Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Stabbing Spree in Canada; Biden Hits Campaign Trail; Special Master Granted in Mar-a-Lago Case. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 05, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:47]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Happy Labor Day. Victor is off today.

A legal win today for former President Trump, a federal judge granting his request to appoint a special master to review the materials, including classified and top secret government documents, that the FBI seized from Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.

Trump's lawyers and Justice Department prosecutors now have until Friday to submit a list of potential candidates to be named as that special master.

Let's bring in CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez.

Evan, just walk us through the ruling. What will this special master now do?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, the special master that the judge says needs to be appointed is going to be responsible for looking at everything, everything that was taken from the search of Mar-a-Lago that happened a month ago.

One of the things that she talks about in her ruling, Judge Aileen Cannon, she says that essentially this person, this special master, that the Justice Department and the Trump team need to come together and find this person, is going to be essentially looking at all of the things while the Justice Department is going to have to pause its investigation, essentially, not being able to use any of these documents.

She does say that the review that is being done by the intelligence community, there's a risk assessment that's being done, that that can continue. She had indicated that that -- that she was leading in that direction.

A couple of things that come to -- that jumped out from the ruling that she just issued. She says that she got a report from the Justice Department indicating their filter team, their privilege review team had separated a number of documents. She said that there was two instances in which documents from -- that had been separated were provided to the investigative team.

So that's one of the reasons why she feels there needs to be a third party to look over this. She also said that the FBI obtained medical and accounting information related to taxes from the former president as part of its search. Again, that kind of influenced her ruling here today.

Alisyn, it's a very unusual situation, because, obviously, this is not normal to do a special master, especially three weeks after the FBI has already gone through all of the documents, and has filtered out what they say are things that could be an attorney-client privileged.

CAMEROTA: So is the point of the special master now to just look for things related to executive privilege, or also, as you're saying, some of these personal items/

PEREZ: Well, that's the thing.

I mean, the weird thing about this is that she is saying -- she's saying that, even though it's very likely that the former president will not be able to win on this question of executive privilege, she's saying it still is valid for him to be raising it.

And so that's one of the reasons why this special master is going to be looking for items or potential documents that could be covered by executive privilege. What that looks like, none of us knows, because we have never kind of -- we have never been here before in something like this.

I will tell you, just one part of this ruling that I think you might want to see what where she's -- her mind is, she says: "As a function of plaintiff's former position as president of the United States, the stigma associated with the subject seizure is in a league of its own."

She seems to be creating, Alisyn, with her ruling here a special category of citizen who cannot be stigmatized by the police coming to their home, obviously. So it's going to be interesting to see what the Justice Department does.

They haven't said whether they're going to appeal. They say they're reviewing this ruling at this point, Alisyn. We will see what the decision is in the coming days.

CAMEROTA: OK, Evan, stay with us if you would, because we want to bring in now former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

OK, so, Renato, what's the impact of this decision? And what do you think of the judge's decision?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I have to say, Alisyn, it is very much unsupported by the case law and by the facts of the situation.

And if you take it at its face, it's a pretty massive shift to the defense. It's something that I will probably be citing on behalf of clients in future cases.

[14:05:05] That said, I think it is certainly the judge bending over backwards to try to create any -- undercut any argument that there's an unfairness towards the former president.

And I think it puts the Justice Department in a bit of a tough spot. I don't think this has a massive impact on their investigation in the long run. But it definitely slows things down. She does have an order, basically, temporarily halting any review of these documents.

And so they really have a choice here. If they care more just about this individual case, if I was the prosecutor working on this case, I'd say, let's just trudge forward with the special master, get through this as quickly as we can, so we can move on, because I don't think the special master is actually going to do anything that undercuts their investigation. Maybe there will be a slight delay.

But the downside of that is...

CAMEROTA: But when you say a slight delay, I mean, Renato, how long? It would delay months?

MARIOTTI: I would say, depending on the special master, it could just be weeks, weeks or months, but, I mean, let's just say there's some things they could do in the meantime, investigative steps they could take in the meantime, otherwise, that don't require use of the documents, interviews, and so on.

There are certain things they weren't going to do during the election season anyway. And I would just essentially say, if I was purely focused on this investigation only, I would say, let's just eat the -- well, let's say it's eight weeks. Let's say it's 12 weeks. Whatever it is, let's just eat that loss and go forward with this, instead of appealing, which could create its own delays, and potentially a bad ruling on appeal that has an impact on the long run for us.

However, I think the problem for the Justice Department is, if they let this ruling stand and they don't appeal, there's some very questionable -- and, frankly, the judge kind of signal in our own ruling she wasn't quite sure about Trump's executive privilege arguments, but she was giving him every benefit of the doubt here.

I think that they have to be concerned about the precedential value of this, not just for defense lawyers like me who are going to want to use this in every other criminal case, which obviously would have an impact for the Justice Department in other cases, but also, I think, the precedential value of this for executive privilege purposes.

CAMEROTA: So, Evan, do you know if the DOJ is inclined to appeal, or just, as Renato says, suck it up and just take these however many months this is going to take now for the special master?

PEREZ: Yes, so they -- in court last week, they said that they wanted her to structure her ruling in a way, whatever she -- I think they were anticipating that this is where this was going to go.

They asked her specifically to structure her ruling in a way that allows them to appeal it. So now it appears that she can -- they can appeal the ruling. But as Renato points out, I mean, we're -- what that could do is delay things even further.

The other thing that's interesting, Alisyn, is that we have -- if you have a special master, she may have this special master do periodic reports between now and whenever the special master is finished. That's typically how they do it. And if that's the case, then that means, for Republicans, they're going to be annoyed to have this case be reminded every few weeks, when the special master comes up with a report.

Again, she -- the judge could order that all of that stuff be kept quiet until the election. But that's kind of one of the things that could happen here in the coming weeks.

CAMEROTA: And, Renato, who decides who the special master will be? As I understand from reading, the judges review, they can both -- both sides, the DOJ and President Trump's, can submit names -- or must, I guess, submit names by Friday.

But, I mean, what if President Trump says, I want it to be Jared Kushner? I mean, who -- is the judge going to decide who gets to be the special master?

MARIOTTI: Yes, there will be a -- the idea is that both sides will stipulate and agree as to a special master. And that's usually a retired judge. And that's what we saw, for example, in the Southern District of New York in the Giuliani and the Cohen case, for example.

So that's what I would expect. If they can't come to an agreement, I could -- I imagine the judgment appoint somebody, but, like I said, what I would expect is a retired judge, somebody who is above reproach or well-respected.

CAMEROTA: So, Evan, it was interesting that one of the things that she said was: "The court agrees with the government that, at least based on the record to date, there has not been a compelling showing of callous disregard for the plaintiff's constitutional rights."

So that means Donald Trump's constitutional rights.

PEREZ: Right.

CAMEROTA: So that's interesting that the judge is siding with the DOJ on that regard.

But, as you said, I guess she was swayed more by the fact that there were some personal effects or personal papers in there.

PEREZ: Right. Right.

No, and I think that's an important point because the former president is making the point that he's being abused, Alisyn, that this has been an overreach by the Justice Department and by the FBI. And she's sort of at least pushing back on that.

[14:10:04]

But I will say the idea that she is already raising, however, is this idea that because he is a former president, that the stigma of a search, it's something that, frankly, you or I would never get that kind of benefit.

As a matter of fact, over the decades, the courts have ruled that just because the police come to your house to do a court-ordered search or a-court approved search doesn't stigmatize you in any way. You don't have any special rights that come from that.

So it's an interesting thing that she has done here, because she seems to be blaming the government for media leaks, even though most of the information has been coming from the other side. And she's also sort of saying that, because he's a former president, he was being stigmatized in a way that others wouldn't be.

CAMEROTA: OK.

Evan Perez, Renato Mariotti, thank you both for your expertise.

Meanwhile, there are two suspects still on the run at this hour after allegedly stabbing and killing 10 people. This police manhunt spans three provinces in Canada. Police say the man also injured at least 15 people on Sunday at multiple crime scenes in Saskatchewan. Most of the attacks targeted an indigenous community in a nearby village.

Authorities identified the suspect's as 31-year-old Damien Sanderson and 30-year-old Myles Sanderson. There are their pictures on your screen right now. Take a look at them. Both are described as armed and dangerous. They were last seen traveling in a black Nissan Rogue. Obviously, call 911 if you know anything about them.

CNN's Paula Newton is live in Ottawa.

What's the latest, Paula?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just received, actually, a statement from RCMP in Saskatchewan, Alisyn.

And, sadly, while there are 10 deceased, as you were saying, there are now 18, 18 people who have been injured and who are presumably still getting medical attention.

The headline here, though, is that they remain at large, and police forces now bringing as many resources as they can to bear to the situation, as you said, the alert going out to three provinces, but a lot of the search going on still in the capital of Saskatchewan, about a three-and-a-half-hour drive away from where the initial crimes occurred. And that's in Regina.

Now, I want to bring us now to the statement from -- this is the commanding officer there, Rhonda Blackmore.

And she says: "To the people of Saskatchewan and beyond, please be assured that we are using every human, investigational and technological resource we have available to locate and arrest the persons responsible for this tragedy and to ensure your safety."

They go on to say that, in fact, they should have more information on the victims in the hours ahead. Also, though, Alisyn, they have already laid charges here.

They say that, in by no shape or form are these charges exhausted, but both have now been charged with at least one count of first-degree murder. In fact, Myles Sanderson has been charged with three counts of first-degree murder. It seems that at least one of these suspects was known to police. He certainly appears in a Crime Stoppers ad going back to May, meaning he had in fact have basically violated parole.

But, right now, police are not getting any indication, Alisyn, that they have any more clues as to what happened. Remember, now, we are more than 24 hours since the last presumed sighting of them in that SUV, in that Nissan Rogue, and so far no other tips have come in.

What has also happened here, though, Alisyn, is that police say they are counting on people who know the suspects to come forward with any information they have. Again, these communities just absolutely devastated, Alisyn. It has been absolutely terrorizing and continues to be so.

I reached out to a couple of people in the community. They do not want to speak to media. They're asking for privacy. But they do say that, right now, they still fear for their safety -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, understood.

Paula Newton, thank you for the reporting.

Well, in his first rally since the FBI searched his Mar-a-Lago home, former President Trump escalated his attacks against law enforcement, calling them vicious monsters. How that message sits with voters next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:35]

CAMEROTA: President Biden is spending this Labor Day on the campaign trail in two states, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Both are pivotal in deciding whether Democrats can keep control of the Senate 64 days from now.

The president just finished speaking to a union crowd in Milwaukee. And he repeated his warnings to the nation that the fight to stop extremists is a fight for the battle of the soul of the nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not every Republican is a MAGA Republican. Not every Republican embraces that extreme ideology.

I know because I have been able to work with mainstream Republicans in my whole career. But the extreme MAGA Republicans in Congress have chosen to go backwards, full of anger, violence, hate and division.

But, together, we can and we must choose a different path, forward.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: No, I really mean it. We have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's discuss with Alice Stewart. She's our CNN political commentator and Republican strategist and former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. And Zac Petkanas is a Democratic strategist and former rapid response director for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.

Zac, I will start with you.

Is that -- President Biden more and more has been trying to draw this distinction between basically old-school Republicans that he knew and worked with and what he calls MAGA Republicans. Is he giving an off- ramp to Republicans? Why is he hitting this so hard?

[14:20:03]

ZAC PETKANAS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think it's really important what President Biden is doing.

He's distinguishing between Republican voters who are mainstream, normal, just want to get by, to have food on the table, to send their kids to school, and Republican leaders, who are increasingly showing this level of extremism. And we're seeing it at the rallies. We're seeing it by calls by state legislatures to criminalize abortion, even in the cases of rape and incest.

These are things that are Republican leaders' priorities, but not Republican voters' priorities. And distinguishing that is really key to winning the midterms.

CAMEROTA: Alice, as a Republican, do you take umbrage at him continuing to go after so-called MAGA Republicans?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He clearly sees this as a winning message, in terms of rallying and unifying the Democratic Party.

And, Alisyn, I hear him now, in the last few speeches he's made, he is very clear and very exact in his clarification of his initial statements, where he says he's not talking about all Republicans. He is talking about what he calls MAGA Republicans, and specifically people that were election deniers, that were in support of January 6, and that are frustrated with the raid at Mar-a-Lago.

And he is saying that those people are taking our country in the wrong direction and they are a threat to democracy, and referring to President Trump as an enemy of the people. Look, the distinction is not being heard by many Republicans. Many Republicans are hearing him paint all Republicans with that tone, in addition to what he said last week, saying that we are semi-fascists. And that is frustrating to many .Some people are not hearing the distinction. And they are saying that this is a president that ran on unity and optimism and hope, and he is doing nothing more than dividing the Republican Party.

He touched on that message today, on unity and optimism. But it's not being heard by many Republicans. I hear the distinction, but many are already -- the cake is baked for a lot of Republicans on this issue.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Alice, I want to stick with you for one second, because Donald Trump had a grievance-filled rally himself this past weekend.

And it was very volatile. He went after law enforcement officers, as he's been doing. He called them -- quote -- "vicious monsters." Obviously, the FBI has been facing unprecedented threat levels. Why aren't more Republicans, including, frankly, your old boss Ted Cruz, saying that that kind of rhetoric has to stop?

STEWART: I wish I knew the answer to that. And I wish more rational Republicans would be more vocal on this, because it really is, based on what we heard former President Trump say in Pennsylvania, really an alternate reality in the way he sees these key issues, when we're talking about election denials, January 6 and Mar-a-Lago raid.

President Trump classified these as the Democrats' overreach and trying to silence free speech. He looked at what happened on January 6 as imprisoning political protesters and Mar-a-Lago as Democrats' indiscriminate raid of a private home of a political enemy.

I don't see it that way at all. Many rational Republicans do not see it that way at all. And the frustrating thing is, we had Donald Trump campaigning in Pennsylvania, talking more about himself and President Biden than the two candidates he was there to campaign for.

And we have just over 60 days to the midterm elections. Any minute we're spending talking about Trump is a minute lost. We need to be talking about the top issues that are concerns of Americans. And that is cost of living, jobs, inflation, crime, as well as immigration.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STEWART: And those are the issues Republicans would be wise to focus on.

CAMEROTA: And democracy.

STEWART: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I mean, when you poll Americans, they are quite concerned about the future of democracy.

And, Zac, one thing that election deniers have done very successfully since January 6 is run for secretaries of state in various battleground states. Do you think that the Democratic Party has been taking this seriously enough and has been combating it well enough?

PETKANAS: Well, I will tell you, it's not just secretaries of state.

They're also running for local election official positions that have enormous amounts of power in this process. And I will tell you, I think that there's been a ramp-up in the level of urgency amongst Democrats, but it is certainly not commensurate with the threat. And the threat is very, very big.

I mean, we're talking about a slate of thousands of candidates that are running for office who think that, even though they lose elections, they still should get power, so that they can do the things that we were talking about before, the extremist things, criminalizing abortion in the case of rape and incest.

It is very, very concerning. And Democrats need to wake up.

CAMEROTA: And what can they do at this point? The midterms are 64 days away.

PETKANAS: Well, I mean, there -- 64 days is a lot of time in politics. And there are some great organizations that are out there that are taking this seriously.

But we need to make sure that the resources are there, so the secretary of state candidates can win. It's crucial.

[14:25:01]

CAMEROTA: Alice, very quickly, because I know you were deputy secretary of state in Arkansas.

And so how concerning is this to you?

STEWART: It's concerning in some ways that people are still thinking that election denying is a winning formula, because I don't think that it is.

I will say, having overseen elections in the state of Arkansas, there are many checks and balances up and down the ticket and up and down the level of state government and the election process.

You have the secretary of state, but also each county has people overseeing the election process and how these are tabulated. And I think -- I have full faith and confidence in the integrity of our elections. I think we need to do more to instill that.

But, again, more people need to be...

CAMEROTA: But, Alice, just so I'm clear, if the secretary of state herself in a battleground state or wherever is an election denier, can those checks and balances keep her in check?

Or is she the final arbiter of this? STEWART: Look, they can keep her in check. There are many people that

have done this as a nonpartisan career for their entire lives. And they're not going to be swayed by someone who is doing this for a political reason.

You -- this goes down to the county level. People have been doing this for many years, and being part of the election process is important to them. And they will speak up, and they will make sure that the elections are free and fair. And that's the most important thing we can do taking away is make sure people understand that they need to go vote.

The election process is free and fair, regardless if you win or lose. And we need to make sure that we vote to have people that oversee these elections that are doing it for all the right reasons. And that is for our great democracy.

CAMEROTA: We pray you're right.

Alice, Zac, thank you both very much.

PETKANAS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, an abducted Memphis teacher remains missing. One man has been charged now in her disappearance.

We have the latest on the search ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]