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Former Trump White House Lawyers Appear Before Federal Grand Jury; 1/6 Committee Wants To Speak To Newt Gingrich As Ginni Thomas' Role In Election Reversal Scheme Faces New Scrutiny; Trump Vows Again To Pardon 1/6 Defendants If Reelected, Says He's Financially Supporting Some; Serena Williams Favored To Win Third-Round Singles Match Tonight; Biden's Hometown Reacts To Student Loan Debt Relief. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 02, 2022 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:32:21]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Right now, a series of big names tied to former President Trump are in the spotlight of the January 6th investigations. Multiple investigations of course. Former Trump White House lawyers, Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin, are testifying today.

Here you see Cipollone arriving today at the courthouse, about to meet with the federal grand jury as part of the Justice Department's investigation into January 6th.

Meanwhile, we're learning the House Select Committee wants to speak to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

And conservative activist, Ginni Thomas. The wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is also back on their radar. We now know she emailed Wisconsin lawmakers urging them to reverse Joe Biden's win in that state, just like she did with Arizona lawmakers.

And in the face of these developments, last night, former President Trump once again vowed to pardon people who were charged in the capitol attack should he be reelected.

Let's bring in former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh and CNN legal analyst, Areva Martin.

Areva, I want to start with the grand jury. They had both already testified before the House Select Committee and interviewed with the FBI in that ongoing classified-documents probe. Today, they are talking with DOJ officials before the grand jury.

Explain why they could be central witnesses in all three of these investigations.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Really devastating news today, Ana, for Donald Trump and team because Pat Cipollone and his deputy were in the inner circle, the inner most circle. And they worked closest -- some of the closest advisers to Donald Trump.

And we know Pat Cipollone was in the meeting on January 6th and leading up to January 6th. And that we know pat also believes that there was no widespread voter fraud.

And that the efforts by Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and others to try to overturn the election, that there was no basis for it. And in fact, he thought -- stated as much that activity engaged in by Trump potentially could be criminal.

And now a subpoena before the grand jury, Pat Cipollone will not be able to hide behind executive privilege. He didn't answer all the questions posed to him by the January 6th Select Committee. He asserted executive privilege.

But he won't have the ability do that before the grand jury.

He will be forced to answer questions about conversations that he had with Donald Trump, what he heard, what he learned about these efforts to engage in this criminal activity related to pressuring states to overturn both legitimate votes and pressuring states to put forth false electors.

[13:35:03]

So this is a really big deal. And it is a very devastating day for Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Before I turn to Congressman Walsh here, just to follow up, you said he can't exert executive privilege when he talks to DOJ investigators and grand jury?

MARTIN: Not the privilege that he's been stating. Donald Trump uses that executive privilege, and as if he still has the rights to it.

And what we should be very clear about, executive privilege belongs to the executive, i.e., the president that is in the White House. Donald Trump is no longer in the White House. He no longer has the rights to assert that privilege.

And in real time, during the grand jury proceedings, if Pat Cipollone asserts executive privilege, they can go before the judge and have the issue of executive privilege adjudicated in real time.

And courts have been pretty clear about lawyers that worked with the White House, that you can't use that privilege to shield the information from the Department of Justice of potential criminal activity.

It is a limited privilege that can be overcome.

CABRERA: So, Congressman, a lot to take through here. I want to get your reaction to the committee, the House committee seeking testimony from former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich.

JOE WALSH, (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: It is significant. I mean, they have got evidence that Newt Gingrich encouraged Donald Trump to lie to the American people about the election results. I think that the committee should interview him.

There are so many other people, Ana, that the committee should interview along these same lines because this is a reminder of how pervasive it was among Republicans all around Trump after the election.

Everyone trying to encourage him to overturn the election results. Ginni Thomas calling state legislators in Wisconsin, Arizona, trying to get them to put up fake electors.

Everybody around him, Ana, was involved in this.

CABRERA: So how remarkable is it then, Congressman, to have a former House speaker and the wife of a sitting Supreme Court justice actively trying to overturn election results and many members, the vast majority you might say, of the Republican Party, elected leaders, just are letting that slide.

WALSH: Well, when it comes to elected leaders, Republican leaders, they are all cowards. They have let everything slide for six to seven years.

But you're right, Newt Gingrich, former speaker of the House, why would he need to do this. And Ginni Thomas, wife of a Supreme Court -- I mean, let's be real. Ginni Thomas, wife of a Supreme Court justice, was an active insurrectionist. There's no other way to put it.

And, Ana, what it does to me, we saw yesterday a retired New York City cop who rioted and stormed the capitol now facing 10 years in prison.

What about Ginni Thomas, what about all of these other people who did whatever they could to try to overturn the election results? That has got to be reckoned with.

Because what they did, Ana, I think is every bit as serious as what the folks who stormed the capitol did.

CABRERA: And yesterday, Trump once again vowed to pardon those January 6th rioters, at least some of them. Let's listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): I met with and I'm financially supporting position that are incredible. And they were in my office actually two days ago. It is very much on my mind. It is a disgrace what they have done to them.

I will look very, very favorably about full pardons if I decide to run and, if I win, I will be looking very, very strongly about pardons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Areva, dangling pardons, apparently paying some legal fees even as several of these defendants in court argue that they attacked the capitol because of Trump.

What do you make of that from a legal perspective?

MARTIN: Well, Ana, what is disgraceful is that Donald Trump is talking about issuing a pardon for someone like this former New York police officer, who assaulted and choked a Washington, D.C., police officer.

Who himself in court apologized to that officer who said he wishes he had not gone to the capitol, that now he knows what he did was wrong and expressed remorse for it.

So for the president of the United States to suggest that if given the opportunity to represent this country again, to serve as our president, would issue a pardon to these violence insurrectionists, these violence thugs -- let's call them what they are -- is really reprehensible.

[13:40:08]

And is evidence enough as to why Donald Trump should never ever be allowed to serve as president again or really serve in any office in the United States government.

He is not fit to serve if he believes that individuals like the ones who attacked our capitol, who tried to overthrow a legitimate election, should be given a pardon.

CABRERA: Got to leave it there today, guys. Areva Martin and Joe Walsh, thank you both. Great to have you here. Happy Friday.

She'll have to win it on her own. Serena and her sister, Venus, losing in the first round on what may be their final doubles match together. But Serena is still alive. Who she faces tonight.

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[13:45:37]

CABRERA: Can she delay her retirement by a few more days? Give the world a few more chances to witness history?

Tonight, Serena Williams competes in her third singles match at the U.S. Open this year. And as we keep saying, it could potentially be her last since she's been hinting at retirement.

CNN national correspondent, Athena Jones, is here now with more.

And, Athena, unlike her match on Wednesday, Serena is actually favored to win tonight?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She is. And that is what is so interesting. People thought of this as a coronation, as a big final second off.

After the first match in the first round that she won, surprising some people, they had a huge ceremony. And then she came back and wins the second round. Now it's the third round. There's still several rounds to go, but really Serena has surprised a lot of tennis watchers.

Now no one expected her to see her playing and moving as she did in all those years that she's dominated this sport. She went pro in the 1990s and has dominated for years. A 23-time grand slam winner.

But turns out she's been able to serve well, move well. So right now, rather than being considered the underdog, she is considered the favorite against an unseated Australia, Ajla Tomljanovic.

And Serena has been purposely vague about whether this really will be her last tournament, but she has strongly hinted that it will be.

And we certainly saw a sad loss last night with she and very Venus. They dominated doubles for years as well.

You know, the team they played against, one of those Czech players is about 17 years old. By the time she was born, in 2004, the Williams sisters that already won six grand slam doubles titles and Olympic gold. So these are people have been in the sport, dominant for a long time.

So very clear Serena is not done yet. We'll see how well she plays tonight. She said the other night that she feels like she's been practicing better. And the more matches under her belt, the better and more confident she feels.

So even in that loss last night, it was a two-set loss, it wasn't a very long, extended game. Maybe that gave her a little bit more practice to make her feel confident about tonight.

But everyone will be watching very, very closely.

CABRERA: Or maybe 40 is like the new 30.

JONES: Maybe.

CABRERA: She is going strong. I love it.

Athena Jones, thanks.

This is the most terrifying image of the day. A man sticks a gun right in the face of Argentina's vice president and pulls the trigger.

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CABRERA: Look at that. The gun went click, but it did not fire. And bodyguards quickly got that attacker under control.

I want to show you another angle. The crowd, the confusion. The gunman. Why his pistol did not go off is a mystery. Police confirm that it was loaded with five bullets.

The would-be killer is now in custody and the vice president was not hurt.

We'll be right back.

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[13:52:29]

CABRERA: So what does President Biden's hometown think of his student loan forgiveness plan?

CNN's Miguel Marquez traveled to find out.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to the farmers market in beautiful downtown Scranton, Pennsylvania.

MIQUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The market here, the real deal.

(SINGING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go. It's called "Pennsylvania Polka."

MARQUEZ: Farmers from the area selling what they grow.

MARQUEZ (on camera): What kind of season you having?

JIM SCHIRG, OWNER, JIM'S FARM PRODUCE: We're having a fair season. It's been dry. It's hurt us a lot on our second crop.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Jim Schirg has farmed here for 50 years. Like many Republicans, he says, if one borrows money --

(on camera): They should pay it back.

SCHIRG: It's a loan. It's a loan.

MARQUEZ (on camera): Right.

SCHIRG: Whether I take a loan to buy the farm, I have to pay it back. If they're taking a loan to get an education, they should pay it back.

(SINGING)

MARQUEZ (voice-over): But some Republicans --

PHILLIP ROSIASKI (ph): Well, it seems like the country right now is moving towards Socialism.

MARQUEZ: Phillip Rosiaski (ph) voted for Trump twice. Doesn't like the direction of the country. But on student loans --

ROSIASKI (ph): Myself, I still have a lot of student loans to take on for my children.

MARQUEZ: Rosiaski (ph) says he is not against student loan forgiveness and will see if he or his kids qualify.

TOM DEPEW, RETIRED BANKER: There has to be some change. And that's what I'm voting for, change.

MARQUEZ: Eighty-four-year-old Tom DePew, a moderate Republican and former banker, says, debts should be repaid, but views student debt differently.

DEPEW: My daughters all went through college. They have student loans. I'd like to see it. It helps them, you know. But all this giveaway and all this free money, it's - somebody's going to pay the price.

MARQUEZ: A sentiment resonating with working class voters. For decades, they've drifted toward the GOP.

From the early 2000s, exit polls indicate Republicans typically want about 60 percent of white non-college educated voters, Democrats about 40 percent.

That split widened for Obama and Trump. Biden halted it, performing a few points better than Clinton in 2016.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're almost in heaven. We're almost in Scranton. Almost.

TRUMP: He left. He abandoned Pennsylvania. He abandoned Scranton.

MARQUEZ: Both parties competing for votes here in battleground PA.

MARQUEZ (on camera): How big a piece of your own personal economy are student loans?

TYLER CHULVICK, PAYING OFF STUDENT LOANS: Oh, that's a huge part of my economy, student loans. I mean, that's why I'm looking at get -- hopefully get taken care of.

[13:54:59:]

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Twenty-eight-year-old Tyler Chulvick graduated in 2018. He works in downtown Scranton at a local pharmacy. He says today he's caring about $36,000 in student debt.

CHULVICK: Starting a business down the road is something that I'd be very interested in. And, I mean, my current debt situation has made that significantly more difficult.

MARQUEZ: Student debt a factor for just about everyone.

MICAH WOODARD, CO-OWNER, LAVISH SCRANTON: If you're saddled with this unbelievable amount of debt, it's going to set you back.

MARQUEZ: Local business owner, Micah Woodard, 40 years old, recently paid off his student loans. His wife is still paying. And their son has just started college and is taking on debt.

WOODARD: And we had that conversation of, if you go to Temple, this is how much debt you're going to have to take on. If you go to Westchester, this is how much debt, this is how much we can help pay, but this is how much debt, you know. So, those were very large parts of the conversation.

MARQUEZ: For many here, the spiraling cost of college outweighing its benefit.

PATRICIA SPALLETTA, RESTAURANT HOSTESS: I have kids. Some of them have student loans. We're not wealthy. And you can pay and pay and never touch the principle. It wasn't that way when I was young.

MARQUEZ: Here in the Electric City, and across the country, the accumulation of student debt touching just about everyone's life.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, Scranton, Pennsylvania.

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CABRERA: And that does it for us today. Hope you have a fun, safe holiday weekend. I'll see you next time. I'm here Monday, same time and place.

The news continues with Alisyn right after this.

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