Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Unsealed Today: Breakdown Of Gov't Items Found At Mar-A-Lago; Biden: "MAGA Extremism" Threatens "Very Foundation Of Our Republic"; Big Discounts Expected For Holiday Shoppers This Year. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 02, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:05]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota. We now know more about what the FBI collected from Donald Trump's home on August 8th. A few hours ago that U.S. district judge in Florida unsealed the full inventory list of what was found inside those 30 plus boxes that the FBI collected from Mar-A- Lago nearly a month ago, including 18 documents marked top secret, 54 documents marked secret and 31 marked confidential.

Investigators also found more than 48 empty folders marked classified. No info on where or what the contents of those folders are. Also retrieved more than 11,000 non-classified government documents that of course do not belong to Donald Trump, they belong to the taxpayers.

The inventory also showed how the country's most sensitive secrets were tossed in with non-classified items like newspaper clippings, even items of clothing. Some of these documents are so tightly restricted they are only to be viewed in secured facilities.

Joining us now with more, we have CNN Correspondent Kara Scannell; CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem and former federal prosecutor Michael Moore.

Okay. So Kara, just the gross sloppiness of these boxes is obviously telling of the last days of this chaotic administration and hearing that there were just empty envelopes and top secret documents, items of clothing, a lot of them by the way, there are many boxes that have items of clothing. I don't know why so many clothes were strewn around the White House. So what does this tell us about what the judge is doing and what we need to know?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Right. So this is the inventory that the federal prosecutors put together, and the judge unsealed it today and with no one objected to it, not the government, not Trump's team. But it really does give a sense of these final days and the chaos of how these records were kept. And as you said, many of these top secret, they need to be held and maintained in a very secure way, which is the issue with this whole investigation.

I mean, if we look at one box alone, box number two, which was taken from the former president's office says there were 99 newspaper or press articles; two documents marked confidential; 15 marked secret; seven marked top secret and then a bunch of other things, including these 43 empty folders marked classified and 28 empty folders marked return to Staff Secretary/Military Aide.

Now, we don't know why these folders are empty. We don't know what the documents were removed and are part of this cache. There's still raises some questions here even with this, but, yes, a number of them show that there was just, there was clothing in records, there were newspaper clippings. It's just not the secure thing.

And I mean, another key point here is that these 11,000, in addition, these non-classified government records, this is all after the government - the president's lawyers had told the government that they had turned over everything that they had. So we're clearly learning a lot more was there.

CAMEROTA: None of this was his to keep, none of it. Something else interesting just happened, Michael, and that is that Trump's former Attorney General, Bill Barr, just went on FNC and talked about all of this, so let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: What people are missing is that all the other documents taken, even if they claim to be executive privilege, either belong to the government because they're government records, even if they're classified, even if they're subject to executive privilege, they still belong to the government and go to the archives.

Let me just say, I think the driver on this from the beginning was loads of classified information sitting in Mar-A-Lago. People say this was unprecedented, but it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay? And how long is the government going to try to get that back, they jawboned for a year, they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken. They then went and got a subpoena. They were deceived on that, they feel. And the record - the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around and so how long did they wait?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Michael, your thoughts?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Well, I mean, you'll forgive me if I don't accept him as the voice of legal on moral authority. I've watched how he behaved during his time as attorney general and the things that went on during that.

So aside from his comments, it's not good to see this kind of information down there. It's not good to have classified information. You're completely correct that these documents belong to the American people. I think that, I've been one (inaudible) let's step back a little bit and I do that about these folders. Those folders are sometimes were used - it honestly looks like that people packing those boxes, whoever went through throwing clothes and empty folders or whatever it was in there and all these newspaper clippings that they were bad as disorganized as his legal challenge has been thus far to the search.

[15:05:04]

So I - it's not a good picture for Trump, there's no possible way to spin it than it is. At the same time, it's a sign of complete disorganization and hopefully no damage to the national security. We don't know yet, but that's - we'll see.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's where Juliette comes in. I mean, the clothing items are sort of a curiosity. I'm not sure why there were so many clothes dumped into these boxes, but that's an aside. The real trouble is the top secret and sensitive compartmented information that was thrown in willy-nilly. Are you concerned, Juliette, about the empty folders that are in there that are marked classified and confidential and there's nothing in them?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Exactly. I think that's exactly right. When I read - first read the story about what was disclosed, it was the emptiness that ends up being the story rather than the substances. And the reason why is because these documents and these classification levels are often viewed in secure rooms or secure areas, not simply because sources and methods are being are being disclosed, it's because you want to ensure that they aren't duplicated or lost and so there's a sort of tight control over the document itself.

So now we have folders that are empty. Have they been xeroxed, have they been - has picture been taken of them, we don't know, and that gets to the second point.

One of the things that's clear about this issue, Mar-A-Lago, and why you're getting people like Bill Barr sort of speaking out, is it's really simple, right? I mean, it really is. All your - all the Russia stuff and everything else going on with Trump, this one is simple, he had documents he shouldn't have and then here's where it gets tricky for Trump, once told he has documents he didn't - he shouldn't have, even if he was careless, even if that's the explanation rather than something more nefarious, right? Even it was just being careless, he did not take that opportunity, nor did his lawyers to then become more careful and hand those documents over.

And so I think while we focus on the picture, I actually think the obstruction charges are going to end up being really relevant because they show they show Trump's team's unwillingness to be more careful, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, of course. But even if it - so that if it was carelessness, why did - why all this hiding and, in fact, lying, as the Department of Justice says, as regards these documents, so this story obviously continues beyond just the picture and the clothing and everything else.

CAMEROTA: Yes, those are good questions. And, Michael, it's interesting to hear, I think, from Bill Barr, not so much because he's necessarily the moral authority on it, but somebody slipped him some truth serum, because he's now just saying all of this out loud. Another thing he said is he thinks that the special master request is a red herring. Do you think that the fact that the judge has released this inventory, do you think that makes it more or less likely that she's going to agree to a special master to now look through everything?

MOORE: I was really struck by the number of documents that were not classified, and the photos, and documents, there's a section down there as thousands and thousands of those. There's no harm for her to issue a special or grant their request for special measure. There's nothing - it doesn't really hurt if she does, it doesn't really help if she does, it's just sort of a normal thing that happen (inaudible) ...

CAMEROTA: But doesn't it slow it down, Michael? I mean, if she does, doesn't it just slow down the investigation?

MOORE: Not enough and I think that that kind of falls on deaf ears when the government already knew that there were documents there in February and then they wait to execute a search warrant six months later. So I don't think they can come in as, judge, we can't even take a week for somebody to look at this, because this slows us down. And I would say, well, what were you doing between February and August as you were kind of trying to make nice and get the documents. So I don't think it really has a - it has a significant impact here.

Again, this - there's no way to make this look good. I mean, he's got these documents and there's - they're there. But he's done - he has done what he does well and that is to put a buffer between him and the - and criminal charges. I mean, does anybody actually believe that he walked around the Oval Office with boxes and put all this stuff in himself. Notice that all the decorations and all the communications and all the correspondence there's a buffer between him and the government, the same thing he did when he had Michael Cohen.

He put somebody in the middle that he can then turn around and blame and he's been a master at that. It doesn't always work, but he's done that and I see that. Hearing these lawyers that are making these certifications, they need to be thinking about 1,001 violations, which is a federal crime, and they need to be lawyering up because if they've come in and made false statements to investigators, then we've got a problem.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We'll see who is held accountable for all of these. Kara Scannell, Juliette Kayyem, Michael Moore, thank you all very much for your perspective.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump is now publicly dangling pardons for the Capitol insurrectionists.

[15:10:00]

He floated this idea on the same day the President Biden denounced those very people in a fiery speech aimed at what he calls MAGA Republicans. President Biden warned America that this extreme movement is a direct threat he says to democracy and the soul of the nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represented representative extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. The Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump.

MAGA Republicans made their choice. They live not in the light of truth, but in the shadow of lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in Paul Begala. He's a CNN Political Commentator and a Democratic strategist. We also have with us Gavin Smith. He's a former Trump campaign aide. Gentlemen, great to have you both here.

Paul, about that speech last night, who do you think that President Biden was - who was his intended audience? Who's he trying to sway with those words?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it was - first of all, it was fantastic. It was masterful. It was wonderful. And so it's inspiring the base, right? I'm part of his base. At the same time, it's creating a permission structure for moderate Republicans in which there are a great many to come over and say, well, look, Biden's maybe not the greatest, but we need to put a brake on these extremists.

And so I thought it was very effective that way. He was helped, though, by the response from Republican politicians. When the Republican politicians then embrace those extremists, instead of saying, yes, there are faction and they're kind of nutty. When they embrace them, it kind of proves Biden's point.

So I think that what he's trying to do and what he's succeeding at doing is creating a permission structure for a lot of independents and Republicans to say, I'm not one of them. I'm not one of those MAGA extremists.

CAMEROTA: Gavin, how did you hear it?

GAVIN SMITH, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN AIDE: Yes. I have to agree with my Democratic friends there. The President, put as well, that the Republican Party is dominated by Trumpism these days. But a new poll that just came out from morning Consult just a couple of weeks ago showed that 53 percent of Republicans don't want Donald Trump to be the nominee in 2024.

So is the Republican Party dominated by Donald Trump? I'm not really convinced. I think more or less, the moderate Republicans, my Democratic friend was just talking about, I think they're scared to speak up, because we've seen the power that Donald Trump has had and what he's - and the havoc that he's wreaked around the country. CAMEROTA: Gavin, the problem is that I think the latest polling

suggests that 65 percent of Republicans believe that Joe Biden didn't legitimately win the presidency. Donald Trump's lies about it have been so potent that they've actually taken hold. And I just want to bounce this off of you, because I'm still trying to make sense of what former President Trump was saying yesterday on this radio show. He was basically asked by this radio host, conservative radio host, what are we going to do about all of these people who are in jail because of January 6 and he says that he is financially supporting them, and will pardon them. So here's his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I met with and I'm financially supporting people that are incredible. And they were in my office actually two days ago. It's very much on my mind. It's a disgrace what they've done to them.

I will look very, very favorably about full pardons. If I decide to run, and if I win, I will be looking very, very strongly about pardons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Gavin, I mean, 114 police officers were injured that day, some of them grievously. What's Donald Trump talking about?

SMITH: I have a lot to say about this issue. First and foremost, I'll just be pretty blunt and say this is crazy. I mean, this issue has been tried in dozens of courts across the nation, many of which are presided over by Donald Trump appointed judges and it's lost every single time.

So to Donald Trump and his far-right MAGA extremists that continue to tout this election conspiracy theory, I'd say to them, show me the proof because I haven't seen any in the last two years. I mean, we're two years out from this and all while Democrats are talking about policy and legislative wins, we're still talking about a stolen election that simply didn't happen.

CAMEROTA: Paul, is this - is what we heard from Donald Trump there as jaw-dropping as I think it is? I mean, the January 6 Committee is trying to figure out who's financing them, if President Trump had any contact with them, he's saying that yes, he's currently having contact with them and happy to finance them and wants to pardon them.

BEGALA: Right. And again, why do Republican politicians then - they hear Joe Biden saying MAGA extremists are a threat to democracy. Then they see or hear Donald Trump saying I would look very strongly pardoning the insurrectionists, who caused bloodshed in our capitol and tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power. And they speak out against Biden, but not against Trump. I think it tells you a lot about the Republicans. It is shocking what Mr. Trump has said. It's very hard for Donald Trump to shock me, news from nowhere, I'm not a big fan.

[15:15:02]

But this is really quite something when a former president who clearly is going to run again and says if I get in there again, I'm going to pardon the people who breached the Capitol, who occupied the Senate floor, who had a noose and said hang Mike Pence, who had some of them, a few of them, murderous intent. It's just - it's really shocking. It's really unbelievable.

CAMEROTA: Gavin, you were a former Trump campaign aide, are you sure that Donald Trump's going to run again?

SMITH: Look, I'm actually not convinced. Donald Trump doesn't like to lose and whether or not he'll say that he lost the 2020 election, Donald Trump in private knows that he lost that election. He lost it fair and square to Joe Biden. And does Donald Trump want to do that in 2024 again, he doesn't. Donald Trump has seen his power across the nation to help election conspiracy theorist or what have you, he's been able to help those people get elected, so why not come in, in 2024, use his power, play kingmaker or whatever he wants to call it, help someone get elected and save his reputation so that he doesn't have to endure another public defeat again.

CAMEROTA: Paul Begala, Gavin Smith, thanks so much. Great to talk to both of you.

BEGALA: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: The unemployment rate ticked up slightly in August, but that could be good news as far as what the Fed will do next. And this weekend marks the unofficial start of fall, say it ain't so. Okay, the - I'm supposed to say right now the holiday season is just around the corner. I just feel that's premature, okay? But shoppers are going to be seeing bigger discounts than previous years and we'll tell you about those deals ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:56]

CAMEROTA: President Biden celebrated the August jobs report this morning, 315,000 jobs were added last month that slightly beats economists' expectations but it's far below July's blockbuster report. The President argued these numbers underscored the strength of the U.S. economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Bottom line is jobs are up, wages are up, people are back to work and we're seeing some signs that inflation may be, may be - I'm not over-promising - may be beginning to ease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Okay. Let's discuss some CNN Economics and Political Commentator Catherine Rampell. She's also an Opinion Columnist at The Washington Post. Catherine, great to have you here. So is this good news or bad news for the economy?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: I think this was a very good report. It was sort of a Goldilocks report in the sense that it wasn't too strong. It wasn't such gangbusters hiring that the Fed might continue to think that the economy is overheating. It wasn't so weak that we're worried about a recession. It was strong solid job growth and I think it's what the Fed wanted to see.

CAMEROTA: So is the Fed rethinking their plan now on rate hikes?

RAMPELL: I think the way that the Fed might interpret a report like this is that they don't have to slam on the brakes quite as hard as some people fear that they might have to, just a few months ago, in the sense that more people join the labor force that should take some pressure off of inflation, for example. Again, the overall hiring numbers were quite good, so yes, I think this is good news for the Fed. I think this means that they're more likely to raise at only a half a percentage point rather than three quarters of a percentage point, which was very unusual in what they had to do the last two meetings.

CAMEROTA: President Biden sees signs as good. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy sees signs as ...

RAMPELL: What a surprise.

CAMEROTA: ... signs as bad. Here's his rationale.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Our economy is now in a recession. Here are the facts. Fact, our supply chains are collapsing. Our transportation system is completely dysfunctional. Air travel has never been more unpredictable. Fact, families go to the grocery store to find empty shelves. If you can find what you need at the store, it costs more, a lot more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's fact check some of his facts. What did you - what do you take away from it?

RAMPELL: I think it's very unlikely we are in a recession right now. That doesn't mean we won't be in a recession next year, particularly if the Fed continues to raise rates as they will. Inflation is not where we want it to be, that's absolutely true. It looks a little bit better than it has earlier this year, but it's still not where we want it to be.

So Americans are reasonably unhappy with the price of goods right now and services and McCarthy is speaking to all of that. But we're not on the verge of collapse yet, hopefully we won't be next year. And again, if we continue to get jobs reports like the one that we got today, and the Fed continues to be able to raise rates, but not slam on the brakes, I think we are set up for a better - so called soft landing than I had expected anyway, a few months ago. CAMEROTA: Okay. Catherine Rampell, have a great weekend.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here.

Okay. Good news for shoppers, companies like Best Buy, the GAP, Wal- Mart say that more discounts can be expected this holiday season compared to years past. CNN's Nathaniel Meyersohn joins us now. I don't even like using the term holiday season this early, but I'm going to. So what are the discounts we can expect?

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN REPORTER: Right, we're not even in labor - we're not even at Labor Day ...

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

MEYERSOHN: ... yet, but retailers are getting ready and it's shaping up to be a really strong holiday season in terms of discounts. We can expect discounts on toys, clothing, sporting goods, electronics, televisions, consumers have a lot to look forward to this holiday.

[15:25:01]

CAMEROTA: So we just heard Kevin McCarthy say there's all sorts of empty store shelves out there. Is that still true? And I know that was true during the pandemic with all of the supply chain issues? Is it still true?

MEYERSOHN: Well, companies right now the major retailers like Wal- Mart, GAP, Kohl's, Target, they're saying that they have too much inventory right now, particularly for some of the goods we just mentioned, clothing. So I think that companies right now they have too much stuff. That's a result of consumers pulling back some of their discretionary spending to try to pay for groceries and gas.

You have the Best Buy CEO, Corie Barry, this week. She said that consumers are really searching for deals. They're looking for sale events. You have the Ulta Beauty CEO saying that it should be a really strong holiday season in terms of discounts.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Nathaniel Meyersohn, thank you very much. I guess I'll start thinking about the holiday season. I really appreciate you being here.

Okay. So as the U.S. nuclear watchdog continues inspecting the Zaporizhzhia plant, Ukraine says it now has a second reactor that's working again after it was disconnected during the shelling, so we're live on the ground with the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)