year veteran of the force, he is going to be on leave. And his lawyers did release a statement. And I want to read that to you.

[14:20:02]

He said: "When we analyze police-involved shootings, we must look to the totality of the circumstances. And we are expressly forbidden from using 20/20 hindsight, because, unlike all of us, officers are not afforded the luxury of armchair reflection when they're faced with rapidly evolving volatile encounters in dangerous situations."

But, of course, we have a 20-year-old, Donovan Lewis, a son, a grandson, a brother, who is now gone with this incident. And it's not the first time that this has happened with the Columbus Police Department.We know that they have had the DOJ investigating them, looking into their practices, reforming their practices.

The mayor actually admitted to that. There's a number of instances there just within the last couple of years that we can take note of where there have been questionable practices by this police department.

So I want you to hear from the attorney really quickly of the Lewis family really frustrated about that this is another one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX ELLIOTT, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF DONOVAN LEWIS: It's a lot of talk, and not a lot of action.

And, certainly, as we sit up here, yes, Chief Bryant was hired to step up activity so this doesn't happen. But here we are today. And what I'd say is, whatever they're doing, it's not working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Yes, so listen, every incident, you have to take it separately, right? We can't compile them all together.

But it is concerning when there are so many. There are changes that are being made, according to the police department. This one is still under investigation. But, of course, your heart breaks when you do look at that video and when you do see that another young black man has died at the hands of police.

BLACKWELL: Far too many.

Brynn Gingras, thank you.

GINGRAS: All right.

CAMEROTA: There's new info on how the COVID pandemic impacted students nationwide.

National test scores in math and reading plummeted to levels not seen in decades. This is according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, also known as the nation's report card.

BLACKWELL: Now, this is the first report that compares pre-pandemic scores to post-pandemic scores, and it shows the impact of children staying at home and learning virtually.

CNN's Gabe Cohen has this one for us

Gabe, what did the report find?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Victor, Alisyn, right now, schools are scrambling to get kids the resources they need.

But this test result really shows the uphill battle that the pandemic has created. Just look at these results, again, the overall reading score on this test down five points. That is the worst drop-off since 1990. And the match score down seven points, that is the first ever decline in math.

Now, scores for students in just about every demographic declined. But the kids who were hit the hardest were the ones who were already struggling in school. Their scores dropped the most.

Here's how Education Secretary Miguel Cardona reacted to the results this morning on "NEW DAY."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL CARDONA, U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY: It's not surprising, keeping in mind, a year-and-a-half ago, over half of our schools were not open for full-time learning.

We need to give our teachers what I call the ABCs of teaching agency, better working conditions, and then competitive salaries. I'm confident that we're going to reverse that trend, and we're going to go higher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now experts have said that there's evidence school closures, remote learning have driven up some of the other issues that kids are now dealing with, mental health problems, absentee -- absenteeism, I should say, bullying, and much more.

And helping students actually catch up, well, that could take years. This morning, I spoke with a fourth grade teacher in Texas. She told me that she has students in her fourth grade classroom who right now are reading and doing math at a first grade level.

So let's talk about the efforts to improve this. Well, the federal government is pumping a lot of money, more than $100 billion in relief funds, into schools and requiring them right now to spend at least 20 percent of that on learning loss. And so most schools are trying to hire more staff right now, which includes tutors, psychologists and, of course, more teachers.

But that gets to another crisis that's making this tougher. With teacher burnout, with a shrinking teacher pipeline, because, frankly, fewer people want to be teachers right now, many schools are actually facing a teacher shortage, especially in rural areas and those with more low-income families and students of color.

I spent time this week at a school in rural Arizona. There are 70-plus kids in more than a dozen of their classes. And teachers there told me, for so many of those students, who are already dealing with crises in their lives, that's just going to make it that much tougher for them to catch up.

BLACKWELL: Strong headwinds against kids for several years now.

Gabe Cohen, thank you for the reporting.

CAMEROTA: All right, Serena Williams marches on with a stunning upset, beating the number two player in the world. Where Serena goes from here, that's next.

BLACKWELL: And in a prime-time address tonight, President Biden is expected to resurrect the central theme from his 2020 campaign. This is an attempt to secure a Democratic majority in 2022.

[14:25:01]

Will it resonate with voters?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Tennis legend Serena Williams is heading to the third round of the U.S. Open in what could be the final tournament of her career.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The 40-year-old beat the odds-on player, the number two player in the world, last night.

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