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President Biden Calls Out MAGA Republicans; Strong Jobs Report; Awaiting Ruling in Mar-a-Lago Case. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 02, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Victor is off today.

We now know more about what the FBI collected from Donald Trump's home on August 8. A few hours ago, that U.S. district judge in Florida unsealed more documents that were inside those 20-plus boxes that the FBI retrieved from Mar-a-Lago, including 18 documents marked top secret, 54 documents marked secret, and 31 marked confidential.

They also found more than 48 empty folders marked classified, no info on where the contents of those folders are. They also collected more than 11,000 non-classified documents that do not belong to Donald Trump. They belong to the government, i.e., the taxpayers.

The inventory describes how the country's most sensitive secrets were tossed in boxes with newspaper clippings and even random items of clothing. Some of these documents are so top secret, so tightly restricted that they are only to be viewed in secure facilities.

And this is just the stuff retrieved on August 8. It does not include the hundreds of other classified files that federal investigators had worked to get back months earlier.

Joining me now is CNN political correspondent Sara Murray, CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, and CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen, who was House Judiciary special counsel in Donald Trump's first impeachment trial.

OK, so, Sara, I just want to give people an example of, for instance, the contents of one of the boxes. We happened to know what was in box 13. So, here's just a few of the things that are in one of these boxes, 62 magazine clippings, newspaper and press articles dating back to 2018, two government documents marked as confidential, one government document with top secret classification markings, one article of clothing, and then 708 government documents and photographs.

By the way, there were also items of clothing in box eight, box nine, box 10, and 17 had several items of clothing. I mean, what -- who's leaving clothes all around the White House, number one? What are these items of clothing? I know these are not as important as top secret stuff. But it just shows the willy-nilly nature of those last days, when apparently they were just throwing everything in boxes. SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely.

You sort of get a sense that someone walked into an office, just threw whatever they found into a box, put the lid on it, and then took it with them and left. And I think that that really gives you a sense of it when we look at this list.

You see repeatedly in these boxes that it mentions that there could be a classified document, there could be non-classified, but other governmental documents, and are the property of the U.S. government, alongside things like magazines, press clippings, articles of clothing.

I think everyone is kind of wondering, what are these articles of clothing and gifts, just because it seems so random for it to be included, but it does get to how this stuff was being stored at Mar-a- Lago, obviously not up to the standards that we expect for storing classified, sensitive information.

CAMEROTA: Norm, why do you think that the judge who's deciding on this special master, ordered this stuff to be unsealed for public consumption today?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Alisyn, like the other judge in Florida who supervised, authorize the search warrant, Judge Reinhart, the courts do want to attempt to balance the need to protect the highly classified information that is cataloged here with the need to inform the public.

But you can see the urgency of advising on this kind of thing. We know, for example -- what leaped out of me, besides the large volume of classified documents, we're talking about Trump's office with box item -- boxes -- or items one, two, three, and four, and the empty folders, Alisyn, over 60 empty folders labeled -- one of which was labeled classified, others, 28 labeled return to the staff secretary.

So where did the contents of those folders go? That's the kind of thing that the public and the press needs to know about so we can ask these hard questions. She did Donald Trump no favor by revealing that there are 43 empty folders with classified banners in item two.

[14:05:03]

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Evan, will we know where the contents of those empty folders ended up? And let me just also spell out for everyone this is the tally now, OK, of what we know, given August 8, as well as what was collected in June, as well as what was collected months earlier. So we're up to 320 classified documents, 103 confidential, 162 secret, 60 top secret.

None of those are obviously supposed to be in his home. So, your thoughts?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I think the answer for -- to the question you're asking, I think, is the one that the FBI is actually trying to get to the bottom of, right?

That's part of what they're investigating. And I will read you just a part of what they say in the court filing, in -- I'm sorry -- in the one of the documents that they released today.

The prosecutors say: 'All evidence pertaining to the seized items, including, but not limited to the nature and manner in which they were stored, as well as the evidence with respect to particular documents or items of interest, will inform the government's investigation."

Alisyn, this -- I hate to make light of it, but it's like an episode of the TV show "Hoarders," right? They're talking about the former president of the United States, and he has all of these aides and people around him to help him pack up his boxes as he was leaving, unwillingly leaving the White House to go back to Mar-a-Lago.

And the GSA transported the boxes, but it was up to him and his team to decide what goes in him. So the question of how -- even after the June meeting, right, by the way, where they're told to make sure they secure all classified items in the storage room, according to this document, according to this list, seven boxes were still found and containers were still found in his office, and 27 documents with classification markings, seven that were top secret.

So that is just -- it's hard to explain. And I don't know that the president's team has even tried to try to explain that.

CAMEROTA: Sara, we -- the FBI put out that picture that we have now all seen about, obviously, this is not how they found it, as President Trump has suggested. We know it wasn't strewn around on the ground, but it's not much better, in each box, all of these top secret -- SCI is the highest classification, and this secret compartmented information, all in the box, as you can see with the "TIME" magazine covers there.

And so this is why the judge is taking her time, though we expect it could come at any moment, trying to decide if a special master is needed, because who can sift through all of this stuff?

MURRAY: Yes, I think that that is right.

Obviously, she was making the point in court yesterday, what's the harm in having this special master go through this? The Justice Department has said, you're going to delay our criminal investigation. You could potentially delay national security assessment of this.

But it is clear that the judge has been leaning more towards a special master. We will see what she ultimately decides.

But I do want to go back to what Evan said, that we just still have not heard anything approaching an explanation from the Trump team about why after, all of this, why, after a year of wrangling with the Archives, why, after getting the subpoena and signing a document saying, we have handed over everything with a classification marking, why was the FBI still able to find so much more when they arrived, not just in the storage room, but in the former president's office and these documents with all of these classification markings?

We haven't seen the Trump team even attempt to answer that question.

CAMEROTA: Evan, tell us what's happening with another investigation into Donald Trump.

PEREZ: Right.

CAMEROTA: Two of his former White House counsel attorneys went before a federal grand jury today. So what happened?

PEREZ: Yes, Alisyn.

So we were there earlier today. Pat Cipollone came in this morning. Patrick Philbin, the deputy former White House counsel, came in this afternoon. And they're coming before this grand jury. This is the grand jury that is specifically looking at crimes that go beyond the riot, right, before -- beyond the people who finally attacked the Capitol.

These are the people who -- around the president and the president himself who are trying to organize this scheme to have fake electors that would try to keep the former president in office, even though he had lost the election. And so they were answering questions.

We know that, for weeks, they have been going back and forth with the Justice Department to try to figure out what questions they can answer, because, remember, the former president is claiming that there's some executive privilege here.

And so it's not clear. We don't know what questions they did answer today. But that process, by the way, is still ongoing. Philbin is still in there at this hour, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Norm, I also want to ask you about how the January 6 Committee is interested in talking to Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, Ginni Thomas. They have e-mails that apparently show her reaching out to Wisconsin lawmakers, as well as Arizona officials, to try to overturn the 2020 election results.

[14:10:06]

And, Norm, what's the thinking here, in terms of whether Justice Thomas can be impartial on issues surrounding January 6? Is the feeling that no one's responsible for their spouse or that they cannot be impartial when it comes to their spouse?

EISEN: Alisyn, it's not only that Ginni Thomas was in touch with Arizona. Now we know Wisconsin. She also was in direct touch with the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, who's in the middle of all these investigations .

In any other court in the land, if the wife of a judge were -- or husband of a judge were involved in a matter coming before the court, the judge would have to step away. The Supreme Court leaves that decision to the individual justices. So I think that it was an ethics violation for Clarence Thomas to

previously rule on issues relating to these investigations, including in the Trump v. Thompson case, revelation of documents that bear upon this investigation. He should step away.

But we know he probably won't. And, unfortunately, the decision is up to him. That makes no sense at all.

CAMEROTA: Sara Murray, Evan Perez, Ambassador Norm Eisen, thank you all. And, obviously, we will come back to if and when we hear from the judge.

Meanwhile, hiring in the U.S. is beginning to slow, but today's jobs report signals the overall market remains strong; 315,000 jobs were added in August, slightly beating economists expectations, but that was far below July's blockbuster report. The unemployment rate ticked up to 3.7 percent.

President Biden celebrated the numbers this morning and highlighted the positive signs for the U.S. economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The bottom line is, jobs are up, wages are up, people are back to work, and we're seeing some signs that inflation may be -- may be -- I'm not going to overpromise you - may be beginning to ease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon is here, as well as business journalist Marc Stewart.

OK, great to see both of you.

So are these jobs, numbers good news or bad news, Rahel?

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the word you're hearing today is Goldilocks, not too hot, not too cold.

But I would say this was a good report. And there was something good in this for a lot of people. If you are a job seeker at home, if you're just someone sitting at home, there are so lots of jobs out there, lots of opportunities, 1.9 open jobs for every one person looking. So that's good; 315,000 is still really strong, robust job growth.

If you are the Fed and the implications for inflation, the Fed is also seeing some things in this report that were strong. Labor force participation, the percentage of working Americans that are actively participating, that grew, which we had been wanting to see and waiting to see, so more people coming off the sidelines joining the work force.

Also, wages started to moderate. So both of those things are really positive developments for the Fed. So, not too hot, not too cold, just sort of right in the middle there.

CAMEROTA: And so, Marc, how does this affect the Fed's next decision on interest rates?

MARC STEWART, BUSINESS JOURNALIST: Everyone is looking to the Fed, because the Fed really holds the key to determining how inflation will progress or hopefully decline.

The thought been is that, if we had jobs that were not too hot, not too cold, it would perhaps give the Fed a little bit of license to not be as aggressive as it has been publicly saying. We just heard from Fed chair, Jerome Powell, say that these interest rate hikes are going to continue, they're going to be aggressive because they are needed.

So, perhaps because we have an economy that is not too hot. It'll perhaps temper these interest rate hikes. And interest rate hikes are important, because it determines how much you pay for your credit card bills, how much you pay for your home mortgage, as well as auto loans.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at where inflation is.

So the latest numbers that we have in terms of -- well, I'm sort of interested in gas prices. Maybe we can pull that up.

SOLOMON: For good reason, yes.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

So, today, they're at $3.81. That's down from yesterday. Every single day, it has gone down. Look at a month ago. It was at $4.19. It's getting closer to where it was a year ago, $3.18.

Has inflation peaked, Rahel?

SOLOMON: Well, I think there's a reason. You heard President Biden there say maybe, maybe, really trying to couch that, it appears that it had peaked.

But, of course, the economist had been wrong on this inflation story to begin with, right? I think, if energy continues to decline, that will certainly help. But energy is volatile. That could clearly move in a different direction. And we're going to be talking about very different inflation reports.

I think, in some ways, we're still not seeing signs of slowing. Shelter prices, which is huge, those continue to rise at a historic clip. So, energy prices will help, but we're still seeing under-the- hood inflation rise in categories that people are very sensitive to.

CAMEROTA: What's your take, Marc?

[14:15:01]

STEWART: I think that there are just a lot of unknowns that are still out there, especially in the energy sector. There has been reporting today that Europe will likely cap prices for

Russian oil. That could have an impact. We don't know what is happening in other parts of the world. Right now, Europe is dealing with record high inflation. If that becomes an issue there, that could impact things here. Energy is not immune from all of that.

So my takeaway is, let's see how the world evolves, because that's the unknown.

CAMEROTA: OK, Marc, Rahel, thank you both very much.

STEWART: You bet.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you.

STEWART: Sure.

CAMEROTA: OK, President Biden calls on Americans to defend democracy against the extremism within the Republican Party, he says. Up next, how Donald Trump's supporters are reacting.

Plus, the January 6 Committee wants to talk to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich about why he tried to drum up outrage in the heated weeks before January 6.

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[14:20:22]

CAMEROTA: Just hours after delivering a fiery speech calling out MAGA Republicans, as he refers to them, President Biden is clarifying who he was targeting in his prime-time speech.

Moments ago, the president saying he was not calling all Trump supporters a threat to democracy, just those who call for violence and attempt to overturn elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I don't consider any Trump supporter a threat to the country. I do think anyone who calls for the use of violence, fails to condemn violence when it's used, refuses to acknowledge when an election has been won, insists upon changing the way in which we rule and count votes, that is a threat to democracy.

When people voted for Donald Trump, and support him now, they weren't voting for attacking the Capitol. They weren't voting for overruling an election. They were voting for a philosophy he put forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, on Thursday, just as President Biden was calling the MAGA movement a threat to democracy, Donald Trump was bragging about being in touch with and financing, he said, some of the rioters from the January 6 attack on the Capitol and how he plans to pardon them. With us now to talk about all of this, we have Karen Finney, a CNN

political commentator and a former senior adviser and spokesperson for Hillary 2016 presidential campaign. And S.E. Cupp is also a CNN political commentator.

Ladies, great to see you.

We will get to what President Trump said in that radio interview yesterday, which I do want your thoughts on.

But first, Karen, let's talk about what President Biden said last night. As you know, in his prime-time speech, he was trying to draw a distinction between MAGA Republicans, as he calls them, and Republicans. And here's the difference, he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution. They do not believe in the rule of law. They do not recognize the will of the people.

They refuse to accept the results of a free election. And they're working right now, as I speak, in state after state to give power to decide elections in America to partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers to undermine democracy itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Karen, who was his intended audience for last night's prime-time speech?

Because don't most Democrats already feel that way and agree with him. Is he reaching out to independents there, or who?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's reaching out, frankly, to all Americans, especially, though, to moderate Republicans and independents.

Look, for some time, Alisyn, we have seen polling internally on the Democratic side showing that the split within the Republican Party, that this MAGA Republican faction, that there are Republicans who really don't feel a part of that, and really want to separate themselves out and want people to know they're not part of that.

So I think the president was trying to give voice to that, as well as to highlight that there are shared values for those of us who love our democracy, believe in the Constitution, and don't believe that violence is the answer.

I think he was also trying to sort of create that delineation within his speech, and really speaking, frankly, also to Democrats, as well as those moderates and independents.

CAMEROTA: S.E., as you know, there are many Republicans, some of them our friends here at CNN, who feel offended and defensive about this rhetoric coming from the president because they feel like they're being lumped in with some of the so-called MAGA Republicans.

How does it -- how did it sound to your ear?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Joe Biden was real clear in drawing those distinctions.

I think if folks are uncomfortable being lumped in -- and I get this anytime I mention I'm a conservative. If you're uncomfortable being lumped in with MAGA Republicans, it's because Trump has so effectively co-opted the party, it's hard to see a distinction.

That's the fault of Republicans for not drawing that distinction, for not saying, we don't stand for violence, we don't stand for calling elections rigged and breaking democracy and book bans and all the things that Republicans are doing.

That lack of distinction exists because of Republicans, not because of the language that Joe Biden used. I think he was real clear in exactly who he was talking to. And I think -- just to Karen's point, I think she's right, but just to drill down a little further, I think he was speaking to folks who are thinking about staying home, who might be Democrats, might be Republicans, might be independents.

[14:25:10]

And I think the subtext of his speech was like, you might be disappointed in me. You might be disappointed in the Democratic Party. You might not feel like we have gotten enough done or done the things you wanted, but these are the stakes. And they're bigger than me and the party, and that's why you need to vote.

CAMEROTA: So I do want to play for you and for our viewers what president -- former President Trump said on this radio show yesterday, because it was jaw-dropping, I think.

So, at the same time that President Biden is making these distinctions, President Trump, as he often likes to do, was doubling down on his support for the insurrectionists. So, on this radio show, he talked -- he -- it sounded like he said, not only will he pardon them if he becomes president again, but he's offering financial support to them.

So listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I met with and I'm financially supporting people that are incredible. And they were in my office actually two days ago. It's very much on my mind.

It's a disgrace what they have done to them. I will look very, very favorably about full pardons. If I decide to run and if I win, I will be looking very, very strongly about pardons.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Karen, I don't even know how to interpret any of that. Isn't this what the January 6 Committee is looking into...

FINNEY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... who was financing them and whether President Trump was in touch with them?

FINNEY: Yes. Yes, yes, and yes.

I mean, that is shameful. And at that very moment, he was reaffirming exactly what President Biden was talking about. And I think the other piece we have to acknowledge here is that it is a real shock to the system for this country to be realizing -- much of it, I think we suspected throughout the Trump years.

But, throughout the summer, what we heard from the January 6 Committee, what we're learning now from Mar-a-Lago, the documents that have been seized, what we will no doubt hear and see over the next several weeks and months, both from January 6 and about more of what was seized at Mar-a-Lago, this is a shock to the system to some degree.

And I think the other part of what Biden is acknowledging, because we're going to hear a lot more of this, is, we can do something about it, because he said that very directly. We can vote. We don't have to just stand here and let Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans take down our democracy. We have to get out there, every single one of us, and vote.

CAMEROTA: S.E., while I have you, I also wanted to ask you about what the January 6 Committee is doing in terms of asking for the cooperation of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

I know you worked with him. You know him. And it turns out that he was trying to drum up outrage in the days before January 6.They have these e-mails from him.

And here's -- I will put one to you: "The goal is to arouse the country's anger through new verifiable information the American public has never seen before. If we inform the American people in a way they find convincing, and it arouses their anger, they will then bring pressure on legislators and governors."

I have heard this before from Newt Gingrich that he believes that, if you can fire up people, get them to feel a certain way, frankly, facts be damned, that that's what helps win.

CUPP: Look, whatever folks think of Newt, I have known him a long time. We shared an office at CNN.

He's one of the smartest people I have ever met. And so this is deeply disappointing, because he knows better than to call claims of rigged elections verifiable facts. They're not. He knows better. And he still pushed this and actively tried to stoke people's anger and resentment and fear, based on nothing, on nonsense.

And that's wrong. That's an abuse of your position and your power and your platform. And it's just deeply cynical and manipulative. And so I was really -- I was disappointed to hear that from someone I like.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I understand.

And, by the way, he's not saying facts. He never mentions facts in here.

CUPP: Right.

CAMEROTA: I mean, his language is so careful and intentional, and basically, if we can present them with some sort of new info that they haven't heard yet, then they will get angry.

Karen Finney, S.E. Cupp, thank you both very much. Great to get your take.

FINNEY: Thanks.

CUPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: This weekend is another major test for airlines how they're handling the Labor Day rush.

And more than 45 million people on the West Coast are now under heat alerts. What they're doing about it.

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